Considering a change to the site regarding pics.

[David Hodgkins]

Greetings all,

I've had a member send me a PM asking why there are no pics that show up when a non-member visits the site. I'm considering changing the forum so that pics are viewable to visitors as well as members.

I told the member who contacted me that it is the default if this (and most) forums to NOT show pics to non-members. This is done few a few reasons (I'm guessing):

As a way to encourage more signups.
To discourage non-members from downloading pics.

I'm thinking of changing the default to allow pics to show up to all visitors. This presents a problem for selling banner space because it will be harder to convince people to sign up. Lower member numbers will have an impact on vendors willing to sign on.

I'd like to have your input, and I'd like to hear from the vendors. Do you think fewer folks will sign up if they can see all the pics they want without becoming a member. As a vendor (or potential vendor) would this impact your decision to run a banner?

Let's hear what you have to say.

:)

[Bob Cowan]

I think pictures, videos, and other important stuff should be members only.

[RM1SepEx]

Do what is best for the forum and it's members. Since its better to sell banner space to limit pictures to members only, lets keep it that way...

[edwardb]

Have to agree. Pictures to members only. It's free and easy to join.

[kabacj]

Guys, I asked David to raise this issue.

Since the factory five forum is here to educate folks about the factory five product range not make money by selling adds or collect members again to sell adds why would we want limit who can see the pictures?

The vendors who advertize on this site are targeting factory five owners not people who browse the site. I personally dont want to see adds to buy a toyota camry or athletes foot powder on the factory five banners.

If I post a picture on a thread and send it to a friend he cant see it IF I use the forum albums. IF I use any other public picture hosting or video hosting site non members can see the pictures.

So in fact what we are doing is rewarding folks that post their pictures elsewhere and don't build the content on the forum.

I don't think that is in the best interest of the forum its members or potential new members to discourage using the forum to collect albums of members work.

I needed to ask a friend who is not a member to validate this fact because as a member I assumed everybody could see the pictures I marked as public.

Just something to think about.

Appreciate the consideration.

John

[Ray]

Make the photos available to all. We are trying to grow the member base (and the FFR family.)

Ray

[Jacob McCrea]

I have no firsthand knowledge of the economics of selling banner space or operating a forum. I also have no problem with how the forum now works. I like the fact that I can check out some pictures without logging in, just as I did for years on ffcars.com while researching this project. I still have to log in to check out some; if it's that important to me I'll do just that. I don't think it's too much to ask folks who want to see photos to sign up and/or log in. It hasn't stopped Facebook from being popular.

With that said, I have a hard time believing that the mostly specialized vendors here, who sell to a highly specialized market, decide whether to advertise or not based on membership numbers. Also, like John said, I don't want to see Toyota Camry and athlete's foot powder ads on this forum. Nor do I want to see ads for bicycle parts in my face every time I do a Google search for something related to my other hobby. If the forum needs to change, or stay the same, to avoid that forgettable situation, by all means do what is necessary.

[skullandbones]

Could you give visitors the option of a guest login and let those people see the pics? That would give you another tracking device for potential members. Personally, I like it as it is but could live with it changed as well. Thanks, WEK.

[frankeeski]

While I can sympathize with those of you using the forum to host your pictures, I prefer to use another host for pictures and link them here. Pretty much every forum I frequent require you to log in to view pictures hosted by the forum itself. If you aren't happy with the format, host your pictures elsewhere. Having the pictures hosted here or somewhere else has nothing to do with any kind of loyalty to the forum. The forum is here as a tool for members but also to encourage visitors to get involved and join in. Keep things as they are.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Members only. Signing on takes what? Sixty seconds?



I'm thinking of changing the default to allow pics to show up to all visitors. This presents a problem for selling banner space because it will be harder to convince people to sign up. Lower member numbers will have an impact on vendors willing to sign on.

There you go David. I just looked and there are currently over 6,700 members. We all know that only a small percentage actually post on a regular basis. Most of those 6,700 have established membership so that they can view everything even though they may have no interest in participating in discussions. Vendors look at all 6,700 as their potential audience, not the <100 who post weekly. To the comment someone made; they are not ALL small niche advertisers (HP, Solidworks, GM Parts, Summit, Toyo,etc.). Without a strong member base those big players won't see value in participating. If it is open to all the forum administrators can not demonstrate potential exposure to advertisers.

Jeff

[AJ Roadster NJ]

Leave as is and require sign-in to see pictures. It is completely free to the user, takes virtually no time, and once complete their browser can 'remember' the site.

I've actually had this conversation with a gearhead friend, where I sent a link to this site to illustrate something and he came back with, "I can't see the pics, could you copy and paste everything into an email for me?"

