Aftermarket 818 body kit?

[Doc_FFR]

I am willing to accept the fact that to meet the target budget and follow the goal of a paint-free product certain compromises must be made to the final body style. However, since I never planned on leaving my 818 without paint and really want this car to be exceptionally beautiful, I wonder if any of the more creative or skilled members of the community would be interested in a business proposition.

1) The 818 is being designed as a "swatch watch" accepting multiple body styles.
2) Trying to be as polite as possible here, but there seems to be a demand for an alternate body style
3) FFR will never be able to satisfy everyone's desires for a body style
4) Some people have the money to spend on a product that is a little more exclusive and "intense"
5) FFR makes great driving cars.

So the proposal is this:
Is there anyone out there interested in designing and selling an alternate body style for the 818?

Are the other members of the community that would be interested in such a product?

[Niburu]

many of us are hopimg someone picks up the Rodney O's or Vman's designs

[Kalstar]

I am all for two of three bodies that are "pop on, pop off" hanging from hoist straps in my garage. Maybe a hardtop today, a roadster tomorrow and mybe a GTS for the weekend. With an entrance price of 10K, a few extra bodies to swap around at 5K each is a bargin in my book.

[D2W]

I too hope this happens as the current renderings leave me dissapointed. I'm all for the original design idea, but what original design isn't going to look dated in a few years. If I was to take on this project I would be thinking a modern version of a Lamborghini Muira, a Lancia Stratos, or an Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 Stradale. Updated enough not to be an exact replica but still capture the artwork of the originals. Something that makes an individual long for the car like people do for the Cobra. I'm personnally not at all excited for a slammed and ducted MR2.

[slopoke]

I would love to have Rodney's AND V-Man7's designs (one of each) in my garage! ... albeit I'd like to see them a little longer (10 in) and wider (6 in) for comfort reasons. well laid out dash, roll up windows, and a seat you can actually slide back and forth, storage space. It just takes time and money. oh ... and don't forget HVAC for the coupe.That's just me, but I'm sure there are quite a few others who would like something like that also. I'd bet even money that there would be a solid niche for aftermarket bodywork .... nothing wrong with what's being done right now by FFR, just looking ahead

[riptide motorsport]

Mr Bruce has done it with the C0bra side of the ffr cars,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nobody has stepped up and bought any from him................just like the Edsel.

[Zodiac]

I would love something with a more aggressive body styling. front bumper, doors/side vents, and front light. And a hard top as well as power windows. If someone makes it I would be very interested as it would be nice to have be my daily driver. But I don't know how to fabricate everything and depending on the price will be what makes people decide as well.

[timmy318]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IljyDTprr-w

What about something like this, maybe not these particular body styles but something along this where the owner has the ability to completely change the body style of his or her car in a matter of hours or less......

[Doc_FFR]

Mr Bruce has done it with the C0bra side of the ffr cars,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nobody has stepped up and bought any from him................just like the Edsel.

Who is this Mr Bruce, and what is he selling?

[Doc_FFR]

Who is this Mr Bruce, and what is he selling?

Nevermind, looked up Mr. Bruce, not interested.

I think people are taking this swatch watch thing a little too literally. The point isn't being able to be able to change body styles like you'd change a pair of pants. It's seeing knowing that the options are corduroy or canvas and outsourcing it to a guy who makes it from leather so you look like a rock star.

[shinn497]

Wasn't there a thread or custom bodywork?

[RM1SepEx]

can't find mr bruce body... link please

[Niburu]

I wonder if FFR would be willing to do like they do with the 33 Hot Rod and eventually offer it in a Phase I build without the body?
Or have a third party licensed/approved bodies?

[Xusia]

I really liked that video. That's a great idea, but I agree that's probably a bit far removed from FFR's goals. Still, it would be nice if it could happen...

[D2W]

can't find mr bruce body... link please

Bruce Chervenak, a master in fiberglass work. Has built a 289 FIA body to fit FFR chassis, which I think he has sold at least one. I also believe he built a version of the Daytona Coupe to fit on FFR's roadster chassis. He also builds a killer reproduction of Bill Thomas's Cheetah with his own frame using C4 corvette running gear. I think he basically works off of photos for his builds so they aren't perfectly accurate dimensionally but if you've seen his work it is that much more incredible what he accomplishes.

[Jacob McCrea]

Wow, small world. I didn't make the connection until now, but I am almost certain that my girlfriend's uncle owns the prototype of Mr. Bruce's Cheetah replica and built the tube chassis for him. I'll have to ask the next time I see him.

[Doc_FFR]

Drop him a line and see if he's interested in doing something awesome for the 818.

[Vman7]

Doc, I have been thinking about doing an aftermarket body, but just thinking about it. I don't really have the money or a place to make it happen. If I did I would highly consider it.

[Vman7]

Wasn't there a thread or custom bodywork?

Are you talking about the threads I did or maybe FFR-ADV on which some ideas were put out on possible future mod.s?

