Parts not included with complete kit?

[CRAZYBOB]

I know from the FFR website and reading the forums the general parts that are not included with a complete kit, but I was hoping to get the complete detailed list. Hopefully you can help. I can give a shot with what I know but please supplement. Thanks! Bob

Battery
Engine
Water pump
Alternator
Carb
Fluids
Transmission
Rearend
Fan Shroud? (I saw this on another forum which sparked my interest in this topic)
Wheels
Tires
Fluids

[CRAZYBOB]

Maybe I am opening a can of worms with this after thought but:

Sound Deadening material? (That is not really required for the build but it seems everyone uses it)

So I guess I would need to budget for it, kind of.. Right? So I just expanded my topic a tad..

[shooter]

Thats a BIG can of worms! Here's my $0.02:

Driveshaft
Brakes (I think...)
Wiring kit
Water proof connectors
Main power kill switch is pretty common to all builds
Gauges?
Trunk carpet?
Clutch quadrant, I had to get a new one from Summit.
Lots of nuts, bolts, self-tapping screws, rivets....and bandaids.

Plus the list of accessories is almost endless....including the sound deadening material you spoke of.
Cockpit heat protection (goes over the sound deadening)
Cobra Earl fresh air intake for footboxes
Temp relay for electric fan
Door panels
and on and on and on......

[Jeff Kleiner]

Thats a BIG can of worms! Here's my $0.02:

Driveshaft
Brakes (I think...)
Wiring kit
Water proof connectors
Main power kill switch is pretty common to all builds
Gauges?
Trunk carpet?
Clutch quadrant, I had to get a new one from Summit.
Lots of nuts, bolts, self-tapping screws, rivets....and bandaids.

Plus the list of accessories is almost endless....including the sound deadening material you spoke of.
Cockpit heat protection (goes over the sound deadening)
Cobra Earl fresh air intake for footboxes
Temp relay for electric fan
Door panels
and on and on and on......

He's asking about a complete kit Shooter.
It does include the driveshaft, brakes (front), wiring harness & connectors, guages, clutch quadrant with Wilwood pedal box, and fan relay & thermostatic switch as well as fasteners.

Jeff

[shooter]

Ahh! My bad.

[Don]

Oh Boy! Well, technically you can build the car in a basic form with the complete kit + drivetrain and a few small related parts. But I'd bet only 1% of the people that purchased the complete kit did that. The end game for me consisted of doubling the price of the complete kit (Do Not underestimate the cost of options/mods). I easily spent north of $500 just on extra nuts and bolts (mostly for my changes). I also went with a 408w and will give it a decent paint job when done.

[3kcarbon]

Ditto on the bolts! I have replaced all the FFR black oxide "ready to rust" bolts. The wire harness isn't really complete. I added a 3G upgrade and a main breaker. There are going to be things you want to replace or do different that will come along. One of mine is the roll bar. I 'm not going with the M4 Paper clip bar. Instead a full width bar that will get chromed. Kaching...

[OregonDave]

FYI, here's the list of parts FFR told me was needed to complete the IRS on a complete kit.

1989-1997 Thunderbird Supercoupe (All Posi-traction)
1992-1997 Thunderbird V-8 models with rear disc brakes(some posi-traction)
1992-1997 Lincoln Mark VIII (All aluminum carrier, most are non-posi-traction)
1989-1992 Mercury Cougar XR-7, supercharged V-6 (All posi-traction)
1993-1997 Mercury Cougar V-8 with rear disc brakes(some posi-traction), after 94 all Cougars were called XR-7s

Parts needed
• 8.8” carrier, front mounting bushings, and rear mounting hardware.
• Inner and outer CV-joints (make sure that the measurement at the splined ends near the CV joints measures 1.2”)
• Spindles and attaching hardware
• Disc brakes with flexible brake lines and mounting brackets

NON-Thunderbird parts needed
• Mustang Quad shocks –Aftermarket KYB shocks usually interfere with tires.
• ½” Lug nuts (T-bird lugs are metric)

[ram_g]

And if you happen to want to power your Roadster with a 4.6 modular engine, there are a lot more parts not included in the Complete Kit, even if you specify that you're building a 4.6 and buy the extra 4.6 box from FFR.

