JDM EJ207 V7/V8 package for the 818

[Gus]

Hi guys,

I'm really interested in using the JDM EJ207 V7 or V8 for my 818 build. It's seems ideally suited for such a lightweight car. That being said, these engine often come in a package as describe below;

Complete Head and Block
Complete Intake&Exhaust Manifold
coil packs
Injectors
Power Steering Pump
Throttle Body
Exhaust Manifold
Alternator
ECU
Distributor
All Brakets And Sensors
Engine Wiring Harness
All required Cables
A/C Power Steering Pump
AC Compressor
Turbo
Intercooler
Starter
6 Speed MT DCCD Transmission AWD
4 Drive Axles
Differential
Drive Shaft
Front and Rear Suspensions
Brembo Brakes Front and Rear

They usually sell around 7k$

-I'm planning on swapping the 6MT for a WRX 5MT
-Buying aftermarket seat & steering wheel

(1) Do ou think buying a used jdm engine is a good idea to start with?
(2) Would the twinscroll (v8, if I'm correct) would be better suited for a mild build (350 whp) 818 or would you recommend the V7 with forged internal?
(3) Is 7k$ a decent price?
(4) What would I be missing/will not fit to complete the 818? (dash instrument,...)
(5) How much do you think a pallet with what is reqired in (4) would cost?

Thanks for your help!!!!

12353
12354

[JAubin]

I don't have any first hand experience w/ the EJ207, but here's my thoughts:
1- It could be a good idea, assuming it's in good shape (ie compression/leakdown) and doesn't have a ton of miles on it. The motors themselves are awesome. The one issue (for me at least) is that NH doesn't read the ECU for emissions, so I'd probably be swapping in a USDM ECU for testing.
2- I believe the V8 have hypereutectic pistons, that are also very good...either should be fine. The twinscroll is really nice, except that you'd need a custom downpipe for it, which isn't a huge deal but just another thing you'd need.
3- $7k isn't crazy w/ the 6 speed tranny, but I believe most places just sell the long block/intercooler/turbo/ecu as well. I'd go that route and grab a donor and sell the long block out of that.
4- There would be quite a few parts, not that you couldn't source them individually...the 818 page lists what you'd need besides the motor.
5- That's tricky... If you can score a donor for 5k tho, you should be able to get 2k for the long block if it's in decent shape. That's the route I would go...

[JAubin]

Also, I would really love to do that very setup, but the extra little things (ECU, downpipe, not knowing the motor's history...) have me leaning towards rebuilding the EJ205 out of the donor with a fresh subaru shortblock and going from there. the EJ207 would definitely be an awesome motor for a car like this though, but I'm sure the EJ205 will move it well enough also.

[PhyrraM]

IMHO,

Just the motor, yes.
The whole package? no. (unless your plan is to sell most of it to recoup expenses)

The V7 (I believe V8 also) is basically the same (mounting and electrically) as an '02-'03 2.0 WRX with variable intake cam timing (AVCS). If you need to pass an inspection where they plug into the OBD2 port, the ECU can't be used, but a '02-'03 WRX ECU will run it but not utilize the AVCS. The rest of the STI swap is just over-priced stuff that is not ideally suited to the 818 (Brembo brakes, 6 speed, larger rear diff, etc).

From the V8 the front hub/knuckles won't even fit because of the change in strut mounting.

[JRach]

What PhyrraM said.

