How much power do you plan to make?

[Thorne]

I'm planning on just about 400whp on big power mode and 350whp on daily mode.

EJ257 + EJ205 + 18g + e85
sti-RA gearbox

Speed Density off 03 ecu


If your not sure how to obtain your desired power level feel free to post. I've been tuning subarus since 07.

[spaceywilly]

I found this great thread made by Perrin about modding an old 02 WRX. They ended up making 315WHP. Seems like a pretty similar path to what many of us will be taking with our old 2.0 WRX motors

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1371832

Here is the part specifically about how they made their power
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548779

I'm currently planning out what I want to do to my 02 WRX/future 818 so any thoughts would be appreciated! Personally I am going for instant response and not huge power.

[Thorne]

A cheap 300hp recipe on a ej205 is as follows. THIS IS CHEAP Method

1. wally 255 or larger fuel pump / e85 go 320 100-200
2. Uppipe Catless 100 ebay
3. Downpipe of your choice 100 ebay
4. Catback (I made 280/280 with stock catback) ebay 100-300
5. VF39/VF43 or other take off turbo 250-500$
6. Modified Stock injectors FREE


on 93 you should be able to hit 300whp with out an issue. if not bring it to me ;)
on e85 in my 03 I made 335awhp/333awtq with a vf39 @ 19-20psi.

Properly tuned EJ205 should safely hold 300whp with out breaking a sweat (I pushed a ej22e to 370awhp after 10kmiles it let go a ringland)


all that for ~1000$ . I ran 12.3 @ 335awhp.

[Thorne]

I can even make you a basemap that would run with that setup
notice i didn't even mention intake. Worst mod for a subaru under 300whp. ebay ones are junk and other ones require a tune or are nothing more then hot air intakes .

[SkiRideDrive]

Thanks for the info. I'd put throttle response/spool time ahead of everything but am looking to achieve as much power as I can while retaining those qualities and not breaking the bank or the transmission. Based on what I've read the trans should be able to hold 300 whp if you are nice to it.

What is the quickest spooling turbo to achieve 300+whp? What do you mean by free injector upgrade? Will turbos spool quicker with the 06 2.5 liter motor due to the increased displacement?

Also, I hear a lot of talk about these "RA" gearsets. What exactly does that mean?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[RM1SepEx]

Only "need" 220 whp for my 818
my goal is 10 lbs per hp when fully loaded... 1800 lbs wet plus two people = 2200 lbs
only planning minor tweaks to my 70k 05 wrx drivetrain...

[Thorne]

Thanks for the info. I'd put throttle response/spool time ahead of everything but am looking to achieve as much power as I can while retaining those qualities and not breaking the bank or the transmission. Based on what I've read the trans should be able to hold 300 whp if you are nice to it.

What is the quickest spooling turbo to achieve 300+whp? What do you mean by free injector upgrade? Will turbos spool quicker with the 06 2.5 liter motor due to the increased displacement?

Also, I hear a lot of talk about these "RA" gearsets. What exactly does that mean?

Thanks in advance for the help.

. the cheapest route to 300 is vf or 16g. Both have similar spools. As soon as i have time I'll grab dynos. But by 3200 they made more tq than stock bo. That is by no means laggy.

Free injectors i mean you chop the tops off its hack but it works have tons of clients running around with my dremel special.

RA gears are a upgraded gearset for the 5 speed box. I personally made 100's of drag passes cutting 1.7-1.8 lights. 12.3 I broke them after years of abuse but im rebuilding them now.

Yes a 2.5 will make you spool faster. My 18g spools faster on my 2.5 than my vf39 did on my 2.0
http://www.40roll.com/ips/ej2218gVSvf39.jpg
that's a 2.0 vf39 vs a 2.2 18g e85
http://www.40roll.com/ips/ej22td04.jpg
ej22 stock turbo cranked up e85
http://www.40roll.com/ips/ej22t18gvsstock.jpg
my first ever dyno with stage 1 map. bone stock otherwise vs my 18g e85 2.2 build

[Thorne]

Only "need" 220 whp for my 818
my goal is 10 lbs per hp when fully loaded... 1800 lbs wet plus two people = 2200 lbs
only planning minor tweaks to my 70k 05 wrx drivetrain...

stage 2 is all you need and thats going to be fast enough for allot of people. But I want super car level power. Notice my stock stage 1 tuned 212awhp stage 2 can make 230-240ish awhp so i bet 230 will be easy 2wdd

[Thorne]

the numer on the graphs is not good anymore

[SkiRideDrive]

Thanks for the info!

I have heard of the ppg gearsets... are the RA gears a cheaper/less durable alternative?

One other thing I was curious about was the advantages to all this porting and polishing. Grimspeed offers the service for turbos in addition to the stock headers (which I will be keeping for the suby rumble). Worth it?

[shinn497]

A cheap 300hp recipe on a ej205 is as follows. THIS IS CHEAP Method

1. wally 255 or larger fuel pump / e85 go 320 100-200
2. Uppipe Catless 100 ebay
3. Downpipe of your choice 100 ebay
4. Catback (I made 280/280 with stock catback) ebay 100-300
5. VF39/VF43 or other take off turbo 250-500$
6. Modified Stock injectors FREE
.

How do you modify your injectors? Most exhaust will be heavily modified already due to the engine position. I don't know if many aftermarket parts will actually work. I have the issue of wanting to keep this car legal for CA, so I will eschew most exhaust mods.

My plan is an ej207 ver 8. The only mod I can think of is 85/injectors or meth. Will probably do the former for space/weight reasons. I think that with a tune it could hit 300whp+.

Any idea to do an assured 350 without changing out the turbo? I want to keep it twin scroll.

As for costs, my plan is to offset them with a cheapo impreza donor...

[Mechie3]

312hp/450ft-lb (crank numbers, dyno'd 243/351 @ the wheels, assumed 22% AWD drivetrain loss)

Stock 2.5 block, stock heads, TD04, no water or meth injection. I'm likely going to stick with that setup for now, maybe change the turbo later. My torque graph is super peaky while the HP graph is flat. Might be difficult to drive a lightweight RWD with the peaky torque. A larger turbo with more lag would give me more speed before the turbo hits hard to mitigate wheel spin.

[Zodiac]

In CA I plan on getting the SB100 so the car will be smog exempt. I also plan to eventually get to 400whp but I'm gonna start with a stock sti engine at first and just go from there.

[mekeys]

I would be sticking with a stock engine..

Mel

[Mechie3]

I would be sticking with a stock engine..

Mel

A stock engine (with stock everything else) with an aftermarket downpipe and engine management (reflash of the ECU) can make much more power.

