818ST for 818 Targa Photo Edits

[FFR-ADV]

Kicking off a thread to put some photo edits of the 818S as a Targa.

This first edit is a quick one based on a recent released 818S image.

The 818 has a single panel which covers the engine. The side vents can grab more air for the intercooler.

818S:
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818ST:
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Cheers!

[WonderDude]

I like it! :)

[timmy318]

Don't like it exactly like that but something in that area would really interest me!

[Silvertop]

I'm for it!:)

[VD2021]

I was thinking of how I would redo that area to just above the roll bar, when I saw the picture. Nice.

[timmy318]

I was thinking of how I would redo that area to just above the roll bar, when I saw the picture. Nice.

Yea, I don't like how the rol bar sorta just sticks on out there. Gonna have to find something to fill that space up

[David Hodgkins]

Here's an image I got today. Maybe you guys can use it; it's a straight-on side shot:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12812&d=1351657446

:)

[David Hodgkins]

Looking at it again, I could have moved the center of the shot back just a bit. I'll try again tomorrow.

:)

[Benji]

What time do you reckon you'll be there Dave, would be nice to meet you.

[PhyrraM]

A targa would be ineresting. The only thing I really don't like about the current styling is the 'oh-so-here-today-gone-tomorrow-fad' headrest humps.

[FFR-ADV]

Thank you for the straight side view picture to work with David,

My thinking on the first version of the Targa is for an inner black liner similar to the dash upper cover to slide over the roll bar from the top also covering the roll bar braces. This defines the inner passenger space. A second body colored cover would hinge down from the back, forming the side air scoops. The inner liner guides the captured air over the TMIC. The window could hinge up, similar to the GTM providing access and view of the pretty Boxer engine, and top engine access for regular minor maintenance. A lightweight solid Targa Panel could be used and a soft Targa top that could be rolled up "just in case of rain." if you leave the hard Targa Top home. The upward curving shape near the seat "humps" could be replaced or reshaped since they are part of the panel that would be replaced. Ideally the Targa could be a post build upgrade if it is not ready by build time.

A second version of this could carry a T-bar forward to the windshield, and use removable gull wing style T-Top panels for easier entrance and exit.

Thank you for the nice comments. This is just the start of a work in progress.

Cheers!

[dbjr63]

how about a hard top with a air intake on the roof that runs down between the two humps?

something like the GTM offers but keep the two humps in the back.

[Nuul]

how about a hard top with a air intake on the roof that runs down between the two humps?

something like the GTM offers but keep the two humps in the back.


Hmmm, I think I see what you're getting at. Sort of like Hugo did with his GTM.

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[mug23]

Hmmm, I think I see what you're getting at. Sort of like Hugo did with his GTM.

12843

Yep, that's the version of the 818 that I'm waiting for. A 818R coupe with the air intake on the roof. I was never a fan of any convertibles or open top cars. With the roof over my head, I just feel much safer.

[dbjr63]

Yep, that's the version of the 818 that I'm waiting for. A 818R coupe with the air intake on the roof. I was never a fan of any convertibles or open top cars. With the roof over my head, I just feel much safer.

agree 100%. i am waiting for the couple with roll up windows. i might even wait for the Ford EcoBoost. nothing better than the 2.0L turbo with 262HP and great gas milage. i am not a fan of the boxer engine.

i also would not mind to see the side duct from the GTM add to the 818

[Vman7]

Thank you for the straight side view picture to work with David,

My thinking on the first version of the Targa is for an inner black liner similar to the dash upper cover to slide over the roll bar from the top also covering the roll bar braces. This defines the inner passenger space. A second body colored cover would hinge down from the back, forming the side air scoops. The inner liner guides the captured air over the TMIC. The window could hinge up, similar to the GTM providing access and view of the pretty Boxer engine, and top engine access for regular minor maintenance. A lightweight solid Targa Panel could be used and a soft Targa top that could be rolled up "just in case of rain." if you leave the hard Targa Top home. The upward curving shape near the seat "humps" could be replaced or reshaped since they are part of the panel that would be replaced. Ideally the Targa could be a post build upgrade if it is not ready by build time.

A second version of this could carry a T-bar forward to the windshield, and use removable gull wing style T-Top panels for easier entrance and exit.

Thank you for the nice comments. This is just the start of a work in progress.

Cheers!

I see you are starting already......lol, I am going to wait a bit, probably until after SEMA and see what pictures come up etc.

I like the gullwing idea, I was thinking of something like a upper gullwing and keeping the regular door.

From what I have seen so far the seats sit a lot lower then before, which is nice, means the top won't be as high.

David

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Vman,

Glad to see you working this! I was thinking of upper gullwing only like was done aftermarket for the Elise.

12853

Here is my inspiration:

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Cheers!

[Vman7]

Hi Vman,

Glad to see you working this! I was thinking of upper gullwing only like was done aftermarket for the Elise.

12853

Here is my inspiration:

12854

Cheers!

I see we are on the same page.....lol

The other way I was thinking was a 2 piece targa top, that way you would still have one opening without the t bar and would be easy to store.

