ECU tuning question from an old carb guy

[oldguy668]

I have a Coyote engine that has some issues. Ford tells me that if we don't use their stock intake setup, the engine will be flaky until it gets a new tune. I asked here on the forum and got a couple of member-recommended shops that can do the tuning work and I finally made a date to bring the car in for a tune. My question involves getting the tune into the ECU. The guy is telling me that I have to buy the scan/tune tool for $375. He tells me that once the tuner is used with an ECU, they become "married" and the tuner can't be used with another ECU. So, I can't borrow one and there is no "shop tuner". Am I getting hosed or is he on the level?

[skullandbones]

Too bad the experts haven't chimed in by now. I have heard that about the tuner being married to the ECU. I don't remember reading anything about that when researching this process (maybe that's something a vendor wouldn't advertise). I have read a lot. But the price of $375 sounds low. I still haven't made a decision on the type I want for my needs but if you invest in a wide band meter and the tuning hardware to connect to the ECU, I would estimate $600+. Most of the posters I have heard from are either people with turbos, superchargers, or medium to hard core racers. I consider the investment to be rather high for casual use but that's just me. I probably will get it after some other higher priority buys like scuba and telescope stuff. But if you want to go fast, you may find the investment well worth it. WEK.

[ClemsonS197]

On the new stuff, the tuner is married to the car. If you re-tune your ECU to stock, then you can get the maker to unlock it and marry it to another car, but then you'll have the same crummy tune issues you have now. I'm not a software expert, but your guy will enter the ECU serial number in the tuner. Then the software will look for that ECU number and when it's recognized it will allow you to modify the tune. If the ECU # and # entered don't match, you can't do anything. So he's correct telling you they are married.

SCT and Diablo are the popular tuners that I know, and I'd get whatever your local guy is comfortable with. I used an SCT X2 on my 06 Mustang and the tuner did great work. I believe the X3 is the newer version now and runs $375-400. I paid a little over $500 for the tuner and dyno tune from a local Atlanta shop.

Good luck.

[snakeboost]

On the new stuff, the tuner is married to the car. If you re-tune your ECU to stock, then you can get the maker to unlock it and marry it to another car, but then you'll have the same crummy tune issues you have now. I'm not a software expert, but your guy will enter the ECU serial number in the tuner. Then the software will look for that ECU number and when it's recognized it will allow you to modify the tune. If the ECU # and # entered don't match, you can't do anything. So he's correct telling you they are married.

SCT and Diablo are the popular tuners that I know, and I'd get whatever your local guy is comfortable with. I used an SCT X2 on my 06 Mustang and the tuner did great work. I believe the X3 is the newer version now and runs $375-400. I paid a little over $500 for the tuner and dyno tune from a local Atlanta shop.

Good luck.

Joe, Dez is the man in the area for this!

Steve

[Jester]

Hi Oldguy

Can you discribe what issues with the coyote so the rest of us can look out for the same thing?

Thx

[vnmsss]

I recently installed an Edelbrock Supercharger on a 2013 Mustang, and used an SCT X3tuner for the new tune. It was straightforward, and while it took a few steps and a couple of downloads from the website to import the new tune from my laptop, the tune uploaded well and the stock tune is stored in the unit. The SCT tuner I used also serves as a code reader, so that is helpful too....$375 seems reasonable.

Karen

[oldguy668]

Hi Oldguy

Can you discribe what issues with the coyote so the rest of us can look out for the same thing?

Thx

1. Throttle pedal is a little twitchy and non-linear. Very hard to maintain a low speed without looking like a bobble-head

2. Tends to stall at off-throttle, like slowing for a red light or stop sign. Mustangs have this problem and Ford has put out a couple of TSBs on it.

3. Runs raggedy until thoroughly warmed up and usually won't run over 4,000 rpm.

Ford says all of these things are a result of my not using the Mustang cold air box and duct. Like, dude, where the hell was I going to put it, on top of the hood? Anyway, I checked up on the guy whose going to fix it and he's the best in the area. I also am more comfortable with the $375 tuner price (Thanks, Karen), and I have an appointment for August 6.

