818 Poll

[Rockraven]

So, how should Dave now proceed with the 818S:

1. It's ready to go. A few tweaks, provision for wipers, folding soft top. Deliveries starting Spring 2013.

2. Change the front end design, plus the tweaks mentioned above. Summer 2013 deliveries.

3. Totally re-do design, taking into account the many suggestions and illustrations made here. Fall 2013.

[Rockraven]

Granted, the time-frames may be off, but obviously the more changes FFR makes, the longer the 818 will take to make it to market. I was an early critic, but I'm totally sold on the 818 as it sits.

[mhatter]

I voted for a front-end redesign with a slightly later delivery. I'm biased though, as I won't be able to source my donor until my garage opens up (currently storage while my house is being remodeled.)

[MiniVanMan]

Number 3 ain't happening. Dave has stated that already, and frankly I don't blame him. You start to get into a trying to please everyone scenario and then we'll never see the car. My opinion, there will be an aftermarket for people that want changes like that. If there's not, then not enough people want it, and therefore, I again, don't blame Dave for going with the design as is.

Number 2 might happen, but more likely in the far future (MKII) than by summer.

So, I think, realistically, number 1 is the only option. Then we start to see what the truly passionate are capable of doing with it. The final fit and finish, interiors, and aesthetics won't be addressed into it's in the hands of the public. The sooner the better. I'm not going to be in line to get one right away. I'm a ways away from getting one. Therefore, it matters little when it's released, but the longer between when it's first released and when I get mine, the more that will be out there that I can judge, and apply to my own goals.

[Rockraven]

Number 3 ain't happening. Dave has stated that already, and frankly I don't blame him. You start to get into a trying to please everyone scenario and then we'll never see the car. My opinion, there will be an aftermarket for people that want changes like that. If there's not, then not enough people want it, and therefore, I again, don't blame Dave for going with the design as is.

Number 2 might happen, but more likely in the far future (MKII) than by summer.

So, I think, realistically, number 1 is the only option. Then we start to see what the truly passionate are capable of doing with it. The final fit and finish, interiors, and aesthetics won't be addressed into it's in the hands of the public. The sooner the better. I'm not going to be in line to get one right away. I'm a ways away from getting one. Therefore, it matters little when it's released, but the longer between when it's first released and when I get mine, the more that will be out there that I can judge, and apply to my own goals.

I hope you're right, but Dave says he's unhappy with it... can't quite put his finger on it. I think we need to reassure him that, with a few tweaks (wipers, soft top, etc) it's ready to go.

[Silvertop]

FFR should make the minor tweaks as defined above, plus any other it identifies, and let 'er fly in June.

[Xusia]

When Dave said he wasn't completely happy with it, the impression I got was it was minor stuff. If I'm wrong, and he's also not happy with something major, like say the front end, I do still think he could (and should) launch it in it's current shape (fixing known stuff like wipers, rear wheel centering, etc.) and take care of those major issues with the Mk II.

That said, I can't serious imagine anything major changing. With a stated volume of 1 unit per week, he's got more than a year's worth of pre-orders...

[DBryden]

I voted for the re-designed front end + tweaks.

I just recently stumbled across this car (perfect timing, was sizing up to build an LS_ Miata), and I've decided that this may be the better route for me. I was actually just talking to a friend today and the only thing that really makes me curious is the front end of the car. It just reminds me too much of a teenager that just bought his first eBay body kit.

The car is surrounded by all of these slick and beautiful curves and round lines, and when you move around to the front you see an the angle of the hood cut almost vertically with a few square holes in the middle of it. I like the idea of the cutout in the middle (especially with the splitter shown in the SEMA pics)...but it's too flat faced and rushed.

My advice (for what it's worth lol...) is to take a look at the Lotus Exige 260 S (http://www.theprodigalguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2010_lotus_exige_s_image_001.jpg) / Porsche GT3 RS / Lexus LFA ...smooth the bumper out (top to bottom, not divets/weird bumper things), and give it a nice smiley ****-eating grin :) cliche, maybe...but it would look pretty awesome.

Right now, it makes me think the front end of a Gumpert Apollo had a weird looking child and slapped it on the front an otherwise flawless design.

[timmy318]

Yea, Jim & Dave both stated that no redesigning was going to take place. Just little things here and there. Probably whenever they actually start to roll the chassis out he'll have about 2 years worth in preorders!

