Working on the donor

[wallace18]

I thought it would be cool to have a thread about some of us working on our donors. I dropped the entire engine, transmission, rack and lower front suspension in one unit. This makes working on disassembly much easier IMO. Good luck to all with their donors.



10273

[riptide motorsport]

Great tip............thanks.

[Mechie3]

Unfortunately I don't have a lift. I'll be pulling my motor separate from the trans just like all the other times I've done it. I thought about dropping everything and using the hoist to lift the frame, but then I have no way to move anything anyways. :lol:

[RM1SepEx]

Can't do that with my 4 post lift either!

I'm thinking that I use the lift to disconnect everything and pull the engine out the top. (like you see on Car Warriors) At least I'll be able to use the saws all to cut radiator supports etc... I'm thinking that pulling the engine and trans as a unit should work for me. I'll make a rolling storage pallet for the assembly to get it out of the way while other stuff is done. I'm hoping that I can dump a shell at the recycler for $ per pound after a weeks work. Took a hydraulic ram to the bent control arm today... still needs more "adjusting" :-)

BTW the Subaru WRX seats SUCK!!!!

[Kalstar]

Unfortunately I don't have a lift. I'll be pulling my motor separate from the trans just like all the other times I've done it. I thought about dropping everything and using the hoist to lift the frame, but then I have no way to move anything anyways. :lol:

I pulled my Camaro drivetrain out the bottom, big cast iron V8 including the overly large (and heavy) k-member. Engine lift on the nose support and out the bottom it came. Simply used (4) $14.00 Harbor Freight furniture dollies. Two under the block, one under the trans and one under the driveshaft, more than did the trick. If fact the whole drivetrain set on those dollies for a year while I worked on the engine. When the time came to reinstall, rolled right over no problem.

Lifts are over rated.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm sure that there are 50 ways to do it, each with advantages and disadvantages

lifts big advantage is time, you can position the car for better access and avoid wierd body positions.

At my advanced (50+) age that is extremely important!

I've also done everything without a lift in the past, just rigged with jack stands, roller dolleys, come alongs, big pry bars, pipes to roll heavy weights, an ATV winch etc... with some creativity and fixturing almost anything can be done safely

[Mechie3]

Here's where I'm at as of tonight. Got a little side tracked autocrossing the last two weekends. ;) Wife has tennis tomorrow night so that means guilt free garage time!

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/2012-06-18_22-57-55_284.jpg

[wallace18]

Wow! You are really far along. I noticed when I was taking the engine from the trans that a lot of vacuum lines were very brittle and hard. A few just broke apart. I am going to replace all hoses both coolant and vacuum. This is a good bit of money I did not think of originally. Just a word to the wise if your donor is high mileage.


10373

[Mechie3]

I've been wrenching on this car for 6 years, so I know where most of the bolts are to quickly take stuff apart. :) That mess of tubes with the black saucer shaped bit on the manifold is part of the evap purge system (in case you didn't know). If FFR isn't reusing the charcoal canister it can probably be ditched along with the solenoid underneath it and those ports capped off. A few have done it on their WRX's. At certain times, the solenoid opens and under vacuum the saucer bit opens allowing it to pull fumes from the charcoal canister and get better emissions and minor improvement on the mpgs.

[wjfawb0]

I tell everyone that both of my 2005 STis were like snap tight models. They're super easy and fast to take apart and put back together. If I was demolishing a WRX and not putting it back together, that would be quick work. I've been working non stop on fabricating a car sized offroad buggy in my garage for the last eight months, so my wrenching skills are at their best right now.

[AJW Performance]

Wallace18, looking good!
Responding to your email shortly

[Mechie3]

My friends gave me the idea of doing a time lapse video. I mounted my Go Pro Hero 2 to one of the garage door openers and put in on a 30 second photo lapse. Too bad I didn't have this idea a week ago!

EDIT2: uploaded better quality to Vimeo.

https://vimeo.com/44358087

[riptide motorsport]

man..your storming along!!!

[Xusia]

Love the time lapse!

[apexanimal]

makes it look so easy ;)

nice work

[Mechie3]

Thankfully the video hides the part where I forgot to undo one of the engine harness connectors and had to stop and pop it apart. :o haha

[Mechie3]

Added on to the video. Changed pic rate from 30s to 10s and modified the playback rate accordingly so that time passes at the same rate in the video. Gives smoother motions now though.

https://vimeo.com/44557615

[SkiRideDrive]

Thanks for sharing.

[Mechie3]

:)

Got some more done this afternoon.

https://vimeo.com/44583620

[Mechie3]

Started cutting the front end into bite sized pieces.

https://vimeo.com/44637064

[metalmaker12]

I sold the roof too

[Xusia]

Started cutting the front end into bite sized pieces.

https://vimeo.com/44637064

Just out of curiousity, what is the reason for doing this?

[Mechie3]

Just out of curiousity, what is the reason for doing this?

I'm hungry, and can't eat a whole car at once. :D

The only trailer I have is a 5'x8' with a load limit of 800 lbs. It's the trailer for my Fmod and I'd rather not damage it hauling scrap. I also have no way of lifting an entire chassis onto a (too small) trailer. Cutting it into manageable sized pieces lets me easily load the trailer, use my existing trailer, and makes it easy for me.

A local builder of Locost7's uses S2000's as donors and said you can title the 818 in Indiana as a WRX, albeit heavily modified. To do this, you need the original VIN stamps on the car, and the original chassis must be cut up. You need to get the car appraised though for insurance purposes. Haven't looked into all the details myself though.

[WonderDude]

:)
https://vimeo.com/44358087
https://vimeo.com/44557615
https://vimeo.com/44583620
https://vimeo.com/44637064

MAN YOU WORK FAST! ...LOL! ;)
Have you considered opening your own shop? :cool:

[metalmaker12]

Subarus come apart easy man, took me 12 total hours to strip one clean

[Nuul]

A local builder of Locost7's uses S2000's as donors and said you can title the 818 in Indiana as a WRX, albeit heavily modified. To do this, you need the original VIN stamps on the car, and the original chassis must be cut up. You need to get the car appraised though for insurance purposes. Haven't looked into all the details myself though.

It looks like you might be able to get a new VIN as well.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/50-insurance-registration-discussions/193445-indiana-title-registration-process.html

[WonderDude]

Subarus come apart easy man, took me 12 total hours to strip one clean

Yeah, but if you watch Mechie3's videos, he took it apart in like a minute and 35 seconds! :D

[Mechie3]

Ha! I could speed the videos up and do it even faster! One thing that has been slowing me down is not knowing what I need to keep so EVERY last bolt goes into a baggie that gets labeled. That itself takes a bit of time.

As for old VIN new VIN, I haven't decided which is easiest or best. One reason the builder might do the old vin is because he doesn't need to inspect every car they make.

I've considered opening a shop, but haven't for various reasons. I get paid rather handsomely at work as an engineer and they allow me free reign of the machine shop (lathe, mill, CNC's). It would be hard to quit that. I'm also not quite 30 yet, so don't have the capital to open a shop.

[NicksPapaw]

Wow Mechie3, I am impressed. You make that car look like a big tinker toy. I would be photographing every part and putting in a baggie with a label since once I go to bed I tend to forget what the heck I did the previous night. :) Apparently, this ain't your first subie tear down. It will be mine.

[Mechie3]

My first full teardown, but I've owned the car and put lots of wrench time into it over the last 6 years. Plenty of bolts I can just look at and know where they go. As someone else said though, Subies do come apart rather easily.

[wallace18]

After doing a 5 year resto on a Corvette, I can't tell you enough how much it helps to label wires, Bags of parts and take lots of photos for future referance. It will make things much easier. Also buy one of the PDF manuals for your donor. It has been a big help to me.

[Mechie3]

I have an 06 specific FSM and if you search Ken Gilbert STI on google you'll find one specific to the 04STI (mechanicals are similar, wiring is different).

I did use tape/marker to label every connector too. It would be a nightmare otherwise. Wait...it probably still will be, just not as long.

[metalmaker12]

10438104391044010441104421044310444104451044610447

I have some more to upload later

[Mechie3]

You may have mentioned before, but is that a twin scroll from a spec c or JDM model?

[Xusia]

Those are some very nice looking parts. You are very lucky that nice lady hit you! ;)

[Mechie3]

I think you confused me (guy with totaled wrx due to lady running red) with metalmaker (guy posting pics of clean parts). :)

[metalmaker12]

It is a late Jdm version 8, with the vf37 twinscroll, it has the c markings on the block casting, for the block, but the true spec c gets ported heads. and yea no lady hit my donor lol, it was bought to strip,, though that is a great story to tell your grandkids.

[shinn497]

how did you obtain a jdm car to strip?

I would love to do that, but I don't want to deal with importing one or the sti tranny...