[Silvertop]

An N/A Impreza 2.5 with stock bottom end, cam and valve spring upgrades, intake upgrades, and an ECU reflash. Looking for about 200 flywheel horsepower.

[Xusia]

I'd *LIKE* to make 325 whp, but I doubt that's within my budget. The reason for that number is that it's approximately the same power-to-weight ratio as a 600cc sportbike.


Thanks for the info. I'd put throttle response/spool time ahead of everything but am looking to achieve as much power as I can while retaining those qualities and not breaking the bank or the transmission. Based on what I've read the trans should be able to hold 300 whp if you are nice to it.


What he said!! My goals, in order of importance are:
*Reliability - My intention is to use this as a daily driver
*Throttle Response - It's been my experience you can go faster when you can actually drive the car (around corners, anyway), and throttle response plays a large part in this
*Power - As stated, 325 whp would be my ideal goal, but I think I'm probably going to be settling for 230 - 250 whp.

There is also the potential for me to go electric. I'm still researching and haven't yet found any thing that meets all my goals.

[SkiRideDrive]

I'd *LIKE* to make 325 whp, but I doubt that's within my budget. The reason for that number is that it's approximately the same power-to-weight ratio as a 600cc sportbike.

Now if we can only achieve the power to weight ratio of a literbike....

[Xusia]

Hahaha! I know, right... That's only about 520 whp - no big deal. You should go for it! LOL

[SkiRideDrive]

Maybe in a few years, probably have to updrade the transaxle though. A call to mendeola, albins, or ricardo might be in order.

[metalmaker12]

When we talk whp we should talk about on which dyno. I have a version 8 ej207 with the twin scroll,I figure 300-350whp or more on a mustang dyno were stock sti's put down 215whp. my power will be like 360-410whp on other dynos.

[Etos]

270-300 Wheel HP on an NA destroked 257 to 2.34l. Gonna be tough but I think it's doable.

My biggest issue is drivability. IMO a big turbo on a small tiny light car is going to be hard to control in the corners. No matter when you get the turbo to spool it's still going to be a huge surge of power out of nowhere. Hence why I 'feel' a turbo is not the way to go with this car if you want a good track car. But that's nothing more then my speculation. I'm sure with a big enough tire in the rear it can keep the turbo from kicking the back end. The only thing that worries me is the 40/60 weight ratio.

[Mechie3]

You can always make the car lighter if you want a better p/w ratio. ;)

Lighter wheels, lighter seats, lighter steering wheel, 2 piece rotors, trim the engine harness.

[Nuul]

I'm going for 300-325WHP. I don't know that I'll get there with my budget but I'm going to try.

[shinn497]

When we talk whp we should talk about on which dyno. I have a version 8 ej207 with the twin scroll,I figure 300-350whp or more on a mustang dyno were stock sti's put down 215whp. my power will be like 360-410whp on other dynos.

What mods? that is almost a 28% divetrain loss. Ouch.

[Xusia]

More like an 8% dyno loss! I'm not familiar with Mustang Dyno's, but properly calibrated dyno's should be reasonably close regardless of brand or model. Small differences in results will always be present, but 60 hp? Something's wrong...

[Leonard]

I can even make you a basemap that would run with that setup
notice i didn't even mention intake. Worst mod for a subaru under 300whp. ebay ones are junk and other ones require a tune or are nothing more then hot air intakes .

Packaging of the stock airbox will be a bit of a hassle (see the pictures of the test mule with it wire tied above the rear wheels. I'm sure a modified CAI could be fitted so that it picks up plenty of cool air without much effort.

[Zodiac]

I have read that cold air intakes on turbo charged cars are pretty pointless. the extra distance it has to travel isn't worth it. Plus the fact that the air is cooled through the intercooler before it gets to the intake. So unless you are going NA then don't bother. I know in the EVO world I almost never see anyone with a CAI. My .02

[Mechie3]

Intercoolers can only cool so much. Air heats up only so much when being compressed (and subjected to a hot turbo). If you start with cooler air, heat it, and cool it, the end result is cooler, and thus more dense, then if you start with warmer air, heat it, and cool it. My friend had a short ram on this STI. We did some testing with some thermocouples and found at a stoplight, temps rose upwards of 20-30 degrees (can't remember exact numbers, it's been a few years). At cruise, it was within 10 -15 degrees of ambient. My CAI (filter in the fender well) was within 2 degrees of ambient. I never noticed any issues with throttle response.

[Evan78]

What mods? that is almost a 28% divetrain loss. Ouch.He is pointing out that different brands/types of dynos tend to read differently from one another. For whatever reason, Mustang dynos often read lower than average.

[Etos]

Pre turbo tubing is not an issue. Post turbo tubing is an issue cause it's that much more space that needs to compress air. Cold air intakes definitely help a bit. Will it make more power on a base engine? Not really make more power as much as let the engine breath better. The big part of an intake box with factory filter is that it's a restriction due to the heavy filter. Cone filters tend to not filter as well thus allow air to pass through easier. So intakes aren't really a power maker as much as a supporting mod for higher power applications.

[Thorne]

Thanks for the info!

I have heard of the ppg gearsets... are the RA gears a cheaper/less durable alternative?

One other thing I was curious about was the advantages to all this porting and polishing. Grimspeed offers the service for turbos in addition to the stock headers (which I will be keeping for the suby rumble). Worth it?
RA gears are cheaper then ppg but allot, I ran them for years with out a issue making 300 -370 awhp and drag racing. So I think with the light weight it will work..

There header portiing is awesome I'm a big fan.

[Thorne]

312hp/450ft-lb (crank numbers, dyno'd 243/351 @ the wheels, assumed 22% AWD drivetrain loss)

Stock 2.5 block, stock heads, TD04, no water or meth injection. I'm likely going to stick with that setup for now, maybe change the turbo later. My torque graph is super peaky while the HP graph is flat. Might be difficult to drive a lightweight RWD with the peaky torque. A larger turbo with more lag would give me more speed before the turbo hits hard to mitigate wheel spin.

It's called ramping your boost in. Your dyno happened by spiking boost to 20+psi and letting it taper off. Just don't tune it that way. I have experiance tuning cars for race car drives and am able to make a car perform in a manner that best suite the platform.

[Thorne]

When we talk whp we should talk about on which dyno. I have a version 8 ej207 with the twin scroll,I figure 300-350whp or more on a mustang dyno were stock sti's put down 215whp. my power will be like 360-410whp on other dynos.

I'm sorry but your mistaken. I have a properly calibrated Mustang AWD-500 and a DJ 424XL they do read off but not to the extent your claiming.