[tirod]

A lot of this is exactly the same as in the watch world. Everyone copies the major money and power design, because that's what sells. Nobody much wants to copy something they haven't seen repeatedly in the Robb Report, or Architectural Digest, or whatever power and money magazine that the high tier makers advertise in. If it's not exclusively expensive and outrageously unobtainable, it's commonness kills off much interest in emulation. Nobody much copies Timex, they just use one.

Back to car designs - who closed the plant in 1968 and had to walk away? The affordable CS company. Ferrari kept going. Once the originals became collectible and even unobtainable to the average guy, THEN the kits started pouring out.

That's why you see so many Rolex Submariner copies, and why you see so many roadster emulators. It's doesn't mean they are really that much an artistic masterpiece. Style is in the eye of the beholder, and what we connect to emotionally when we see a design is much more than which way a curve twists.

For example, I've rarely read a disparaging comment on the Daytona Coupe styling. If anything, break down the features, and you can trace dozens of hot road cars styling points back to it. Yet, not too many build one, it's all about the roadster. Where did the roadster body come from? AC Ace, which the Brits copied from who? 1950s Ferrari Barchetta. Ironic? They got run off the GT championship by a second generation copy of their own artwork. Emulation of the hot car.

New original designs have to stand on their own. What's being said here is "Make it look like some older car that had performance." In reality, the 818 hasn't had a chance to even develop a performance reputation. Because it lacks that emotional connection, people are criticizing it. So was the Daytona Coupe, NIH and strange styling had it badly under appreciated - until it ran.

And since it ran, and ran well, and ran off and left everyone, including some major hot prototypes, real racing stuff with no street sales potential at all, it made it's reputation. So everyone looks at it and says, ok, hot car, just like they did the roadster.

Give it some time. The 818 will develop it's reputation, directly linked to who actually builds one and then shows up at Run 'n Guns, drag strips, etc. It's going to do pretty well, you can see that in the hp to weight, size, and handling. I suspect all the intense interest in the Subaru WRX stuff already out there will make it a serious autocross contender right up front - the same way the 94 5.0 drivetrain does for the Roadster. While a bit tame in a Mustang, it's a competitor on the track.

This thing hasn't even turned a wheel yet, the desire to have it be a winner is genuine. I don't think it would be as good if it looked like some other old hot car - just like a quartz copy of a Rolex made in Taiwan isn't as good as the real thing. Better it stand on it's own merit - one that the future builders are entirely responsible for creating, rather than riding the coattails of some obscure Euro design most people have never seen. At least it's honest.

[JRL]

After market body - not likely. The cost would be prohibitive - the market tiny. Maybe an add on or simple panel swap but not a full blown body.

[Doc_FFR]

This thing hasn't even turned a wheel yet, the desire to have it be a winner is genuine. I don't think it would be as good if it looked like some other old hot car - just like a quartz copy of a Rolex made in Taiwan isn't as good as the real thing. Better it stand on it's own merit - one that the future builders are entirely responsible for creating, rather than riding the coattails of some obscure Euro design most people have never seen. At least it's honest.

I'm sure there are some who are hoping for a recreation of a classic, but they are in the minority. This thread isn't about trying to copy anything. The goal is come up with something new/beautiful/exotic/etc for those who want to spend a little extra.

[Doc_FFR]

After market body - not likely. The cost would be prohibitive - the market tiny. Maybe an add on or simple panel swap but not a full blown body.

You are probably right. The cost for a new front fender in fiberglass and maybe some side accents should be doable to manufacture on a small scale and may have a wider audience.

Any takers?

[carbon fiber]

this is what i'm doing for the gtm right now. with the low production numbers, i wouldn't do it if it weren't for wanting one myself. the cost of development and production of molds wouldn't be worth it unless you could sell a certain number of them. the best bet is to find someone in the community that is building one themselves and would be willing to go through the process. vman7 seemed interested. maybe later after there are certain number in production thing would be more realistic. not trying to be negative at all, i liked alot of the entries better than what was chosen for production and would like to see a more radical design also.

[Niburu]

my guess is a front fascia replacement would be a hot seller

[carbon fiber]

just the front clip alone would make alot of difference. maybe front and rear clip kit.

[Rockraven]

Modifying an existing front bumper kit shouldn't be too hard. Cut off the original below the headlights and install a new one. The seam would look more like a factory car as well.

11246

[Kwizatz-haderah]

Doc, I have been thinking about doing an aftermarket body, but just thinking about it. I don't really have the money or a place to make it happen. If I did I would highly consider it.


Your designs are fantastic, I'd be willing to invest to make this happen and am sure others would as well. Let me know if I can help.

[Kwizatz-haderah]

So the proposal is this:

Are the other members of the community that would be interested in such a product?[/SIZE][/I][/B]


Yes!

[Rockraven]

I'd pay a further 3-5 grand for Vman's body.

That came out wrong.

[Rockraven]

How would one go about this? Would FFR freely give out their data to allow an aftermarket upstart create new bodies? What would a license agreement cost? I do have (limited) experience in fiberglass boat molding, and I also have some capital to possibly start this up. Another option is to take the design and all measurement data and outsource to a company that can expertly mold up a gelcoat body.