[FFR-ADV]

Here is my other inspiration.;)

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Thanks Vman,

Steve

[Canadian818]

I'm convinced that there will be a hard top that incorporates into the rear deck. Just look at where the panels are split. If Dave's as smart as I think he is, and hope he is, he'll be able to pull off a coupe by simply (ignoring how difficult this all is) replacing the top back panel. Theres no reason to change anything else IMHO. I wasn't expecting a soft top to cost 3k, so my plan is to by it as is and swap to a hardtop/coupe once one is released.

[PhyrraM]

...............be able to pull off a coupe by simply ....replacing the top back panel. Theres no reason to change anything else ........

The interface between the (future) door window, the rear cover, and the rear quarter panel makes a simple panel replacement unlikely. Unless, of course, the goal is a coupe with no side windows.

[narkosys]

Yep, that's the version of the 818 that I'm waiting for. A 818R coupe with the air intake on the roof. I was never a fan of any convertibles or open top cars. With the roof over my head, I just feel much safer.

the GTM roof scoup is an option that you purchase separately and have to install yourself (which requires cutting a hole at the back of the roof as well as fibreglass work).

P

[metalmaker12]

like the roadster look best so far, no design but FFR has sold me yet

[ScottKoschwitz]

The December issue of Grassroots Motorsports has a picture of an 818 model with a targa top. I don't know how old the model is or if it's still in development, but I can try to scan and post it later.

[FFR-ADV]

Here is another 818 Targa version. (Thanks for the nice picture from SEMA to work with Dave)

12856

The windshield is swept low. This really shows up when a Targa top is on.

Steve

[narkosys]

FFR-ADV: I would buy that in a heartbeat! Very well done!

P

[timmy318]

Here is another 818 Targa version. (Thanks for the nice picture from SEMA to work with Dave)

12856

The windshield is swept low. This really shows up when a Targa top is on.

Steve

Now that is awesome! If FFR had that as an option I would be willing to drop $3-5K on it! Well, $3-5K above the standard 818-S they have now.....

[Xusia]

12857I'm not really very good at this sort of thing, but I wanted to get in on the fun. Here is my not-so-good attempt at taking VMAN7's targa and putting it on an actual photo of the 818S. Conceptually, I like the look.

[Darkpiggy's dad]

Cool stuff. Can anyone follow the lines of the rear vent in their design? Jim already matched his door line to his vent line and pretty closely to the line where the rear panels meet. I can draw but I can't post my work. I just have an iPad here.

[riptide motorsport]

that last one definitly looks nice, has a Veyron look to it.

[ScottKoschwitz]

Here's what was published in Grassroots Motorsports. Not too far off the ones above.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi ScottKoschwitz,

I think that is Xabier's very nice design. He was one of the top winning designs in the original Factory Five 818 design contest. There are photos of the scale model somewhere in this forum.

Here is a link to the 818 Design Contest Winners pictures

http://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/

Steve

[ScottKoschwitz]

Now that I look at it again, I think you're right. Sorry, I figured since it was in the latest issue, it was something more recent.

[FFR-ADV]

No worries ScottKoschwitz,

Xabier is a great designer with a bright future!

I think we will be seeing some very interesting work from Vman in the near future as well!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6663-Current-818-(May-2012)-Coupe-Add-Ons

Steve

[David Hodgkins]

Here's a new pic from a slightly different perspective for you guys to look at:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12872&d=1351732635

:)

[flynntuna]

Trick or Treat, 8-1-8, Factory Five can't be beat.

[FFR-ADV]

Thank you David,

Can you arrange for a picture like this with you in the 818S driver's seat? This would give a sanity check on roof height? LOL

Cheers!

Steve

[NonProfit]

2012 Ferrari 458 Spider - Folding Top
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Seriously doubt this is even possible, but...

[timmy318]

2012 Ferrari 458 Spider - Folding Top
12951
Seriously doubt this is even possible, but...

I'm going to try and build my own version of this if at all possible. I always liked how when someone pulls up and just pushes a button and the top folds up/down. Though, after seeing the way the 818 is designed I can't see how a power retraceable hardtop could be feasible, not saying it couldn't be done, but I don't wanna invest $15K on a power retractable hard top when I could just get a soft top or design a friggin removable hardtop for a whole lot less. But, IF someone designs something like this I would gladly spend around $5K or so..... Well, just my 2¢ thrown in here......

[NonProfit]

But, IF someone designs something like this

Now that I think about it, the roll bar has supports under the humps which would prevent the top from folding like this. So, no-go on the 818. It sure it nifty, though.

[Bkafe]

How about a cross bar similar to the boxster spyder and a snap on lexan window.

[bromikl]

You should put a mannequin in the driver's seat. To me, it looks like there wouldn't be much head clearance.

12955

[FFR-ADV]

I was also concerned with head clearance in my second Targa edit, so I reshaped it. Once we have a similar photo of the 818S with someone (perhaps David Hodgkins, or maybe Dave Smith) sitting in a straight on side shot, we will have some basis for comparison. Till then here is my latest effort. I think the roof looks a little less chopped in this version.

12962

Also note that the curved roof and Targa pillars give opportunity for a curved roll back top which slides between the pillars. Interesting option, but I still prefer the gull-wing Targa top for easier entrance and exit from the 818.