The V7/V8 longblock is nice, you get the benefit of AVCS and higher flowing heads. Rather than dropping $7k on a whole package, you might be able to save some money by just buying the longblock. Then you can use any usdm 02-05 wrx wiring harness, ecu and gauge cluster to run it, there's a wiring kit available to add the AVCS wiring (through IA performance). 02-05 usdm wiring can be found for pretty cheap. As for the other parts, there's really no need to source it all from one car. AWD Impreza's from 93-07 all have the same front spindles. All rear spindles from any 93-07 AWD impreza's (with rear disc brakes) are the same (with the exception being the 06/07 wrx, which has a different backing plate for the 2 pot rear brakes). Same goes for rear lateral links and control arms, any 93-01 impreza rear lateral links are the same (as long as they came with a rear sway bar) as any 02-07 impreza wagon. Any front control arm of any 93-01 impreza is the same as the 02-07 impreza wagon (06/07 wrx had aluminum arms like the STI). The 02-07 Sedans had slightly longer front and rear links/arms, which compensated for camber by slightly changing the location of the bolt holes on the struts (where they mount to the spindles).
All these parts can be found dirt cheap at your local pick n' pull/wrecking yard. (early foresters and many of the leagcy's have identical links/control arms and spindles as well)

If you're looking to do a budget build this is what i'd suggest...

-Any Impreza motor w/ compatible wiring harness, ecu and gauge cluster
-Any Impreza 5 speed (8 bolt bellhousing, unless your motor came from an early style vehicle)
-Any impreza rear lateral links
-Any impreza front control arms (preferably matched to your rear links (02-07 sedan vs any 93-01 or 02-07 wagon)
-Any impreza spindles (w/ rear disc brakes) w/ calipers/rotors
-02-07 Steering rack/column (P/S hardlines from the reservior/pump to the rack changed between models. Some pumps interfere with the turbo inlet, try and match your rack to the same style pump that was originally found on your motor. (i'm wondering how they addressed the change in mounting style from the 02-05 wrx rack vs the 06/07 and 05+ STI rack)
fwiw- 06/07 wrx and 04+ sti rack's have a quicker ratio (15:1 vs 16.5:1) (04' STI shares the mounting style of the 02-05 wrx rack)
Factory five lists "upper steering column assembly", the mounting points are the same for the upper portion on all 93-07 impreza models (as are the mounts for the steering rack on all 93-05 models). The only change in the column was the end of the column where it passes through the firewall, and the spline count on the end of the column. If you use an early style motor (with early style P/S pump) i'm sure it would possible to use any 93-01 steering column and rack as well.
-Any pedal box matched to the transmission you chose. (FFR specifies a 02-07 pedal box, which means they'll be using the hydraulic clutch set-up. If you use a cable clutch style transmission it would be pretty easy to run a custom cable from the clutch pedal back to the trans) Mounting points from 93-07 are nearly the same, very minimal modification and they'll swap back/forth. The throttle pedal is independent of the rest of the box. If you use a cable throttle body (02-05 wrx, most JDM engines) you'll need a cable actuated throttle pedal. If you used a DBW throttle body/motor/ecu you'll need the matching throttle pedal. Early turbo legacies used a hydraulic clutch, as did the 98-01 2.5RS. All hydraulic clutch master cylinders are the same. Brake master cylinders are all identical in how they mount up, this may depend on how FFR does the hardlines coming from the brake master cylinder as there's differences there (abs cars vs non abs, sti vs wrx) fwiw- sti has a larger diameter plunger w/ in the master cylinder.
-Any Impreza front seats 93-07 all have the same mounting points. I'd suggest some JDM WRX/STI seats, they're more supportive/comfortable and don't have the extra weight of airbag crap like many of the late model Impreza's.
-Any Impreza fuel pump (again, i'm waiting to see how FFR handles the wiring, but the housings/gas tanks of all AWD impreza's (except the EJ18) are the same. So if you just need the fuel pump housing you can source one from just about any car. From there swapping in a Walbro 255 pump is only an additional $75
-Radiator, There's MANY decent aftermarket aluminum radiators available for cheap!
-Wheels tires from any 5x100 Subaru that clear the brakes you choose

All little mounting brackets, door hinges and such can be sourced pretty easily at little to no cost. Is this more time consuming than buying one donor car? Yes. Is this going to save you a ton of money? Absolutely.

