Coupe header question and mild gripe session

[Coupe2740]

I am building a coupe (second gen.) and was wondering if anyone has had trouble with their headers passing through the body cutouts? I installed a 302 (stroked to 347, nothing special other than that), but the problem is that the left header is a bit too high and hits the foot box, while the right header is too low (yes, the engine is level). I could cut the body further, however, the side pipes would still not be even on both sides. I am not looking for solutions, as I can fix it, but I have reached the point of frustration and think I should not have to cut and re-weld the headers to make them fit the way they should. I do not expect the kit to be perfect but I waste needless time and money fixing things that should not have occurred in the first place. My guess is that the engine mounts were improperly located 1" aft. As a result, I also had to cut my drive shaft. I just get the feeling that FFR never assembled this car before sending me the kit....LOL. Anyway, I contacted helpful Dan at FFR, so hopefully he can help me resolve this issue. I have had a number of other issues, but I am not here to bash FFR as I like the car and believe they produce a good product. I just wish I did not have to waste so much time making things right.

Sincerely,
Rob

[riptide motorsport]

If its just a "bit" too high and low on the other, loosen the mounts and rock/rotate the engine over a tad...............see how that works out.

[DARKPT]

Search this and FFCARS.COM for solutions when these things come up, you'll save lots of time that way. Hopefully you can just tweak the motor over a bit to bring both pipes out the pre-cut holes. As for the engine being too far back, that could be a problem with the engine mounts being swapped left to right.

The good news is there are more than 500 kits out there with good documentation of the issues that have come up.

Dan

[Coupe2740]

I loosened the motor mounts and got it to rock a bit, so it helped with the headers, but they are still a little uneven. I still also need to figure out how to get the header off the foot box. To cut or not to cut, that is the question.

[DARKPT]

You might need to hook the engine hoist up to get enough movement to settle the header heights where you want them. Just pull up a little with the hoist and you can get it exactly right.

However, 302 headers should not be close to the footbox. Are you sure you don't have the motor mounts swapped side to side? This is what mine looks like (same motor).

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4112/5056575685_befaf7c58d_z.jpg

[skullandbones]

I have a roadster but thought I had a header issue like you discribe. However, after I "encouraged" the block to move a little with a long 2x4, it evened out. I found that my headers are asymetrical with the driver's being 21 7/8 in and the passenger side 19 3/4 in (4 tube). The initial observation I made was that it was "way off". But a little off on one side really affects the other side in the opposite way. A little adjustment in any direction can change everything (sort of like aligning the front end). After a lot of time and adjustment it seems to be OK.

Also, I am not sure if you said you measured your mounts referenced to another known point on the frame (apologies if you have). If you haven't done that, you should and then check with a coupe guy to compare. I think that would really be the place to start and then, of course, make sure the motor mounts are installed correctly. It is so easy to get them wrong. BTH, I had one motor mount built in Brazil and the other one in China (not from FFR) but just to say you can't take anything for granted anymore. It would be interesting to know if your mounts are welded up in the wrong place. Let us know the results. Thanks, WEK.

[tirod]

I asked this at TOS and you can reverse the mounts - it moves the engine 1 1/2" forward or back. If it's done "incorrectly," the driveshaft is too short - FF5 intends the engine to go toward the back.

Yes. there is a significant difference kit vs. factory production car. It comes down to the whole purpose of the kit - it's a bit of a blank canvas, as so many different builders install things with their view. A case of many cooks, so to speak, where a factory has one overall management view, to assemble it in the least amount of time and hassle. They have mass production on their side, a staff of engineers and assembly guru's, plus decades of experience and background. They can and do control production to +/- .015 in a lot of areas, and their suppliers know they will be checked against the spec blueprint on every shipment every time. No mercy on failure.

Part house inventory - I work there, not so much. I see variance on a daily basis, and the public's working knowledge of cars (including mine,) is less than sufficient, even with years of experience or a technical education. We don't know the answers, we have to develop a successful method of discovering the problem and then applying a solution. It really becomes a forensics lab project to discover what the factory won't tell you - how things work. It's proprietary, you know. They would just as well have you a captive customer at the dealership.

Actually, glitches in fit up of a kit are normal. If it went together with no hassles at all, most of the builders here would wonder what went wrong! Nobody has one go together with no problems whatsoever - there are too many complicated systems to get to mesh together for that to happen. Even the factory doesn't - we recognize the more obvious screw ups as Technical Service Bulletins, or massive recalls. Things don't just fall together for them, either. The 1983 Corvette is just one example - there are none. Things went so badly they canceled production that year.

It's the completed kit that does make it on the road which becomes another example of overcoming adversity. FF5 tries to help all along, but it's not Lego. It's assembling a machine that has dynamic results, something more than inserting Tab A into Slot B.

[Jacob McCrea]

For another photo of how the headers will fit vis-a-vis the footbox, you can also check out the photos in post #18 in this thread. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?2324-Frame-Mods-to-Type-65-Coupe

That is a 302 block sitting there in the pictures, with new Energy Suspension engine and transmission mounts. I still have a bare frame and would be happy to take some measurements for the sake of comparison, and to rule out a problem with where the mounting tabs/ "U" brackets are welded to the 4" round tubes. Just let me know.

[willy]

I had the same thing, I just put a couple of spacers on the engine mount till it sat right will not take much 1/4" spacer is about a 1" at the end of the header. One problem I do have is the drives side is to close the the corner foot box ( just barely touchs it) and I get some vibration from it will have to fix that this winter.

[Mark Dougherty]

this is a problem on many of the coupes.
the good thing is that the ffr drive shaft is to long anyways.
ssssoooooooo
remove the engine mounts
disassemble remove the alighnment pins
reassemble and install on opposite side of the car
Left on right
and right on left.
you will think that they were made to be this way.
Has worked on
a half dozen coupes so far.
Later
mark D

before
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/66Fairlane/Chris%20Allen/IMAG0948.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/66Fairlane/Chris%20Allen/IMAG0949.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/66Fairlane/Chris%20Allen/IMAG0951.jpg

[Mark Dougherty]

after
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/66Fairlane/Chris%20Allen/IMAG0980.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/66Fairlane/Chris%20Allen/IMAG0981.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/66Fairlane/Chris%20Allen/IMAG0986.jpg

[kiki231]

DarkPT -- Just a newby comment here- but i cannot flip my mounts without a) re-drilling the frame brackets, or b) disassembling the mount itself. Either is doable, but it stems as a result of fab errors as opposed to monkey (mine) errors.

Mark D. above, I see you prefer to the dissaembling -- which is the wiser choice-- however-- can you tell me which way the "angled" part of the mount points on the driver side of your coupe? -- this would save me a headache

[STLMARSHALL]

I am not sure what I did wrong, but here is a pic of my driver side header clearance right out of the box. No flipping necessary. While I had this clearance on the header, the ends of the header was only about 1.5" from the corner of the footbox.

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/DSC02355.jpg

[Stengun]

Howdy,

If you need more clearance all you have to do is to swap the mounts from side to side.

That's what is did on my Spyder and it moved the engine forward about 1 1/2".

If you're using an IRS your driveshaft will be long enough. Not sure about a live axle.

One thing to remember about building a kit car is...........

"Everything fits..... almost!". ( I stole this from someone. Not sure who. )

Paul