Power Steering & Power Brakes?

[hrosenthal]

I am wondering if it is worthwhile to install power steering & brakes. I plan to drive the car often, but not as my primary mode of transportation. Do these add any value to such a small car?
Are there any special considerations I need to make if I choose to go with these options?
Thanks,
Howard

[riptide motorsport]

Not neccesarry but nice to have.

[jlfernan]

If I were to do it over, I would at least add power brakes. Manual steering is not that bad.



http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2561/jorgec.jpg (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=111)

[jakester888]

I am doing both.

Notes : The powerbooster will require you to make a cut to your frame to allow it to fit. There are simple ways around this without a welder as others have posted.

[MPTech]

I'm building mine with power brakes and steering, MUCH easier and cheaper to build it now than upgrade later.

[edwardb]

Widely debated topics, and "it depends" in both cases. What brakes are you installing on your build? If one of the OEM 2-wheel or 4-wheel disc varieties, power will make a nice difference and you will like it. If Wilwoods, and especially one of the upgraded versions, probably not necessary. But you may need to use some of the more exotic (and somewhat expensive) pads to get the braking you're looking for. Power steering not only makes it easier in the parking lot and just more civilized, it also allows you to dial in more caster for better centering and down-the-road stability. But many are very happy with the manual steering set-up. Have you driven a Roadster to see what it's like?

Since power brakes are much more difficult to install on a completed car, I installed vacuum power brakes using the Whitby kit during my build. I have Cobra 4-wheel discs with an SN95 pedal box. The brakes work very well, and I couldn't be happier with them. If I build another, it will also have power brakes from the start. I went with manual steering during my build, and after 1,200 miles (so far) this year, will be installing power steering this winter. The car is great to drive, but this will just make it better. Many add power steering. Never heard of anyone taking it out. Not super difficult to add to a completed car, but would have been easier and cheaper to add during the build.

Both add value to the car, in my opinion.

[skullandbones]

Edwardb's comment on "it depends" is very accurate. The use of the car has a lot to do with how you equip it. I backed into the decision to go with power steering as I originally thought about depowering the rack. But seeing several racer types give their reasons for using PS, I added the power pump with a Forte mount which sits low on the engine (I like the look). So far just moving it around a little, I think I made the right decision (able to add more caster for stability). I wanted to eventually go to a high performance braking system so I installed the Wilwood pedal set and will add the other components as I test the car. So far so good. Braking is a pretty critical aspect for these projects. So you should take your time and choose wisely. One poster suggested you drive a roadster if you get a chance. That would be a very good option to test the feel of the pedal. It's hard to make that choice empirically. Good luck, WEK.

[tirod]

The real decision is whether it's a street or track car. One thing to consider is that the originals did not have either. And those of us who remember driving cars in the 2,900 pound class - like a '66 Mustang - well, it depends there, too.

One of the complaints about manual steering it that it's hard to turn the wheel. Yes, it is, at a dead stop. You learn not to do that, get the car moving at even 2 mph and the car steers a lot better. It's really a matter of having different habits. You don't park where it's a tight parallel situation, or you are easily trapped in. Manual steering is a different skill set requiring more thoughtful placement of a parked car.

On the road at speed, really not much difference. If anything, it's a bit more stable because you can't twitch it quite as easily, again, you have to think ahead. If you're racing at speed, you are anyway, and a twitchy car on the freeway isn't all that much fun.

Brakes? Donor brakes designed for power assist are a package. Deleting the assist means the pedal ratio and actual hydraulic pressures the system was designed for will have to be made up by pressing the pedal harder. That hydraulic leverage may not happen until you are literally bracing yourself against the wheel to push down.

A manual brake system designed from the pedal up will have the correct pedal ratio, proper master cylinder diameter(s), and will achieve appropriate pressures at the caliper in a comfortable range of effort. Where we here complaints about brake systems is when parts from one and the other are mixed into a high effort, low output assembly with a unsatisfactory result. And that doesn't even touch on getting the right ratio or proportioning.

For resale, power will sell. For my build car, no thanks. It's a complication that doesn't need to be there (need being a very different thing for each of us.) I'm quite used to a car with no power steering and can get by without the extra plumbing and dead weight. Brakes? Same - a properly set up system doesn't need power, and that goes to having a dual master system with balance bar and minimum four piston caliper on every wheel.