I'm certain all the parts listed above can be had for next to nothing. The most expensive portion will certainly be the motor/wiring. All the other stuff is easily sourced.
However, sometimes you get lucky... i've personally purchased a wrecked WRX for $1,500 :)

[shinn497]

In NASIOC there are vendors that will sell you the ej207 without transmission for ~4k.

[shinn497]

What PhyrraM said.

The V7/V8 longblock is nice, you get the benefit of AVCS and higher flowing heads. Rather than dropping $7k on a whole package, you might be able to save some money by just buying the longblock. Then you can use any usdm 02-05 wrx wiring harness, ecu and gauge cluster to run it, there's a wiring kit available to add the AVCS wiring (through IA performance). 02-05 usdm wiring can be found for pretty cheap. As for the other parts, there's really no need to source it all from one car. AWD Impreza's from 93-07 all have the same front spindles. All rear spindles from any 93-07 AWD impreza's (with rear disc brakes) are the same (with the exception being the 06/07 wrx, which has a different backing plate for the 2 pot rear brakes). Same goes for rear lateral links and control arms, any 93-01 impreza rear lateral links are the same (as long as they came with a rear sway bar) as any 02-07 impreza wagon. Any front control arm of any 93-01 impreza is the same as the 02-07 impreza wagon (06/07 wrx had aluminum arms like the STI). The 02-07 Sedans had slightly longer front and rear links/arms, which compensated for camber by slightly changing the location of the bolt holes on the struts (where they mount to the spindles).
All these parts can be found dirt cheap at your local pick n' pull/wrecking yard. (early foresters and many of the leagcy's have identical links/control arms and spindles as well)

If you're looking to do a budget build this is what i'd suggest...

-Any Impreza motor w/ compatible wiring harness, ecu and gauge cluster
-Any Impreza 5 speed (8 bolt bellhousing, unless your motor came from an early style vehicle)
-Any impreza rear lateral links
-Any impreza front control arms (preferably matched to your rear links (02-07 sedan vs any 93-01 or 02-07 wagon)
-Any impreza spindles (w/ rear disc brakes) w/ calipers/rotors
-02-07 Steering rack/column (P/S hardlines from the reservior/pump to the rack changed between models. Some pumps interfere with the turbo inlet, try and match your rack to the same style pump that was originally found on your motor. (i'm wondering how they addressed the change in mounting style from the 02-05 wrx rack vs the 06/07 and 05+ STI rack)
fwiw- 06/07 wrx and 04+ sti rack's have a quicker ratio (15:1 vs 16.5:1) (04' STI shares the mounting style of the 02-05 wrx rack)
Factory five lists "upper steering column assembly", the mounting points are the same for the upper portion on all 93-07 impreza models (as are the mounts for the steering rack on all 93-05 models). The only change in the column was the end of the column where it passes through the firewall, and the spline count on the end of the column. If you use an early style motor (with early style P/S pump) i'm sure it would possible to use any 93-01 steering column and rack as well.
-Any pedal box matched to the transmission you chose. (FFR specifies a 02-07 pedal box, which means they'll be using the hydraulic clutch set-up. If you use a cable clutch style transmission it would be pretty easy to run a custom cable from the clutch pedal back to the trans) Mounting points from 93-07 are nearly the same, very minimal modification and they'll swap back/forth. The throttle pedal is independent of the rest of the box. If you use a cable throttle body (02-05 wrx, most JDM engines) you'll need a cable actuated throttle pedal. If you used a DBW throttle body/motor/ecu you'll need the matching throttle pedal. Early turbo legacies used a hydraulic clutch, as did the 98-01 2.5RS. All hydraulic clutch master cylinders are the same. Brake master cylinders are all identical in how they mount up, this may depend on how FFR does the hardlines coming from the brake master cylinder as there's differences there (abs cars vs non abs, sti vs wrx) fwiw- sti has a larger diameter plunger w/ in the master cylinder.
-Any Impreza front seats 93-07 all have the same mounting points. I'd suggest some JDM WRX/STI seats, they're more supportive/comfortable and don't have the extra weight of airbag crap like many of the late model Impreza's.
-Any Impreza fuel pump (again, i'm waiting to see how FFR handles the wiring, but the housings/gas tanks of all AWD impreza's (except the EJ18) are the same. So if you just need the fuel pump housing you can source one from just about any car. From there swapping in a Walbro 255 pump is only an additional $75
-Wheels tires from any 5x100 Subaru that clear the brakes you choose

