Multiple Bodies?

[Niles Stonne]

Hi All... I've been lurking here since the announcement, but really didn't see anything about this...

Since the frame/driveline is going to be completed soon, and the body design is intended to attach to the frame, is there a possibility of multiple body designs?

Obviously, there is additional expense for each design, but having a couple designs - one very "classic" and the other very modern could be quite interesting.

I'm thinking a Stratos-esq design as well as a Mazda Furai like design...

Is this a logistical impossibility?

I'm sure we'll find out more tomorrow - if the body mounting points haven't been pre-determined, then it might not allow for standardized, swappable, bodies...

[subyrod]

I like this idea. Might take a couple years to get a second body, but opens up more possibilites and more customers.

[AVIONX]

A logistical impossiblity? I think it's time for a history lesson. The first 25 years of the kit car industry were almost exclusivley a huge variety new bodies that picked up the existing mounting points on the VW beetle. So it will work, but day one is going to be just one body I'm sure. Down the road, the skys the limit. Not to mention being a great design idea (the Saturn Sky that is) :)

[Niles Stonne]

A logistical impossiblity? I think it's time for a history lesson. The first 25 years of the kit car industry were almost exclusivley a huge variety new bodies that picked up the existing mounting points on the VW beetle. So it will work, but day one is going to be just one body I'm sure. Down the road, the skys the limit. Not to mention being a great design idea (the Saturn Sky that is) :)

Ah, true, true! I'm still someone new to the kit car world...

[PhyrraM]

A second body sounds like a perfect opportunity for a 3rd party company to come in and fill a (percieved?) need. If FFR goes modern, do retro...If FFR goes retro, do something modern....

[Olimk2]

It's all about money and time...

[Cooluser23]

Well maybe there will be multiple designs in vastly different directions. We'll see. :)

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I had also thought about this. I thought about this during the whole open-top/convertible/targa/ removable hard top discussion. I'm sure it would be alot to expect from FFR right from the start, but if this is truly going to be kind of a "universal" world car, it might make sense down the road for FFR to use the same basic chassis and offer a few different options for body style & roof options....like a coupe option.

[Dirk]

I like the idea's in this thread and it would solve the open top / coupe discussion.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I like the idea's in this thread and it would solve the open top / coupe discussion.

That was my thinking. Make the bodies so that you can use a common hood, doors and rear clam-shell (so all of the chassis-to-body close-out panels and such stay the same) and then offer a main body panel in either "roadster" or "coupe" form, with the coupe body supplied with some snap-in lexan windows or something along those lines. Yes, roll-up windows would be nice, but I don't want to get into another complicated and difficult door/window assembly like the GTM.

[BoxerFanatic]

That is supposed to be the big point of a space frame chassis, over a structural-body car, such as unibody, or body-on-frame (where the body has to hold itself up, even if it is bolted to a chassis frame) that the structure and body are independent, and the body can be re-styled easily.

DeLorean DMC12
Pontiac Fiero
Maserati Bora and Merak

and many others are space-frame mid or rear engined cars.

[Dave Smith]

I posted essentially the same thought on another thread. After seeing the early design submissions, this thought is screaming out at me. Still, the resources and budget for now indicate one design, but the chassis is pretty adaptable and I cant help but think this might be a real direction. There is another fact that we haven't spoken of, and that is of alternate powerplants... there are a huge array of engines from turbo diesels to Fords ROCKIN new ecoboost v6. engine bay space and real-estate management is key. Its asking SO MUCH of a design to simply meet the goals we set forth... still we might get lucky and nail a few extras like #2 and #3 body designs on a shared world platform and alt engines... But it's late and Im dreaming at this point past anything but the clear design goals that were so carefully crafted.

Dave Smith

[JrBON79]

i saw at carisle a few years ago a dragon motorsports car that would accept multiple bodies.
i think one was a c****, a t-bucket/exoskeleton, and something else i cant remember, so its been done.
interesting idea i think

[LiquidPT]

There is another fact that we haven't spoken of, and that is of alternate powerplants... there are a huge array of engines from turbo diesels to Fords ROCKIN new ecoboost v6. engine bay space and real-estate management is key.

Does that mean there might actually be space for Subaru's H6? I know others have had this thought in other threads...

[Dave Smith]

These are the questions that give genius designers like Jim and Jesper permanent eye twitches... Frankly, the opposed four is THE engine the car is being designed for, and one of the things we've done very well is to stick to design goals, so for now, alternate powerplants MUST be subordinate to the pure and clean focus of the car... Still low hanging fruit is low hanging fruit and the engineering team knows full well the number of things people have done with FFR chassis, so leaving as much room for alt power is a solid consideration. For now, i would imagine it is a distraction to bank on the 6, as the body will contribute to the "real estate management" of the car. There may be trade-offs (space for engine/trans) but at this point its too hard to say yes to that.