[Jester]

Ok Thx Oldguy

Please keep us posted

I have not run my engine more than ~ 15 minutes at a time (generally at idle) but yeaterday the engine stalled while at idle - twice. I attribute it to poor grade fuel - I will use high octaine and try again. If problem continues, I may have to re-tune as well.

Thx

[oldguy668]

Put the tuning in your budget. Ford's original literature said to try and match the diameter and length of the stock intake and to put the MAF sensor a certain distance away from the TB. The newer instructions now say to retune if you don't use the stock airbox. My opinion is that they should tune the ECU to work with a short intake tract since nobody can use the stock airbox.

[Jester]

Hi Oldguy

FYI: I changed the gasoline to high octain (94), made sure the gas tank inlet (where you pour gas in) was not vapor locked and started again. I let run for 30 minutes and reved easily beyond 5000k rpm - absolutely no issues (so far) very stable - oil pressure fluctuats up to 40 psi (steady at ~ 25-30) and water temp is steady at 85 degC - Happy Happy!.

I beleive the stalling at idle that I experienced last start was a combination of the poor grade gasoline, a possible vapor lock in the gas tank feed (gas cap area) and the engine's computer dialing itself in (likely mainly due to low octaine gasoline).

Note - I double checked the FRPP stock intake setup and it has a 3.5" dia feeding the throttle body (same as the elbow I am using) - I located the MAF and DS valve cover vaccum connection in similar positions as stock intake. My intake set-up mirrors the FRPP stock set up as close as I could make it. My fuel regulator is set at 57 psi and holds steady - engine is very smooth

Still go-cart so I can not be sure the engine will continue to run smoothly - so far so good.

Good Luck!

[skullandbones]

http://www.americanmuscle.com/sct-4bank-custom-8793gt.html?gen=1979-1993&utm_source=bm23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Product+Section%3A+ProdName+SCT+4-Bank+Eliminator+Chip+w%2F+3+Free+Custom+Tunes+%288 7-93+5.0L%29&utm_content=bkorwek%40msn.com&utm_campaign=2012-07-26+Xmas+Last+Chance+%2415+%2879-93%29&_bta_tid=3.LYg.BpjL3g.EV0G.kWYN..8W1A.b..s.AbmC.b. UBD5AA.UBE_UA.jHvd0w&_bta_c=5czdvayfycey8jq9zjhtl1cpjundm

Saw this tuner on sale plus another $15 off today, I think. Wasn't sure if it would fit your application but thought you might want to have a look. Definitely under $375. Good luck, WEK.

[bansheekev]

Keep in mind the tune in the FRPP Controls Pack is designed for premium on the Coyote. If you are running 87 or 89 (here in California these are non-premium ratings) then that would potentially explain the poor running. Running it hard on non-premium fuel would probably be as bad as doing the same thing to a superchanged modular. I have seen guys loose an entire engine when their significant other filled it up with regular...


Hi Oldguy

FYI: I changed the gasoline to high octain (94), made sure the gas tank inlet (where you pour gas in) was not vapor locked and started again. I let run for 30 minutes and reved easily beyond 5000k rpm - absolutely no issues (so far) very stable - oil pressure fluctuats up to 40 psi (steady at ~ 25-30) and water temp is steady at 85 degC - Happy Happy!.

I beleive the stalling at idle that I experienced last start was a combination of the poor grade gasoline, a possible vapor lock in the gas tank feed (gas cap area) and the engine's computer dialing itself in (likely mainly due to low octaine gasoline).

Note - I double checked the FRPP stock intake setup and it has a 3.5" dia feeding the throttle body (same as the elbow I am using) - I located the MAF and DS valve cover vaccum connection in similar positions as stock intake. My intake set-up mirrors the FRPP stock set up as close as I could make it. My fuel regulator is set at 57 psi and holds steady - engine is very smooth

Still go-cart so I can not be sure the engine will continue to run smoothly - so far so good.

Good Luck!

[Jester]

Agreed - re high octane,

I ran again for 30+ minutes and absolutely rock solid!

Tune should help throttle sensativity though - I did not cut the pedal as per FFR install instructions as this changes the fulcrum / sensetivity - no issues with sensativity