In terms of relative driver effort, the power assist car will be an easier sell - but far from authentic, and it's certainly arguable that it's performance will be "superior." Goes to what the builder wants the car to do. And, it's not all about horsepower. You can achieve performance in other ways.

[edwardb]

The real decision is whether it's a street or track car. One thing to consider is that the originals did not have either. And those of us who remember driving cars in the 2,900 pound class - like a '66 Mustang - well, it depends there, too.

One of the complaints about manual steering it that it's hard to turn the wheel. Yes, it is, at a dead stop. You learn not to do that, get the car moving at even 2 mph and the car steers a lot better. It's really a matter of having different habits. You don't park where it's a tight parallel situation, or you are easily trapped in. Manual steering is a different skill set requiring more thoughtful placement of a parked car.

On the road at speed, really not much difference. If anything, it's a bit more stable because you can't twitch it quite as easily, again, you have to think ahead. If you're racing at speed, you are anyway, and a twitchy car on the freeway isn't all that much fun.

Brakes? Donor brakes designed for power assist are a package. Deleting the assist means the pedal ratio and actual hydraulic pressures the system was designed for will have to be made up by pressing the pedal harder. That hydraulic leverage may not happen until you are literally bracing yourself against the wheel to push down.

A manual brake system designed from the pedal up will have the correct pedal ratio, proper master cylinder diameter(s), and will achieve appropriate pressures at the caliper in a comfortable range of effort. Where we here complaints about brake systems is when parts from one and the other are mixed into a high effort, low output assembly with a unsatisfactory result. And that doesn't even touch on getting the right ratio or proportioning.

For resale, power will sell. For my build car, no thanks. It's a complication that doesn't need to be there (need being a very different thing for each of us.) I'm quite used to a car with no power steering and can get by without the extra plumbing and dead weight. Brakes? Same - a properly set up system doesn't need power, and that goes to having a dual master system with balance bar and minimum four piston caliper on every wheel.

In terms of relative driver effort, the power assist car will be an easier sell - but far from authentic, and it's certainly arguable that it's performance will be "superior." Goes to what the builder wants the car to do. And, it's not all about horsepower. You can achieve performance in other ways.

All sounds good I guess. But one question about your power steering comments. Theory or from experience? I could have written nearly every bit of this (and I kind of did...) before I completed my Mk3 build. Now that I have completed it and driven for nearly one season, my one mistake was not putting in power steering. I'm going to fix that this winter. These cars are far from the authentic (good thing in many cases) and this modern touch will just make it more fun to drive. I would encourage the OP to check. Many have voiced the same thing. Thought they would like the car w/o power steering, and then added it later.

I agree completely with your points about power brakes. Brakes that were designed with power assist in mind work best with it. Those that aren't (Wilwoods, etc.) should be OK without.

[QSL]

Keep in mind steering also depends on tire size, allignment and steering rack. We are running the stock rack from the mk4 kit and 275 tires in the front and i find the steering to be extremely easy. One hand driving and parking very doable. Just depends on setup and components.

[CraigS]

I won't even consider manual steering. My MkI came w/ a depowered mustang rack. That was horrible and I soon powered it up only to learn that it was too quick for me on the street. I then installed a Breeze 3.0 turns PS rack and was happy enough w/ it to do the same in my mkII. The MkII came w/ an FFR manual rack and i was interested to try it. I drove it for a couple months w/ reduced caster to make it lighter but soon did PS. OTOH, my manual brakes are fine even though it took a long time to get them there.

[Jeff Kleiner]

If you have any illusions of doing track time or autocrossing build it with power steering. You can't really hustle the car without. Trust me on this :)

Jeff

[Bill_VA]

Absolutely go with power steering, not so much for the brakes. I went for 3 years with a manual rack before converting, best improvement I've ever made to the car.

[LuckyWinner]

Can anyone give me a parts and price list of how they went to power steering?

[Bill_VA]

There are less expensive ways of getting power steering, but this is how I did it, you can read more about it here (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189604). Here are some other solutions (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/264547-power-steering-show-me-your-setup.html) too.

http://www.humtech.com/4bill/IMG_0776a.jpg

http://www.humtech.com/4bill/IMG_0773a.jpg

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hey Lucky!
Bill showed you a high end setup (and a beautifully executed one at that!), now I'll detail the other end of the spectrum which can be done for under $400 using OEM components along with aftermarket mounting hardware and plumbing.