Steve

[WonderDude]

I was a also concerned with head clearance in my second Targa edit, so I reshaped it. Once we have a similar photo of the 818S with someone (perhaps David Hodgkins, or maybe Dave Smith) sitting in a straight on side shot, we will have some basis for comparison. Till then here is my latest effort. I think the roof looks a little less chopped in this version.

12962

Also note that the curved roof and Targa pillars give opportunity for a curved roll back top which slides between the pillars. Interesting option, but I still prefer the gull-wing Targa top for easier entrance and exit from the 818.

Steve

That looks SWEET! :D

[cyderus]

that looks perfect for me. im gonna wait to hear if they do something like this before i put in my order. nice work

[Vman7]

I was also concerned with head clearance in my second Targa edit, so I reshaped it. Once we have a similar photo of the 818S with someone (perhaps David Hodgkins, or maybe Dave Smith) sitting in a straight on side shot, we will have some basis for comparison. Till then here is my latest effort. I think the roof looks a little less chopped in this version.

12962

Also note that the curved roof and Targa pillars give opportunity for a curved roll back top which slides between the pillars. Interesting option, but I still prefer the gull-wing Targa top for easier entrance and exit from the 818.

Steve

The roll back top, might be a little tricky, mech. wise. I still like the idea of an upper gullwing idea.

The more I see this car in red the more I want to paint it, just not my color of red, I prefer a more deep burgundy red myself.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Vman,

I agree that making a roll back that hangs together at the speeds this car can operate at would be tricky. The upper gullwing is my favorite!

With regard to color, I hope that one of the no-paint colors will be Subaru Rally Blue like the 818R. For some reason it just makes me smile. For some reason the red 818S reminds me of Magnum-PI's pretty red Targa. Also for some unknown reason fire engine red tends to attract more undesirable law enforcement attention than other colors...

Looking forward to seeing your Coupe and Targa edits!

Steve

[Vman7]

Hi Vman,

I agree that making a roll back that hangs together at the speeds this car can operate at would be tricky. The upper gullwing is my favorite!

With regard to color, I hope that one of the no-paint colors will be Subaru Rally Blue like the 818R. For some reason it just makes me smile. For some reason the red 818S reminds me of Magnum-PI's pretty red Targa. Also for some unknown reason fire engine red tends to attract more undesirable law enforcement attention than other colors...

Looking forward to seeing your Coupe and Targa edits!

Steve

Same here on the 818R blue color, looks great. Most times I don't really like a so called "royal blue" color on sports cars. But this one looks good, actually a little darker then royal blue though. whites, silvers, grays, some silver blue, some yellows, some orange, and dark colors always look good on sports cars,....forget the lime green or other neon colors, it makes sports cars look cheap to me.........yeah pimp my ride....rofl.

[flynntuna]

Yea unfortunatly bright colors attract CHP like flies to honey, that and 20mph over speed limit. LOL I've always liked the targa idea, like the Ferrari Dino or Porsche 914. How about a sliding canopy like a fighter plane?

[GUNS]

I think the optional soft top for the ultima GTR can am is nice, and I'm a guy that hates soft tops.
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[jlahl3160]

Hi,

I am new to the forum... If I may add my 2 cents..

I also would like a targa top, rag top, hard top 818 in that order.

I have sketched up a version of the targa trying to represent what I see as an option that could be a bolt on version not too different than what is seen in the Lotus. I picture a T top Targa, attached to the windshield... extending toward the roll bar and attach to the area just behind same. For those that want to remove the line made by the joint, only a smallamount of body work would be necessary.

For the rag top I see the Solstice as a good starting point. .. same for the hard top.. (last choice).

John

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[FFR-ADV]

Hi jlahl3160,

Welcome to the forum!

[flytosail]

Hi Vman,

I agree that making a roll back that hangs together at the speeds this car can operate at would be tricky. The upper gullwing is my favorite!

With regard to color, I hope that one of the no-paint colors will be Subaru Rally Blue like the 818R. For some reason it just makes me smile. For some reason the red 818S reminds me of Magnum-PI's pretty red Targa. Also for some unknown reason fire engine red tends to attract more undesirable law enforcement attention than other colors...

Looking forward to seeing your Coupe and Targa edits!

Steve


What is call "arrest red", Alex.

[narkosys]

I was planing of painting my GTM (once I build it) this shade (http://www.planetcolor.com/color/detail.php?colorPartNumber=PCS12) of blue. i think the 818 will look secksay in this colour.

P

[FFR-ADV]

Thank you for the kind feedback!

I was thinking the rear deck (between the targa pillars) could look like Xabier's 1/4 scale model developed by RI school of design. Lots of ventilation, much like the Elise in jlahl3160 post.

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From the side profile it will still be uniquely Factory Five:

13045

Gull Wing Targa top still in my sights as seen on this Factory Five note that there is an option to support the side window on the gull wing door:

13046

Cheers!

[VD2021]

Thank you for the kind feedback!

I was thinking the rear deck (between the targa pillars) could look like Xabier's 1/4 scale model developed by RI school of design. Lots of ventilation, much like the Elise in jlahl3160 post.