All little mounting brackets, door hinges and such can be sourced pretty easily at little to no cost. Is this more time consuming than buying one donor car? Yes. Is this going to save you a ton of money? Absolutely.

I'm certain all the parts listed above can be had for next to nothing. The most expensive portion will certainly be the motor/wiring. All the other stuff is easily sourced.
However, sometimes you get lucky... i've personally purchased a wrecked WRX for $1,500 :)

Hey Jrach, do you think it would be possible to use a much older donor (early ninties), if you plan on sourcing an ej207? This is my path. I have asked this so many times and still not sure.

[JRach]

Hey Jrach, do you think it would be possible to use a much older donor (early ninties), if you plan on sourcing an ej207? This is my path. I have asked this so many times and still not sure.

That's kind of what I was getting at with that post. Yes.

I'm still waiting to see how they sort out a few things, but there's really no reason you couldn't use an early GC car as a donor (other than some small brackets, hinges, seat belts etc). I'm sure you'll have to source a couple things, but based off the list they've released on "what you need" you're 90% there. Especially if you're using a more powerful motor (ej207).

[PhyrraM]

Just keep in mind that '90s wiring harnesses can run "the car", but cannot run a 2000+ engine.

The engine control must match the motor.

(there are a few exceptions, but those get very tedious to sort out and are best left to Subaru forums until we are posting on actual 818 builds)


My personal ideal solution......

1. Use a first gen Legacy as a donor. Reason: the engine control is 95% the same as a first gen WRX ('92-'96, never in America). Hardware is 95% the same as proper donor WRX ('02-'07).

2. Convert that last 5% of wiring to run a '92-'96 WRX ECU and motor (EJ20G).
3. Obtain phase 1 DOHC turbo heads (any pre-1999 turbo Subaru (EJ20G, EJ20K are most common)
4. Obtain early Legacy ('89-'93) or early WRX ('92-'96) intake manifold (EJ20G).
5. Build any size, or spec, shortblock you wish, mild-to-wild, free-to-$$$$. (AKA, any power level you choose)
6. Obtain programable engine management meant for early WRX (EJ20G). Lots of choices from piggybacks, to rechips, to standalones.
7. Assemble everything you've aquired together in your 818.
8. Realize that the only major tech your missing by not using newer stuff is AVCS (variable valve timing).
9. Realize that for any given piece, you likely paid 1/2 of what you would have given for newer WRX equivalents. (Exeption: Short block (cost is entirely based on desired power level) and engine managment, which can be free in a '02-'07 if you go open source)

It's not a path for everyone, and there are a few gotchas, but it can make your 818 a very sub-$15,000 build without giving any performance up to a stock '02-'05 WRX donor build. It also keeps you out of OBD2 territory if your in a sticky area.

[JRach]

Just keep in mind that '90s wiring harnesses can run "the car", but cannot run a 2000+ engine.

The engine control must match the motor.

It's not a path for everyone, and there are a few gotchas, but it can make your 818 a very sub-$15,000 build without giving any performance up to a stock '02-'05 WRX donor build. It also keeps you out of OBD2 territory if your in a sticky area.


Yup, that was kind of the point I was going for with having the wiring matching the motor.