I tried to be nice as I pointed out that he was asking me to do five minutes of tasks to save him 20 seconds.

AJ

[mrmustang]

Leave as is and require sign-in to see pictures. It is completely free to the user, takes virtually no time, and once complete their browser can 'remember' the site.

I know this is an ultra rare occurrence, but I agree 100% with what AJ just posted (at least the quoted piece :D )......

Picture hosting and permissions are a privilege offered to others who take the time to actually sign up for an account, it does not cost anything to sign up for an account here, I say leave the permissions as they are. Again, this is a free site.....


Bill S.

[LuckyWinner]

I also agree with AJ. All you have to do to be part of the FFR family is take a couple of seconds and sign up.

[David Hodgkins]

Thanks for letting me know yours thoughts guys.

I just wanted to chime in and say there are no plans to open advertizing to any and all comers. ALL vendors either have direct ties to the car build experience or FFR itself (HP for example). A huge impitus for creating the site was/is to encourage and promote the cottage industry surrounding the building of our cars. We certainly encourage you to check out and use the vendors on our site! I've used a large number of them myself.

Thanks again for the comments so far...

:)

[Kalstar]

Thanks for letting me know yours thoughts guys.

I just wanted to chime in and say there are no plans to open advertizing to any and all comers. ALL vendors either have direct ties to the car build experience or FFR itself (HP for example). A huge impitus for creating the site was/is to encourage and promote the cottage industry surrounding the building of our cars. We certainly encourage you to check out and use the vendors on our site! I've used a large number of them myself.

Thanks again for the comments so far...

:)

I agree with John. Open it up. Call a duck a duck, this site is here not only to help its members (ie the ablity to post questions and offer answers), it is also here to give F5R a bigger face and presence. I am 100% behind opening up all pics to possible consumers. I would however restrict any posting without a proper membership.

I am all for helping F5R sell a few more kits.

Jim

BTW isn't the sponsors ultra low $$/not a money maker for the site. I am sure the sponsors would not mind anyway.

[Indy14]

Members only. Doesn't take that long to become a member.

[code9]

If the goal of the forums is building a community around F5R cars/builds then the more open the better. If the goal is generating membership numbers then limit what non-members can see.

While it is easy to just sign up, its another barrier (do I trust the site, what password do/did I use, ...). Is there value in making my mom login to see build progress pics? In the end people who are doing (or like me thinking of doing) a build will join, be active, ... When I start my build I'll want any info I post to be widely available to maximize the value to others. So by making this forum more accessible you may actually attract more content thus more viewers/interest. That would do well by the community and the sponsors (more eyes = more clicks).

As Kalstar mentioned, posting must be for members only. That's a community hygiene thing to maintain the signal-to-noise ratio (remarkably high here I must say).

My 2c

[AJ Roadster NJ]

Is there value in making my mom login to see build progress pics?

Yes. The number of registered members, and the number of member visits as opposed to visitors, all make the site more valuable to advertisers. If we discount the little-guy advertisers here, and just think about the larger internet advertising picture, then making your mom sign in to see your build progress pictures isn't much, but if 3000 guys' moms sign in, that is significant.

My theory is that Dave has always been fair holding prices down as much as he can. If we make this website successful enough, maybe he'll start giving them away!! :cool: (My idea, I'm first in line...)

AJ

[code9]

On the sites I've managed and placed ads there was much more interest in impressions and SEO than membership numbers. More traffic = more eyes. The more value the site delivers, the more people will come/look/stay and the more valuable the site becomes -- to the community and advertisers and F5R.

[skullandbones]

Back again! As some members have voiced: any changes should meet the mission of the forum. If your actions align with the charter then go for it. But you need some way of measuring to see if the change was effective (achieved desired result or something else, maybe good maybe bad). If you can't measure it, you can't manage it! It's just impression or anecdotal. If you can't guage the effects of change, you should find a way before going forward. IMO, WEK.

[kabacj]

Hey guys. Thanks for considering the facts.

As some have said. I could post my pictures elsewhere. True. But that lowers the value of this site. Click on my avatar and Check out my albums (if you are a member of course ;). They are all on this site.

Its easy to join. True.

But the browsing user who shows up here might just get hooked into our hobby when they see what you all do. They might just say to themselves. Hey I can build my own car!

If you want to post. Sure you need to be a member as Kalstar and Code9 have said. That makes sense.

Thanks again. I just want to make this site better.

John

[xatudor]

Is it possible to enable a visitor to only view a predetermined number of pages with pictures and then block them viewing any more pages with pictures until they become a member? This gives a visitor the chance to see the quality of the forum and can decide if they wish to register.