E.g.:
- wiring harness (the Complete Kit harness doesn't run the engine, and the 4.6 engine just absolutely loves wires!)
- fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel filler neck (parts supplied with the CK don't work for the 4.6)
- radiator, radiator hoses, radiator fan, radiator expansion tank ( ditto )
- clutch cable (need longer one than supplied - 4.6 specific)
- etc. (probably a few things I've forgotten)

[FRANKRAT]

Exactly, you can build the car from the complete kit, with the addition of the engine drive system, but to have a cutabove car, you end up adding a lot or replacing with better items

[jlfernan]

Little doodads also include:
Roll bar grommets
Steering column grommet
I got Russ Thompson's column/turn signal assembly
Some do heat shields
Trunk lid support
And for some of us; lots and lots of suntan lotion!

[sharkx]

I went the complete kit route. I discovered, as the previous posters have mentioned that it's the upgrades and in particular, it's the optional stuff the runs up the cost. Although the list of stuff you can do to your car is endless, here are the most common ones along with the basic things needed to complete the kit:

Engine
Battery
Alternator
Expansion tank - optional
Carb
Wheels
Tires
Clutch
Bell housing
Ignition system i.e. MSD, etc (for carb)
Starter
Silcone Sealent
Seam Sealer
Misc wiring for engine
Megafuse (optional)
Upgraded Battery cable (optional depending on engine)
Cockpit cooling (optional)
Wipers (optional)
Heater (optional)
Parking brake cable rework (depending on rear end)
Misc brake line fittings (again depending on rear end)
Carpet for trunk (optional)
Sound deading material (optional)
Self canceling turn signals (optional)
Roll bar gromets (optional)
Depending on your engine choice - upgraded fuel system
Driveshaft safety hoop - optional
Fan thermostat/relay - optional
Upgraded fan - optional
Electrial connectors - depending on the guage selection
Seat belt trim rings - optional
Adjustable seats - optional
Glove box - optional
Door panels - optional
8.8 carrier & hardware
Inner and outer CV-joints
Spindles and attaching hardware
Disc brakes for rear
Power brakes - optional
Power steering - optional
Upgraded steering rack - optional
Powder coat/annodizing for panels - optional
Dash Trim Bling - optional
Softop - optional
Upgraded sidepipes - optional
Bodywork
Paint - optional
Misc upgraded hardware - optional
Oil cooler kit - optional
Upgraded engine/tranny mounts - optional
Upgraded weather stripping - optional
Splats - optional
Bump steer kit - optional
Front & rear sway bars - optional

And the list goes on...

Bruce

[Pierre B]

It is true there is price creep in one of these builds, but the amount depends on the appetite and the discipline of hte builder. All of these are custom cars, in part because we all chose a bit differently with the available options. Some additional costs build gradually as the build progresses: nuts, bolts and other fasteners for example. Others will hit you all at once, and sometimes early in the building process, say IRS. Still others can be postponed, and they are material for future projects. For those building the first time, many cannot foresee right then everything they will want to include. In my case, I had never heard of nor considered several of the optional features I eventually included. I took three years to build my MKII, and that gave me plenty of time to plan ahead. My main building theme was to stay light and nimble. Others have different goals and their choice of options vary accordingly. It's all a very individual, personal process, but the finished product (in whatever degree of trim the builder chooses) is very exciting indeed to own and drive!

[Darren]

Definitely loaded question. For me it was about $25k worth of parts in addition to the complete kit :D

[Don]

Definitely loaded question. For me it was about $25k worth of parts in addition to the complete kit :D

If you are lucky, that includes paint too.