Dave

[Olimk2]

Should fit as it is just a tad longer...

[redsharK]

This new design could easily turn into the fastest FFR model made with a stock Subie 2.5 liter turbo 4, a good tune and some sticky tires.
And still be completely civil on the street. That is why I love turbo cars and the whole new designs concept. :D

[BrandonDrums]

These are the questions that give genius designers like Jim and Jesper permanent eye twitches... Frankly, the opposed four is THE engine the car is being designed for, and one of the things we've done very well is to stick to design goals, so for now, alternate powerplants MUST be subordinate to the pure and clean focus of the car... Still low hanging fruit is low hanging fruit and the engineering team knows full well the number of things people have done with FFR chassis, so leaving as much room for alt power is a solid consideration. For now, i would imagine it is a distraction to bank on the 6, as the body will contribute to the "real estate management" of the car. There may be trade-offs (space for engine/trans) but at this point its too hard to say yes to that.

Dave

If you can leave an extra 4'' in the engine bay you won't have to bank on anything. That's all that's needed on the part of the kit to make it h6 capable. Everything else; engine tranny mounts etc are mostly identical.

I can't imagine any other hurdles to overcome...

[thebeerbaron]

If you can leave an extra 4'' in the engine bay you won't have to bank on anything. That's all that's needed on the part of the kit to make it h6 capable. Everything else; engine tranny mounts etc are mostly identical.

I can't imagine any other hurdles to overcome...

I think what Dave is saying is that the body design might not allow those extra 4". I know in my designs I have the cockpit right up against where I've calculated the H4 bulkhead to be. To my eye, that's where it has to be and 4" forward would ruin the lines.

If the winning design has the driver sitting in front of the front wheels, then there will be obvious room for everything up to a V12. If it's not obvious how the winning design could accommodate the H6 (or any other engine), I don't think Jim and Jasper will spend the time reworking the frame to fit it.

[GS guy]

Being in the process of building a mid-engine Subaru powered car, of only 85" wheelbase, I can attest to the packaging aspects - and difficulty there-of.
Ideally, I'd like to see the fuel tank sitting cross-ways just behind the cockpit and in front of the engine. Adding 10" to the wheelbase would just "barely" allow this in my (85") car - that is with the front of the foot box already in line with the front axles, and fairly cab-forward. It would be very nice to see in this new car the option of either the turbo 4, or non-turbo alternative H6. The drivetrain could be positioned a little more rearward, since the axles don't have to be 100% in-line with the rear wheel hubs. It all comes down to an inch here and an inch there. Packaging begins to get pretty tight no matter how you design it! IMO a pair of 3bbl throttle bodies would be an impressive sight when cracking the engine cover, vs. the complex plumbing and valves of the turbo alternative! I know very well about the latter!

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/jg_pics/Deserter%20Pages/DSCN320106.jpg

Jeff

[Rotr8]

^^^ Nice Build! thanks for the imput

[Olimk2]

Yes, i'd like to see more of this car...

[GS guy]

I appreciate the interest, but don't think this is the right forum to discuss my project. Just wanted to bring to light some of the space constraints I've struggled with doing a similar build to the one that is proposed.
As for the multiple bodies - my vote is for a pure roadster version with no windows or other "ammenities", BUT - with an optional targa roof top and available wondows, etc. to make it an all weather car if that's what you want. In my mind a Dino style roof (rear portion) with removable targa section would look good.

[crackedcornish]

Personally, I would like to see a minimalist "Atom" style plastic body option added to the list of those available for simplicity sake. As I've never done a component car before and I would like to use it as a learning experience before I attempt one of the more complex FFR cars

[posthaste]

Body style is SO subjective, everyone had a fav in the contests that their buddy next to them thought was not as awesome as a different entry.
Cost and such not withstanding, the idea of having a choice between a few body styles rather then going with the one by popular choice could only serve to open this project up to more people.
Aftermarket suppliers is one option.
Another choice could be base model for budget constricted builds, and of course the obvious, extra $ additions or swap outs.

Overall, I just felt I'd voice my want for additional body choice as well, and to also let you know that after I finish helping my Dad finish his gtm (we're at the cart stage now), I'd like to have a crack an 818.

Factory Five does not sell kit cars, they sell dreams.
This particular dream is one that many people can reach, before old age, and with an average job (read as won't break the bank), a dream that has astounding performance, decent reliability, and if multiple body choices were there, a great look no matter what your personal taste is.
How awesome is that?
So awesome, no one else has done it before.
That is just how awesome the 818 has the very real potential to be.
Excited? You bet.

Posthaste, igor to the owner of gtm12