[Mechie3]

Pulled the exhaust, rear bumper, bumper beam, and trailer hitch. One of the weld nuts broke off and caused some trouble. Had to do some cutting to access the inside of the frame and get the nut off.

https://vimeo.com/44781094

[NicksPapaw]

You might want to save the trailer hitch. Looks like the 818 might be a little short on luggage space. :p

[Xusia]

I think you confused me (guy with totaled wrx due to lady running red) with metalmaker (guy posting pics of clean parts). :)

Yeah, I didn't see it was metalmaker12 that posted the pics. I thought it was you. :)

[metalmaker12]

My donor was a usdm 02 wrx, the motor was purchased separately. Don't be afraid of getting the 6spd, it will be much easier to fit than many think, and you can always sell it for good money. I have a 02 wrx 5spd with a RA gearset on the way waiting to install and a 04 sti 6spd, there within a couple inches of each other. I will get 6spd to work as well. Theses cars usdm/jdm are like soooo interchangeable it is crazy. I would get a solid wrx and go from there. You will need 15,000-22,000 total for this build. I would lean more towards 20k to play it safe.

[Mechie3]

My garage is getting kinda dirty.

Emptying gas and dropping rear subframe/suspension:
https://vimeo.com/45014281

Dropping gas tank and cutting floorpan up:
https://vimeo.com/45108670

[TY2185]

Can't wait to find mine! Cool time elapse video.

[Mechie3]

Someone wanted to buy my rear quarter panel skins and door jams to do a widebody conversion on a wagon (for those interested, see here http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2143885 ) Got those cut off and cut up the rear. Where there once was a car there's now a dirty floor and a pile of cut up scrap.

https://vimeo.com/45210402

[flynntuna]

Look like great therapy, the last time someone hit my car it took me a while to get over the anger issues. Knowing the heart and soul of your car will continue on must be helpfull.

[wallace18]

Well I have been busy restoring the front wheel assemblies and rack. Here is a picture of the rack after I depowered it and replaced boots and ends. I'll send photos of the engine upgrade soon. Lots of cleaning and painting parts for assembly so far.

10557

[Mechie3]

Nice. I took apart one of my rear hubs yesterday. Bearing was a bit loose. Everything is a bit rusty from spending the first three years of existence in upstate NY. Plan to wire wheel it all and paint it.

[Xusia]

Nice rack! LOL

[apexanimal]

Well I have been busy restoring the front wheel assemblies and rack. Here is a picture of the rack after I depowered it and replaced boots and ends. I'll send photos of the engine upgrade soon. Lots of cleaning and painting parts for assembly so far.

10557

did you do anything internally, or just the hoses?

[wallace18]

did you do anything internally, or just the hoses?

I removed the lines,hoses and clamps. Then blocked off some and joined the center lines. Nothing internal. Seems to work just fine. TEHO.

[metalmaker12]

I would remove the inner seal,add a lot of greese and weld the pinion neck solid, it will be much faster if you do so. But to each there own

[SkiRideDrive]

I was curious about this welding of the pinion neck and found this resource: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=335874&highlight=weld+pinion+shaft%20(http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=335874&highlight=weld+pinion+shaft

[wallace18]

Here are pictures of my redone RF wheel assembly and intake. I replaced the wheel bearings, seals, lower balljoint, rotor and pads. I painted the caliper. On the intake I replaced all gaskets, hoses and upgraded injectors from AJW. I painted the top of the manifold and injector shields. I am going to replace all vacuum and water hoses as well.

1057710578

[Xusia]

Nice!

[thestigwins]

I am jealous, I want to be working on a donor. It's time to start looking for one I suppose.


Looks good Wallace! Keep up the good work and I enjoy seeing everyones progress.

[Mechie3]

Wallace, looks good. Not sure how familiar you are with Subarus, but most people ditch the injector shields. They're commonly known as the "Green Brackets of Death" or, GBOD. Makes changing injectors, o-rings, or anything else in that area difficult with them installed.

[wallace18]

They were only 4 bolts each side. I figuired Subaru would not put them there if they did not think they were needed. JMO.

[Mechie3]

At least when installed on the car they're difficult to take off and fish out. They were designed to protect the injectors in case of a large frontal impact.

[RM1SepEx]

1062710626106281062910630I finally attacked my 05 donor today...

14 hours later...
about 200 lbs of wire loom sitting inside the car
engine and transmission sitting on a dolley
many beat up knuckles
many smiles and several opportunities to take out my saws all, actually destroyed one cutting the front supports and some of the front "frame" where it was accident damaged (luckily I have two!)
lots of plastic interior pieces
seats, doors and many miscellaneous parts all boxed up
suspension and diff next!

Sorry about the poor image quality, using the throw away camera with the greasy hands! Forgot to reset the date after the batteries died too...

[Mechie3]

The wiring is the only part that I find daunting. So much interlinking of stuff that you have to be careful what you cut out, and what you don't.

Got another video made yesterday. Nothing too exciting like chopping up a car. I think right now that the one section of my garage floor is cleaner than your kitchen floor. I'm not sure if that's sad or awesome. I'm going with awesome. Too bad there's a few new rust stains. :sadbanana:

https://vimeo.com/45553694

This is how you fit a WRX onto a 6'x8' trailer:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/2012-07-10_22-43-42_107.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/2012-07-10_22-43-16_973.jpg

[wallace18]

Question for Subaru experts. There are 2 small tubes bolted to the intercooler on my 2002 WRX. Were do they go to on each side? My donor had lots of ripped out vacuum lines and I am trying to get everything correct as I assemble the motor. Thanks for any help. T.W.

[Nuul]

Grab the field service manual from this (http://ken-gilbert.com/impreza-manuals) site. It's a Godsend when you're not sure what connects to what.

[wallace18]

10/4 thanks.

[flytosail]

The wiring is the only part that I find daunting. So much interlinking of stuff that you have to be careful what you cut out, and what you don't.

Got another video made yesterday. Nothing too exciting like chopping up a car. I think right now that the one section of my garage floor is cleaner than your kitchen floor. I'm not sure if that's sad or awesome. I'm going with awesome. Too bad there's a few new rust stains. :sadbanana:

https://vimeo.com/45553694

This is how you fit a WRX onto a 6'x8' trailer:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/2012-07-10_22-43-42_107.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/2012-07-10_22-43-16_973.jpg


Great work. Only suggestion is to place a large tarp on the trailer prior to putting parts on it. That way you can just fold up the tarp around it when you take it to the yard. Twice I have had incidents where people stuff came off their roof or truck bed.

[RM1SepEx]

So... I LIED!!! the wiring only weighs about 40 lbs, I put it in a big plastic tub and tossed it on my bathroom scale...

Back to my coffee, suspension bits etc starts now!

[Mechie3]

Great work. Only suggestion is to place a large tarp on the trailer prior to putting parts on it. That way you can just fold up the tarp around it when you take it to the yard. Twice I have had incidents where people stuff came off their roof or truck bed.

I was going to wrap a canvas tarp over teh top of it and strap it down with every ratchet strap I own (~10). No way I'd go down the street with it just as it is.

[RM1SepEx]

another 10 hrs today

now there isn't a single bolt on the chassis that hasn't been removed
the bone yard is hauling it away tomorrow!

I discovered that my steering rack is trashed from the roll over, need to find a rack
So my Copart roll over had a broken front wheel, broken lower control arm and busted rack
shopping time!

Next question: Anyone have a trick to get that damn cross bolt out of the rear suspension? My 650 ft lb air gun can't break the bolt free...

TRime to start listing parts for sale on craigslist and the Sube forums! yeee haaa

[Mechie3]

The first time I took mine off to upgrade the bushings I had to use an angle grinder to cut the head off and point it through with a punch. Anyone doing work with that bolt typically buys new bolts before starting in anticipation of it getting cut.

[wallace18]

Here is my latest pictures. I am waiting on new coolant hoses to continue. Also I cut my right index finger putting on the S/S clamps . I am waiting for a little healing before moving on. Here is 2. By the way AJW has been a great source for parts and help. They offer very good prices as well as excellant service. Much better than other sources I have contacted. I recommend them highly.

1068010681

[RM1SepEx]

looks nice, what type of reconditioning did you do? timing belt, head gaskets etc... ?

[wallace18]

I bought a 2002 WRX from a Sheriffs ranch. It is a place for wayward boys to repair cars. They got over their heads with the subaru. The car had 276,000 miles on it. But it came with a zero miles CCR rebuilt 2.0 EJ motor in the trunk. The engine has been totally recon to stock specs with lots of new parts. This was too good for me to pass on. The car was butchered under the hood but I am slowly fixing everything. I am installing a performance kit suggested by AJW on the rebuilt motor. I just have to recon the brackets and such. I am replacing all hoses and such. It has been fun learning the Subie stuff. I hope you can enjoy the ride with me. thanks, T.W.

[rhenry01]

Here is my major donor car. It's an '04 that tangled with a van. The gentleman that owned it from when it was new took OCD care of the car and had all the records. He let the insurance drop to minimum coverage and it would have cost him far too much to repair the car. I picked it up for a song and a dance. I have sold over $600 worth of interior pieces. which brings the cost in under $1,500.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10662&d=1342195839

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10665&d=1342195842

And several hours later .....
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10674&d=1342195851

And as soon as every unboltable piece is removed from the car A local recycle-er is giving me $500 for the shell.

[Xusia]

That looks super clean and nice. Great job!

[RM1SepEx]

no wonder it looks so clean! I'm torn as to how much I should do on a 70k motor... It appears to only have AEM intake and filter as the only mod, turbo down and up pipes, turbo etc are stock and original

Since it's an unknown I was thinking:

pull the heads, check the bores and replace head gaskets
replace timing belt and water pump, tensioners etc
powder coat cam covers, brackets etc
pull oil pan, replace oil pump, check main bearings
powder coat oil pan
clean up all the exhaust covers etc...
delete ps pump and ac comp, modify brackets and tensioner, powdercoat as required
thoughs????