[gyow]

And if you happen to want to power your Roadster with a 4.6 modular engine, there are a lot more parts not included in the Complete Kit, even if you specify that you're building a 4.6 and buy the extra 4.6 box from FFR.

E.g.:
- wiring harness (the Complete Kit harness doesn't run the engine, and the 4.6 engine just absolutely loves wires!)
- fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel filler neck (parts supplied with the CK don't work for the 4.6)
- radiator, radiator hoses, radiator fan, radiator expansion tank ( ditto )
- clutch cable (need longer one than supplied - 4.6 specific)
- etc. (probably a few things I've forgotten)

This has me really confused now. I just ordered a kit and plan to use a 4.6. I checked with FF5 and was told I could use the FF5 fuel tank, etc. as long as there was a regulator installed.

They also stated that there was no problem with using the FF5 radiator.

Do you see any issues with that?

[3kcarbon]

The "Ready to Rust" black oxide bolts that come with the kit need to be replaced during the build. Mine started rusting right away. Some of the things that come in either kit you will want to upgrade or replace for most any reason that may occur to you. One example there is the radiator hose. I just couldn't feel good about it long term. Do your research long before buying. Your taste and interest may change and its good to do before buying. It may be better to buy the base kit optioned up and get exactly what you want when you want it. This also leaves the gauge set open for a upgrade. You can get the same gauge set from Speedhut made to order.

[Pierre B]

This thread reminds me that lots of builders want to be sure they have everything they need in hand before starting their build. When I built my MKII, I hadn't done anything even remotely like that before ever in my life. I did a donor build with a basic kit to start: the complete kit from FFR wasn't available at the time, and I might find it tempting were I to undertake this again. However, an important lesson I learned from my approach is that, for me, taking the building and optioning process one step at a time, I was able to think ahead as I worked and make more informed decisions about what I might want to add or not. I couldn't have gotten the end product nearly as spot-on to my liking had I tried to anticipate everything at time of kit purchase.
I did buy certain upgrades from FFR at the start, though: 3-Link, racing front suspension, hood hinge to name a few. Those I have never regretted.

[gyow]

This thread reminds me that lots of builders want to be sure they have everything they need in hand before starting their build. When I built my MKII, I hadn't done anything even remotely like that before ever in my life. I did a donor build with a basic kit to start: the complete kit from FFR wasn't available at the time, and I might find it tempting were I to undertake this again. However, an important lesson I learned from my approach is that, for me, taking the building and optioning process one step at a time, I was able to think ahead as I worked and make more informed decisions about what I might want to add or not. I couldn't have gotten the end product nearly as spot-on to my liking had I tried to anticipate everything at time of kit purchase.
I did buy certain upgrades from FFR at the start, though: 3-Link, racing front suspension, hood hinge to name a few. Those I have never regretted.

As an engineer, it's in my DNA to have it all up front and fully planned out. It's the difference between "Overhauled" and "West Coast Customs" :)

[PhoneGUy]

I agree with all of the above especially 3kcarbon.

For my first build - a complete kit was the only answer for my next build - NOT.

Also, get the RT Go Pedal.

[edwardb]

As an engineer, it's in my DNA to have it all up front and fully planned out. It's the difference between "Overhauled" and "West Coast Customs" :)

I'm not an engineer (don't hold that against me...) but I am in IT and a professional project manager, so I'm a planner and a list maker too. Add to that pretty much a type A perfectionist as well... I just finished my 2-year build, and while you can do a lot of up front planning, you will learn a lot along the way and find that some things you thought you wanted or would work perfectly don't turn out so well, and things you didn't plan or expect come up during the journey. So I would encourage you to not be obsessive about every detail before you start. Make a build plan (engine, trans, rear suspension, brakes, etc.) and a general idea of the options you are looking for. But don't get in a hurry to buy everything up front. Trust me, you will change some things along the way. Some more than once. With on-line ordering and lots of good supporting vendors out there, you can have most parts on hand just days after ordering, and with a little advance thought and planning during the build, not get slowed down. Even with this pretty conservative approach, I still had quite a few parts left over when I was done because of changes. Was able to sell most of them.

