Installing a 2005-2009 T3650 with a Coyote...

[ClemsonS197]

There's not a whole lot of info on installing this trans in roadster, so here's how I did it:

First, obtain a T3650 from 2005-2009 Mustang GT. Getting the shifter linkage with it is very helpful.

Upon purchase, you'll want to install a new slave cylinder. Get one from Ford, or get a Dorman from rockauto. Any other brands are prone to leaking. Installation is 2 bolts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0942_zpseec38238.jpg

Next, you'll want a clutch. I'd recommend an Exedy or Valeo if you want a single disc with stock like effort. If your pockets are deeper, there are plenty of fantastic dual discs out there. Before you mount the clutch, you'll want to check to see if your slave needs a shim.

General Understanding: Factory Hyd. setup (http://www.ramclutches.com/Instructions/Factory%20Hyd%20Setup.htm)

How to measure: http://www.ramclutches.com/Instructions/FACTORYBEARINGPOSITION1010.pdf

Shim or don't shim as needed, and install the clutch:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0940_zpsccde765c.jpg

With the clutch installed, you need to support the trans. You can use the FF provided cross member, you'll just need to drill out some holes for the Ford trans mount. Order one 7, one 8, and two 9's from Ford:

2007 FORD MUSTANG Parts - Tousley Ford Parts Depot (http://www.tousleyfordparts.com/parts/2007/FORD/MUSTANG/GT/?siteid=214771&vehicleid=1433389&diagram=JC05245&diagramCallOut=7)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0041.jpg

You'll need a slip driveshaft made. I had one made by a local shop for under $400. The bolts on the 8.8 flange are the same as the 3650 flange. The 3650 flange is a larger diameter though, so the driveshaft will have different ends. Bolts needed (you need 8 bolts total):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0025-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0018-1.jpg

The shifter will need some work. The B&M for 05-09 Mustang GT uses pivot mount that is easy to mount on a plate. I bought some 3/16 steel plate and cut a hole for the shifter to drop through then mounted it to the trans rails:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/photobucket-10723-1343593733576.jpg

To reduce the height of the shifter, I just used a die to cut the threads all the way down the stalk. The thread is M12x1.25. Pick your shifter ball.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/photobucket-4604-1343593716971.jpg

The shifter works the same as the stock Mustang, only the linkage goes forward over the trans, instead of back of the trans.

Now, to the clutch. I used the stock pieces and bought a new braided line. The braided line includes the special fittings to fit the trans and the Ford master cylinder. The part is:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCL-139251/

[ClemsonS197]

That connects the hydraulics from the trans to the master cylinder. I grafted the OEM master on to a pedal box using some plate steel. The result looks like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0194.jpg

The nipple off the master is 5/16" and the Wilwood reservoir is 3/8". The working fluid of the clutch is DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. Since it's corrosive, I had a local hydraulic shop make me an EPDM line with transition. Here's everything connected:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/DSC_0946_zps32f414c9.jpg

And finally, you need to bleed the clutch. My local Advance has a hand vacuum pump loaner. The bleeding instructions are:


1. Make sure all hydraulic lines are correctly seated and all bleeder screws tightened.
2. Make sure clutch pedal is in the most upward position.
3. Check the fluid level. Fill the reservoir to the MAX fluid mark.
4. Using a suitable bleeder kit and vacuum pump, install the rubber stopper in the reservoir opening. Make sure it has a tight fit.
5. Holding the rubber stopper in place, operate the vacuum pump to 15-20 inches of vacuum. Hold the vacuum for 1 minute, then quickly release the vacuum. Remove the tools.
6. Check the reservoir and fill to MAX level if needed.
7. Depress and release the clutch 10 to 12 times until effort is consistent and positive at the top of clutch pedal travel.
8. Repeat 4, 5, and 6 two additional times or until clutch effort is consistent.
9. Install reservoir cap.
10. Check the reservoir and test for normal operation.

And that concludes your 2005-2009 T3650 transmission installation. I chose this transmission for my Coyote for a few reasons. It's readily available and cheap (lots of $500-$750 low mile units out there), it's set up for a hydraulic clutch, the remote shifter allows an ergonomic install location, and lastly they've been proven to hold 450+ hp. Hope that helps.

[mike forte]

Hi,
What does the fitting look like ate the external slave? Is it a screw in fitting or a pinned fitting with an o-ring?

[ClemsonS197]

Mike,

It's a o-ring that pushes and then a "U" clip holds it in. McLeod (PN 139251) makes an AN-4 line with the fittings:

http://di34.shoppingshadow.com/images/di/63/4a/4d/695169414b7a30393466725f4c326f45633477-450x450-0-0.jpg

[David]

Clemson,

Did you measure the motion ratio of the stock 2005+ mustang for the clutch pedal throw/MC throw? Thinking of duplicating your most excellent setup but want to make sure the stroke is accurate. :D

Also, the end of the hard line coming out of my transmission TO bearing looks to be the same as both ends of the fittings attached to the Mcleod flex line you posted a pic of above. Is there some other piece my transmission is missing?

