Blasphemy!!

[JDubs]

I am looking for a platform to do a modern, but basic, summer driver. The 65 Coupe seems like a perfect platform for that. I am a huge fan of the Lotus Exige, but am more of a hot rod V8 guy.

Anyway, down to the blasphemous part. As mentioned, I want to do something modern. I would seriously consider a GM LS based engine (GASP). I know you are going to lecture me on resale value or the "wrongness" of it all. :p I guess a big part of it is... I'm comfortable with that motor and know a guy that could build and tune it for me. I suppose I would consider a "coyote" 302, but I just don't know Ford stuff and I'm not sure adapting that would be any easier than adapting a LS. My concerns are 1) the orientation as far as transmission tunnel and shifter, and 2) the exhaust to get the headers and side pipes working. I am confident I can work out the fuel return lines, fuel pump, and get a custom driveshaft for the application.

I don't really have a question; just throwing it out to this community. I am really just looking to build something I will enjoy and can drive to work on sunny summer days and occasionally take to a track day or autocross event. Looking to do A/C and a modern engine; probably IRS. Possibly newer technology racing seats and an amp and speakers so I can plug in my iPhone. Other than that, it would be basically what comes in the kit.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your comments and participating in the forums.

[Thanatopsis]

Mike marshall has done it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65_cobra_coupe_stl/

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

A couple of guys have already been down the road you're considering:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3969-The-start-of-a-new-project

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/21-ffr-type-65-coupe/287666-new-engine-my-coupe.html

Cheers,
Jeff

[David Hodgkins]

As mentioned above it's been done and is encouraged! It's YOUR ride, build it as you like!

You won't encounter any bashing for your decision, just encouragement. You may need to make a frame mod for the engine mounts but I'll let those who are experts on Cheys chime in on that.

Welcome to the forum!

:)

[Someday I Suppose]

As said, your car do as you want, Randy will tell you ole Shel looked at Chevy engines first for the Cobra anyhow.

Personally if I wanted to go modern though I would maybe consider the Coyote engine, not sure if anyone has put one in a coupe yet.

[JDubs]

Thanks for the replies, links and encouragement. On another board, someone posted about an LS and got completely ripped. I am glad I am getting a different vibe from the fine folks here.

[jkrueger]

Go down to post #38 and I have some pictures of the headers we are going to use on our 5.3L vortec engine.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6037-Coupe-557-is-at-it-s-first-home

We don't have the engine in yet, but it looks like they will work. They are off the 2010 LS3 camaro engine.

JC

[JDubs]

Go down to post #38 and I have some pictures of the headers we are going to use on our 5.3L vortec engine.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6037-Coupe-557-is-at-it-s-first-home

We don't have the engine in yet, but it looks like they will work. They are off the 2010 LS3 camaro engine.

JC

JC, that's awesome. I guess that is about what I pictured... a shorty header to leave plenty of room for custom work. I also followed this (that Jeff posted above): http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3969-The-start-of-a-new-project and there were some good exhaust pics (and motor mounts) so it makes me feel that it is do-able.

I notice you went with a solid rear axle. You state that you are building it for racing. Wouldn't IRS give you better cornering? Mind if I ask what your thought process was? I ask because I like the live rear end (have a Nova and have had two Camaros), but appreciate the benefits of IRS.

[loeffler1]

Hope you're mechanically inclined, because you will be taking on a huge task. Nothing will fit, and you will have to modiify everything, Not to say it can't be done because quite a few have but I expect they were quite capable or had deep pockets. Can't understand myself, when you can make as much HP with a stroked 302. Why spend more money to reinvent the wheel?. If I were a Chevy fan I would build something like a one of the '63 Corvette Grand Sport replicas. Just as streetable as a coupe. Matter of fact the body shop performing my work is also doing a Grand Sport for another fellow which is pretty much at the same stage as mine and it looks terrific. Also don't forget, this is still a racecar and not your daily driver with stereo which you couldn't hear anyways. As far as resale is concerned this is a specialty car and I doubt very much the type of engine you use will change values appreciably. Just look at the number of '32 Ford hotrods out there with GM small blocks. Just my 2 cents.

Bill

[skullandbones]

I was a die hard Chevy guy from the very beginning and this is the first Ford engine I've ever worked on. Having said that: I am absolutely convinced the 302 is one of the best there is (Winsor or Coyote depending on budget). If you are thinking that going with the LS is easier because you are familiar with Chevy, don't go there. From my experience with the roadster build so far (mechanicals similar to coupe), you will be forsaking the support and aftermarket part availability that make these builds so easy and affordable. I have been amazed how little room for fudge factor when you are working in the confined area of the engine bay. The coupe is worse than the roadster, I think. So fabrication will be harder than you think for such as headers. Unless you just want to prove a point, think Ford engine. WEK.