Steering rack; choose one:
---Autozone #64163; 2.25 turns lock to lock $75+$18 core =$93
---Autozone #6439; 2.5 turns lock to lock $75+$18 core =$93
---Autozone #6406; 3.0 turns lock to lock $54+$20 core =$74

Power steering pump:
---Autozone #6383 with reservior $45+$24 core =$79

Mounting bracket and pulley:
---CFR Performance bracket #HZ-4306 $55
---CFR Performance pulley #HZ-02011 $40

Hoses and fittings:
---1) Breeze #70516 P/S rack AN adapters $26.00
---1) Breeze #21514 P/S pump AN adapter $13.00
---2) Breeze #21523 Straight AN hose ends $15.00
---1) Breeze #21524 90 degree AN hose end $17.50
---4 FT. Breeze #21102 Braided Teflon hose $19.60

Do a little searching on this as well as the other forum and you'll turn up plenty of discussion on the power steering topic, much of it I've participated in. For a street car I recommend the 3.0 rack. If you prefer a little less assist you can trim the relief spring until you get to the desired level then forget about it. I use my car on the track a lot and run the quick 2.25 rack in conjunction with an adjustable Heidts valve to regulate the amount of assist (full boost on the track, reduced on the street). If you go this route the valve and additional plumbing will run in the neighborhood of $150.

Good luck,
Jeff

[LuckyWinner]

Thanks Jeff. Still trying to figure out if I want to do it.

[tirod]

I'm open to listening about power steering. One major difference over the years is front tire size and construction - a G70 bias tire and a 265/50-17 dry season radial aren't the same thing.

Steering rack turns and driver positioning are another. Being able to flick the wheel 90 degrees on a track to handle most of the turns, vs shuffling it more, no question. On the street, tho, it's not about intense cornering as much. Plus, the effort can be optimized to some degree, although it is a matter of tradeoffs.

Perceptions also have a part - for every track roadster with power steering today, there were 100,000 street cars without, and the owners had no problem with it. But - they didn't have wheel alignments maximized for cornering to the detriment of just driving down main. Caster, camber, the Ackerman were all set up for non powered steering. If anything, the track car optimizes the opposite, and the levels rise.

It's a valid point - how the AC was designed in those days, on bias ply tires, originally with a 6 cylinder on English country roads, is different than today's V8 equipped, radial shod cars on an autocourse. That doesn't mean a car meant for 85% street use needs to be set up for the Mulsanne straight, either. Not do many use 5-9 degrees of caster on the street. I suspect if they do, power steering is needed. NASCAR does.

I ran my '66 with about 2 1/2 degrees of caster and set of Shelby quick steering arms on a manual box and G70 radials. Parked, it was no joy, but not impossible. Just get it rolling and it lightens up. No problem at 70 - but that was the standard set of expectations for the majority of drivers in the day, and a lot of smaller sports cars never used it. Power steering was considered dead weight in racing, and a luxury car item. But, things can change.

I certainly tolerate it now - it would be even better if it powered a hydraulic winch!

[Avalanche325]

Here are my thoughts and ramblings. I am building, not driving, so probably not even 2 cents worth:

Steering.
One thing that I have learned recently is the difference in Fox and SN95 racks. I asked on the forums and FFR and no one seemed to know if there was any real differance performance -wise. I found an good article about the differances. The pinion on the fox is straght cut vs hielical on the SN95. This makes for more precise gear engagement. The spool valve and torsion bar are also greatly improved. This provides better and heavier feel. The later SN95s are supposed to be the better than early SN95. The 00 Cobra R racks are the best but pretty much unobtainable. 300 Cobra Rs and 300 and a few spare (long gone) racks. AGR performance does make the Cobra R version, but it is pricey. They also make the SN95 version. I know that this is a little OT, but thought it might help. I am going powered with the regular SN95 rack from AGR which is $279. The Cobra R one is $425. I have seen several threads of twitchy power steering, etc. Most of those that I have read also include getting a rebuilt fox rack from AutoZone, etc.

I already have the required adapter. That is a consideration also.

As far as brakes:
I am doing manual Wilwood brakes. I was advised that they could be like an on / off switch powered. I have had a modern Alfa Romeo, lived over seas, that had very touchy brakes. It made heel-toe hard to modulate. Every time someone else drove that car, they would almost put you through the windshield on the first couple stops. So I understand that problem. But, I reserve the right to put power on later. The MKI that I drove had stock unpowered donor brakes. If I were using Mustang brakes, power would be manditory. I drove a 66 Mustang fastback for 10 years with manual front disks. They felt WAY better than the donor brakes on the FFR.

