A 680 kg Catfish? (818 competitor to debut at SEMA this year)

[ScoobySnack818]

Looks like another swap-your-miata-body-with-this-cool-one kit. The thing that caught my eye was the styling; it is a bold departure from the norm, much like a few of the 818 design contest entries that did not win. There are quite a few differences car-wise (FR instead of MR, no doors, etc) so its not a direct comparison to the 818, but still cool to see another "fish" in the water when it comes to light, fast, affordable? sports cars.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2012/9/18/Miata-based-Catfish-Speedster-Coming-to-SEMA-7710768/

11856
11857

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Tn2Qv3fhhjE

I'm still with the 818. I want that boxer sound and turbo behind my head as I fly through the twisties. Can't wait for SEMA 2012!!!

-JP

[riptide motorsport]

i like it.......needs another seat though.

[StatGSR]

if fitted with a passenger seat, a decent roll structure, and a fair price it would be something i would consider.

[smoove7410]

Now that is how you style a car. Drop dead sexy! Add a passenger seat and a subi motor and I would be in.

Edit: Looks like a second seat will make an appearance and LS power is optional!

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/423694_326106850770875_1741050566_n.jpg

I'm looking forward to seeing this and the 818 at SEMA. Good time to be a car guy. :)

[smoove7410]

I love it. The design, to me, is very sexy. From what I have read through a quick google search, it will be available with everything everyone is 'wishing' for in this thread....full cage, passenger seat, different power sources. However, who knows on the the price, although something Miata based shouldn't be outrageously expensive. SEMA should be a good time for car guys! :)

[PhyrraM]

It also looks like all the mechanicals are from the Miata too. Should make it a true "single donor" car like we all hope the 818 will be.

Where is the radiator? No doors?

[Evan78]

Where is the radiator? No doors?Radiator is up front on the prototype. This post on their site (http://bauerltd.com/you-want-to-drive-it/) has a bunch of photos.

http://bauerltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/170312775.jpg

[D2W]

I like the concept. When FFR said they were building a hair on fire, elemental sports car this is what I thought they were going for. Nothing added that isn't absolutely needed, no doors, no windshield, definately no roll up windows. Just a pure drivers car with a simple design yet wicked good looks. I guess thats what you get when you use a professional designer. I wish Bauer luck and hope the final production car is close to this concept.

[Niburu]

similar to the MEV Exocet, I believe that ones around $7K

I suspect you'll see more and more miata based kits now that people have realized how much the can be pulled appart and still maintain its suspension geometry.

[MPTech]

Single donor, racing frame, rebodied, front engine, RWD....................
let's see, where have I heard of that before?
where was that?
where was that?




oh yeah............
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/FFRRoadster_zpsd2786fdf.jpg

I always wondered why FFR didn't offer other bodies to fit the Superior frame and setup they offer.
Something different that wasn't a replica, this would be a great candidate.

[AJ Roadster NJ]

I went to the link that Evan78 posted (above) and studied the pictures of the catfish and I'll say flat out that there's no way I'll plant my butt in that flimsy chassis. Good grief, it looks like a collapse waiting to happen. There can NEVER be doors in this car because the ONLY structural rigidity is coming from the Xs where the two doors should be. And the steel used for those Xs isn't very significantly sized. Moreover, I think the rails in my bed frame might be stronger than the steel below the two seats.

Good God, the thing just looks like a deathtrap to me. Beyond that, it doesn't look stiff enough to even make suspension choices relevant -- changing out suspension components, or adjusting them, doesn't do any good if the chassis is flexing beyond the range of the adjustment or new part. And baby, this thing is going to move around like a dancer looking at a 100 dollar bill.

I'm not an engineer, but we all have seat-of-the-pants reactions to good and bad designs, and maybe a qualified engineer could render an opinion.

AJ

[smoove7410]

The frame shown was a mule. The production will be straight across on the top. The lattice work in the first frame looks more than strong enough. With the optional LS2, this thing is similar to a modern day cobra.

http://bauerltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/17031249-21.jpg

Here's the body out of the mold from their facebook page....looks mean.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/r270/550669_413613655353527_884424116_n.jpg

Here are renders from other angles to add to the OP.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/543594_408151299233096_678694531_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/426714_408151275899765_1501971277_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/386993_408151319233094_517562746_n.jpg

[Evan78]

I went to the link that Evan78 posted (above) and studied the pictures of the catfish and I'll say flat out that there's no way I'll plant my butt in that flimsy chassis. Good grief, it looks like a collapse waiting to happen. There can NEVER be doors in this car because the ONLY structural rigidity is coming from the Xs where the two doors should be. And the steel used for those Xs isn't very significantly sized. Moreover, I think the rails in my bed frame might be stronger than the steel below the two seats.