[MPTech]

Here's my build plan, HTH (PM me if you'd like a Word version). I started off with a bunch of notes on scratch paper and evolved to this:
MPTech build plan revision 9 and counting.html (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/264052-mptech-build-plan-revision-9-counting.html)


Oregondave?

FYI, here's the list of parts FFR told me was needed to complete the IRS on a complete kit.

1989-1997 Thunderbird Supercoupe (All Posi-traction)
1992-1997 Thunderbird V-8 models with rear disc brakes(some posi-traction)
1992-1997 Lincoln Mark VIII (All aluminum carrier, most are non-posi-traction)
1989-1992 Mercury Cougar XR-7, supercharged V-6 (All posi-traction)
1993-1997 Mercury Cougar V-8 with rear disc brakes(some posi-traction), after 94 all Cougars were called XR-7s

Parts needed
• 8.8” carrier, front mounting bushings, and rear mounting hardware.
• Inner and outer CV-joints (make sure that the measurement at the splined ends near the CV joints measures 1.2”)
• Spindles and attaching hardware
• Disc brakes with flexible brake lines and mounting brackets

NON-Thunderbird parts needed
• Mustang Quad shocks –Aftermarket KYB shocks usually interfere with tires.
• ½” Lug nuts (T-bird lugs are metric)

I just installed my IRS last weekend. I pieced together the parts I needed from the forum.

Lincoln MK8 aluminum pumpkin
new Ford Racing Products 3.55 Ring & Pinion set
new Timkin bearings
bushings
clutch pads
Ford Trac-loc (Posi) differential
’95 T-Bird IRS rear knuckles (Knuckles blasted & painted silver, New OEM Ford bearings, Hubs re-drilled for 4.5 inch lug pattern, New wheels studs, and VPM Poly Bushings)
’95 T-Bird IRS disc brakes calipers and rotors.



Don't forget to buy the Fortes IRS Solid mounts.

I don't think you need the "Mustang Quad shocks".
You also don't need "Inner and outer CV-joints", the FFR IRS package comes with them. (they are very nice by the way).


I've learned A LOT from this forum, before I started my plan, I didn't even know how to spell "IRS". (and it used to be a bad word!):cool:

[ram_g]

This has me really confused now. I just ordered a kit and plan to use a 4.6. I checked with FF5 and was told I could use the FF5 fuel tank, etc. as long as there was a regulator installed.

They also stated that there was no problem with using the FF5 radiator.

Do you see any issues with that?

Incorrect, or at least not completely correct, response from FFR. Depending on the year of the donor, the 4.6 engine may require a return- or return-less fuel setup. The complete kit tank is okay to use with a return set up (note, you still have to provide the fuel pump, which is not included). If the engine is expecting a returnless system, you will need the donor fuel tank because the computer-controlled pump used with the returnless system isn't compatible with the FFR tank. Or you could modify the system to a return-type, but that involves additional re-programming of the PCM (at minimum).

Regarding the radiator, the 4.6 engines expect a 2 speed fan, while FFR supplies a single speed. Again you either need to use the donor fan or re-program the PCM to expect a single speed fan. You could attach the fan to the FFR radiator, but you'll find it fits better to the donor radiator. Also, the plumbing is a bit different in terms of how the expansion tank is plumbed to the radiator - I think you can adapt the FFR radiator but I found it easier to just use the donor one.

Bottom line is that the 4.6 brings up a raft of issues (most minor, but some real head-scratchers) that the FFR Complete Kit does not address. You are well advised to visit the "other forum" to research 4.6 application, because a lot of the collected wisdom isn't on here yet.