[buildit]

Did both, love both, and during the build is the time to do both!

[avgjoe]

On the pwer steering debate, I've read about waaaay more people changing to power than those who change to manual steering. Proof's in the pudding but's also a matter of personal taste and build philosophy.

[accobra66]

The real decision is whether it's a street or track car. One thing to consider is that the originals did not have either. And those of us who remember driving cars in the 2,900 pound class - like a '66 Mustang - well, it depends there, too.

One of the complaints about manual steering it that it's hard to turn the wheel. Yes, it is, at a dead stop. You learn not to do that, get the car moving at even 2 mph and the car steers a lot better. It's really a matter of having different habits. You don't park where it's a tight parallel situation, or you are easily trapped in. Manual steering is a different skill set requiring more thoughtful placement of a parked car.

On the road at speed, really not much difference. If anything, it's a bit more stable because you can't twitch it quite as easily, again, you have to think ahead. If you're racing at speed, you are anyway, and a twitchy car on the freeway isn't all that much fun.

Brakes? Donor brakes designed for power assist are a package. Deleting the assist means the pedal ratio and actual hydraulic pressures the system was designed for will have to be made up by pressing the pedal harder. That hydraulic leverage may not happen until you are literally bracing yourself against the wheel to push down.

A manual brake system designed from the pedal up will have the correct pedal ratio, proper master cylinder diameter(s), and will achieve appropriate pressures at the caliper in a comfortable range of effort. Where we here complaints about brake systems is when parts from one and the other are mixed into a high effort, low output assembly with a unsatisfactory result. And that doesn't even touch on getting the right ratio or proportioning.

For resale, power will sell. For my build car, no thanks. It's a complication that doesn't need to be there (need being a very different thing for each of us.) I'm quite used to a car with no power steering and can get by without the extra plumbing and dead weight. Brakes? Same - a properly set up system doesn't need power, and that goes to having a dual master system with balance bar and minimum four piston caliper on every wheel.

In terms of relative driver effort, the power assist car will be an easier sell - but far from authentic, and it's certainly arguable that it's performance will be "superior." Goes to what the builder wants the car to do. And, it's not all about horsepower. You can achieve performance in other ways.

Very nicely explained, thank you.

[Captainmelo]

Neither is needed, but I'd do brakes before steering.

[Bobasaurus]

Do both. I still drive a 1968 Mustang without either option and I absolutely love the power options in the roadster in contrast to the Mustang. Just lay my foot on the brake in the roadster and quickly modulate your stopping power, park with ease anywhere, run more caster for a little more stability and self centering with power steering. I put a donor Mustang hydroboost system in my MKIII.

Bobby

[tirod]

I'll suggest on the one hand that the way we think it was in the day has several coats of warm fuzzy on it to sweeten it up. And I agree - my '66 notchback with manual discs and rear drums was no problem braking.

Fast forward to today, nothing I own is manual, and I suspect a lot of guys building them have more than a few years experience driving. In other words, they don't like to work hard at it the way we did younger. And again, those cars were set up for it.

Delete the power from the donor system and that's the real problem. It was biased with the extra leverage, take it away and it's worse than a factory manual setup. Don't blame the system when it's the engineer making the changes and coming up with unintended consequences.

Somewhat off topic case in point - guy walks in and wants about 6" of spacers to extend his fan forward, his F150 is overheating. Why? He put a 3" body lift kit on it, and the radiator shroud had to come off. Unintended consequence is air now short circuits around the core and overheats. I had to explain extending the fan was no cure, it would lever the bearing and fail, taking out the core in the process. He just needed to build an new offset shroud. And I did say that putting tires on that big was the whole problem. If tires don't fit, they are wrong for the vehicle.

Each change away from a factory engineered system means living with the unintended consequences - the ones somebody didn't figure out ahead of time. So, delete power from a P/S rack, you lose mechanical advantage the hydraulic system provided. No wonder it steers hard. Same for the brakes. If you use a p/s system and delete the power, no one to blame but the project engineer for the results.

