crate or rebuild motor?

[Killermustng]

hi i have been looking into the cost and extras for building a 33. one of my worries is the engine. i was wondering if anyone has any input on either crate motors or rebuilding and which is better. also if you like crate engines where is the best to get it from.

[michael everson]

If you compare near identical engines, I think you will find that the new crate engine is a better deal. Most Ford crate engines come with a warrantee also.
Check ford racing and the vendors on this site for both rebuilt and new crate engines

[Racer 28]

Crate Engine, is the way to go. You just can't beat new everything with a warranty, weather it's from Summit, Forte, Ford, Gm, or Myself, If you shop around you will find a great little 302 for less then you can build it with comparable parts.

[Jeff Kleiner]

If you shop around you will find a great little 302 for less then you can build it with comparable parts.

I disagree, however I have highlighted the you can build it in this statement above. If you are capable it can be done for a lower cost than having the identical engine built---either you put in sweat equity or pay somebody for their labor. I chose to build my own engine for my car but used a Ford Racing crate engine in a customer's build. If he would have paid me to build the same combination the cost would have been higher. Just like body & paint work, it comes down to your own abilities and comfort level as to whether you are better off doing it yourself or having it done.

Jeff

[AJ Roadster NJ]

I can't find fault with the argument that a crate motor is the more logical way to go. Overall, it's less expensive and as pointed out by Mike you can even get a warranty.

But I still built my motor up from a bare block. Why? Because it was integral to the build, and actually the portion of the build that I enjoyed the most. I think it cost me about $1500 or so more to build than to buy a comparable motor in a crate.

It all depends on whether you want to do it, whether you're more interested in a quick build vs. stretching out the coolest project you'll ever do in your life, and your honest self-assessment of your capabilities. Although I will say again that I get it, buying a crate motor is quicker and cheaper, it is also true that if you take that argument to it's logical conclusion there's also no point in building a car, it would make more sense to just buy one.

The approach I took was to buy every book I could find on rebuilding Ford smallblocks and study the heck out of them. By the time I actually started the project, you could've given me a test on the books and I would've gotten an A+. There were no surprises as I went through the build. I enjoyed the process more than you can possibly imagine. I should mention that I did rebuild an engine once before, but that was 30 years ago in college and it was either rebuild my motor or not drive a car -- no choice. I don't really count laying in a puddle in the driveway much as experience in rebuilding, so basically I was a rookie.

Here's a video where you can here my very-warmed-up 351W running;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amcuDRISVh0

Good luck!

AJ

[AJ Roadster NJ]

I should also add that Tom Monroe's book was by far the best of the group. And also that the wealth of help and advice that I got on the forum was absolutely critical to success. I did not hesitate to ask questions along the way.

[Killermustng]

thanks for your input. I used to paint cars for a living so the assembly and body work are not a worry and i am mechanicly inclined but when it comes to being reliable i kinda lean to a motor thats allready built. I mean if it could cost me alot less i could push through it but if they are close i think i would just go with the crate.

[captain]

What about the Ford Racing's remanufactured crate Boss 302? It has a 2 year/24,000 mile warranty. It is about 3 grand cheaper than the same motor new. I am considering putting this motor into a '33 that I will build and use as a street/cruising rod. It is 340 hp. I would think it would have plenty of get up and go.

[riptide motorsport]

If its just a stock engine you can buy one from Advance auto or Autozone with warrenty for a good price.

[David Hodgkins]

What about the Ford Racing's remanufactured crate Boss 302? It has a 2 year/24,000 mile warranty. It is about 3 grand cheaper than the same motor new. I am considering putting this motor into a '33 that I will build and use as a street/cruising rod. It is 340 hp. I would think it would have plenty of get up and go.

The re-manufactured engine doesn't use a BOSS block... Great price though.

:)

[skullandbones]

There are tens of engine builders out there. I used ATK because due to the scale of their operation, balance and blueprinting is not extra and a small block ford rated 300 hp at 5800 rpms is not bad for $2495. I had go fast goodies to exchange the E7 stock heads which complemented the upgraded cam so I think if you want reliability and still get your hands a little dirty, do a combination of crate and modifying the top end yourself. If you want a turn key, then crate is the way to go. WEK.

[Jeff Kleiner]

David is correct; the reman'd M6007-X302 does not use a Boss block. I put one in a Mk4 for a customer. Had an oil leak issue and got no help on a resolution from Ford but nonetheless would probably use the engine again.