(now back to a 1/2 done brake job on one of my winter beaters, a 93 Civic Del Sol SI)

[Mechie3]

You can't check main bearings without splitting the block and doing a full tearsown. At that point you're doing a full build and adding quite a bit of cost. Obviously easier to do it now nut if the car looks to be stock and on decent condition there's no reason you can't get several years of DD use out of it as it sits.

[RM1SepEx]

decent condition? haha... i found many beer bottle caps under the seats etc... Easy to guess why/how it got rolled over!
I'll trust that the bearings are good vs splitting the block and doing everything, that's why I wanted a low mileage donor, to avoid a total rebuild!

Since I currently have 10 cars/trucks it is safe to say an 818 won't see more than 4000 miles per year...

[rhenry01]

Doble post :(

[Mechie3]

If it rolled, I'd at least pull the oil pan and check for metal flakes. If it ran for an extended period while upside down, that could be bad. You could also reach 3 of the 4 rod bearings and wiggle them.

[wallace18]

You seem to have a good plan RM1SepX. The original motor in my donor went 276K. That shows how tough these motors can be.

[RM1SepEx]

If it rolled, I'd at least pull the oil pan and check for metal flakes. If it ran for an extended period while upside down, that could be bad. You could also reach 3 of the 4 rod bearings and wiggle them.

pan's coming off for sure to get powder coated... I can't remember who borrowed my engine stand years ago so I'll be getting a new one and cleaning everything up

[Oppenheimer]

It seems like the Subaru 'safety ring' really works. In your rollover pics you can see both the front and rear of the roof are crushed in, but the center held, preventing further roof collapse. Well built cars.

[AJW Performance]

Here is my latest pictures. I am waiting on new coolant hoses to continue. Also I cut my right index finger putting on the S/S clamps . I am waiting for a little healing before moving on. Here is 2. By the way AJW has been a great source for parts and help. They offer very good prices as well as excellant service. Much better than other sources I have contacted. I recommend them highly.

1068010681

That's one clean motor you have coming together Tom, looking good!

[wallace18]

Well I am getting closer. Just a few more hoses and wires to hook up. Next I'll install the clutch and flywheel. I am waiting on my trans to come back from a rebuild.

1077310774

[riptide motorsport]

Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mechie3]

All the videos in one. Total elapsed time (not counting cutting off the roof, the doors, or interior, which didn't get caught on video) was about 16 hours.

https://vimeo.com/46070474

[Gus]

Nice vid!

Can't wait to see what you will come up with when you build your 818!!!

[mjpeters]

I love the time lapse video of the tear down. :)

[wooward]

My 04 STi rear endlinks are bent. My car is still driveable so I'm going to replace them. Should I just buy OEM replacements for ~$60 or get TurnInConcepts replacements for ~$115. I'm thinking the TIC ones so I don't have to worry about them bending again everytime I jack up my car.

[Zodiac]

that sure is a nice looking engine you got. did you get the entire heads colored or just the valve covers? I was thinking of doing the same thing myself. never done it before though. what did you do to get it done? powder coat or that engine paint they sell at like autozone?

[wallace18]

I just used high temp engine paint on the manifold and valve covers. I used Eastwood paint products on the rest and chassis parts.

[Mechie3]

My 04 STi rear endlinks are bent. My car is still driveable so I'm going to replace them. Should I just buy OEM replacements for ~$60 or get TurnInConcepts replacements for ~$115. I'm thinking the TIC ones so I don't have to worry about them bending again everytime I jack up my car.

I would wait. On the prototype they don't even have swaybars so you might not need anything. If they do go with swaybars I would use the kartboy upgrades.

If you're talking about replacements on a subaru and not the 818 id still go kartboy from TIC.

[bugeye_fever]

How do you bend endlikes jacking up the car? I've never run into that problem.

Edit: I guess I'd have to add that I've had billet whiteline end links since day one..

[wallace18]

If anyone is getting rid of the P/S on their WRX NAPA part # 050264SF works fine for just the Alt in this application. Be warned they don't give them away. $45.

[wooward]

Thanks for the responses on endlinks. A common problem on the 04 STI and maybe other years is the sway bar flipping. It can occur if you jack up your car and set it down wrong or just flip on it's on while driving. Not sure how mine got bent. Since I plan to drive the car for the next year or two, I'm gonna get a set of TIC links. They are a little longer than OEM so they're supposed to prevent the rear swaybar from flipping.

[Nuul]

All the videos in one. Total elapsed time (not counting cutting off the roof, the doors, or interior, which didn't get caught on video) was about 16 hours.

https://vimeo.com/46070474

Nice, I hadn't seen the combined one. Every time I watch one of these I hear the Benny Hill theme song, I'm not sure why.

[Xusia]

Every time I watch one of these I hear the Benny Hill theme song, I'm not sure why.

Because that's some funny stuff!! :D

[skullandbones]

True. It was very funny! But I was impressed because it seems like you were incredibly organized in the way you did the task. Thanks for sharing! WEK.

[Mechie3]

Nice, I hadn't seen the combined one. Every time I watch one of these I hear the Benny Hill theme song, I'm not sure why.

You're the second person to say that. I actually had to wikipedia/youtube it to find out what it was. Guess I'm not old enough.


True. It was very funny! But I was impressed because it seems like you were incredibly organized in the way you did the task. Thanks for sharing! WEK.

It was somewhat organized though it was messier in person. The trays my wife gets from the hospital sure help. Makes it easy to pick parts off, dump them in groups, and then take care of them later.

:)

[RM1SepEx]

Just assembled the new engine stand today
does everyone use straps through the intake runners to lift the motor? (I did when I pulled the engine and transaxle)
I'm used to motors that have dedicated pulling brackets/loops
Next week pull some parts to powder coat and removing the PS pump and AC compressor, modifying the brackets

[Samiam1017]

I'm planing on pulling my motor this week. What's the best way to do this. Out the top, the bottom,with or with out the tranny. When I'm done I need to leave a rolling chassis so I can't just hack it up.. Also I'm looking into a rebuild? Anybody reputable in the Northeast United States.

[PhyrraM]

The "official" lift points are a stamped steel ring on the passenger rear (opposite the starter) and the steel air-conditioning/alternator bracket at the front.

I've used the intake many times without problems. You can also use the water crossover pipe if the manifold is off.

[RM1SepEx]

The "official" lift points are a stamped steel ring on the passenger rear (opposite the starter) and the steel air-conditioning/alternator bracket at the front.

I've used the intake many times without problems. You can also use the water crossover pipe if the manifold is off.

I see the hole in the alternator bracket, the "ring" opposite the starter, do you mean the hole in the intercooler support?

they look to be well positioned and plenty strong

[Mechie3]

I use the stamped steel bracket that supports the intercooler and the aluminum bracket that supports the AC/alternator.

[2006 WRB 818]

I use the stamped steel bracket that supports the intercooler and the aluminum bracket that supports the AC/alternator.

I just pulled mine out of the donor a couple days ago, those were the points I used.

[wallace18]

Well I finished reconditioning my LR wheel/Hub assembly today. New brakes, rotor, wheel bearing and seals. I painted every thing after blasting it clean. I also installed my alt belt sans A/C and P/S. Not too much left to do till trans comes back. Does anyone know what axle they are using in the back. My trans has female CV and I am wondering what the go cart used.

1094810949

[metalmaker12]

i will be posting my motor next week, looking good bro

[Samiam1017]

Two quick questions. Am I correct in seeing thats there's only one big whole car harness and not a separate one for the engine? And if so are they year/ model specific?

[metalmaker12]

There is three harnesses, engine loom harness, engine bay harness and under dash harness.
You should try to match them up, but they can be used together with some slight reworking 02-07 wrx/sti

[wallace18]

Don't forget the harness for the fuel pump, fuel gauge and tailights.

[Mechie3]

The motors changed location, type, and number of sensors over the years. The engine harness to chassis harness connectors also changed. Easiest bet is to match up the motor year with the harness year.

[BipDBo]

This is my favorite 818 thread so far. I love seeing all of the nuts and bolts coming together, especially because the car hasn't even been revealed yet.

[Samiam1017]

Two quick questions. Am I correct in seeing thats there's only one big whole car harness and not a separate one for the engine? And if so are they year/ model specific?

Ok maybe I should rephrase this... By engine harness I mean more than just the part that's on the motor. I also ment the wiring that goes to the ecu, and other sensors/controls not directly mounted on the engine. Like voltage sensor,boost controller,ect..... The wires come off the ecu go up behind the heater box. Then Appears to branch off and go deeper into the dash and some split out of the loom out to engine bay. So one whole car harness? And not a separate engine system? And they are year specific?