[JDubs]

JC, I had replied, but it got moderated and then never showed, so I apologized if it suddenly shows...

Thanks for the pic of the headers... I guess a shorty like that is about what I expected to leave room for custom work. Any thoughts on why you chose the solid rear axle vs. IRS for a racing application?

loeffler1, also looking at a 67 Coupe by Downs so I am definitely keeping that in mind. Also, I don't care about resale... just have seen a lot of people talk about that aspect on boards.

skullandbones, Not trying to prove a point. Honestly, just keeping all avenues open. I'm here to learn and open myself to other possibilities. Following some of the posts above, it certainly seems do-able. I guess the question becomes: how much fab to make a coyote fit? If its similar, i would go with what I know: LS. If its easier (motor mounts match up, headers bolt up) then I am open to that.

[skullandbones]

That's a valid point about the Coyote engine. I should have just stuck to Winsor. That's really what most of the builders have used and that's where most of the ready made components are found. I guess what I was trying to get across is the small block Ford has great potential. Mine may have around 350 or so hp but if I decided to stroke it or switch to a 351, there wouldn't be a major difference in fitment of various components. So hp is no problem. Of course, the rule is: do what you want; its your baby!! I'm sure you will get all the support you need when the time comes and you've made your decision. Good luck, WEK.

[LDave]

The fab work for the exhaust and mounts really wasn't too bad for me at all. (LS motor) If you are handy with a welder and have a wild imagination its a piece of cake!

[mekeys]

Would a guy get drummed out of the club if he put a four cylinder Thunderbird engine with a turbo charger in the corbra roadster ?????...I'm looking for good gas mileage.

Mel

[Jacob McCrea]

If you want to see one of these cars, send me a PM and drive over to Pittsburgh when you have a chance. I am still working on the chassis but nevertheless you will see what you would get "in the flesh" and probably be able to make a more informed decision regarding whether what you want to do, both in terms of the drivetrain and the overall goals, is feasible.

Also, I am positive that Forte's and probably others sell LS engine-to-Ford chassis engine mounts, which should make that aspect of the build a bolt-together affair. If you look through Dave's build thread you will see how much hood clearance there is with a fuel injected LS engine: lots. Hood clearance is an issue with some 351 Windsors and even some 302s, depending on which intake manifold, carb, air cleaner, etc. is used. An EFI LS engine would avoid all of those issues; the trade-off would be some exhaust fabrication and probably a few more issues which others can speak to. As for the IRS v. solid axle issue, there is a recent thread in the roadster forum titled "IRS CV Joint Popped out," and if you read post no. 20 you will get a good overview of some of the issues with an IRS system in a full-on race car. Anyway, as said above, feel free to get in touch with me and check out the car.

[Vman7]

I as well used to be a big chevy nut....lol, but as of late, not so much, mostly because of the bail out stuff. Back in the '70s I liked chevy more for a bunch of reasons over a ford. On the older ford blocks you could not interchange the heads between blocks like on a small block chevy. Ford used to be noted for oil pump problems, chevy for water pump (which is easier and cheaper to replace?). I like that the distributor is in the rear on a chevy, makes it easier for EFI systems like the ones you see on a LS1 etc., also looks better, a lot of the ones for Ford sit off to the side. Oil pump area is in the rear on a chevy.

All that being said, I most likely would end up putting a Ford engine in.

As far as setting up your exhaust, I have been checking out this modeling system you can do yourself, it comes with all these plastic part you connect together to form your bends. The company is called Icengineworks, and they are based out of Austin, TX.
http://www.icengineworks.com/icewmain.htm

David

[jkrueger]

JC, I had replied, but it got moderated and then never showed, so I apologized if it suddenly shows...

Thanks for the pic of the headers... I guess a shorty like that is about what I expected to leave room for custom work. Any thoughts on why you chose the solid rear axle vs. IRS for a racing application?


I orginally was going to get the IRS but was talked out of by these forums and Karen's first race coupe. My last track was an RX 7 (SBC powered) and had an IRS rear. I liked it because it was some much you could tune on it. But apparently the Thunderbird rear end isn't up to heavy duty track duty. See some of Karen's post about and some of the trouble she had with breaking control arms and axles popping out. So I went with the solid rear axle. Lots of race cars still use these, think mustangs and camaros.

JC

[Jacob McCrea]

Would a guy get drummed out of the club if he put a four cylinder Thunderbird engine with a turbo charger in the corbra roadster ?????...I'm looking for good gas mileage.