13044

From the side profile it will still be uniquely Factory Five:

13045


Cheers!

I really like this as it was exactly what I have in mind. You'd definitely have to scrap the stock seats and go with a GTM or racing seat that puts your bottom on the deck. With the 818's possible roof line being only inches (just an estimate) inches taller than the GTM's headroom is going to be an issue. Unless you're 5'7".

[jlahl3160]

I really like it as well. I like the gull wing as a choice., or two removable panels that could be stored in vehicle. If possible, I would like roll up windows though, not windows in the gull wing.

My thinking is that the easiest place to apply a targa option (bolt on), is just outside the raised areas behind the driver and passenger side, and inside the top surface vents, where the surface is flatter. See picture that Mechie3 added yesterday .. copied in small scale below (green line is propost attachment location). This allows for easier application with minimal changes necessary, and is just outside shoulder area.

If FFR would be replacing the whole top panel, then the above bolt on is not necessary, but I can see FFR adding the bolt on as an option getting it quickly to market and with lower tooling cost – faster ROI.

John

13070

[FFR-ADV]

I really like it as well. I like the gull wing as a choice., or two removable panels that could be stored in vehicle. If possible, I would like roll up windows though, not windows in the gull wing.
13070

Hi John,

Thank you for your kindness, I agree, roll up or power windows are preferable as is A/C and defroster. Good news is that the removable hard top with power side windows is a $2500 option on the FFR 33. A/C and defroster is an option on most FFRs. Jim indicated that the space under the dash is challenging on the 818. I will readily give up the space under the front hood if thats what is required to get defroster, heat and A/C. Mirrors will also need to be relocated from the windshield mount to be able to open the door with windows, but that is a minor detail in my mind.

I will not hesitate to put Kirkey, GTM or other racing seats in such a Targa. I might do that anyway just because...

I personally prefer a replacement panel which deletes the seat humps. This will give greater design freedom. I do not believe tooling for the paintless panels is done yet as the protoypes were molded fiberglass which could be introduced as gelcoat panel, but I do not think that is FFRs prefered path. A bolt on like you suggest might be simpler to provide thru a FFR vendor. if the vendor is a trusted FFR vendor then since this car was developed using SolidWorks, design and tooling could be turned around quickly. There are many benefits to FFR's latest design and fabrication tools.

The next year is going to be exciting!

Steve

[Vman7]

Some interesting posts here, gets you thinking.....

[timmy318]

Some interesting posts here, gets you thinking.....

about.............

[Vman7]

about.............

lol.........all kinds of stuff

[narkosys]

looking at the photo gallery it seems to me that only the top rear panel needs to be replaced to turn it into a coupe/targa. that should make tooling much simpler.

hopefully I was looking at the shot right. those who has seen the 818 in person would have a better idea of where the panels join together.

P

[Kalstar]

You would be correct. One panel.

[FFR-ADV]

Does anyone have a straight on rear photo of the 818S (from as far back as possible to keep front vs rear scale / vanishing point as far in the distance as possible)?

Does anyone have straight on side shots of both the 818S and 818R with a tall person to judge head clearance in Subaru seats (818S) and Kirkey seats (818R)?

Also does anyone have an elevated straight on picture (camera held high over ones head) of the whole 818 including the rear deck would be useful?

These would be helpful to photo editing what a Targa (Gull Wing Targa) or removeable top might look like and other subtle modifications to the wonderful canvas the talented team at Factory Five has provided for us to work with.

Thanks for the great ideas from everyone, both here and in other Factory Five Forum threads.

Cheers!

[FFR-ADV]

12857I'm not really very good at this sort of thing, but I wanted to get in on the fun. Here is my not-so-good attempt at taking VMAN7's targa and putting it on an actual photo of the 818S. Conceptually, I like the look.

Hi Xusia,

You are better at this than you let on. I like the way the swept back lines of your Targa Pillars followed door line complimenting the rear air intake. I have created a version based on your concept. Here is an adapatation of my concept based on yours which leaves the gas filler in the Targa Pillar..

13105

Cheers!

Vman, Please hurry back...

[RM1SepEx]

looking at the photo gallery it seems to me that only the top rear panel needs to be replaced to turn it into a coupe/targa. that should make tooling much simpler.

hopefully I was looking at the shot right. those who has seen the 818 in person would have a better idea of where the panels join together.

P

The seam runs at the top of the fender... so the rear engine cover is the only panel that would need to be changed

make it a targa with a single panel. Provide a drip edge around the back and one along the windshield's upper edge

roll up a soft top with spring loaded support tubes sewn in or use a two piece hard targa panel that stows somewhere

zip in vinyl windows complete a low cost weather resistant top!

[FFR-ADV]

I have created a version of my last Targa edit, only with Vman style air intakes for the intercooler.

13106

I agree that only one panel in the 818S needs to be replaced to create a Targa. Many great options including: Soft Targa, Hard Targa (solid colored, translucent, tinted), T-Bar carried to Windshield, T-Bar supporting Gull-Wing Style Panels...

Cheers!

[RM1SepEx]

very nice concept

[Vman7]

13105



I have created a version of my last Targa edit, only with Vman style air intakes for the intercooler.