Being that NASA requires the use of a DJ i typically speak in terms of DJ numbers. But do have both.

[Thorne]

Packaging of the stock airbox will be a bit of a hassle (see the pictures of the test mule with it wire tied above the rear wheels. I'm sure a modified CAI could be fitted so that it picks up plenty of cool air without much effort.

COLD AIR will require a tune to be correct, The SPT intake is even off up top. But I'm willing to build basemaps for people to start with and give them away. I just need access to the platform. ;)

Subaru's MAF setup is super sensitive to change even with the same diameter as stock 65-66mm

[Thorne]

Pre turbo tubing is not an issue. Post turbo tubing is an issue cause it's that much more space that needs to compress air. Cold air intakes definitely help a bit. Will it make more power on a base engine? Not really make more power as much as let the engine breath better. The big part of an intake box with factory filter is that it's a restriction due to the heavy filter. Cone filters tend to not filter as well thus allow air to pass through easier. So intakes aren't really a power maker as much as a supporting mod for higher power applications.
stock airbox is good to 300awhp. Pre turbo piping matters a ton when your dealing with a MAF based setup.

[Thorne]

Intercoolers can only cool so much. Air heats up only so much when being compressed (and subjected to a hot turbo). If you start with cooler air, heat it, and cool it, the end result is cooler, and thus more dense, then if you start with warmer air, heat it, and cool it. My friend had a short ram on this STI. We did some testing with some thermocouples and found at a stoplight, temps rose upwards of 20-30 degrees (can't remember exact numbers, it's been a few years). At cruise, it was within 10 -15 degrees of ambient. My CAI (filter in the fender well) was within 2 degrees of ambient. I never noticed any issues with throttle response.
Throttle issues is due to tune, I just did a SPT sti and the stop light temps where over 150, No issues its all about tip in.

[Etos]

Subaru's MAF setup is super sensitive to change even with the same diameter as stock 65-66mm

A good tuner would be able to compensate the diameter easily. It's done all the time with bigger intakes. Regardless I was talking about the amount of tubing not the diameter.

[Thorne]

A good tuner would be able to compensate the diameter easily. It's done all the time with bigger intakes. Regardless I was talking about the amount of tubing not the diameter.

I'm a protuner I understand this. I'm offering to make free BASEMAPS for people running 818s. But for a intake to be properly scaled you need a wideband / logger and someone who don't care about tickets or a dyno. I have 2 at my disposal.

I work @ www.ipsmotorsports.net
Part time now used to be fulltime

[Gary in NJ]

An N/A Impreza 2.5 with stock bottom end, cam and valve spring upgrades, intake upgrades, and an ECU reflash. Looking for about 200 flywheel horsepower.

This. I'll be plenty happy with a car that has a 10:1 Weight to Power ratio. I'd like to keep my driving privileges.

[metalmaker12]

from my travels a stock sti will read 215-235whp on a mustang dyno and 245-255whp on a dyno jet. I been told the mustang dyno is calibrated differently, but can be corrected to read the same, but is not considered a proper hp measurement by the company.I have gotten many cars tuned on both setups and the Mustang dynos always read lower if there set up the way they are supposed to.

PS: Thorne,I might have been a little off before on the differences, but it is 20-30whp on my cars has been the average

[bugeye_fever]

I don't have a specific power goal, but for me its about the power band more than the peak number. I'd like to do a built high compression sti motor on e85 with a roterex supercharger running a lower amount of boost, around 10 psi. Most Turbo ej's I see, my own included, have a fat midrange which is great when traction isn't a concern. But for the 818 I'd like something with a smoother powerband, plus it would be unique.

For the record, if this thread turns into a dyno argument, I will lose all hope for humanity.

[Mechie3]

It's called ramping your boost in. Your dyno happened by spiking boost to 20+psi and letting it taper off. Just don't tune it that way. I have experiance tuning cars for race car drives and am able to make a car perform in a manner that best suite the platform.

For AWD it wasn't a problem. Going to 21psi then down to 18 made the HP curve flat even if torque did spike. If I turn down the boost, I get less power below 3500 rpms. For autocross/AWD it was an ideal setup. Peak torque at 3100 rpms and constant power from 3200 rpms to 5000rpms. It just might not be so great for lightweight RWD.

[StatGSR]

RA gears are cheaper then ppg but allot, I ran them for years with out a issue making 300 -370 awhp and drag racing. So I think with the light weight it will work..


people give RA gears too much credit, they are no better strength wise than a 04+ 5spd. ppg and ra gears are not in the same category. that said, i still don't expect many people to "need" ppgs in an 818 and expect that most 5spds will do just fine anyway.

also on the whole dyno debate, several brands or types of dynos calculate/measure torque differently. so the results are going to be different. i'm pretty sure the old 6' drum dynojets purely measured the acceleration of the drum to back calculate the torque applied to it. there are plenty of good dyno reads out there if you want to take the time and learn about them.

Also, you can "correct" a dyno to give you any sort or results you want, but that doesn't make the numbers right... one should always take dyno whp numbers with a grain of salt.

[ncr416]

I'm gonna be going for the 450-500 whp mark.

[shinn497]

Stats how do you know of the RA gears' strength? Materials? Use? Tests?

[305mouse]

If I remember when the they upgraded the gears for the 04 model, they were made the same thickness as the RA gears.

[B33fy]

I've been accumulating parts for an engine build, looking for 350bhp so as not to overstretch the gearbox, got a version 8 ej20 bottom end, version 4 sti heads, and a VF48 turbo, throwing in some forged internals including omega pistons so I can wiring its neck on track days. Mind you we can pick up gearboxes very cheap $100-$200.

[Evan78]

Mind you we can pick up gearboxes very cheap $100-$200.Working or not working? What gearbox are you referring to? These are UK prices? In California, a working box is a whole lot more than $100-$200.

[Mechie3]

A working 06 5 speed cost me $1200 2 years ago. Busted ones sell for several hundred all day long.

[SkiRideDrive]

I also saw on Nasioc that Andrewtech charges a $600 core for transmissions. I'm assuming it doesn't matter what shape they are in.

[Mechie3]

He might be talking about old boxes too. US only had the WRX since 02, other areas have had it since 92.

[Evan78]

He might be talking about old boxes too. US only had the WRX since 02, other areas have had it since 92.That's what I was thinking too. Sure would have been great if the WRX and STi were available in the U.S. during the 90's.

[B33fy]

Working or not working? What gearbox are you referring to? These are UK prices? In California, a working box is a whole lot more than $100-$200.