[PhyrraM]

........ With a stated volume of 1 unit per week,.........

I missed that. Is that your guess or was that posted somewhere?

[Xusia]

Nope, no guess. I believe it was in one of his posts on either Sunday or Monday.

[Rockraven]

1 unit/week ain't gonna cut it. Even one per day, or 365 per year, won't keep up with demand. We're already over 50 units with forum pre-orders... Lord knows how many from SEMA.

[PhyrraM]

Interesting. Maybe he was refering to intial production?

If total production was only to be 52ish cars per year, then the $9900 price point is an odd choice as the market would certainly bear much more at those volumes.

The only reason to push for a low price is to move many more units than they currently do on the other product lines.

[AZPete]

Ship ASAP . . . As Is!
I had no wipers and no top on my FFR Mk3 Roadster and it was fine for 9,000 miles until I sold it to start another project.
Based on my experience, I have complete confidence in Dave, Jim and anyone else at FFR for any changes.
Pete

[Rockraven]

FFR is gonna need more peoples. Maybe I should send a resume. I just retired from the Canadian Airforce with 23 years aeronautical refinishing experience. :-)

[timmy318]

Interesting. Maybe he was refering to intial production?

If total production was only to be 52ish cars per year, then the $9900 price point is an odd choice as the market would certainly bear much more at those volumes.

The only reason to push for a low price is to move many more units than they currently do on the other product lines.

Well, it's only for when they start shipping them out. I'm sure Dave & FFR will trim it down a bit after they've got things rolling out there in Wareham! Also AZPete, wipers are required in some states and are a nice thing to have when a lot of people plan on using this as a daily driver! Besides, FFR said that they aren't "planning" on shipping the 818 out until Juneish 2013 so adding wipers isn't going to push the production date back....

[Darkpiggy's dad]

818 SEMA Update With Pics, Page 34, entry #1350. Dave states that perhaps one chassis per week for the first 3-6 months.

[flynntuna]

Just like everyone I'm chomping at the bit, but I have to wait a couple years to save up. It's killing me. Sitting on the sidelines won't be easy.

[Highway Star]

Some things will never end. Tweaking the design of the car is one of those things. There comes a point where you have to say this is it and start producing.

There are still things that Dave has said need to be addressed before he can ship. I vote let him get the functional things right and start producing...and then make the running mechanical changes and updates that will undoubtedly fill up the first year of production...and after he achieves some sort of steady state, look at redesign.

I will just ask that Dave keeps the panel interface designs uniform so we can retrofit individual body panels without a bunch of fitment problems.

[AZPete]

Timmy, I know wipers are required in some states but FFR has sold over 7,000 roadster kits without wipers included. FFR offers an optional wiper kit that some have bought and installed and other guys have attached temporary wipers that get okayed by the inspectors in some states. Among roadster drivers it's common knowledge to use RainX and carry a cloth to wipe the inside of the windshield which gets lots of water from the backdraft of a topless car. And, another common recommendation is to drill a few holes in the corners of the footbox floors so if caught in a deluge the water will drain out. It's a tough group but the message is: Where there's a will, there's a way. They don't all live in sunny AZ.

The roadster has a cowl - a stable body panel in front of the windshield that can be used to mount wipers. The 818 has no cowl and the hood comes up to the windshield so I guess the only choice is a wiper mounted at the top of the windshield - either clamped on or permanent. If there's enough demand somebody will invent and sell a nice top-mount wiper. How will guys feel about drilling a few drain holes in the floor?
Pete

[spaceywilly]

I think they should start shipping them ASAP, then over time refine and improve the design. As you can see in the pre-order thread there is already immense interest in the current design as shown at SEMA, so there's no reason to change anything from that. Once the first generation is out there, they can redo the body design and incorporate any lessons learned from the initial model into the next one, and I can buy that one :)

[Jeff F]

Spoke to Jim Tuesday at SEMA. There are many small tweaks to make and final molds afterwards. He mentioned that they may have to make the engine cover a two piece unit as well for easy maintenance. The back opening easily and the front part more permanently attached. If you notice on the R version, there is no way to open the rear hatch as the carbon fiber covering the rear roll bars are permantly attached. I think there will be minor body changes for things like the wipers and engine cover.

[Xusia]

...so there's no reason to change anything from that.

As Jeff F states, there are actually many things that need addressing. We aren't talking about just cosmetic or inconsequential stuff.