Mel

Not as far as I am concerned. But for what little it's worth, I'd carefully assess whether your fuel savings would be negated by the expense of making an exhaust system and whatever other parts are needed to make that engine work. I don't mean to be a naysayer, but with the cost of a custom exhaust, custom intercooler piping, etc., you might be spending a dollar to save a dime.

[Hankl]

Would a guy get drummed out of the club if he put a four cylinder Thunderbird engine with a turbo charger in the corbra roadster ?????...I'm looking for good gas mileage.

Mel

Not only would you get one of these!

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/hankl_album/straight_jacket_backFS-1.jpg

But This would be mandatory!!

http://www.80stees.com/images/products/Hannibal-Lecter-Mask-link.jpg

Hank :cool:

[Owlknight360]

JDubs, Love the idea! I don't have the coupe yet, but I have an '01 Z28 in the driveway waiting to be parted out for the kit! Kinda the Kart before the horse, but I'm getting there. Hope to purchase the coupe by December this year.

[JDubs]

JC- thanks on the IRS... I read through several things along those lines. I have a Nova, a GMC truck, have had two Camaros and an S-10 truck so I know a little about driving solid axle cars! Just thought I would explore the IRS route.

Jacob- thanks for the PM. I will take you up on it at some point. Also, thanks for the Forte's idea.

Owlknight- thumbs up! Keep in touch and let me know how that goes.

Another thought for anyone... I looked into the kit for a '67 Corvette Coupe by Downs Industries. Its not really a kit, though. You buy a fiberglass body and then they have a chassis or you have to provide one. Then there is no interior, wiring, etc. So, not really a kit and I would imagine you would spend a fortune building one.

[Randy Jones]

Yep, no problem here... Hey, it's your car and you can build it any way you like.

I've been Chevy powered and on the road for six summers now and can't think of one time where somebody was really bent at a car show about me doing what I did. It's 'a tube frame race car that loosely resembles an AC Ace'. .. For the Roadster anyway.

If going the road less travelled makes you excited, do it! You won't regret it, no matter what you choose.

Randy :D

Ps... And yes, Ol Shel wanted GM first. It was GM's mistake that set the stage for what happened next! ;-)

[FFinisher]

Ps... And yes, Ol Shel wanted GM first. It was GM's mistake that set the stage for what happened next! ;-)

BLah, BLah, BLah, :cool:

[STLMARSHALL]

I have done the LS1 conversion and wish I had done it sooner. The LS is 50 lbs lighter and much more capable than the old 302. I have changed the exhaust which has gotten rid of all the resonance in the car caused by the stock side pipes. I used solid motor mounts and moved the engine 2" forward trying to better balance the car to reduce the oversteer I have been struggling with.

Here are pics and video. Let me know if you have any questions.
http://s464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/LS1%20conversion/
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/LS1%20conversion/DSC_2897.jpg
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/LS1%20conversion/20120511_170751.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scl5OXF4ffM&list=UUd16s9zwPBUCB8EpK7OAzJA&index=2&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GI-Q2SsnLM&list=UUd16s9zwPBUCB8EpK7OAzJA&index=1&feature=plcp

[Owlknight360]

STLMARSHALL,
Were your solid motor mounts off of a corvette?
Also what rear end did you use? The coupe asm manual lists three kinds with three lenghts
Year Rear End Width
87-93 59.25”
94-98 61.125”
99-04 62.52”
I was reading in Kit Car Magazine that the 94-98 are the prefered choices?

[Owlknight360]

Also I was going to ask you more questions on the ffcars forum, but for some reason the forum has not been cooperating with my computer...

[STLMARSHALL]

The Coupe will allow huge amounts of rubber, but the older rears are a little narrow. I have 1.25" bolt on spacers on the rear with the 87-93 setup and the spacing is perfect. This means my rear is 61.75 with the spacers so the 62.52 might be a little too wide. That is probably why everyone says to go with the 61.125. The car will easily take a 335 in the rear but the rims get expensive for anything over a 10.5" rim. On the front a 315 fits with the SAI mod on a 10.5" rim.

The motor mounts came with my 03 Vette motor. Just the aluminum brackets not the rubber doughnuts. I cut the stock 302 mounts off level about 1.25" above the 4" tubes and welded a shaped piece of 1/4" plate for the Vette mounts to sit on. I then cut a 1/4" piece of rubber to cushion any high frequency vibrations and bolted it all together. The shape of the 1/4" plate was dictated by the tight tuck headers I used.

Keep the questions coming as I am happy to share all I learned in the process.

Pics:
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/LS1%20conversion/20120416_174310.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/LS1%20conversion/DSC_2573.jpg

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/LS1%20conversion/DSC_2414.jpg

[CraigS]

How about a GTM?