[metalmaker12]

The whole car harness. It comes out in sections, start to take it apart and you will see. Yes they have changed a bit over the years. You need all the wiring off a wrx to use the turbo engine. Example: a 06-07 complete car harness( engine bay, engine loom, under dash, and rear section) and a motor and ecu to match those years, or some modification will be needed. My example: I have a 02-03 wrx complete car wiring set up, but I am using a 06-07 jdm sti engine. I am going to have to use the TGV wires to run my AVCS. The good thing about my jdm engine is that it has no TGV's like USDM cars, so I can use those wires to run the aka varable valve timing (Subaru Avcs). The boost controller is on the intake

[Mechie3]

06 and 07 changed engine harnesses. Both cars have the airpump. 06 can ditch the airpump and all valves and associated wiring. 07 needs to retain part of one of the valves as it contains a secondary air pressure sensor that is not found on the 06.

To make life easy, match the year of the motor with the year of the harness. Even the ECU plugs changed slightly from year to year.

[RM1SepEx]

The harness runs in weird locations, I'm guessing due to being both LHD and RHD configurations. I think that you end up with 4 or 5 sections, and it depends what you mean by sections. I "expanded" the holes through the side of the fender well and under the dash to make it easier to drag the harness through. Any excuse to attack with a saws all you know! The "antenna wire" wraps around the whole car!

[apexanimal]

06 and 07 changed engine harnesses. Both cars have the airpump. 06 can ditch the airpump and all valves and associated wiring. 07 needs to retain part of one of the valves as it contains a secondary air pressure sensor that is not found on the 06.

To make life easy, match the year of the motor with the year of the harness. Even the ECU plugs changed slightly from year to year.

i've been trying to follow threads on airpump deletes... do you have threads that detail their removal? i'm very interested... thanks!!

[Zodiac]

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/how-install/115457-remnexs-how-series-air-pump-removal.html

best one i could find

[Mechie3]

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/how-install/115457-remnexs-how-series-air-pump-removal.html

best one i could find

That's only a partial removal.

They left both valves in place (or in the case of the 07 sti, there is only 1 valve, but they left it in), and left the hard airline connected to the passenger side head (probably because you can't remove it with the stock uppipe in place). That's another several pounds of stuff (and clutter).

from one thread (regarding 07+ cars, not 06).


am 100% sure about the Baro sensor. You can turn the codes off to keep them from throwing a CEL. But the sub-routines within the ecu remain active. You can however delete the air pump and all associated hardare (and codes) expect for the actuator it self. That's what has the baro sensor in it. Without it the ecu has no reference to actually atmospheric pressure once the engine is running. I learned this from experience on an 07 Sti. We eliminated the whole system. I had tuning issues. Then we found out that the actuator has the sensor in it. We simply put the actuator back and hooked up electrically. And vuala! Happy ecu again.


Big long tech discussion:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1209260&highlight=valve

One variation of the entire system (my 06 was a little different).
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/airpump.jpg

[apexanimal]

so, let me see if i've got it:

the 07's need to retain the drivers side sensor on egr valve, but still need associated codes turned off...
the 06 wrx can have all hardware removed and associated codes turned off...
<06 don't have airpumps...

?right?

the egr valve is part of this system and can be removed?

[Mechie3]

so, let me see if i've got it:

the 07's need to retain the drivers side sensor on egr valve, but still need associated codes turned off...
the 06 wrx can have all hardware removed and associated codes turned off...
<06 don't have airpumps...

?right?

the egr valve is part of this system and can be removed?
pre 06WRX: No air pump/valves
06 WRX: airpump and 2 valves, remove everything, block of ports in head
07 WRX/STI: airpump and 1 (?) valve, remove everything except the sensor in the top of the valve needs to be retained (it can be cut out of the valve)
pre 07 STI: nothing is there


Also, it's not an EGR valve. It's just a valve that opens/shuts to allow fresh air to be pumped into the heads on the exhaust side in order to reduce pollutants.

[apexanimal]

^ got it... yeah i know that there's more than the egr involved, but the egr is involved and can be removed in this process?


i wish in those long threads they'd update the first post so you don't have to wade through endless pages of info... it's exhausting...

[Mechie3]

WRX have no EGR valves.

[PhyrraM]

What's the push to remove stuff? It has no effect on power generation, keeps the ECU happy and keeps the trees as happy as they are going to be with a turbo subaru anyways. Removing EGR and airpumps seems to be '80s thinking and is very low on the effort/reward scale.

I'm not really hating, just not understanding either.....

[apexanimal]

WRX have no EGR valves.

ahhh... didn't know that either...

[Mechie3]

What's the push to remove stuff? It has no effect on power generation, keeps the ECU happy and keeps the trees as happy as they are going to be with a turbo subaru anyways. Removing EGR and airpumps seems to be '80s thinking and is very low on the effort/reward scale.

I'm not really hating, just not understanding either.....

Few reasons:

Random people have had failures of the pump or the valves in their WRX (not a lot, but you hear about it every few months). Cost to replace is quite high.
Cramped engine bay. Changing spark plugs required you remove the airpump. Clutches also required you remove the pump and put it back (PITA)
Weight savings. My WRX was my autocross car. It took a decent amount of weight off the front of the car. Same reason I removed the AC.
Location: It mounts to the strut tower. Doubt the 818 will have a provision to mount it.

[PhyrraM]

Fair enough. I can see all of those except the last. FFR has an '06 as a donor, so I expect that it will accomodated.

[Mechie3]

I wouldn't think so. They'd drop it to reduce weight and make packaging easier given how easy it is to remove it and turn of any CEL's.

[wallace18]

Today I installed the new flywheel and clutch assembly. My trans should be back from Andrewtech in a week with the LSD. I am getting closer all the time. Can't wait for SEMA and FFR to take orders.

11319

[RM1SepEx]

what route did you choose for the LSD? I've been looking to determine installation costs, can you please share some information with us?

[wallace18]

I had Andrewtech rebuild my trans for me. They were very highly recomended. The LSD was a Cusco 2-way for $1200. the total for the rebuild, LSD and shipping was $2700. All the bearings, syncros and seals were replaced. Everything else was fine and reused. My donor had 276K on it. I did not want to put 375HP through the trans without rebuild.

[RM1SepEx]

my donor has 70k don't expect any issues with it, I just want to add an LSD. i WANT ONLY 220 whp... I was looking at the Quaife... Why did you choose the Cusco?

[wallace18]

That is what Andrewtech suggested.

[Mechie3]

IIRC, the OBX diff is a very well put together imitation of the Quaife. Several (read: quite a few) people on NASIOC have had excellent success with the OBX. It also cost a fraction of the Quaife.

[apexanimal]

^ yes, but you really really need to upgrade the hardware...

[RM1SepEx]

The obx costs about 1/2 but you have to rebuild it upon installation! I have many AutoX friends who swear by the quaife units... That's why I asked about your install

[metalmaker12]

Sti group n etc, quaife or cusco only in my opinion

[apexanimal]

does anyone have a link to info on the quaife at all?

[Samiam1017]

How's the Jdm factory LSD work? I think I seen versions with factory units.

[metalmaker12]

http://www.rallispec.com/prod_diff.htm

The Jdm ones work the same, they split the power evenly to both wheels? lol I am confused to the question beyond that
Heres cusco or subaru ones, I have a link for quaife, just gotta find it

[RM1SepEx]

Quaife is helical, no friction plates/discs to adjust/wear

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAIFE-LSD-Subaru-Impreza-AWD-Front-WRX-USA-/230624194582

What about a JDM helical... Anyone have experience with the Subaru part, is it the std STI part?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Subaru-Impreza-Front-torsen-LSD-helical-GRB-sti-wrx-diff-differential-ratio-/180950575944?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a217eab48&vxp=mtr

[Samiam1017]

http://www.rallispec.com/prod_diff.htm

The Jdm ones work the same, they split the power evenly to both wheels? lol I am confused to the question beyond that
Heres cusco or subaru ones, I have a link for quaife, just gotta find it

I know what they do. But do they work fine? The "versions". Refers to eBay ads that say version 6. Version 7. Is that a different way to reference years ? I see it with motors and tran.

[Mechie3]

JDM motors often go by versions, whereas USDM is usually referenced by model year/type (bugeye, blob eye, etc). Don't remember which version is which, but JDM is usually 1 year ahead of us.

[metalmaker12]

version 6 99-01
version 7 01-03
version 8 03-05
version 9 05-07
than it went to years like us

[RM1SepEx]

Back to my donor parts today... My wife's Caddy (head gasket...) and my Dad's hospital visit have put some delay into my prep work!

removed AC comp and PS pump... many options to clean up the brackets to lose weight and make them look better, powder coating next week?

power washed everything, my engine looks very clean, not a ton of discoloration of the bare aluminum...
my STI control arms have some undercoating on them, I'll try acetone on them next, I'd like them to be nice and pretty for the build.

I'm going to pull the plugs and check for compression. What should I see from a good WRX motor in each cylinder? Can I expect the 185 PSI numbers that I see in my Miatas?

Time to get my LSD installed! Quaife, here I come.

Time for a timing belt, water pump and some powder coating for the motor too

[Sebxb]

I'm going to pull the plugs and check for compression. What should I see from a good WRX motor in each cylinder? Can I expect the 185 PSI numbers that I see in my Miatas?



T think it'S 155 psi

[Mechie3]

I usually see people post in the 130 to 155 range. Its a lower compression motor.