Good God, the thing just looks like a deathtrap to me. Beyond that, it doesn't look stiff enough to even make suspension choices relevant -- changing out suspension components, or adjusting them, doesn't do any good if the chassis is flexing beyond the range of the adjustment or new part. And baby, this thing is going to move around like a dancer looking at a 100 dollar bill.

I'm not an engineer, but we all have seat-of-the-pants reactions to good and bad designs, and maybe a qualified engineer could render an opinion.

AJDid you read the article link in the 1st post? I'll quote a portion:

The original unibody was then replaced by a brand-new spaceframe designed by Ron Hemphill, renowned for designing chassis that have underpinned Paris Dakar and Baja off-road rally winners.Considering the designer's experience, the wide availability of computer modeling software, and the resources that appear to be going into the body design, I seriously doubt they will produce a frame that is inadequate.

[Mechie3]

I like that the frame covers the passengers from the side. Hope the 818 does that to protect from side impact.

[smoove7410]

I can't help but think the F20C would be the engine choice to get in this thing.....

[PhyrraM]

From the currently published pictures it looks like a second frame will be required for a non-Miata drivetrain (not unlike the 818 in it's current guise).

Reasoning...

The Miata rear subframe, including the rear diff, is used.
The Miata rear diff derives its 'counter' to rotational forces through the Power Plant Frame that runs up to the transmission.
The Power Plant frame requires the Miata transmission to bolt to at the other end.

Of course all of this can be worked around for an alternative rear diff or transmission, but then your changing a lot of the existing Catfish chassis.

I wonder how much less than a FFR Roadster this will weight?

[smoove7410]

They are aiming for 1500 pounds or less.

[Evan78]

I wonder how much less than a FFR Roadster this will weight?They are estimating 1500lbs. What do Roadsters typically come in at?

[Sultan]

It looks like it has everything to be street legal yet no windshield. And a top seems unlikely.

Yet I love the idea of a Miata based kit.

[Evan78]

http://bauerltd.com/catfish/

Full width windscreen is listed as an option. In California, adding a windshield means you must have wipers too I believe.

[JRL]

I went to the link that Evan78 posted (above) and studied the pictures of the catfish and I'll say flat out that there's no way I'll plant my butt in that flimsy chassis. Good grief, it looks like a collapse waiting to happen. There can NEVER be doors in this car because the ONLY structural rigidity is coming from the Xs where the two doors should be. And the steel used for those Xs isn't very significantly sized. Moreover, I think the rails in my bed frame might be stronger than the steel below the two seats.

Good God, the thing just looks like a deathtrap to me. Beyond that, it doesn't look stiff enough to even make suspension choices relevant -- changing out suspension components, or adjusting them, doesn't do any good if the chassis is flexing beyond the range of the adjustment or new part. And baby, this thing is going to move around like a dancer looking at a 100 dollar bill.

I'm not an engineer, but we all have seat-of-the-pants reactions to good and bad designs, and maybe a qualified engineer could render an opinion.

AJ

That speaks volumes. The guy that designed the chassis that you label suspect has done many - did you read the info in the link - or are you simply playing the only FFR can design / build a quality chassis card. As far as "NEVER" having doors have you compared the 818 chassis with that one? Good grief................

[fact5racer]

I can't wait to see it at SEMA myself! Just showed it to Tatiana and she LOVED it.

[riptide motorsport]

the top viiew and top front view remind me of the porsche speedster, nouvou and modernized.

[SW1]

Not bad. :)

[Kalstar]

Looks are great, like the way it flows, that said the 818 will be way up on power. The catfish would compete closer to a NA 818 build then a wrx build.

[GUNS]

Looks are great, like the way it flows, that said the 818 will be way up on power. The catfish would compete closer to a NA 818 build then a wrx build.

Unless you drop a LS-2 in the fish, which they are building the chassis to support. I'll be interested to see what the final price for this kit will be. I'm still more interested in the 818, but this could definitely provide some nice competition. I can see a 818/Catfish challenge series in the future :).

[Rockraven]

Guess who had a hand in the design? Shawn Whetstone!

[Benji]

Yeah, after his appearance that was my first reaction! Welcome back Shawn, where have you been? What have you been up to? ;)

[SW1]

I have been working on some great projects. Just booked flights to Vegas for SEMA and am really excited to see both the 818 and the Catfish in person. I am addicted to the 818 forum like many others and look forward to every new update. Hope to run into some of you at SEMA.

Cheers,
Shawn

[Benji]

I have to meet you!