The 5 speed box mainly out of 92 to 2000 cars. It was carried over to the later cars as well, looking at the uk bay of e just now they are a few in the ball park of £120-£150 sterling in working condition. If you bid on them you can get some under £100 with a 99pence start. I have the same conversion in my v-storm as in the 818. Owners break perfectly good cars because they can't sell them and make more money that way. If you keep an eye out a running sti engine goes for anything from £400 upwards. a whole running car, non sti in good condition can be bought for £1000-£1200 Times are hard and they are expensive to run so they are not that desirable at the moment.

I wouldn't bother wth a RA box the gearing is too short and not good for cruising. The best gearing is a uk wrx which should see over 150mph PPG boxes tend to have updated 1-4th gears with a standard uk 5th gear for top end.

[B33fy]

Here's a couple worth a punt

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Impreza-Gearbox-Diff-Propshaft-complete-/200791183204?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec0164f64#ht_748wt_1270

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUBARU-IMPREZA-GEARBOX-MANUAL-5-SPEED-93-01-WRX-STI-UK-IMPORT-/160841282524?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2572e333dc#ht_500wt_1287

[Twinspool]

I wouldn't bother wth a RA box the gearing is too short and not good for cruising.

It's close ratio, could be brilliant with the right final drive ratio.

[Thorne]

I don't have a specific power goal, but for me its about the power band more than the peak number. I'd like to do a built high compression sti motor on e85 with a roterex supercharger running a lower amount of boost, around 10 psi. Most Turbo ej's I see, my own included, have a fat midrange which is great when traction isn't a concern. But for the 818 I'd like something with a smoother powerband, plus it would be unique.

For the record, if this thread turns into a dyno argument, I will lose all hope for humanity.

I promise you it won't, Thats why I have both dynos !!!! Speed density cars get tuned on the mustang non sd dj or if the client requests one or the other I'll do it .


:) I wanna help the 818 guys because I've been into subarus and tuning for a while.

[Thorne]

people give RA gears too much credit, they are no better strength wise than a 04+ 5spd. ppg and ra gears are not in the same category. that said, i still don't expect many people to "need" ppgs in an 818 and expect that most 5spds will do just fine anyway.

also on the whole dyno debate, several brands or types of dynos calculate/measure torque differently. so the results are going to be different. i'm pretty sure the old 6' drum dynojets purely measured the acceleration of the drum to back calculate the torque applied to it. there are plenty of good dyno reads out there if you want to take the time and learn about them.

Also, you can "correct" a dyno to give you any sort or results you want, but that doesn't make the numbers right... one should always take dyno whp numbers with a grain of salt.

the 04 5speed is weaker then a STI-RA set purchased from rallispec as they are micropolished and cryod. The dsm guys have been doing this for years and they seem to hold 33-40% more power done that way. Otherwise the teeth are the same width. now those of you with 02-03 boxes I still think they will break @ any descent power level.

dj 424xl cannot be corrected to cheat with out someone jacking with temps and what not. Mustang all you need to do is change the weight of the cal weight.....
I spent allot of time working with mustang to calibrate our Mustang to there specs including all POTs and proper spin downs. It's a tuning tool honestly..

[Thorne]

I've been accumulating parts for an engine build, looking for 350bhp so as not to overstretch the gearbox, got a version 8 ej20 bottom end, version 4 sti heads, and a VF48 turbo, throwing in some forged internals including omega pistons so I can wiring its neck on track days. Mind you we can pick up gearboxes very cheap $100-$200.
Where are you going to get a gearbox for 200$ also with your power goals your motor can stay completely stock.

[B33fy]

Where are you going to get a gearbox for 200$ also with your power goals your motor can stay completely stock.

The standard wrx internals are close to their limit at this power, as mentioned I want a bullet proof engine with a raised rev limit to 8000 revs, loads of gearboxes in the uk for that money.

[shinn497]

how do you intend on raising the limit to 8000 without the ej207 heads?

[Nuul]

New springs and retainers at least. I know it's not uncommon for a destroked 2.34 to run redline at 9500 but I don't know what the accompanied headwork is.

[Evan78]

how do you intend on raising the limit to 8000 without the ej207 heads?he mentioned using v4 STi heads which I think had a factory redline of 8000 rpm.

[B33fy]

he mentioned using v4 STi heads which I think had a factory redline of 8000 rpm.

Must be an american thing talking in the third person "he" as its happened a couple of times now. :) B33fy or Mike is fine. Some early heads inluding the verson 4 sti heads have solid lifters with shim under buckets rather than hydraulic with shim over bucket so will rev higher without the risk of loosing a shim. (8250 limit) The sti camshafts are slghtly wilder and the RA wilder still if you an get hold of them. There iis a general view that the version 8 bottom end has the strongest crank with is nitrided from the factory the block is semi closed hence the choice. I choose the VF48 because it spools up reasonably quickly and despite coming from an 08 model year it is a single scroll turbo that bolts straight on with little hassle. Despite it originally being fitted to 2.5 engines it works well on the 2.0 ej20 engines Current outlay for heads, block and turbo is £910

[B33fy]

It's close ratio, could be brilliant with the right final drive ratio.

IMO you're just making work for yourself, as well as extra cost, ripping down a gearbox to sort the final drive when there are gearboxes available with the right gearing. Those with early type R's and RA's report the car pretty much flat out at 110mph!! With the lightness of the kit car the longer the better. SDR are even talking of uprating a box so 60mph is achievable in first which would improve the acceleration time due to one less gearchange

[Xusia]

Must be an american thing talking in the third person "he" as its happened a couple of times now. :) B33fy or Mike is fine.

Evan78 was "talking" to shinn497 (as evidenced by the quote), therefore you (B33fy) are a 3rd party, making use of the third person pronoun "he" appropriate. Had he (Evan78 - joke intended!) been talking to you, that wouldn't be the case. :)

[B33fy]

Evan78 was "talking" to shinn497 (as evidenced by the quote), therefore you (B33fy) are a 3rd party, making use of the third person pronoun "he" appropriate. Had he (Evan78 - joke intended!) been talking to you, that wouldn't be the case. :)

cheers for that Xusia, perhaps I should have been more specific.. in England using the word "he", rather than the persons name, especially when the third party is part of the discusson is considered somewhat disrespectful.. each to their own. :) anyhow back to the topic..

[Evan78]

That's what I figured you were getting at B33fy, and I think you're right. It's a weird thing, the internet moves so quick that if someone asks a question and you don't respond immediately, it feels like you're not present anymore and I refer to you as "he" as if you're not here. In addition to being more polite, it's more specific to use the name, and I always like to be as clear as possible by eliminating any chance of ambiguity. Using a proper name instead of a generic "he" informs readers better of who I am referring to.