[RM1SepEx]

150 psi all cylinders within a lb or two so i'm good to go

the acetone cleaned up the AL control arms nicely

FYI steel LCA 8 lbs, AL LCA 6 lbs...

modified my PS/alternator bracket... ready to powder coat, next the Alternator/AC bracket. I want to leave the engine lifting loop, can someone remind me what bolts to the front boss with the two 6 mm holes about 1.5 inches apart on the front. I'm wondering if that small section can be removed before I powder coat...

Having issues seperating the transaxle from the engine. Any tricks out there? Doesn't appear to be any easy top get to areas to apply some leverage to start the split.

[wallace18]

You must pull the throwout bearing shaft out first. Remove the round cover on the dr side of trans and pull the shaft.

[metalmaker12]

130-150psi range
Yes second that, once you do that it should come apart easy. This is true with most transmissions
I got an act clutch kit and a gates timing kit today to work on the engine.

[Mechie3]

Only pull trans need the fork separated, the 06 is a push and doesn't need to be separated first. Can't remember which year you have.

The holes are for the ac tensioner bracket.

[RM1SepEx]

05 WRX, 70k miles, copart

Tensioner bracket... right the black plastic wheel arrangement! duh

You can see how I modified the two alternator brackets in the photo

I did pull the shaft/clutch fork, Thanks to whoever posted the on line service manual link!

I've been reviewing the transaxle section, there may be too many special tools required to make doing the Quaife myself a reasonable proposition... :-( Time to check with the local Subaru community that I autocross with.

I've been tapping around the bellhousing and it finally released to where I can see a very fine break line against the block. I'm sure that I could get more leverge if I didn't pull the engine and transaxle as a single unit...

I'll get a friend or two to come over and increase the "pull points"

My timing belt and water pump are in route as well, after powder coating some parts the engine should be good to go next week.

Perhaps I should wait on the transaxle as it will needs to be de-output shafted etc... upon getting the kit. Do it all at once...

brakes and rear suspension bits next week too and I should have everything ready for kit release.

Anyone have some detail on the driveshafts? Do we mate inner fronts to outer rears? Which axles? We need the outer fronts in the front bearings as stub axles.

Since I'm keeping the engine essentially stock I'm considering leaving all the metal shields in place on the exhaust, anyone have a good method for sprucing them up?

check out the AL LCAs... cleaned up pretty well with acetone and a power washer session

[PhyrraM]

Steel wool or even Brillo pads work well on the heat shields.

FFR hasn't said anything on halfshafts yet. I'm guessing that either a)the inner or outer joint is swapped on one pair of axles if the splines match or b)FFR will provide a custom shaft to use front inner and rear outer joints.

There are two alignment pins (one at 3:00 and one at 9:00) that can be quite tight on a virgin assembly. Also, on the newer motor (all WRXs) all 6 bolts and 2 lower nuts need to be out. This drops the starter. I only mention it because if your used to earlier motors, the lower starter bolt can stay in.

[RM1SepEx]

Won't they just oxidize rapidly if I use steel wool or brillo pads on them? Those dowel pins must be holding on for dear life!

Thanks for the info, I have to go pack for tomorrow's autocross

[wallace18]

LCA's look good.

[PhyrraM]

Won't they just oxidize rapidly if I use steel wool or brillo pads on them? .......

Not sure, I've never crawled underneath to look. Some of the covers feel like they might be aluminum, so they wouldn't. The steel ones likely would. What about the home CAD plating kits from Eastwood?

[RM1SepEx]

Perhaps high temp powder coating or paint from eastwood?

So today I got some help and we wiggled and pulled to get the tranaxle off... yeah

now it's clutch time... looking for inputs, don't want it too heavy...

my goal is 220 whp so 260 or so engine hp... the flywheel may need resurfacing, sitting for months in a salvage yard left some garbage from the disc and the pressure plate shows some burnt areas... I'm sure it would function fine but a new clutch kit is in the plan...

next area for input... lighter flywheel? 12lbs in chrome moly looks very reasonable, I don't want the hassle of aluminum with a multi part assembly

new rear main seal going in tomorrow

[Mechie3]

I made 243 who on my 06 and always used the exert own replacement clutch. Around $230 or so on amazon. Wrx guys did that to protect the trans and make the clutch the weak link.

Don't push the rear main all the way in. Make ir flush. Otherwise oil runs out. Ask me how I know.

[RM1SepEx]

BTW stock flywheel = 23 lbs!

I think stock clutch should hold up fine as well but no I have no WRX experience... :-)

[apexanimal]

from all the research i've done 14lbs is about as light as you want to go with the flywheel... otherwise it'll throw the misfire codes...

[PhyrraM]

Also, if your planning on a lightweight crank pully, leave the flywheel stock. "One or the other" seems to be the rule to avoid misfire codes.

FWIW, I've had my clutch 'glued' together after an extended period of sitting. One I got them to seperate (by cranking in 4th gear a few times) there were no ill effects and I have another 10K miles on it since.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm sure that my setup would work just fine... just scuff off the glazing etc... I just want it done and new so I can forget about it in my 818... I mean, hell the engine's out right now... :-)

The aluminum flywheels weigh 9.5 lbs...

[Racebrewer]

Hi,

What code gets thrown?

I'm not a Subie guy. More Honda/Mazda etc than anything.

Thanks,
John

[PhyrraM]

what code gets thrown?


..... Otherwise it'll throw the misfire codes...

hth

[Rasmus]

Also, if your planning on a lightweight crank pully, leave the flywheel stock. "One or the other" seems to be the rule to avoid misfire codes.

I run both right now on my daily:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/RasmusHansen/SubaruParts/IMG_4586.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/RasmusHansen/SubaruParts/IMG_4585.jpg
Unorthordox Racing pulleys

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/RasmusHansen/SubaruParts/IMG_3768.jpg
Crazy light flywheel (mated to an OEM replacement clutch and pressure plate). 4.254 kg = 9.38 lb

How did I avoid the code?Told the ECU to ignore it with Romraider, the opensource ECU tuner for Scoobies. EDIT. Was wrong. I never disables those codes. See this thread for more. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7440-Lightweight-Flywheel-and-Pulleys-and-the-Subaru-Boxer-CEL&p=71259#post71259)

[apexanimal]

^ i thought about doing that with the romraider, but i was worried about not being notified of a real misfire...

[Rasmus]

Here's a quote from Grimmspeed (maker of aftermarket parts):


Unfortunately this is not a simple yes or no answer. Because there are reports of issues with almost every lightweight flywheel out there throwing check engine lights under various circumstances with the OEM crank pulley, we cannot definitively say you will not have issues with check engine lights when you install our lightweight crank pulley with your lightweight flywheel. We can say for certain that you will not have any issues with check engine lights if you are installing our lightweight crank pulley with an OEM flywheel. And because our pulley is not the lightest pulley available, your chances of having a check engine light with a lightweight flywheel will be significantly reduced. To further complicate the issue, engines with single cam position sensors are more susceptible to check engine lights when a lightweight flywheel and lightweight crank pulley is installed together. So to summarize, a dual cam position sensor engine with a "heavier" lightweight flywheel, and our lightweight crank pulley would be unlikely to have any misfire check engine lights where a single cam position sensor engine with the "lightest" lightweight flywheel and our lightweight crank pulley will be the more susceptible to a check engine light.

Hope that helps,

Justin Grimm

I only canceled the crank position sensor fault code on mine. I left the cylinder misfire fault codes intact. I too wanted the CEL to fire for that. My motor (2004 WRX) runs a single crank position sensor. Haven't' had a single issue in 2.5 years with cylinder misfire codes and the lightweight flywheel/pulley combo.

[RM1SepEx]

I've done some more research and the 12.5 lb flywheel with the stock balancer should be a relatively "safe" setup. Many have provided feedback as to long term use with no code issues on several Sube forums. When coupled with a non-damped harmonic balancer it's possible for it to determine that you are experiencing knock, the ecu will then react to a non-existant knock.

[Rasmus]

When coupled with a non-damped harmonic balancer...
Boxer motors don't come with or need damped harmonic balancers. The OEM unit is just a (heavy) pulley with no damper. Boxers are inherently balanced.

[Arrowhead]

On the subject of light weight flywheels, my son bought one for his '02 WRX and a Stage I clutch (from another company). Well long story short, the new clutch and flywheel were installed and there was an interference problem. Aparently, the aluminum flywheel was thicker and had to be swapped out for a stock flywheel and then it was perfectly fine. Don't have the specifics hand on the part numbers, but I can get them if needed.

[RM1SepEx]

sorry my "old school, V engine terminology crept in" avoid lighter flywheel and crank pulley, total rotating mass can get too low. You can go low enough to get knock like harmonic issues that may cause the CEL for knocking and the computer will detune your engine management to avoid the potentially damaging knock condition that isn't really there.
a 12.5 lb flywheel and stock crank pulley are apparently low risk, and is what I'm ordering.

[Mechie3]

I ran a 12lb flywheel, 1 lb crank pulley, and no AC for several years without any issue. Only misfire codes I ever got where due to actual misfires from poor battery contacts. Cleaned the contacts, car ran fine (only ever misfired at idle when cold, when it did do it).

Any motor with AVCS has dual cam sensors.

[RM1SepEx]

What other mods are on your motor Mechie3? did you ever get your WRX on a dyno?