That's why the older non power cars worked - the mechanical leverages were engineered from day one, and they even did that with drum brakes. Not the best circumstances, but even young girls could drive a car at 70mph on the Interstate and live to tell the story another day. :)

The key item I keep hearing in connection with "I added it back" is that it was deleted from the original parts. You don't need to if the parts are selected properly - there's plenty of track cars with dual master brake systems that work quite well, as are non power steering systems. Understand the entire setup and use what you need to get the desired results. High caster setups with high leverage on a car destined to turn quickly just might be a disadvantage without power, sure. Change things up to a system with compatible features, and then the other advantages become available, like more horsepower, lighter weight, and more reliability.

Set your target, then design to that goal as the engineer. If you don't get the results you wanted, then it's apparent something was misunderstood in the application. If life teaches us anything, it's learn from our mistakes. The G70's were too big, I had to roll the fenders and live with sidewall cuts.

[edwardb]

Delete power from a P/S rack, you lose mechanical advantage the hydraulic system provided. No wonder it steers hard.

On the surface, this is a correct statement. FFR, in their donor instructions, describe converting a donor PS rack to a non-powered version. Most agree this is universally a bad idea, and you will find multiple examples of guys not being happy with this setup.

But you are incorrect to suggest that the reason people are changing to power steering is because they are using de-powered PS racks, e.g. something not being used as originally designed or intended. The manual racks provided by FFR -- including the one on my Mk3 -- are purpose built by Unisteer (1) specifically for these cars, and (2) as a manual steering rack only. There are similar racks available from Flaming River, AGR, etc. Many are happy with this setup. Others, like me, prefer to change to power. But not because we are using a part for something it wasn't designed to do.

I've posted several times on this thread, and won't any more. Hopefully the OP learned there are no right or wrong answers to these PS and PB questions. Depends on your setup, depends on your intended use for the car, and depends on your personal preferences. What is right for one person may not be for another. We're not building historical reproductions here. The admission price to that game requires more zeros. We're building replicas -- modern tributes to a 50 year old classic. It's your car. Build it the way you want. And the beauty is that since it's your car and you built it, you can change it (and keep changing it) until you get it the way you really like it. Enjoy the process. I do.

[SStrong]

I learned to drive (in the 60's) in cars with manual steering. 7 or 8 turns of the steering wheel lock to lock. Oh, and the huge steering wheels. The manual brakes weren't so bad. But even with that steering ratio turning at low speed or from a stop was a pain. I don't choose to go back to that time. My wife is really insistent on power. My wife remembers her dad's 60's car with power steering took a lot of turns lock to lock. But for those that like manual steering and brakes, I'm happy for them.

[2thdoc]

I love PS/PB's. Did the Mustang Hydroboost. Didn't install a proportioning valve or shorten the spring in the pump to decrease the amount of "power" that was applied. Worst part was the numerous attempts at finding the corrrect fittings to make the hoses. Wouldn't change a thing. Drive it every day possible and have no bumpsteer issues and the brakes stop on a dime. That has been a few years ago on my MkIII so I am not sure what mods are available now. You won't regret going with PS/PB's.

[emac]

Over 1k with complete kit, manual brakes and steering. Brakes are fine, but I am considering PS, maybe fast Freddie's, over the winter. With my billboard tires, it can be a bear at times, and I think I would enjoy it more with lighter steering. Change tires? No way, billboards look too good!

Ernest

[mikiec]

I have been driving 2290 for 11 years and over 62K miles. I have never ever thought of going to PS and PB. Don't need it.

[tirod]

Older thread, but here's the point: maybe it's not about power steering or the need for it at all.

Are we dealing with a symptom of the modified mounting for the donor spindles? This may really be a discussion of SAI - spindle axis inclination. The F5 adapters mounted on the donor spindle result in an inclination of 18 degrees. The kit, or the new spindles, about 9.

If you increase the inclination, the tip of the spindle begins traveling in a steeper arc as it moves off center, and that arc points down. We have to push the tire into the pavement and lever the control arms up to turn the wheel. Factory cars tend to run SAI in the 6-10 degree range, I vaguely remember the 66 Mustang may have been about 7. Even with a Shelby quick steer kit, it was no bear on the road (while you were moving. ) Parked, just leave room to move, don't try to spin the tire on the contact patch. Roll it.

I'm bringing it up because some do have higher steering effort and the real cause needs to be recognized - adapted donor spindles. If somebody wants to add pumps and stuff after that, well, more power to them. :)

[Nelff]

One minor point about SN95 racks. The 03-04 Cobra racks were a bit quicker if I remember correctly. I put one on my '96 Cobra and liked the feel more than the OEM one.