Or maybe I just don't like Brits ;)

[wallace18]

I always liked the quote that the English and Americans were separated by a common langauge. LOL.

[Mechie3]

I somehow feel a "that's what she said" joke would be appropriate here, but not sure if our British friends (or even all of our American friends) would get it.

;)

[Evan78]

Well, "The Office" was a hit in England before they made a U.S. version...

[Xusia]

I *LOVE* a good "That's what SHE said" line, but let's not get this thread further off topic!

B33fy, I get what you saying now. Similar to Evan78, I feel that only applies in real conversations, but will make an effort to use actual names. To me, posts are different, because while you may be addressing someone, they aren't actually present. By the same token, 3rd parties aren't actually present either. I don't think that's a nationality difference as much as it is the difference in how each individual defines these new and convention breaking social "whatever-you-call-thems" brought about by the internet. No one has extended the etiquette rule book for every one of these situations (sure, there is well established etiquette for some situations, but certainly not all). Anyway, apologies and I'll make an effort to use names.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

[kmsgli]

Hey im new to this forum, I have been looking at the GTM but this 818 has really caught my eye. I build Vw's wondering what you Subaru guys do for fuel managment as I would want to build motor and tranny for big power in a 818. I am a megasquirt guy not sure if Subarus are big into that (not sure if anyone is as it is a little bit combuersome to use) very cost effective though.

Anyone know if a hard top is going to be offered? Vert is kind of a deal breaker for me.

Thanks for the input.

[B33fy]

No problem Xusia. Here's an image of my mid engined install for my v-storm I'm presuming the same or similar setup as the 818. this is pretty standard with about 220bhp

10692

I'd be interested to know what the gearchange mechanism will be like as they don't lend themselves well for conversion from rod to cable. I ended up designing my own system. I guess this would be for another thread or wait and and see what FFR come up with

[SkiRideDrive]

No problem Xusia. Here's an image of my mid engined install for my v-storm I'm presuming the same or similar setup as the 818. this is pretty standard with about 220bhp

10692

I'd be interested to know what the gearchange mechanism will be like as they don't lend themselves well for conversion from rod to cable. I ended up designing my own system. I guess this would be for another thread or wait and and see what FFR come up with

I'd be very interested in hearing about your gear shift setup. Thanks for sharing.

[shinn497]

No problem Xusia. Here's an image of my mid engined install for my v-storm I'm presuming the same or similar setup as the 818. this is pretty standard with about 220bhp

10692

I'd be interested to know what the gearchange mechanism will be like as they don't lend themselves well for conversion from rod to cable. I ended up designing my own system. I guess this would be for another thread or wait and and see what FFR come up with

God I feel like all my posts are questions but what type of vehicle is that for?

kmsgli, There are plans for a coupe 818 that will use the TDI drivetrain, but it won't come out until later. The initial versions will be roadster only with softtop. I for one don't mind the softtop. I have one on my miata and it serves me well even on rainy days.

[B33fy]

God I feel like all my posts are questions but what type of vehicle is that for?

kmsgli, There are plans for a coupe 818 that will use the TDI drivetrain, but it won't come out until later. The initial versions will be roadster only with softtop. I for one don't mind the softtop. I have one on my miata and it serves me well even on rainy days.

Its an SDR V-storm, an exocar, running a mid engined subaru setup a 2.0 EJ20 engine and a 5 speed box The SDR supplied gearchange is dash mounted resulting in long able runs and not so good gearchange. It was a long time coming as well. So I made my own floor mounted gearchange using some rod ends a rear suspension bellcrank from a motorbike and a toyota GT4 gearstick. I designed a few brackets and plates which I had laser cut and used 6mm push pull cables. I tried to keep it tidy looking as its on show. The end result below


http://www.flickr.com/photos/buckmoreboy/6954371758/

Below is an iimage of the gearshift minus a cover.

10695

[shinn497]

nice, forgive me but is this our ocupation? Or just hobby. It does sound rather expensive to do all of this custom fabrication.

[B33fy]

Not too bad cost wise, secondhand GT4 Gearshift £20 Bellcrank £20 rod ends £5 each threaded rod a couple of pounds The mount on the gearshift was machined by a friend £25. cables £100 Plates cut £50, Just make sure you use your networks and repay the favour.

I'm a psychiatric nurse by trade, life long passive interest in cars, first time building a car.

[Evan78]

I build Vw's wondering what you Subaru guys do for fuel managment as I would want to build motor and tranny for big power in a 818. I am a megasquirt guy not sure if Subarus are big into that (not sure if anyone is as it is a little bit combuersome to use) very cost effective though. The OEM computers are used a lot since they can be reflashed using Cobb's AccessPort or open source software (http://www.romraider.com/). I've never heard of someone using megasquirt on a street subaru, but I wouldn't be surprised if offroad guys use it for sandrails, etc.

[kmsgli]

God I feel like all my posts are questions but what type of vehicle is that for?

kmsgli, There are plans for a coupe 818 that will use the TDI drivetrain, but it won't come out until later. The initial versions will be roadster only with softtop. I for one don't mind the softtop. I have one on my miata and it serves me well even on rainy days.

WEll a TDI setup would be ideal, because then you could most likely make a vr6 work as they take will fit anywhener a VW 4 cyilinder fits (im guessing audi transaxle?). I just finished my 91 gli build. Vr6 turbo 450 whp very fun car to drive but a bit wasted on a fwd setup (thats the reason i stoped at 450 the setup is capable of much more).

Any idea how much longer between intial relase and hard top or possible TDI setup? I know intial relase is suppose to be earlier 2013. This project has me really excited.

[kmsgli]

The OEM computers are used a lot since they can be reflashed using Cobb's AccessPort or open source software (http://www.romraider.com/). I've never heard of someone using megasquirt on a street subaru, but I wouldn't be surprised if offroad guys use it for sandrails, etc.

Wow what a simple/cheap system. Seems I have been tunning the wrong cars all these years lol.

What a great way to tune i suppose megasquirt would be over kill for a subaru. Are there any downsides to romraiders?

[SkiRideDrive]

Its an SDR V-storm, an exocar, running a mid engined subaru setup a 2.0 EJ20 engine and a 5 speed box The SDR supplied gearchange is dash mounted resulting in long able runs and not so good gearchange. It was a long time coming as well. So I made my own floor mounted gearchange using some rod ends a rear suspension bellcrank from a motorbike and a toyota GT4 gearstick. I designed a few brackets and plates which I had laser cut and used 6mm push pull cables. I tried to keep it tidy looking as its on show. The end result below


http://www.flickr.com/photos/buckmoreboy/6954371758/

Below is an iimage of the gearshift minus a cover.