[apexanimal]

Here's a quote from Grimmspeed (maker of aftermarket parts):



I only canceled the crank position sensor fault code on mine. I left the cylinder misfire fault codes intact. I too wanted the CEL to fire for that. My motor (2004 WRX) runs a single crank position sensor. Haven't' had a single issue in 2.5 years with cylinder misfire codes and the lightweight flywheel/pulley combo.

i've seen that post as well... good info...

my plan is a perrin pulley (it is lighter) and a "heavier" lightweight flywheel... if i continuously run into issues i might try what you did on the crank codes...

[Rasmus]

i've seen that post as well... good info...

my plan is a perrin pulley (it is lighter) and a "heavier" lightweight flywheel... if i continuously run into issues i might try what you did on the crank codes...
The thing about the lightweight flywheel/pulley combo is I've only heard or read second hand info from a guy who knew a guy who's car club buddy had a CEL. I've never read or talked to a person that actually had the problem. I've never had one my self. I just blanked the code based solely on the rumor.

It's just "reports" of a problem. It's like a urban legend that keeps propagating through the Subaru community and no amount of evidence will squash it. In fact I'm gonna fire up RomRaider and add the code back in tonight and see if it (ever) comes up.

[RCKSTR]

I've seen the CEL first hand from the car reving too fast due to the light weight mods and the car thinking it missfired. its not going to happen with every car but it is common. and another thing to remember is this car will be 2 wheel drive and not AWD anymore. I had my car RWD for a few seasons and from time to time my car would through the missfire CEL because of the same reasons for the lightweight mods, motor reving too fast and its not tuned for it. Even sometimes it can't be tuned out, some tuners say its best to have one or the other for a lightweight mod.

the car is tuned to not lose traction because of the awd... the ECU will be very confused lol

I'm assuming the 2wd will also have this effect as mine did. I'm just glad I'll be able to run some beefier tires in the rear :)

[PhyrraM]

While I admit I'm no expert, I find it hard to think it's about loss of traction or actually revving too fast - in and of itself..

I would think a more logical explaination is something to do with the interaction between an unusually long timing belt setup and rotational inertia. The cam sensor IS located at the very last cog from the crank. That's about 4-5 FEET of belt that stretches, even slightly, when the motor accelerates. Most cars have less than 1/2 of that linear belt length from the crank to cam sensors.

[rjh2pd]

i don't think that the belt will stretch enough to do anything, and if it's slipping you've got bigger problems

[RM1SepEx]

Ok I have the engine on the stand and I'm pulling stuff off to powder coat... looks like I'm doing tons of brackets, the valve covers, etc... not sure If I'm doing the intake runners... I should... :-)

I don't plan on adding headers... BUT using the existing header with the metal heat shields will be a PITA Not sure I want to go through the trouble of sand blasting and coating the shields with high temp powder...

So... Options
Cut/grind off the bosses for the shields, use eastwood temp reduction coating inside and wrap stock header
Break down and buy a header... where does it stop? My goal is only 220 WHP I don't need all those mods for my goals... why spend extra money?

How effective are the heat wraps? Does the cut/grind/coat/wrap scenario seam feasable?
is a cheap header an alternative vs grinding off the bosses on the cast manifolds? I see a ton on ebay for low $

thoughts please!

[PhyrraM]

If your going to powercoat stuff anyways, why not try one of those professional heat retention coatings? They generally get good reviews.

Wraps seem to work as well, but look like poo and would seem to need to be redone occasionally.

[RM1SepEx]

I powder coat in the garage with an eastwood setup and an old oven

anyone have some practical experience with the ceramic heat retention coatings?

How about feedback on the inexpensive 4 into 1, 1.5 inch primary headers? Those are the same size as a Borla...

[wallace18]

I got a great set of headers from AJW.

1167511676

[RM1SepEx]

details on your headers? They look like 39mm (1.5 in) primaries with slip joints under the cam covers into a 4:1 collector... do they have O2 sensor ports in the collector and the up pipe? Is the up pipe 51 mm (2 inch) or 57 mm (2 1/4) is there a flex section in the up pipe? Brand? Cost?

What else do you have, performance wise...

I'm not a big fan of the heat wraps though... though not ready to say that they look like poo.. :-)

what happens if we run w/o it? They look like they are stainless or chrome, I may investigate that ceramic coating.

[wallace18]

Here is the website on my headers.http://ajwperformanceproducts.com/store/#ecwid:mode=product&product=5307006
I also installed a HTA68 turbo, 750cc injectors, Walbro 244iph fuel pump, AMR intercooler, Invidia catless 3" downpipe, GrimmSpeed Boost controllerand Cobb intake. The exhaust has bungs for all O2 and EGT sensors. No Cats. Heavy duty clutch and LSD in the trans. I think you could have heat issues without the wrap. Ceramic coating may work.

[RM1SepEx]

Interesting header concept sort of inbetween most of the designs either very short on the turbo side or equal length... yours are longer on the turbo side but not "even"

I just read a couple of write ups on the forums and header design is not a well defined area of performance. The heat issues are also discussed in quite some depth. It appears that we can expect the power band to move up a few hundred RPM and the heat to cause some heat soak issues in the WRX. 15 HP and 15-20 FT LBS are common improvement #s I'm guessing that the 818 won't have that heat soak IC issue with a front mount radiator. and better air flow in the more open engine compartment.

I'm still not sure what route to go but "project creep" is working it's way in! :-)

Next problem... Pulling the oil pan, the dipstick isn't coming out of the pan very easily. Is there a trick to it? I have not pulled the timing covers as my belts, tensioners etc have not arrived yet. Can't remove the pan!

Any suggestions re oil pump replacement? While I'm here might as well just replace all the important pieces...

Thankx

Dan

[PhyrraM]

Next problem... Pulling the oil pan, the dipstick isn't coming out of the pan very easily. Is there a trick to it? I have not pulled the timing covers as my belts, tensioners etc have not arrived yet. Can't remove the pan!

........Thankx

Dan

The dipstick is only secured by one bolt near the top. The seal to the oilpan is simply 2 o-rings that are usually glued in place from time and heat. It can be a bit of a challange with the rear timing cover still in place, but doable with a bit of force and creative twisting.

[305mouse]

What other mods are on your motor Mechie3? did you ever get your WRX on a dyno?

He's competing at Nationals right now. I know if it was ESP legal to do to his car, he did it.

[Mechie3]

Thanks Jim. I can post more later when im not on a phone in a hotel in Nebraska. :lol: focusing on fmod today.

[RM1SepEx]

good luck at Nationals!!

[AJW Performance]

Interesting header concept sort of inbetween most of the designs either very short on the turbo side or equal length... yours are longer on the turbo side but not "even"

I just read a couple of write ups on the forums and header design is not a well defined area of performance. The heat issues are also discussed in quite some depth. It appears that we can expect the power band to move up a few hundred RPM and the heat to cause some heat soak issues in the WRX. 15 HP and 15-20 FT LBS are common improvement #s I'm guessing that the 818 won't have that heat soak IC issue with a front mount radiator. and better air flow in the more open engine compartment.

I'm still not sure what route to go but "project creep" is working it's way in! :-)

Next problem... Pulling the oil pan, the dipstick isn't coming out of the pan very easily. Is there a trick to it? I have not pulled the timing covers as my belts, tensioners etc have not arrived yet. Can't remove the pan!

Any suggestions re oil pump replacement? While I'm here might as well just replace all the important pieces...

Thankx

Dan

Plenty of pb blaster on the dipstick oring and then give it some good man love it should pop off. Should be able to drop it as one piece as well. The pans are FUJI bonded on so remove the bolts. and give it a little pry. The oil pump is right on the front of the motor behind the timing cover. Best bet is to replace it with a new OEM 11mm oil pump. One word of caution, be nice to the teeth on the crank gear. If one breaks off, the car will not start.

The Tomei kit that Wallace18 has comes with header wrap and ties all in one kit. Great bang for the buck. Theres a nice writeup on NASIOC on how to wrap a header properly.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2303664

Definetly the most thorough guide Ive seen.

Any other questions, just ask!
Tim

[Rasmus]

PB Blaster is great. I keep two cans in the garage at all times.

[RM1SepEx]

Thanks AJW,

I'm sure that the stuck dipstick will come free, it's been soaking with PB for almost a day.

I'm not a big fan of the "look" of the header wrap... with the relatively "open" engine bay how will the temperature of the exhaust affect the engine performance?

Can we "get away" with just a stainless header, no wrap, or a ceramic coated header? You have 3 coated headers from what I gather from both your website and extensive Ebay listings, the Borla and two Fast MS Stealth Unequal Length Headers 02-11 WRX/STi versions (though one or both of these requires an STI oil pan?, not clear on Ebay)

I'm not looking to make a high HP beast, I just have a 220 RWHP goal... 10lbs per loaded hp (818 + 2 adult males)

WOW just visited the wrap thread, what a nice job, looks better than ay wrap I've ever seen! But not as good as stainless steel...

[RM1SepEx]

Great news!

the blaster cleared the gunk and the dip stick pulled free!

the pan is off, NO metal shavings, nothing! So my roll over doesn't appear to have a "I've been inverted" related problem... Time to start putting it back together...

