Deisel EJ?

[C.Tree]

Did Subaru make any normaly asp deisel motor? or is the current turbo deisel the only option? This would be a good sub for the high mpg version. Thanks.

[shim2]

No I don't believe they ever made a Diesel EJ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru#Diesel

That's all the info I could find on Subaru Diesel.

[Twinspool]

Mazda's next CX-5 will have a turbo diesel option. 300+lb-ft and a 5000rpm (!) rev limit. Mazda depreciation curves and wrecking yards could get very interesting in a few years.

[Etos]

There's a Forester diesel for the euro market. It would be quite expensive as it's very new and it's diesel. Also uses a 6 speed(though not the STi 6 speed) so who knows if it will stick out the body or not.

Any new car with diesel will definitely be iffy for states that require the emissions regulations be upto par with the year of the donor. DEF is not cheap, takes up room in the exhaust and is another thing to monitor/go wrong.

When I spoke to Jim at the open house he told me the whole diesel thing was not a big a thing for them. They are simply offering it for the hell of it but are not going too far out of their way for it. One of the points we agreed on was the milage you get from a diesel will not go up due to a lighter platform without either a smaller motor or much longer gears to get more milage then the car it came from.

Point being, if you want a high milage car, a kit car is not the route to go. Typically a high milage car requires alot of miles to make it worth while. Who wants to commute with a kit car over large miles without any creature comforts? You're just better off keeping the diesel car you would of used as a donor.

[pondo]

There's a Forester diesel for the euro market. It would be quite expensive as it's very new and it's diesel. Also uses a 6 speed(though not the STi 6 speed) so who knows if it will stick out the body or not.

Any new car with diesel will definitely be iffy for states that require the emissions regulations be upto par with the year of the donor. DEF is not cheap, takes up room in the exhaust and is another thing to monitor/go wrong.

When I spoke to Jim at the open house he told me the whole diesel thing was not a big a thing for them. They are simply offering it for the hell of it but are not going too far out of their way for it. One of the points we agreed on was the milage you get from a diesel will not go up due to a lighter platform without either a smaller motor or much longer gears to get more milage then the car it came from.


I have a 2010 BMW 335d as my daily driver. DEF (33% urea solution) is expensive at the dealer but equal quality ASTM rated fluid is $2.50 a gallon at a truck stop. 5 gallons every 15k miles isn't a big deal. The big rub is the particulate filters that are required on new diesels...not sure where that would even go on the 818. You are probably right about the mileage. The abundance of torque allows very long gearing so that you can idle at 60 mph. For instance, my 335d pulls 1800 RPM @ 75mph and gets about 35mpg. @ 60 mph I break 40 mpg! With proper gearing and diesel having 30% more energy per unit volume, you could really make a fuel sipper. The VW TDI would probably be quite fun in the 818.

[Etos]

I have a 2010 BMW 335d as my daily driver. DEF (33% urea solution) is expensive at the dealer but equal quality ASTM rated fluid is $2.50 a gallon at a truck stop. 5 gallons every 15k miles isn't a big deal. The big rub is the particulate filters that are required on new diesels...not sure where that would even go on the 818. You are probably right about the mileage. The abundance of torque allows very long gearing so that you can idle at 60 mph. For instance, my 335d pulls 1800 RPM @ 75mph and gets about 35mpg. @ 60 mph I break 40 mpg! With proper gearing and diesel having 30% more energy per unit volume, you could really make a fuel sipper. The VW TDI would probably be quite fun in the 818.

Not talking about the fluid itself, but the whole system. It takes up room and costs money if you are just getting a diesel motor without a donor.

Another thing to consider if someone wants to take a forester diesel from europe is the ultra low sulfer diesel. You would have to add fuel conditioner every time further raising the cost of diesel.

I just don't see the benefits to going diesel for a kit car. More expensive, smells, more complicated, milage similar to donor, harder to work on, parts cost more.

[Twinspool]

Not talking about the fluid itself, but the whole system. It takes up room and costs money if you are just getting a diesel motor without a donor.

Another thing to consider if someone wants to take a forester diesel from europe is the ultra low sulfer diesel. You would have to add fuel conditioner every time further raising the cost of diesel.

I just don't see the benefits to going diesel for a kit car. More expensive, smells, more complicated, milage similar to donor, harder to work on, parts cost more.

Can't speak for zee Germans but the Mazda was designed to not require DEF. And fuel conditioner? Last I checked 2 stroke oil was a few bucks a quart.

[ram_g]

Another thing to consider if someone wants to take a forester diesel from europe is the ultra low sulfer diesel. You would have to add fuel conditioner every time further raising the cost of diesel.
.

Huh? All diesel sold for cars and trucks in the US has been ultra low sulfur diesel, just like Europe, for at least a couple or 3 years now. No additives required. Not saying that a diesel 818 is a good or bad idea (really not interested in the 818 at this point) but did need to correct the diesel misconceptions. DEF is cheap and the filtering solutions work just fine. IMHO diesel is the future of car transportation in the US and worldwide.

Not unbiased - our daily drivers are a BMW 335d and a VW Passat TDI.