10695

Nice. I miss tinkering with ideas and fabricating. Looking forward to getting back to it.

These push pull cables remind me of my Formula SAE days when I designed a shifter for the sequential motorcycle transmission which would automatically disengage the clutch on downshifts to allow for easier matching of revs as we didn't run a clutch pedal.

[shinn497]

WEll a TDI setup would be ideal, because then you could most likely make a vr6 work as they take will fit anywhener a VW 4 cyilinder fits (im guessing audi transaxle?). I just finished my 91 gli build. Vr6 turbo 450 whp very fun car to drive but a bit wasted on a fwd setup (thats the reason i stoped at 450 the setup is capable of much more).

Any idea how much longer between intial relase and hard top or possible TDI setup? I know intial relase is suppose to be earlier 2013. This project has me really excited.

No clue about the release schedule. We won't here any news until SEMA 2012.

[imnotted]

These push pull cables remind me of my Formula SAE days when I designed a shifter for the sequential motorcycle transmission which would automatically disengage the clutch on downshifts to allow for easier matching of revs as we didn't run a clutch pedal.

We did something similar in our car! We had a hand-clutch/shifter instead of a clutch pedal. It was a pain learning to launch, but once you got that down, all you had to do was let off and slap it to upshift. I kind of miss those projects...kind of.

OT: I'm targeting the 350-400hp range at the flywheel. We'll see if that happens. I'm fortunate to have an experienced Subie dyno tuner in my town, so rather than dick with it myself and make a mess of the engine, I'll probably take it to him after it's built and all the go fast parts are installed. I figure that if I can get somewhere in that range, I'll be around 300whp. 6lbs/hp is low enough, right? ...right?

[tmpst]

My donor car is an '04 STI wide-body that I use for time-trials.
In terms of power, it has a full Cosworth longblock with Darton sleeves, 2.6l billet crank, GT35R turbo, big fmic, Cosworth manifold intake, equal length headers, LINK ecu, etc...

I'll let you guess at how much power it currently makes, but I plan on detuning it to about 500hp for use in the 818. I'll push it back up when I'm comfortable with the car and my ability to not kill myself in it.

I hope to transfer as much of the upgraded parts as possible to the 818, unfortunately I'll need to purchase a new transmission, I'm looking at a 5 speed dogbox with sequential shifter from either Kaps or PPG (I haven't done much research into the tranny yet).

-t

[Zodiac]

So does anyone know what differences there will be between a base impreza and a wrx? Obviously turbo'd engine but if im planning on putting in a sti engine/ecu/harness what else would need to be upgraded? not sure if the axles from a base impreza and a wrx are stronger/weaker or other parts you know. Cause if i can find a good deal on a base model and get the engine and possibly tranny else where and it comes out to a good deal i might do that

[shinn497]

Zodiak I've asked this for a long time and would also like to know as well.

Imprezas are cheap. I think you could get one for 1-2k if you really tried (assuming its been in an accident). There was another thread that detailed more of the model differences between years, but I don't remember it. Try a forum search.

[Evan78]

Zodiac - that's really a can of worms that deserves its own thread. Search for whatever is out there already, read it over, and then reply or start a new thread if you still have questions.

[Zodiac]

hmmm guess it's time for more research then yea probably a separate thread haha

[Thorne]

Wow what a simple/cheap system. Seems I have been tunning the wrong cars all these years lol.

What a great way to tune i suppose megasquirt would be over kill for a subaru. Are there any downsides to romraiders?

I've tuned MS on mazdas for a couple of years and honestly a 02/03 ECU running Carberry/GrpN is more reliable and powerful imho.

[Evan78]

Are there any downsides to romraiders?Downside to romraider when compared to what? As far as I know, the Cobb software is better, but is more expensive. For the Cobb AccessPort user, AccessTUNER Race (http://www.cobbtuning.com/Subaru-AccessTUNER-Race-p/atr-sub.htm) is what you need to do you own tuning. I've never used either to do my own tuning, I've only used off the shelf maps and paid for custom dyno tunes.

[Thorne]

From a tuners point of view ROMRAIDER is just as powerful as Cobb on all 16bit cars (02-05WRX) and on the 02-03 It's even more powerful than the cobb offering. Cobb is only really useful if you want to run multiple boost levels (Stock control vs Aftermarket) or racegas/e85 and be able to switch. But considering this is a grassrooots type build you could purchase your own Tactrix cable and reflash your own maps vs buying a cobb..

Both solutions are reprogramming the stock ecu. As soon as I get my hands on a "stock" 818 I plan on releasing free stage 1 maps (Stock) for the platform. I can do this for both Cobb and non cobbb as I'm a cobbprotuner.

[Thorne]

Also cobb's datalog viewer sucks and most protuners who tune Open source Subarus use a product called ECUEDIT. Check it out if your interested in tuning your own car. It has quite a few very nice features that make it worth the cost.

[Evan78]

I'm going to have to order the AccessTuner Race software just so I can check it out.

How does romraider compare to Cobb on the 32bit ecus? Does the realtime feature on the Cobb save much time? Seems like a nice feature to have for someone that spends a lot of time doing custom tunes.

Any idea on what percentage of cars you tune using Romraider vs Cobb? I wonder what the marketshare looks like for Cobb vs open source.

[tmpst]

My donor car is an '04 STI wide-body that I use for time-trials.
In terms of power, it has a full Cosworth longblock with Darton sleeves, 2.6l billet crank, GT35R turbo, big fmic, Cosworth manifold intake, equal length headers, LINK ecu, etc...

Well, so much for that plan. The garage where the car is worked on recently burned down and my engine was destroyed. The car itself is okay, but I plan on selling it. FWIW, the engine was dynoed at 617hp on 94 octane pump gas.

In a way it's a good thing, I'll be using the insurance money to build a much tamer engine (looking for 400hp) and the 818 itself. In fact, I'll probably have money left over.

But I'm still kinda sad.

-t

[Sebxb]

The garage where the car is worked on recently burned down and my engine was destroyed.

Lachute?

[Mechie3]

In a way it's a good thing, I'll be using the insurance money to build a much tamer engine (looking for 400hp) and the 818 itself. In fact, I'll probably have money left over.

But I'm still kinda sad.

-t

That's the boat I was in. My daily driver/former autocross 06 WRX was wrecked in a car accident. Between insurance, selling parts, and buying back the car I have a donor and am up ~$14k. It's a "free" 818. I missed the car for a month or so, but have since gotten over it and am pumped to get a free 818.