Back to my header quandry and searching for someone to install the Quaife. My drilled/slotted rotors and rear main seal came in so I have some addl stuff to work on other than my wife's 02 Deville ;-)

so what color(s) should I use for my powder coating? I really like Orange but I'm not sure how that will work with F5's color options for the 818... perhaps just semi gloss black with a krinkle finish on the valve covers and perhaps the intake runners

What color was that header wrap? black or dark blue? I'm distinctly color blind!

So for those who were interested in my $3500 Copart roll over (inc delivery from MI to ME) broken steering rack, one broken wheel, one broken FLCA) I think that isn't bad for a 70,000 mile donor.

[wallace18]

A dark silver color . I also used a special silicone sealer paint that was silver to help prolong the wrap life.

[RM1SepEx]

I meant the color on the demo wrap thread... silver I can see pretty well! I've seen the silicone coating online, you are happy with how it looks/works?

[wallace18]

I like the way it looks. I can't comment on how it works. It will most likely be 6 months till the engine runs.

[Mechie3]

Wrap not only prevents other things from burning (the oil filter is very close to the manifold) but also helps it retain heat so that there is more kinetic energy in the exhaust flow and more energy to spool the turbo/keep it spooled.

[RM1SepEx]

Wrap not only prevents other things from burning (the oil filter is very close to the manifold) but also helps it retain heat so that there is more kinetic energy in the exhaust flow and more energy to spool the turbo/keep it spooled.

understood...

the other question is does the ceramic coating like these

http://ajwperformanceproducts.com/store/#ecwid:category=1092003&mode=product&product=3882167
http://ajwperformanceproducts.com/store/#ecwid:category=1092003&mode=product&product=6183879

do enough to not need to do the wrap?

If not the only real non wrap option is the stock header with those heavy and ugly heat shields. Leaving me with buy a header and wrap or sand blast and powder coat every heat shield with high temp powder coating (like I used on my 1975 RD350 head pipes) Also leaving me with what do I do with my stock uppipe containing that little tiny cat converter that can cause problems....

BTW how did you do today at Nationals? Are you running one of the 503 cc ? Rotax motors or the old Kawasaki 440 that came in your car?

[Mechie3]

Some ceramic coatings are supposed to do as well. I've never seen test data myself.

Ditch the upipe with the cat. Either get an aftermarket one (i'm partial to the Grimmspeed one myself, I like a flex joint) or get an OEM catless (06+ WRX or any STI).


I did ok at nationals. A bit disappointed in my performance. I ran a friends F500. Never been in that car (or any long wheelbase F500 before). Had 3 practice runs Weds, then real runs Thurs and Fri. Ended up 17/27 in class, 6 seconds faster overall than the car owner. Steering was super slow, car had understeer tendencies (all long wheelbase cars do, my f440 is a short wheel base and oversteers), and the brake pedal was soft. Quite a bit to get used to. I'm mostly disappointed because in my car I was .5 seconds off of Scott Nardin and 2 seconds faster than Bill Crawford at the Peru National Tour. They placed 4th and 14th. If I placed the same relative to them at nationals as I did at Peru, I would have placed 6th. Granted, I got the joy of flying in, racing, and flying home. No worrying about a car, the long drive, buying fresh tires...nothing. Arrive and drive.

We've already started making plans to upgrade my car to a 494cc Rotax, keep the short wheel base, and take my car next year.

Here are the engine mods I had:

Cobb AP V2
EFI Logics Protune, 243 whp 351 wtq
Stromung 3" Divorced Wastegate Down Pipe, heat wrapped/sprayed
Maddad 3" Midpipe
Worx Tuning 3" Catback
Worx Tuning power pulley
XS Engineering CAI
Ebay Slicone Turbo Inlet
P&P Throttle Body
Throttle body coolant bypass mod
X02 Racing TMIC (gasket matched)
Aluminum & Silicone Y pipe, PnP'd
Silicone TB Hose (Blue)
Blue Silicone Radiator Hoses
PnP'd/Blue Ceramic Coated/wrapped Manifolds (GrimmSpeed)
Blue Ceramic Coated Up-Pipe/wrapped (GrimmSpeed)
Blue Ceramic Coated/wrapped Cross Pipe (GrimmSpeed)
Oddysey PC680 Lightweight Battery
FastWRX Oil Gallery Plug/Sensor Relocation Kit
TGV Deletes (Blue Ceramic Coated, Grimmspeed)
PnP black ceramic coated intake manifold (grimmspeed)
Aeromotive Fuel rails
Aeromotive FPR
Black Nitrided crank (OEM)
2009 WRX heads, D25 casting, gasket matched inlets
Gruppe-S Flywheel (13.9 lbs)
AC Delete

[RM1SepEx]

So after much deliberation...

I bought a Fast Stealth header and up pipe from AJW that is black ceramic coated. I'll set it up w/o wrap as a starting point and see how it works out heat wise... It is amazing that I could not get a definitive answer on how effective the coating is and if it needed to be wrapped too...

It's Christmas time here in Maine: Just got deliveries of my light weight flywheel,clutch kit, braided brake and clutch lines..


deliveries will stop soon, I have almost every part I need!!! (except for the 818 kit!)

[wallace18]

I know the feeling. I am waiting on my trans and then I just have to wait on the kit. I do not want to do any mods on the wiring harness till I get the kit. Good luck with all your goodies. I am putting a racedeck floor in my pole barn to keep me busy.

[RM1SepEx]

Mechie3, my old FMod (good friend still owns it) is an 87 Red Devil does yours look anything like this???

[Mechie3]

Similar. My friends 87 looked like that. I actually drove a friends 2005 Invader this week. First time in his car.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/206753_752677122095_1500184_n.jpg


I'm in the same spot as a lot of you guys. A lot of the pre work is done. Still working on the hubs and cleaning up some parts, but mainly just waiting.

[metalmaker12]

Me too, I have all the parts ready, sti ej207 engine, wrx tranny, hubs all wiring etc etc etc etc etc, it is going to be fun, hopefully they can get me a kit by feb- march

[wallace18]

11991

Well I have been away for a while. I thought since FFR and Dave is teasing us with 818 pics, I thought I would tease with donor ready to go pics. I found it fun to lay this out for the first time. Check out my new floor as well. :o

[wallace18]

Here is a front shot of my donor stuff. I can't wait for SEMA and order time.

11992

[Mechie3]

Yeah, I'm not that far ahead. Racing, travel, the gym, and life got in the way. lol

[RM1SepEx]

Wallace18, very nice floor!

what did you end up with for wheel/tire sizes

I'm feeling that I need to wait to buy mine...

Almost done sandblast clean up of every bracket on the engine and the valve covers and oil pan, semi gloss black powder coating next, wrinkle finish on the valve covers... I'm thinking semi gloss black for the intake as well but toying with wrinkle there too

I'm 2-3 weeks behind you. The trans looks great, what did you do with the tailshaft? The end plate and connection of the shafts will be coming with the kit but yours is already closed off with a plate.

Your rear lower transverse links look different too, what are they?

[wallace18]

If you look at post #38 under Wheels in the 818 forum you can see the wheels and tires and specs. The trans is just duct tape on the back till I get the kit with the parts to convert to 2wd. I did not want to pay for the parts 2X. So Andrewtech left it so I could finish it myself. Those parts are going to be in the kit. The links are adjustable Eibach units I got from AJW. My old ones were bent most likely from someones floor jack. All the black should look good on your motor. Best of luck.

[AJW Performance]

Clean machine, and awesome garage!
Got some gauge information coming your way Tom.

[wallace18]

I thought I would pass this info on to those working on their donor. Eastwood wrinkle black paint is awesome. I just painted some old motorcycle parts I had and they look great. It is rated to use on valve covers and such. It would look good on an intake as well. There are lots of applications for this. I may paint the aluminum seats for my 818 with it. Maybe some interior parts as well. :cool:

[Nelff]

everything Eastwood is awesome...

[RM1SepEx]

Just bolted on the powder coated oil pan, thermostat housing, all engine/accessory brackets and wrinkle finish valve covers yesterday. Decided to leave the intake aluminum because the black hoses and timing belt covers contrast so well with the aluminum pieces. I'm thinking that it would be easy to make it too black. I'm installing the timing belt, water pump, seals, tensioner etc... today. Waiting on bolting up the header and up pipe, I don't want to damage the ceramic coating.

I use tons of Eastwood products too. That is where we bought the powder coating equipment and powders. We use an old oven (free, craigslist) for curing the powder. I just picked up a neat product from them, a rust removal etch that leaves a nice flat plated surface. Cleans up old bolts pretty well. I have some of their red ceramic caliper paint to freshen the stock calipers. I use their chassis black paints on parts that for whatever reason I don't wish to powder coat.

How is everyone else addressing their bolts? I'm thinking that using a tumbler to clean them up may be a good approach....

[metalmaker12]

Just bolted on the powder coated oil pan, thermostat housing, all engine/accessory brackets and wrinkle finish valve covers yesterday. Decided to leave the intake aluminum because the black hoses and timing belt covers contrast so well with the aluminum pieces. I'm thinking that it would be easy to make it too black. I'm installing the timing belt, water pump, seals, tensioner etc... today. Waiting on bolting up the header and up pipe, I don't want to damage the ceramic coating.