[Etos]

Huh? All diesel sold for cars and trucks in the US has been ultra low sulfur diesel, just like Europe, for at least a couple or 3 years now. No additives required. Not saying that a diesel 818 is a good or bad idea (really not interested in the 818 at this point) but did need to correct the diesel misconceptions. DEF is cheap and the filtering solutions work just fine. IMHO diesel is the future of car transportation in the US and worldwide.

Not unbiased - our daily drivers are a BMW 335d and a VW Passat TDI.

2007(or 2006?) is when US mandated ULS requirement. Europe doesn't require ultra low sulfur. They sell it but very few ever opt for it. And yes ultra low sulfur diesel requires additives for diesel engines not made for ULS. In the truck stop business where diesel is our bread and butter.

Diesel never was or ever will be the future of car transport. It's too dirty and smelly for most people. We sell both gas and diesel in NJ where you don't even need to pump your own fuel. I'd say for every 1 diesel car(not truck) we will have 600-800+ gas cars. That's just the way it is with diesel. Sorry no misconceptions coming from here.

[Xusia]

Diesel may be the better fuel, but:

1. For the reasons Etos stated, it will simply never catch on in US (at least not before EVs take over, because...)
2. Fossil fuels of all types are on their way out

I do think a diesel engine would make the ideal on-board generator for an EV, but that's a different discussion.

[pondo]

2007(or 2006?) is when US mandated ULS requirement. Europe doesn't require ultra low sulfur. They sell it but very few ever opt for it. And yes ultra low sulfur diesel requires additives for diesel engines not made for ULS. In the truck stop business where diesel is our bread and butter.


+1 on that one. Only on the heavier cars with > 3.0L diesels do you need the DEF equipment in order to meet EPA standards. TDI power plants don't have them except for the Touareg. Personally, I find diesel smells less (due to having a lower vapor pressure) and increases the fun factor of an "economy" engine by leaps and bounds. My 335d has the same torque as my C6 corvette! Don't put 2stroke oil in your diesel if you have a DPF...it'll be bad!

[imnotted]

Personally, I find diesel smells less (due to having a lower vapor pressure) and increases the fun factor of an "economy" engine by leaps and bounds.

This. Plus there's nothing like passing someone in 5th gear! You're not going to get to do that with an economy engine.

Also, you shouldn't need additives to run ULSD in non-ULSD diesels. I know that's not the case with most passenger cars. Maybe it's different for semis when you're talking about engines that go 5 million miles in between rebuilds, but I've seen plenty of people who run ULSD in old powerstrokes and TDIs without additives. I've heard myths that ULSD doesn't lubricate as well and requires additives, but those are only myths in my experience (which, again, is limited to passenger diesels). I could be wrong.

I'd love to see someone take a modified ALH and stick it into an 818 for mileage purposes. However, the primary concern I have is not with emissions, wiring, or drivetrain - all of which would make the project insanely difficult. I would be more worried about mounting the engine and dampening the vibrations that it is going to put off. Passenger diesels usually go into stout (heavy) vehicles and see a large amount of dampening. I would imagine putting something like that in an 1800lb car would make it feel like the wheels are going to rattle off. It would be interesting to see what the Green Grand Prix GTM folks have to say about that, though.

If you could find a way to mount it longitudinally, find a transmission (maybe something off the Touareg or Passat?) that would work, stuff it all into the space designed for an H6, sufficiently mount it to the frame, and dampen it so it's actually a pleasure to drive, though, you might be looking at a significantly heavier car. The end result would still be very impressive, but maybe it would be better to source one of those 1.2l or 1.4l TDIs from overseas and wait for the fuel miser edition of the 818. Now THAT would be a fun project!

Man, I need to get off the couch and go do something else. The last thing I need to do is convince myself to increase my budgeted time and money and try to turn this into a diesel project!

ETA: Where there's a will, there's a way! (forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=193909)

[bromikl]

If I install a diesel engine in my 818, it will be creating electricity. No tranny and no clutch. And all the vibration and sound dampening the space will allow. Diesels are incredibly efficient when tuned for a specific RPM.

[Steve91T]

My 99 F-250 with the 7.3 turbo diesel runs just fine on ULSD with no additives, has 213,000 miles, gets 20 MPG on the highway and makes 600 ft/lbs of tq to the wheels. Turbo diesels are here to say, especially now that the technology is catching up. If anyone has driven a BMW 335d will understand that. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who have ridden or even driven the car knew it was a diesel. It's that smooth and quiet makes no smoke, has an AMAZING amount of torque, and gets an honest 36 MPG on the highway.

[pondo]

My 99 F-250 with the 7.3 turbo diesel runs just fine on ULSD with no additives, has 213,000 miles, gets 20 MPG on the highway and makes 600 ft/lbs of tq to the wheels. Turbo diesels are here to say, especially now that the technology is catching up. If anyone has driven a BMW 335d will understand that. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people who have ridden or even driven the car knew it was a diesel. It's that smooth and quiet makes no smoke, has an AMAZING amount of torque, and gets an honest 36 MPG on the highway.

Just got 36mpg average on a 375 mile highway round trip @ 80+ mph cruising. Love the 335d!

[mrvwcastner]

www.boxeer.com. I think this is quite simply the best option if diesel is your route. Fully done up puts you out of budget build, but should be an excellent option.

[TY2185]

Cool link...Thanks for sharing.