[tmpst]

Lachute?
Oui.

[Niburu]

An N/A Impreza 2.5 with stock bottom end, cam and valve spring upgrades, intake upgrades, and an ECU reflash. Looking for about 200 flywheel horsepower.


This. I'll be plenty happy with a car that has a 10:1 Weight to Power ratio. I'd like to keep my driving privileges.

same here

[longislandwrx]

I would love to run 12 flat, and still be competitive on track days. perfect. car.

[Silvertop]

same here

Well, Hello Niburu! Does your comment indicate that you plan to install NA donor parts in a wife pre-approved but otherwise track-oriented 818-R, or just that you approve of the concept of retaining driving privileges?

Incidentally, my intention to go NA is now pretty much etched in stone. I ponied up my 5K for an NA donor pallet from AWJ's Beta Donor Program a couple of months back. Right now I'm trying to decide whether to have them install the cams and valve springs before they ship, or do it myself....

Can't wait for the SEMA reveal!

[rjh2pd]

These push pull cables remind me of my Formula SAE days when I designed a shifter for the sequential motorcycle transmission which would automatically disengage the clutch on downshifts to allow for easier matching of revs as we didn't run a clutch pedal.

Nice, where did you go to school? I'm on the Mizzou team now. Our new car looks to be much better than last years.

[metalmaker12]

Nice, where did you go to school? I'm on the Mizzou team now. Our new car looks to be much better than last years.

My ej207 version 8 will put down 300whp- 380whp depending on tune. My friend's shop tunes these car everyday and made 375whp with a stock ej207 vesion 8, with a turboback and intake on an open source tune. I have heard of 400whp with stock ej207's.

With 400 crank hp the 818kg will have a power to weight of 0.222 20,000k

The 2013 Ferrari Berlinatta has a power to weight of 2.17 330,000k

The top end of an ej207 can rev to 8600 and with Jun cams and a slightly ported vf37 or similar flowing turbo and tune to 9k rpms strong.
Not saying the my 818 will have the top end of a v12 730hp ferrari, but off the line it will be close, which is really impressive to me.

[shinn497]

Not to mention the vf37 is a twin scroll turbo and will kick on earlier.

What kind of gas could net those figures? That would seem to require racegas/e85/meth .

[metalmaker12]

Not to mention the vf37 is a twin scroll turbo and will kick on earlier.

What kind of gas could net those figures? That would seem to require racegas/e85/meth .

93 octane works good for the stock injector setup. Some try a 50/50 mix with 93/100, but not needed, unless you want flames

[Niburu]

same here


Well, Hello Niburu! Does your comment indicate that you plan to install NA donor parts in a wife pre-approved but otherwise track-oriented 818-R, or just that you approve of the concept of retaining driving privileges?


a bit of both
My 818 will be pulling double duty as an HPDE/Autocross/good weather streeet car, essentially it'll be replacing the Miata
I may wait a bit to see what the coupe and/or mountable hardtop winds up looking like, while the 818-R looks good, it's not what I'm lookng for.
First off I have a pair of houses to unload in Virginia amd get a bit more settled here in upstate NY.
The good thing about being up here is access to way more Subarus at lower prices.

[timmy318]

All these are still up in the air but here are some of the options that I'm looking at:
• Cold air Intake
• Catless down-pipe (Illegal though :p)
• Catback exhaust
• Turbo headers, larger inter-cooler,
• Larger diameter inter-cooler piping
• Boost timer
• 2-step launch control
• Most importantly, a tune

[Kasmodean]

I like the idea of having 300+ whp too but is it really possible in the long term?

In the 818 set up, we are removing 1/2 of the power delivery drivetrain. Assuming the tires remain hooked up... A 300+ whp 818 will make the differential see the power of a 600+ WRX. Some people are talking 400+ hp so that means a differential would see an 800+ hp WRX. I say differential, but obviously is it all parts between engine and wheels.

[Xusia]

I don't know that the forces work that way, but regardless, I've definitely scaled back my HP plans after some careful thinking. Sure, I'd always love more, but I also know what's like to reign in a high HP beast. At the end of the day, drive-ability and cornering ability is more important to me than sheer acceleration or top speed. With a car this light, I believe too much HP or torque will make it difficult to drive well/fast.

[JAubin]

I've been following this thread, and I keep jumping around from Stage 2 Level (ie 260ish Crank HP) on up to "Stage 4" Level (300+ Crank HP ) which involves a new turbo, fuel pump, injectors, intercooler, etc. My thought is that the bigger power number will come at the big cost of low end torque w/ the 2.0L motor (what I'll be using) and in addition, if you put on a huge turbo and make a ton of power you're easily approaching supercar power:weight ratios. I personally want to figure out how this car will handle the lower power first, and also have the awesome early spool up you get w/ the stock turbo and stage 2. The 818 is 2/3 the weight of a WRX so it'll be way quicker, but you can't use that math for the drivetrain as in a HP multiplier. Yes the axles will see a higher load than normal IF you have traction. The drivetrain losses are reduced since you're not trying to power 4 wheels though, so more of that will get to the ground (again assuming you have traction).

timmy318, a cold air intake is more trouble that it's worth from everything I've read.

[WonderDude]

I'm gonna try and stick one of THESE (http://jmmbiz.com/materials-engineering/mechanical-metallurgy/giant-engine) in mine! :)

[Xusia]

A stage 2 (ish) 2.0L is what I'm planning as well. If I want more power after that, there's nothing stopping me from upgrading the 2.0L further. Or I can switch to a 2.5L (I don't the rewiring; it's time consuming but easy). In the best of all worlds I'd be able to mate an H6 to the 5 speed. Maybe someday... :)

[timmy318]

timmy318, a cold air intake is more trouble that it's worth from everything I've read.

Yea, I heard about that too. Personally, I plan to make about 200-250whp, not much of an upgrade compared to what other people are saying but I think that is more than enough for a daily driver that can still be able to use on the track. What I really want to do is have 2 modes, on for everyday use which limits certain things to provide the best fuel economy, and then a track mode which kinda will let everything fly :p! But seriously, I agree with you, 400whp+ is probably too much for this little car unless you seem to have a death wish by rocket!

[papajon1000]

Not exactly sure where I will end up power wise. As a side note, I think without the drive shaft, the extra differential, and axle shafts a stage 2 (ej255) engine will be very close to 300 whp. Maybe aim to make a bit more power than I do in my LGT (currently at about 320 whp / 340 wtq).