13106

I agree that only one panel in the 818S needs to be replaced to create a Targa. Many great options including: Soft Targa, Hard Targa (solid colored, translucent, tinted), T-Bar carried to Windshield, T-Bar supporting Gull-Wing Style Panels...

Cheers!

After looking at both of these mockups, I think the one without the vent works better, providing the roof height is close.

The reason I went with the side upper vent was because the roof was much higher do to the orig drawings etc. that FFR had, I figured it out to be roughly 46" high. Where as now the rollbar height seams to be at least an 1.5" lower, which is a lot believe it or not, so that make a dramatic change in looks. The reason for the side vent up there was to draw away attention to the height of that side area which made the car look top heavy, if that makes any sense.

I have a mock-up somewhere on this site of one of my first side design on the Vantage, I'll have to dig it up...lol

Also the other reason for slanting the pillar back was for future side window, if slant it forward, which still looks ok, if the bottom of the pillar is behind the door seam, then you have to put a break of some kind between the pillar at the door seam for a side window to work. If you bring the forward slanted pillar to the door seam, then too much of the pillar at the top goes into the door area, which takes away some site and makes it hard to get into the car.

Not sure if that all makes sense...lol

I say stick with one of the last two mock ups :)

Try changing the targa top to the same color as the car and you will get an idea of the coupe shape.

David

[Vman7]

I am looking for a other pic right now.....lol

Another then that has been bugging me, is the height of the windshield, hard to tell from the pictures with out a person in the car. Not sure if those headrests on those seats are higher then some ones head or not, that's why I like going of the rollbar, since you know that is higher.

Hear is where a problem may come in. In order to get the right height of the roof you need somewhere of 1.5' to say no more then 3" (a lot) of head clearance, depending on how tall someone is. Now if that brings the rear part of the roof height higher then the windshield height, then we have a problem, it's ok for a coupe, but for a targa, the rear roof height sould be no higher then the windshield height, other wise you are grabbing a lot of air, and better have ear muff for the sound.....lol, plus it causes a lot of drag.

Now I hope that made sense.......even are started to get confused......lol

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

Thank you for your kind, constructive and detailed assessment.

BTW I really like what you are doing with the rear of the 818. Who knows, maybe some of these ideas in the forum might find their way into the first 818S production, and if not then if they become available down the road we could switch out the panels (Swatch upgrades).

Steve

[Vman7]

Hi David,

Thank you for your kind, constructive and detailed assessment.

BTW I really like what you are doing with the rear of the 818. Who knows, maybe some of these ideas in the forum might find their way into the first 818S production, and if not then if they become available down the road we could switch out the panels (Swatch upgrades).

Steve

Your Welcome Steve :)

That would be nice on some of the ideas, but highly doubtful. The idea I had and a few others was being able to swap out panels etc. like you said. Dave Smith alluded to it somewhat, but not much, that could be a possiblity in the future.

My Idea is a little more refined, with modules, starting with a basic panel say the rear one, then you pick the modules you want, ie taillights vents etc., which could also be done for the front, rear deck (for changing to coupe/targa). I like to call it MCS (Modular Component System)

[Vman7]

Steve here is that pic I was talking about, one of the first Vantage side designs, if you notice the seats are fwd of the rear pillar. That vert. curved line that come off the door into rear was to break up the height of the slope area of the coupe.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5953&d=1320903827

[Xusia]

FFR-ADV, Thanks. My reason for the slant at the angle I had was to accommodate a roll up window. The shape of door means the window would have to roll down at an angle, so made the top so it could work.

Overall I like your work and rendering, but I'm not a fan of the side window. To me it looks out of place, and I don't think it's necessary for visibility or safety. Just my humble opinion.

[Vman7]

FFR-ADV, Thanks. My reason for the slant at the angle I had was to accommodate a roll up window. The shape of door means the window would have to roll down at an angle, so made the top so it could work.

Overall I like your work and rendering, but I'm not a fan of the side window. To me it looks out of place, and I don't think it's necessary for visibility or safety. Just my humble opinion.

Yeppers!!

FFR-ADV and Xusia, just needs to be tweaked a bit, overall the last two that you posted Steve work very well, just keep tweaking it here and there and it should work out well :)

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

I believe that Dave Smith's first priority is going to be to get the 818 into production at a cost where he maintains a profit margin. Many of these options will have to wait for this top priority to get the 818 into production with quality in control by design and process both within Factory Five Racing and with their suppliers.

The modularity of the 818 design lends itself to the MCS system. It is very fitting that such a design is based on a Subaru WRX when you consider how many third party upgrades are available. Those third parties with good relationships sometimes get early (pre release) information so they can develop in tandem. With accurate SolidWorks CAD data, a trusted vendor could have molds which will mate up to the body, chassis hard points and not interfere with the engine or other mechanicals. The response of a large number of people who want a 818 sooner than later is going to drive Factory Five's efforts to finish the design and get it into production. Scale of this market and willingness of 818 builders to pay for upgrades could attract vendors to invest in such projects. These vendors will have the tools to design and produce such quality upgrade parts to either sell under license from FFR (shared profit?) or to sell thru Factory Five exclusively.