[David]

Power steering and brakes rock. No way I'd build a car without it. Meal is fine and some prefer it. I just like the ease of having it, and Jeff is correct... You at least need the PS for effective autocross and track work.

David

[trublue]

I did a 2000 Mustang GT donor build and used the OEM power steering and brakes with ABS with no mods. I use my MK3 only for cruising and after 5,000 miles I am completely satisfied. Easy to install and fun to drive.

[trublue]

Over 1k with complete kit, manual brakes and steering. Brakes are fine, but I am considering PS, maybe fast Freddie's, over the winter. With my billboard tires, it can be a bear at times, and I think I would enjoy it more with lighter steering. Change tires? No way, billboards look too good!

Ernest

What exactly are billboard tires?

[MPTech]

I had most of the donor parts, from a purchase (rack, pump, pulley, bracket, and hose).
I turned in the rack as a core and bought a remanufactured unit, because I didn't want to have to replace it after the build.
Spray painted the pump black (came out really nice and looks OEM).
Bought a CFR Performance pulley and bracket off of a forum member.
Called Mark Reynolds at Breeze and he set me up with all of the adapters, AN fittings, and hoses.
(Pretty much by-the-book with what Jeff laid out:

Steering rack;
---Autozone #6406; 3.0 turns lock to lock $54+$20 core =$74

Power steering pump:
---Autozone #6383 with reservior $45+$24 core =$79

Mounting bracket and pulley:
---CFR Performance bracket #HZ-4306 $55
---CFR Performance pulley #HZ-02011 $40

Hoses and fittings:
---1) Breeze #70516 P/S rack AN adapters $26.00
---1) Breeze #21514 P/S pump AN adapter $13.00
---2) Breeze #21523 Straight AN hose ends $15.00
---1) Breeze #21524 90 degree AN hose end $17.50
---4 FT. Breeze #21102 Braided Teflon hose $19.60

The only thing I'd change (and this is on my to-do list) is use flexible return Braided Stainless Steel hose (low pressure), because getting the high pressure hose over the pump nub fitting is a BEAR and I'm not happy with how it's secured.


I do have a question: I've seen some discussions talking about running a PS line cooler. When I looked at the donor setup from the Mustang, I don't see a cooler for the '94 setup (I do see a long piece of aluminum pipe, is that what it's for??)

[acth4347]

Yup. The 3ft tube shaped in a "U" is the cooler. I was going to use it on mine but the tow hooks on the four inch rails got in the way. I am going to use a Denali cooler from Summit instead.

Nice parts list, I am doing sumilar and using Mark for most of the fittings. Are you NOT running the Hydroboost for doing the brakes too? It didn't look like you had enough parts if you were.
Bill

[emac]

What exactly are billboard tires?

They are the bias ply racing only Goodyear tires.

[MPTech]

Bill, I'm running the '93 / '95 setup, with vacuum-boosted brakes (in hindsight, I wish I had run the Hydroboost setup, would have been simpler).

[ianhunter]

My car has components all supplied by Breeze as we have no donor Mustangs over here. I am happy with the steering, sure very heavy at parking speeds but OK on the move and, particularly on track, never think about it.


But the brakes need far to great a pedal pressure for me and I am not that confident with them on track. I don't think I could lock the wheels from 100 mph if I tried! I have standard Mustang/Thunderbird calipers and rotors with EBC yellowstuff pads.

Mark recommended the Whitby kit, but it is desigend for a standard Mustang pedal and I have a Breeze modified one. I am worried that of I fit the Whitby kit, I will be over assisted. Remanufacturing my pedal box with the body on is a non starter.


Half of me thinks that if the pedal pressure now is that high, the kit will be fine. The other half is worreid that if it is over assisted, then what do I do?There is no "adjustment" presumably?

Have tried to talk to Whitby, but have yet to get through and e-mails don't seem to be answered. Have you guys any thoughts?

Regards

Ian

[edwardb]

I have the Whitby kit on my Mk3 with SN95 pedal box and Cobra GT (PBR) brakes. Nothing fancy for pads. I was pleasantly surprised that the brakes are not grabby or feel at all overboosted. The vacuum assist is a great addition, but they still have decent modulation. I realize every setup is different, but for me they're perfect.