Jeff

[captain]

Thanks for the info guys. I did check about the Autozone engines and well they don't seem to have the best reputation. I am fairly certain that I will go with some version of a 302 but I am trying to figure out the right price to horsepower ratio. I would like to find something decent under 4000. I am not looking to do anything but use it as a street cruiser.

[captain]

I am fairly certain that I will go A new Ford Racing M-6007X302EK at Jegs. It is a kit that adds some parts to the Ford Racing M-6007X302E. Right now it is on sale for 6600. It is more than I was looking to spend but everything will be new. I did quite a bit of checking on the reman engines on the internet. The only company that seemed to have a great rep was Carolina Machine Engines. I also looked at ATK, Blueprint and Phoenix.com engines just to name a few. Some people love them and a few not so much. Basically it comes down to I can get a fully dressed reman engine in my hp range from one of these companies for about 5000 and dressing up a new Ford Racing for about 7000.

[Jay Mann]

I opted for the Ford Coyote Crate, $6200 + $1500 for the control system ( delivery included). 412 hp with factory reliability, easy to install, excellent fuel mileage, light weight.
.

[captain]

Jay,

That does seem like a good option. I am also going to put in AC and power steering. I from what I have read on the forums, most people have put in some version off the 302. So most of the knowledge/experience on the forums would be on the 302 install. Do you have AC & power steering? Also, I am looking to build an everyday driver. My delivery date for my kit is about a month away so I am still flexible as to my options.

[Arrowhead]

I opted for the Ford Coyote Crate, $6200 + $1500 for the control system ( delivery included). 412 hp with factory reliability, easy to install, excellent fuel mileage, light weight.
.

That's a smokin deal!

[Racer 28]

That is a great deal and a great engine, but there is a lot more to it then just buying the Crate engine and control pack. By the time you get done with the alt. kit and the plastic covers your in to it for about $8000. Not to mention the headaches from making headers and the exhaust work, I think you can buy headers from Tasca but they aren't cheap. You can do a turnkey 347 stroker for $6500 Carb to Pan, Ready to go with 430hp and 430ftlbs.

[Jay Mann]

Jay,

That does seem like a good option. I am also going to put in AC and power steering. I from what I have read on the forums, most people have put in some version off the 302. So most of the knowledge/experience on the forums would be on the 302 install. Do you have AC & power steering? Also, I am looking to build an everyday driver. My delivery date for my kit is about a month away so I am still flexible as to my options.

No, I am not running either. But FFR has a new install kit for the Coyote which looks after the Alternator so the AC compressor can go in the stock position. If you use the electric power steering there should be no problem, there is lots of room there at the power steering mounting area. FFR also has headers for the coyote now. The wiring is easy if you use the FFR component layout.

It also looks awesome, the engine is physically huge, but light weight.

Here is the manual:
http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Coyote-Engine-Fitment-in-Hot-Rod.pdf
Ford recomends that a heater hose be used to connect the heater inlet/outlet with a 5/16" restrictor. This is not mentioned in FFR or Ford racing docs for the standard Coyote, but is noted in BOLD in the SC and NA version fo the motor, so it should apply to the standard configuration.

[Jay Mann]

That's a smokin deal!

I ordered a complete 'Waterpump to tail shaft' assembly from Sean Hyland. Total cost $12,800, delivered to the house, which included Motor, control system, Alternator, Starter, Clutch, Bellhousing, TKO 600, billet fuel rails., fuel pump and fittings It arrived in a crate all bolted up and ready to drop in, except for the alternator which I requested to be loose.

[Arrowhead]

I ordered a complete 'Waterpump to tail shaft' assembly from Sean Hyland. Total cost $12,800, delivered to the house, which included Motor, control system, Alternator, Starter, Clutch, Bellhousing, TKO 600, billet fuel rails., fuel pump and fittings It arrived in a crate all bolted up and ready to drop in, except for the alternator which I requested to be loose.

All that and a factory warrenty to boot - an no leaky gaskets!

It's a good thing I built my car before the Coyote came out - the outcome might have been a little different if it was available at the time.

[captain]

So can someone give me the pro and cons of a new Coyote versus a new Ford Racing 302 with 340hp? I know the extra ponies will be on the Coyote but as I said before this would be strictly for the street. I am not looking to break any speed records. I want an easy install and have it be reliable as an everyday driver. I am thinking I will put a T-56 on it.