I am all for the MCS concept. 2013 will be very exciting! :D

Steve

[Vman7]

Hi David,

I believe that Dave Smith's first priority is going to be to get the 818 into production at a cost where he maintains a profit margin. Many of these options will have to wait for this top priority to get the 818 into production with quality in control by design and process both within Factory Five Racing and with their suppliers.

The modularity of the 818 design lends itself to the MCS system. It is very fitting that such a design is based on a Subaru WRX when you consider how many third party upgrades are available. Those third parties with good relationships sometimes get early (pre release) information so they can develop in tandem. With accurate SolidWorks CAD data, a trusted vendor could have molds which will mate up to the body, chassis hard points and not interfere with the engine or other mechanicals. The response of a large number of people who want a 818 sooner than later is going to drive Factory Five's efforts to finish the design and get it into production. Scale of this market and willingness of 818 builders to pay for upgrades could attract vendors to invest in such projects. These vendors will have the tools to design and produce such quality upgrade parts to either sell under license from FFR (shared profit?) or to sell thru Factory Five exclusively.

I am all for the MCS concept. 2013 will be very exciting! :D

Steve

Very well said, couldn't have said it better myself:)

[FFR-ADV]

FFR-ADV, Thanks. My reason for the slant at the angle I had was to accommodate a roll up window. The shape of door means the window would have to roll down at an angle, so made the top so it could work.

Overall I like your work and rendering, but I'm not a fan of the side window. To me it looks out of place, and I don't think it's necessary for visibility or safety. Just my humble opinion.

Hi Vman and Xusia,

Thank you for your kind and constructive assessments. I added the rear window to create a visual line which followed the line of the door and then filled in with a tinted rear window to create a rear edge for the door window. The solid panel could be carried to the edge of the door window and colored to maintain the visual line, or a somked window could be applied (cuttout or not) similar to the GTM rear side window. I have added a no-moving wind wing to the concept to create an angle for the side window to fully decend into the door. We should definitly work this concept together! A rope of many strands...

Steve

13116

[Vman7]

Steve, hmm........doesn't really look right with the side back window.

Try this, first take the targa top and change it to the color of the car, tha will help with getting the lines to flow right, that way you will get an overall feel for your design, always easier to go back and do the cutout for the Targa. Also try bringing the pillar line fwd to the doorline, you have the room, then is no need for a side back window.

David

[FFR-ADV]

Steve, hmm........doesn't really look right with the side back window.

Try this, first take the targa top and change it to the color of the car, tha will help with getting the lines to flow right, that way you will get an overall feel for your design, always easier to go back and do the cutout for the Targa. Also try bringing the pillar line fwd to the doorline, you have the room, then is no need for a side back window.

David

David,

I agree with you, something is off. I will try out what you are suggesting (might be a few days though, work pays for my 818 upgrades...). Thanks again for the constructive feedback.

Steve

[RM1SepEx]

I really like the curve of the roofline, but the door/window isn't quite right...
You guys are on the right track tho I think!

I've been searching existing mid engined sports car for referance...

Anyone else think that the steering wheel and seat seem to be quite far back vs the door opening? That's why the seats are so far back relative to the door opening and a simple body line going up don't seem to work.

[Xusia]

Yes, I think that as well. In looking at the overall design, however, I think I know why that is: The frame has some pieces right in front of the side of the seat. This seems like a good arrangement for safety, so I applaud them for that.

[FFR-ADV]

Here is a quick Coupe Top based on some of the earlier edits which replaces one panel in the 818S. I colored some of the side black (not a window, could be separate colored panels) to balance the front to back visually. This could also be turned into some of the Targa / Gull Wing Tops we have discussed in this thread.

13262

Steve

[mug23]

^^^ Now, that look beautiful. My money will be on this model.

[mrvwcastner]

I don't have photoshop & doubt I could do it in Paint, but anyone want to show me an 818R w/o wing in black or white? I'm still undecided.

[Benji]

I think the biggest obstacle is the fact that the driver's head is behind or at the door line, looking at my Miata (and it's hard top) my head is in front of that door line as it is on a few other similar cars.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Mug23

Thanks for the kind words.

Hi mrvwcastner,

I also don't have photoshop. I have been using GIMP which is a FREE full featured MS Windows based program which I am still learning. There are many youtube "how to" videos including even mods to cars. Have some fun with it.

Cheers!

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Benji,

The door line is just forward of the WRX headrests which would limit over the shoulder look backs, but one could cut out a window opening and then apply a dark smoked window over it similar to the GTM for a similar effect. Plenty of options...

Cheers!

[Benji]

Yeah, that would work but I'm thinking having that line right next to your side vision will be quite distracting. If you have short little legs like me you might be able to get away with just moving the seat forwards :D

[Sultan]

here is a quick coupe top based on some of the earlier edits which replaces one panel in the 818s. I colored some of the side black (not a window, could be separate colored panels) to balance the front to back visually. This could also be turned into some of the targa / gull wing tops we have discussed in this thread.

13262

steve


wowowowowowowowowwww!!!!

[Xusia]

I'm loving the lines! I've been studying some other targas and what I think looks best is if most of the black area on your mock up is a window. Just the part closest to the door is a solid piece to form frame and provide a good seal for the window. Ferrari does this quite a bit, and I think it looks really good - functional too.