I like the availability and how inexpensive the ej20k/ej20g motors can be sourced, but the lack of tunability without a standalone can be tough. Also, their heads aren't the greatest as far as flow. For a budget "built" longblock I'd source case halves for any N/A ej22 usdm motor. They're plenty strong enough to handle mild amounts of boost, and can be found for free (if you're already planning on spending the money on forged pistons/rods), using any aftermarket sti rods and custom pistons and with a 79mm crank you'd be just around 2.33 liters. From there i'd go with some usdm ej205 heads, full wiring harness, manifold and accessories (with all the spun bearing shortblocks and people upgrading to STI longblocks they can be found for under $1k, which is the cost of a stand alone set-up for a jdm swap). Those heads/wiring with mild porting and cams can make plenty of power, offer all the benefits of retaining OBDII and open source tuning and retaining the wrx gauge cluster.

[Gus]

Great info, thanks guys!!!

I think once the kit is out, quite a few people might be interested in buying an EJ207 long block and getting other parts from a single older donor or from a scrap ward as their build progresses. It might be a cheaper route and, to me (I'm far from being an expert), the appeal with the JDM EJ207 is its hi-revving capability, fast spooling turbo for a 2.0, no need to upgrade intercooler etc, pretty much 300-350 whp with a good tune right out of the box.

[metalmaker12]

Great info, thanks guys!!!

I think once the kit is out, quite a few people might be interested in buying an EJ207 long block and getting other parts from a single older donor or from a scrap ward as their build progresses. It might be a cheaper route and, to me (I'm far from being an expert), the appeal with the JDM EJ207 is its hi-revving capability, fast spooling turbo for a 2.0, no need to upgrade intercooler etc, pretty much 300-350 whp with a good tune right out of the box.

I have a ej207 with low mileage and low wear from jdm racing motors out of Canada. It is the third one I have owned and is by far the best one. It is a version 8 with the vf37, got it for 3800. Just put a new timing kit and plugs in it today. I would get 02-03 USDM wrx donor and get a ia performance bulkhead avcs wire kit to run the variable valve timing.
Also a fresh rebuild on the 02 tranny with a LSD should hold up
You get to keep the ej205 and rebuild it or sell it, any ej is good in my opinion, but the ej207 is the best wrx engine available. It revs hard and still has plenty of low end and is a very balanced power plant.
It is wise to use the Usdm ecu to pass emissions but than put the jdm ecu back

[metalmaker12]

I have owned the subies with the ej257, ej205 and ej207x3. I currently have a ej207 with low mileage and low wear from jdm racing motors out of Canada. It is the third ej207 (ej207 v7, v9 and this v8) I have owned and is by far the best one. It is a version 8 with the vf37, got it for 3800. Just put a new timing kit and plugs in it today. I would go your route with the front clip or a jdm 5x100 swap kit or get 02-03 USDM wrx donor and get a ia performance bulkhead avcs wire kit to run the variable valve timing, whichever is a better deal. The thing with the swap or clip is you still need a rack , and the six speed looks like it won't fit,,,,yet but no biggy, a rack is nothing and you can sell the 6 spd in 5 secs, or keep it and see if one of us figures it out, which i think will be done.
. Also a fresh rebuild on the 02 tranny with a LSD should hold up if your nice lol
. You get to keep the ej205 and rebuild it or sell it, any ej is good in my opinion
. The ej207 has proven to be the best in stock form wrx engine available. It revs hard and still has plenty of low end. It is a very balanced engine. stock ones with a good tune and some add ons run 325-350whp and add about 25whp for the 818.
.It is wise to use the Usdm ecu to pass emissions but than put the jdm ecu back. Some have reprogramed the jdm ecu to pass US emissions, but it is easier to just plug and play.
.

[BrandonDrums]

My ideal engine for the 818 would be a jdm ej207. 7k for the whole package is good because those 6 speeds can sell for 3-5k

However, just getting the engine might work out to be less overall.

I'd like to build a crazy jdm ej207 with a oil relieved and knife edged crank, ported heads and forged internals. It would be a screamer with a smooth torque delivery and high end power that would be most appropriate on the lightweight 2wd 818.

For the awd wrx/sti though, I much prefer the 2.5l