[carbon fiber]

you'll need a car in hand to do it. there are too many variables to try to do it without the car in person for fitting. as long as the panels are this dramatically different from what ffr produces, i don't see any legal issues. (7 changes rule) it would only help ffr sell cars to have more options for the builders.

[Rockraven]

Wouldn't it be to FFR's benefit to have a company with a body kit available at launch of the 818, or soon after?

[Silvertop]

Wouldn't it be to FFR's benefit to have a company with a body kit available at launch of the 818, or soon after?

It seems to me that FFR's idea was to create a "swatch-watch" car that would ultimately have several bodies available to fit the same chassis -- bodies that THEY would design and offer for sale themselves. It seems unlikely to me that they would want to encourage some other maker to compete directly with them in regard to those other body styles.

Aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves? The car isn't even launched yet. We don't really even know for sure what the final shape of Body #1 will be. That will become clear in November. I know, it's fun to talk and speculate........

[carbon fiber]

the way i understand it, that's one of the reasons ffr started this forum was for vendors (of aftermarket products for ffr cars) to have an affordable platform to advertise. i'm glad they did, and i'd already be advertising here myself but i've bitten a larger chunk off and decided to do an exterior remodel of the gtm in addition to the interior. having different options with regard to asthetics should only strengthen sales for ffr. i've been on the "other" forum for a while now, and i've talked to alot of people in person that would have bought the gtm if it weren't for the dated styling/amount of bodywork issue. ffr shouldn't take offense to this either, as you are never going to satisfy everyone's desires with one style. the more options the better.

[D2W]

the way i understand it, that's one of the reasons ffr started this forum was for vendors (of aftermarket products for ffr cars) to have an affordable platform to advertise. i'm glad they did, and i'd already be advertising here myself but i've bitten a larger chunk off and decided to do an exterior remodel of the gtm in addition to the interior. having different options with regard to asthetics should only strengthen sales for ffr. i've been on the "other" forum for a while now, and i've talked to alot of people in person that would have bought the gtm if it weren't for the dated styling/amount of bodywork issue. ffr shouldn't take offense to this either, as you are never going to satisfy everyone's desires with one style. the more options the better.

So if you are already have experience with the GTM you know what it would take to make a replacement body for the 818. If you were to build/sell a coupe with roll up windows, ect. what would you sell it for (ballpark)?

[carbon fiber]

i'm neck deep with this project, and i wouldn't have done this much for such a low production car if i hadn't desired it myself. there seems to be some people here that are interested and maybe some to invest in such a project, if there is someone capable of doing it. it wouldn't be cheap if you're talking about totally new body with its own doors/windows/windshield etc. if it was based off the 818 body with mods that don't recreate these items, alot cheaper. i'm not interested in doing it but i would love to see it. i think it's a cool platform/driveline, just not a fan of the styling.

[shinn497]

I would if I had the money.

So tell me, what is the process of designing your own molds and how much would you estimate the manufacturing costs to be?

[carbon fiber]

cut/reshape with foam/glass over foam(i use epoxy resins here, they don't eat the foam)/finish bodywork to finish paint quality/make molds off of each separate panel. the hardest part is the design/shaping and getting an exact shape on both sides that match. i use contour guages/templates/measurements from preset points to acheive this. making the molds is a fairly easy process, there's no artistic skill involved. as far as cost, it goes back to labor/man hours and if it's done by someone in the community who's making it and not as concerned about the man hours. $15k maybe less if you discount part of the labor due to desire!

[shinn497]

Some of the design winners (nouphone and Rodney) made 3d/CAD models. Is there a way that they could be directly converted to a mold? This might eliminate the problem of designing the mold.

[carbon fiber]

you would actually make the plug (actual shape) and then pull molds from that. the problem is making it fit the ffr chassis particulars without real world physical fittment. this would also involve having or creating the cad files for the chassis. working everything out on cad files and it actually working together (chassis/body) would be difficult and expensive. even ffr has done the body the old fashioned way, by taking the chassis and manually building the body to fit. at this time it's still the easier way to do it.

[CarbonTuner]

I am defiantly interested in making some custom body parts for the 818 when it’s available!!

I saw found factory five about 3 months ago, then with a heavy lurking ear at the Pittsburgh Cars and Coffee I found a member of the club had one. Don’t have a pic but it’s a nice dark blue. I was really liking it until I found it uses alot of parts from a vett, and I am not into them.. Then, then guy says you should see the 818...

When searching online I found all the entries for the artist sketches and was loving it. Plus I like the platform much better.

As of now I drive a 2006 Supercharged Lotus Elise, which is very close to the target car for the 818. I think maybe in the future I will be building an 818, just so I can completely build my own machine.


I'd need the orginal parts to base it off or if you had alot to invest we could do something insane, wthier way the body will be better off carbon fiber which is what mine will be made of if I ever do get to build it.


Still looking in to the suggested drive train, just so many options!!

Anyhow this is my first post, cool to be here!

Donnie

[Niburu]

That was a GTM you saw, and whats wrong with using 'Vette parts?

[CarbonTuner]

Meh my mom drives a vette, Im a ford tough man, the list goes on and on. The GTM is just not my style... But I do love it'