[wleehendrick]

Here is a quick Coupe Top based on some of the earlier edits which replaces one panel in the 818S. I colored some of the side black (not a window, could be separate colored panels) to balance the front to back visually

Looks good, but I thought the rear visibility in my Z was bad! Can you 'blind spot'? ;)

[FFR-ADV]

I am also concerned about side visability. Here is an Coupe/ Targa edit which brings the front door window back at an angle complimenting the door and rear air intake.

13274

Steve

[timmy318]

I am also concerned about side visability. Here is an Coupe/ Targa edit which brings the front door window back at an angle complimenting the door and rear air intake.

13274

Steve

The problem I see in that is how would you be able to fit a window in good.....

[timmy318]

The problem I see in that is how would you be able to fit a window in good.....

Edit: Never mind..... :p

[narkosys]

they can always design the hard/targa top to fit the GTM side windows. save some expense that way.

P

[Vman7]

Steve, that looks much better with the pillar leaning rearward. Have you tried it with the black area in the same color as the car?

Is it me or does the car look really short length wise, could just be the angle of the picture maybe.

[FFR-ADV]

Steve, that looks much better with the pillar leaning rearward. Have you tried it with the black area in the same color as the car?

Hi David,

Thanks, I agree that rearward leaning pillar is looking better. I did create a body colored and didn't like it as it seems to make the back out of proportion (visually heavy) compared to the 818 front. I recreated a quick edit to give an idea, but it is not likely doing justice to what you have in mind. Always great to hear from you!

Steve

13283

[Vman7]

Hi David,

Thanks, I agree that rearward leaning pillar is looking better. I did create a body colored and didn't like it as it seems to make the back out of proportion (visually heavy) compared to the 818 front. I recreated a quick edit to give an idea, but it is not likely doing justice to what you have in mind. Always great to hear from you!

Steve

13283

That's the same problem I came up with when doing my renderings, that's why I added a line, like the Vantage I posted above in post #73, and of course later going with the side vent up there, it breaks up that heavy look. You might want to try something along those lines. Be creative! :)

David

[jlahl3160]

Take a look at post # 18 here. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8157-Hard-top.

I think it would work.

John


The problem I see in that is how would you be able to fit a window in good.....

[Benji]

I am also concerned about side visability. Here is an Coupe/ Targa edit which brings the front door window back at an angle complimenting the door and rear air intake.

13274

Steve

Steve, definitely getting there, that's essentially what you'd have to do. Notice on the FR-S/BRZ it's slightly leaning back as well:

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2012/r-z-0-9/2012-Subaru-BRZ-Side-1024x768.jpg

[FFR-ADV]

As I have looked at other car examples I realize that the rear edge of the door extends of the 818 is forward of the seat headrests, while in most cars the headrest is forward of the rear door edge. The following edit stretches the door by ~7%. This is possible to do since the cutout which follows the 818S frame is not the same as the door, so the inner door opening could be left alone. That being said the door length change is likely improbable, since this is not a problem for the 818S Spyder design (though this may pose similar challenges for the soft top as well) and getting into production by June is a tall task!

Please do not take this or any of my edits as criticisms of the 818S design in any way. I purchased a WRX donor and am running it on the street to make sure everything is good while awaiting final donor part information. I also placed an order for th 818S and look forward to building it. If any of these thoughts help Jim and the rest of the Factory Five 818 development team, I will be content with that. I am tweaking a beautiful design, and wish to convey my deepest appreciation for what Factory Five and the 818 development team has accomplished. WELL DONE Factory Five!!!:D

13303

Steve

[Benji]

Yep, that was the problem I was trying to point out.

[kitcarj]

Given head clearance I think this one is more realistic. Otherwise it really needs to be taller and taper clear back to the spoiler.

12857I'm not really very good at this sort of thing, but I wanted to get in on the fun. Here is my not-so-good attempt at taking VMAN7's targa and putting it on an actual photo of the 818S. Conceptually, I like the look.

[kitcarj]

I don't know if all the cars have the same headrest height but if they do, the pictures with people sitting make it look like you need at least 6 inches above the headrest for clearance. In 1 picture the headrest was only as high as his ears.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi kitcarj,

Would you please post the picture of an 818S with a passenger? Height with the stock Subaru seats may be a problem, but Kirkey or other after market racing seats will gain alot of headroom plus drop some weight at the same time. As a bonus for finding that picture you will be "promoted" to Senior Member on your next post. :D

Cheers!

[timmy318]

Hi kitcarj,

Would you please post the picture of an 818S with a passenger? Height with the stock Subaru seats may be a problem, but Kirkey or other after market racing seats will gain alot of headroom plus drop some weight at the same time. As a bonus for finding that picture you will be "promoted" to Senior Member on your next post. :D

Cheers!

Lol, but yea kitcarj, please find a pic with a passenger in the 818-S! Also, if at all possible tell us his height and clearance he had with the stock subie seats!!