My plans for now include:
e 85 (dw 300 lph, dw 1300 cc injectors)
upgraded inter cooler (possibly air to water)
turboback exhaust (including grimmspeed ported headers and up pipe)
intake (I have one currently and know how to properly tune for one, plus I love the turbo sounds from it)
tgv deletes
innovate lc1 wideband

Turbo wise I will be looking at:
vf52- came out of 2008+ wrx, can make more than 300 whp on pump gas and has the correct configuration for wrx intercoolers
vf 39,43,48 - sti turbos, all can make over 300 whp
fp 68 hta (or i guess fp 71 hta)- if I go aftermarket this will probably be the one I will get, the 68 has similar to stock spool but with much increased flow can support 350+ whp (on e85) the 71 is new but the site says it can support 425 whp which is a bit more than i want right away
http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTSUB71HTA&Category_Code=WRX-Turbo

if I feel like going big and want a stock location turbo I will look at the dom 1.5 xtr. 400+ whp capable and ball bearing center section for reliability
http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXSTi-Dominator-15XT-R-Ball-Bearing-Turbocharger_p_25.html

[longislandwrx]

My donor car is an '04 STI wide-body that I use for time-trials.
-t

do you still have the trans that came out of that car?

[Benji]

a bit of both
My 818 will be pulling double duty as an HPDE/Autocross/good weather streeet car, essentially it'll be replacing the Miata
I may wait a bit to see what the coupe and/or mountable hardtop winds up looking like, while the 818-R looks good, it's not what I'm lookng for.
First off I have a pair of houses to unload in Virginia amd get a bit more settled here in upstate NY.
The good thing about being up here is access to way more Subarus at lower prices.

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp :)

If I were to do an 818 I would probably go the NA route. Being that my 99 Miata is some 150kg heavier than the 818 (provided they hit their goal) and I'm probably down to 130-140bhp at the flywheel, I know an 818kg car (which has the potential to be even lighter than 818kg!) with 200bhp at the fly is going to be very quick. It would be nice if you could get 200bhp at the wheels but I'm guessing that's asking a bit much from the NA block, though someone was claiming they were going to get 270-300bhp at the wheels from the NA block?!

[Xusia]

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp :)

Is that because they don't know what they're missing?!? :D JUST KIDDING!!! LOL

[ScottKoschwitz]

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp :)

If I were to do an 818 I would probably go the NA route. Being that my 99 Miata is some 150kg heavier than the 818 (provided they hit their goal) and I'm probably down to 130-140bhp at the flywheel, I know an 818kg car (which has the potential to be even lighter than 818kg!) with 200bhp at the fly is going to be very quick. It would be nice if you could get 200bhp at the wheels but I'm guessing that's asking a bit much from the NA block, though someone was claiming they were going to get 270-300bhp at the wheels from the NA block?!

I thought the same thing when I read that post. I'm also leaning more toward an NA engine. Essentially, I'm looking for a cheap Lotus Elise alternative, so I'd like a high-revving NA engine. Anyone know if the NA 2.5-liter engines like to rev?

I used to think an Elise revved high. Then I watched videos of the motorcycle-engined Fisher Fury.

[Etos]

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp :)

If I were to do an 818 I would probably go the NA route. Being that my 99 Miata is some 150kg heavier than the 818 (provided they hit their goal) and I'm probably down to 130-140bhp at the flywheel, I know an 818kg car (which has the potential to be even lighter than 818kg!) with 200bhp at the fly is going to be very quick. It would be nice if you could get 200bhp at the wheels but I'm guessing that's asking a bit much from the NA block, though someone was claiming they were going to get 270-300bhp at the wheels from the NA block?!

That would be me. I never said though that it WILL make that, just that is my goal. I still haven't talked to Dom about it since he is the engine builder and would know best on the subject. 200hp is fairly easy to get from a non built block NA. I'm gonna go destroked long rod with super high compression pistons and massive cams. How much power that is gonna make who knows but I would be real happy with 300.

[Benji]

From other readings it looks like that is going to be far fetched, maybe 200 at the wheels? Though you say that is 'easy', any examples of this or more?

Provided they are on target for 818kg, I wonder what we'll be able to get it DOWN to :)

Was it mentioned anywhere that it will be using the stock Impreza seats (not talking about the 818R here)? Unless 818kg IS only going to be for the 818R and not the street version :(

[Silvertop]

Provided they are on target for 818kg, I wonder what we'll be able to get it DOWN to :)

Was it mentioned anywhere that it will be using the stock Impreza seats (not talking about the 818R here)? Unless 818kg IS only going to be for the 818R and not the street version :(

The $9900 price point is certainly based on using the stock Impreza or WRX seats. My assumption is that the intention is to achieve the 818kg goal using those seats. Which of course means that upgrading to an aftermarket racing seat should get you BELOW the 818kg benchmark. But we'll have to wait and see.

[shinn497]

I like the idea of having 300+ whp too but is it really possible in the long term?

In the 818 set up, we are removing 1/2 of the power delivery drivetrain. Assuming the tires remain hooked up... A 300+ whp 818 will make the differential see the power of a 600+ WRX. Some people are talking 400+ hp so that means a differential would see an 800+ hp WRX. I say differential, but obviously is it all parts between engine and wheels.


I don't know that the forces work that way, but regardless, I've definitely scaled back my HP plans after some careful thinking. Sure, I'd always love more, but I also know what's like to reign in a high HP beast. At the end of the day, drive-ability and cornering ability is more important to me than sheer acceleration or top speed. With a car this light, I believe too much HP or torque will make it difficult to drive well/fast.

Forces most certainly do not work that way!

[JAubin]

Some more thoughts on a medium power level (Hah where medium is 300 crank hp, aka about 6 lb/hp or a better weight:hp ratio than a 2012 Z06) without doing any major modications (ie bigger turbo, engine internals) I've seen a few dyno plots over on Nasioc where people are topping 250 whp (So in the 300 crank hp range) on the stock 2.0L motor and turbo. These are stage 2 cars of course, but with ported and polished intake, TGVs deleted, exhaust manifold and crosspipe ported and polished and header wrapped, and turbo ported and polished and ceramic coated. I like this path since I assume I'll have some downtime and P&P isn't terribly difficult if you have some air tools and patience, so in my mind this is an easy way to make some small power gains with just some work and not a lot of extra cost. Plus all of these things should allow a quicker spool up. Oh, and you could be taxing the stock injectors if you tune to take advantage of the increased flow w/ all these changes...so I plan on dropping in some STi pinks or similar ~550cc injectors in there as well as a fuel pump. Does that still count as "minor"? I dunno, should be quick and get into boost very fast tho.