Thanks for all your help!

David

[ClemsonS197]

Did you measure the motion ratio of the stock 2005+ mustang for the clutch pedal throw/MC throw? Thinking of duplicating your most excellent setup but want to make sure the stroke is accurate. :D

I have the original S197 pedal box geometry written down. I'll have to find it in my stack of paperwork. I'll also measure my current travel. What clutch are you going to use?


Also, the end of the hard line coming out of my transmission TO bearing looks to be the same as both ends of the fittings attached to the Mcleod flex line you posted a pic of above. Is there some other piece my transmission is missing?

Nope. Both ends are the same.

[David]

Cool, thanks! I spent all the time making the wildwood mc work with the hydroboost, and while it will take some more work, getting the stock mustang MC to work seems the smarter way to go. If it ever failed on a road trip, it would be easy to source a replacement.

Im going with a Mcleod clutch. Its their street clutch, so is supposed to be close to stock pedal effort.

Thanks for your help on this stuff!

David

[ClemsonS197]

The stock MC compresses 1-7/16". Center of the clutch pedal pivot bolt to the eyelet center on the MC is 2-7/8". Long test drive today and the effort is perfect.

[David]

Great, thanks Clemson! That's a big help. Is that your ratio, stock or both?

[ClemsonS197]

It's both. There is also about another 1/2 to 3/4" of travel available in the MC, but my clutch didn't need the travel.

[David]

Perfect, thanks so much!!

David

[ATOLightning]

It's both. There is also about another 1/2 to 3/4" of travel available in the MC, but my clutch didn't need the travel.
Since you say there's more travel left in the MC, I assume there's more travel left in the pedal. Did you make a pedal stop? If so, could you snap a couple of pictures and post them?

Thanks,
Michael

[ClemsonS197]

The stock S197 pedal box did not have a stop on it. I figured if the stock Mustang pieces did not require a stop, I did not need it.

You push the pedal, which pushes the master cylinder in, which moves the fluid expanding the slave pushing on the pressure plate fingers lifting it off the clutch disc. So either the pressure plate fingers are moved as far as they'll go, or the slave is extended to the max. I guess you could add a stop and adjust it so you have enough travel to lift the pressure plate, but not max it out.

[ATOLightning]

The stock S197 pedal box did not have a stop on it. I figured if the stock Mustang pieces did not require a stop, I did not need it.

You push the pedal, which pushes the master cylinder in, which moves the fluid expanding the slave pushing on the pressure plate fingers lifting it off the clutch disc. So either the pressure plate fingers are moved as far as they'll go, or the slave is extended to the max. I guess you could add a stop and adjust it so you have enough travel to lift the pressure plate, but not max it out.

Ahhh, that makes sense. I was also forgetting that you have the mustang pedals.

Thanks

[ClemsonS197]

Ahhh, that makes sense. I was also forgetting that you have the mustang pedals.

Thanks

Correct. I used the pedal box out of a 95 so I could bend them outboard to fit the Coyote pedal in without its length.

Very pleased with the effort.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/th_VID_20130217_143811_zps853a2270.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Factory%20Five%20Roadster/VID_20130217_143811_zps853a2270.mp4)

[David]

Clemson, I got my master cyl today. That's going to be a nice solution! I ordered the full line and elbow with the bleeder from McCleod since my trans didn't have the elbow. Summit has it for $110. I'll post some pics of the design once I make some progress.

On another note, did you need to lift the motor with spacers on the motor mounts or other alternative? Its been a while, but I remember I thought I needed to do that for some reason and machined some spacers which have been installed for over a year I think.. I have a bit of clearance left with my Champ pan, so I may be able to reduce the thickness of the spacers. What pan are you using?

David

[ClemsonS197]

I have the champ pan. I used the spacers to clear the PS pulley and to avoid having to slot the ffr mounts.

[David]

Clemson,

Do you know if the master cyl needs to be fully extended to at rest to work correctly, or can the travel be in the middle of its stroke with the pedal at rest?

Also, do you remember how much pre-load you had on your throw-out bearing? The link you posted mentioned a min of .6 inch. My pre-load is around .7-.8"

David

[ClemsonS197]

Clemson,

Do you know if the master cyl needs to be fully extended to at rest to work correctly, or can the travel be in the middle of its stroke with the pedal at rest?

Also, do you remember how much pre-load you had on your throw-out bearing? The link you posted mentioned a min of .6 inch. My pre-load is around .7-.8"

David

David,

The master cylinder is at max-stroke at rest on the stock box. The "ring" on the end is threaded for some slight adjust, IIRC.

My pre-load was between .6 an .7 but I don't recall the exact number. It was good so I didn't get a shim or care much after that.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

[David]

Thanks Kevin, that help! David