[kitcarj]

There are some pictures from sema on the closed thread that show people sitting in the chassis. Pg 41 post # 1627
Post 1568 and 1569 on page 40 don't make it look quite as bad

[kitcarj]

Did you promote me to senior member or did that happen automatically because I hit 100 posts? LOL
Those are not the S version. That is why I made the comment about not knowing if the seat height is the same.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi kitcarj

Congratulations on becoming a "Senior Member." Use your new powers well!!! LOL

I notice that the roll bar of th 818S looks higher than the roof of the GTM. Does anyone know the exact heights of both? The 818S without the body appears to have GTM seats. The alternate GTM or Kirkey racing seats are a great options to have and I will likely personally use one of these options.

Cheers!

[timmy318]

Did you promote me to senior member or did that happen automatically because I hit 100 posts? LOL
Those are not the S version. That is why I made the comment about not knowing if the seat height is the same.

Haha, we have all brought our Senior powers together to upgrade your status my friend..... Use it wisely :p!

[FFR-ADV]

As I have looked at other car examples I realize that the rear edge of the door extends of the 818 is forward of the seat headrests, while in most cars the headrest is forward of the rear door edge.

When I drove my WRX to work and looked toward the passenger seat I noticed that the front of the passenger headrest was even with the leading edge of the rear window. It is true of the driver's seat as well. The pillar next to my head has never bothered me in the 2 months I have been driving the donor. In fact I didn't even notice it till today. This is a longwinded way of saying I was wrong about this and the door stretching in post 102 is not necessary.

Here is a picture of a WRX interior from the web (not unlike mine) that shows this:

13368

Cheers!
Steve

[rjh2pd]

I just now realized that my 03 legacy "pillars" are in front of my head rest (i'm 6'0"). That car has the best visiblity of any car that ive driven , partially because of the hood being so low but back on topic. I actually think for visibility it is better for it to be right next to your head so that when you check over your shoulder you dont get a face full of pillar, you are already looking out the read side window ( or in this case that black chuck which i would assume be made into glass). As far as getting in and out of i dont think my car is bad. I would much rather get in and out of it than an accord or a grand marquee (just ones that ive got in and out of a lot). Just my thoughts...
13440

[FFR-ADV]

2013 will be a great year for 818 buld starts and hopefully some removable hardtop action (Gullwing T-Top is my personal favorite)

Happy New Year!

Steve
aka FFR-ADV

[FFR-ADV]

My favorite layout is not mine but the fine work of our friend David (aka Vman7)

14242

Happy New Year!

[FFR-ADV]

How about a twist on the Vman7 concept by adding a roof cold air intake in addition to the side air intakes similar to Exige? Gullwing T-Top could still work with the snorkle extending over the T-Top portion.

1425814259

Happy New Year!

[FFR-ADV]

The Gullwing could work like the aftermarket accessory one on these Elises.

Roof mounted cold air intake would widen the central T-Top but still ease entry and exit from the car.

1426014261

Gullwing tops could be removed on nice days.

This could be accomplished in hand layup or perhaps thermoform.

Happy New Year!

[flynntuna]

That yellow one is hot. If the windshield and top were one piece, and the back end attaching to the rollbar with a vertical glass also on the rollbar.

[FFR-ADV]

The yellow and blue have the same gullwing top;

14265

Add Vman7 modifications to the rear:

14264

Very exciting 2013 in front of us!

Happy New Year!

[slopoke]

It would really be great if Vman and Rodney O could have some serious and meaningful collaborations with FFR. (sigh) C'est la vie

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Vman,

Glad to see you working this! I was thinking of upper gullwing only like was done aftermarket for the Elise.

12853

Here is my inspiration:

12854

Cheers!

I found another example of a gullwing targa top that is simple, inexpensive and effective. A gullwing top could allow 818R builders an easier way in and out than crawling thru the window, if a full X style roll cage is used for track.

17625

Hope your hardtop design is getting a warm reception at Factory Five Vman!

Cheers!

[bnr32jason]

The yellow and blue have the same gullwing top;

14265

Add Vman7 modifications to the rear:

14264

Very exciting 2013 in front of us!

Happy New Year!

This is almost exactly how I want my exhaust (minus the side-exit of course), but I want my exhaust tips centered instead of off to the edges. Looks great!

[Vman7]

I found another example of a gullwing targa top that is simple, inexpensive and effective. A gullwing top could allow 818R builders an easier way in and out than crawling thru the window, if a full X style roll cage is used for track.

17625

Hope your hardtop design is getting a warm reception at Factory Five Vman!

Cheers!

Thanks :), I haven't worked on too much of anything the last month.....again, been so busy around the house.
I am somewhat leaning toward a T-top design when it comes to a removeable top for the coupe, mostly due to if it was a targa top where to you put the the top, with a t-top or maybe a split targa top it would allow for being able to store the pieces somewhere.


This is almost exactly how I want my exhaust (minus the side-exit of course), but I want my exhaust tips centered instead of off to the edges. Looks great!

That rear design is only a Mock-up, that's why you see the side exhaust.

[Buzz Skyline]

That looks awesome!


Here is another 818 Targa version. (Thanks for the nice picture from SEMA to work with Dave)

12856

The windshield is swept low. This really shows up when a Targa top is on.

Steve

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks Buzz Skyline.

Welcome to the forum!