I use tons of Eastwood products too. That is where we bought the powder coating equipment and powders. We use an old oven (free, craigslist) for curing the powder. I just picked up a neat product from them, a rust removal etch that leaves a nice flat plated surface. Cleans up old bolts pretty well. I have some of their red ceramic caliper paint to freshen the stock calipers. I use their chassis black paints on parts that for whatever reason I don't wish to powder coat.

How is everyone else addressing their bolts? I'm thinking that using a tumbler to clean them up may be a good approach....

I wire wheeled the threads and aluminum oxide blasted the bolts lightly. they cam out clean, than I cleared them with highly reduced clear at low psi's to just lightly coat them.
Cool stuff power coating, sounds like you been busy too
I am doing my Gates timing belt kit today, and wiring my IA Performance AVCS wire kit in to my dash harness.
I have ordered some Rota G force wheels 18x9 with Hankook Ventus Z214 R compound tires, they should stick well.

[RM1SepEx]

I want to wait on wheels and tires... I'm thinking wider in the back. I might just keep the stock 16's and the direzzas for some abuse... :-)
I'm working on the rear suspension pieces today. My rear transverse links are not straight, but are bent evenly side to side... they are supposed to be straight, NOT inflect at the sway bar mounting tabs? Can the rear ones be replaced with aset of the front aluminum ones? They look better :-)

[wallace18]

I had bent ones in the rear also. I bought Eibach adjustable ones from AJW.

[metalmaker12]

Sti aluminum ones , or the Eibach adjustable ones are a good idea. I grabbed 2 sets of brand new front rear Sti aluminum lateral links and I put aftermarket bushings in them. Also everyone,, the wrx motor and tranny mounts or going to make the motor move around a lot, I recommend Group N Sti mounts.
I should be getting my Rota wheels 18x9.5 in the rear and 18x8 in the front, i have the front hubs to put together, and some other minor stuff but I am pretty much done.

[wallace18]

I heard Dave comment on the engine movement from the video. The kit may have parts to address this.

[Silvertop]

..........I should be getting my Rota wheels 18x9.5 in the rear and 18x8 in the front, i have the front hubs to put together, and some other minor stuff but I am pretty much done.

Just curious........ Those are some pretty wide wheels. What tire width(s) are you planning on using? And are you building primarily for track or street use?

[PhyrraM]

Even though the OEM mounts ARE soft, a lot of the movement seen in the video seems to be from FFR choice (on the prototype chassis) to not utilize the OEM torque rod on the top of the motor. Adding a chassis tube to re-use this rod will diminsh movement a great deal.

[metalmaker12]

Even though the OEM mounts ARE soft, a lot of the movement seen in the video seems to be from FFR choice (on the prototype chassis) to not utilize the OEM torque rod on the top of the motor. Adding a chassis tube to re-use this rod will diminsh movement a great deal.

Agreed, the top tranny mount should be utilized, but will it, or we may have to do some self modification, guess we will see... With that addressed the stock wrx mounts are pretty weak so I already got the group n's to use so why not.

On the wheels, my car will be a street car 90% of the time, 9.5 in back and 8 in front are reasonably wide, but not to crazy. I have talked to some tuners who have inside connections to FFR and this car will handle it no problem. And no I am not breaking my promises, no names mentioned..just wait and see.

[PhyrraM]

.... 9.5 in back and 8 in front .....inside connections to FFR and this car will handle it no problem.......

This scares me a bit. I was hoping that the 818 would look acceptable as a true single donor car. If the wheelwells will accomodate that size of rims then the likelyhood it will still look OK on stock sized hardware (6-1/2 or 7 wide, IIRC) is significantly reduced.

We'll all see soon enough I guess. 2 more weeks?

[RM1SepEx]

8 inch in the front and 9.5 in the back is pretty wide for the target weight. IMHO You can fit some real meats on those wheels! What are your street tire plans for those wide rims????

I'm thinking 7.5 wide rims with 215 in the front and 235 in the back... My guess is that the go kart video shows 225 or so wide tires both front and back. we are shooting for approx. 25 inch diameter I think to fill the wheel wells. You can do that with stock WRX rims

I think that keeping the stock wheels for some serious thrashing of the existing 205 x 55 x 16 star specs might provide some fun too, perhaps some smoky donuts and good video

We need to think of the 818 as a higher powered Elise or Exige, 195 in the front and 225 in the rear stock on the lotus and they weigh a bit more than the 818 target. They don't usually go beyond 225 and 245 on the exiges...

[Silvertop]

8 inch in the front and 9.5 in the back is pretty wide for the target weight. IMHO You can fit some real meats on those wheels! What are your street tire plans for those wide rims????

I'm thinking 7.5 wide rims with 215 in the front and 235 in the back... My guess is that the go kart video shows 225 or so wide tires both front and back. we are shooting for approx. 25 inch diameter I think to fill the wheel wells. You can do that with stock WRX rims

I think that keeping the stock wheels for some serious thrashing of the existing 205 x 55 x 16 star specs might provide some fun too, perhaps some smoky donuts and good video

We need to think of the 818 as a higher powered Elise or Exige, 195 in the front and 225 in the rear stock on the lotus and they weigh a bit more than the 818 target. They don't usually go beyond 225 and 245 on the exiges...

I think I'm tuned in with you. Based on the weight of the car, I figure that 225/50's on the stock 16 X 6 1/2 wheels ought to provide plenty of adhesion for this car, unless one is planning to really load up the horsepower. Incidentally, the 225/50's will have precisely the same diameter as the stock 205/55's (24.9" for most tire brands). I also am considering staying with the stock 205/55's on the front, using the slightly wider tires only on the rear. Anybody know if there are any pratfalls in using different tire profile sizes front to back? Using different profiles in conjunction with the different widths will keep the height the same.

My concern with putting wide tires on the front is that this car is not going to have power assisted steering. Parking could be troublesome with really wide tires, even though the car is light.

[Mechie3]

My Fmod weighs 750lbs with me in it and has tires with a 9" section width and a 7.5" tread width. That's equivalent to about a 190 series tire. I agree the fronts can likely be narrow (225) but the rears will need to be wider, especially with a 2.5L motor. My 06 WRX would spin all 4 wheels launching in autocross with slicks (245 Kumho V710's). All that power on 2 wheels will need some more tire to prevent the rear end from getting really loose on corner exit power application.

I'd rather they make the car fit for wider wheels. It's a bit unlikely that anyone going to all of the effort of making an 818 is going to keep the stock wheels. It's usually one of teh first things that people change even on stock cars. Why wouldn't you change it on a kit car? The styling alone, IMO, doesn't match well with the 818.

[PhyrraM]

....Why wouldn't you change it on a kit car? ......


$15,000...... out the door.

IMHO, of course.

[Mechie3]

I get wanting to hit the $15k target, but at the same time, if you've spent $15k on a toy (because for all practicality, DD this or not, it's more toy than practical commuter) what's another $500 for a set of used wheels (rotas) that look better? I just sold some lime green painted stock 16's for $150. That drops the total cost of used wheels from $500 down to $350. Worst case, you can put spacers on a car to push out stock wheels, but altering a plastic body, and keeping it paint free, is harder. Better to appease the majority. I don't see many outside of those trying to do a super budget build using stock wheels.

I still wonder how much is $15k gets you a bare bones no extras car vs $15k gets you a decently appointed (as far as kitcar is concerned) car. When my wife and I bought her mini, the entry price wasn't terrible, but it seemed as if everything was an option, and the minimum price for options was aroudn $500. Didn't take long to hit high numbers. We picked only a few options.

[Oppenheimer]

I think a lot 818's will be initially built with the donor wheels, simply for budget concerns. So it would be cool if they looked decent in the wheel wells.

But lets face it, one of the first things people do to mod their cars is wheels/tires. The 818 will be no different. So even most of them built with donor wheels will probably eventually get aftermarket wheels.

But for a street driven 818, without lots of power upgrades, you won't need that much tire, so no need for huge, wide wheels. Of course, some will be built with lots of power, since its so realitively cheap with this drivetrain. So it would also be cool if bigger wheel/tire packages could fit.

This of course is the challenge for FFR. How to make sure 818's built with practical wheel/tire sizes look decent, even while providing some way for the larger wheel/tire packages needed for some builds to fit. There are advantages to 'right-sized' vs bigger is better.

My thoughts on the matter, which of course count for nothing, is it would be wiser to make sure stock size and/or practical sized wheel/tires look good out of the box, even if that means fitting larger stuff requires some small mods. If anyone has to spend $$ to make things look good/fit, it should be the guys already spending $$ for more extravagent builds.

[Gus]

Oppe, your tough process makes sense and I don't totally disagree with you, but I don’t see a lot of build being done with stock wheel. For starter, most donors will come from crashed car which usually have damaged wheels. Second I think 10% of builder will achieve 15k$, I think the median build will be 18-20k$. IMHO FFR needs to make sure the 818 doesn’t get confused with a Miata (I love this car BTW), it needs to be (IMHO) more aggressive and 205 tires are not. Just my 2 cents

[flynntuna]

Good point

[NonProfit]

I'm clearly in the minority here, but I believe the use of a stock wheel is needed for this kit to be a success.

Factory Five has built it's reputation on the genus idea of a single donor. The 818 takes it so far as to not even needing paint (at least for awhile). It would be a mistake to launch a $15000 project with a mandatory $1500 upcharge for wheels and tires. I agree the overwhelming number of folks will do something additional (such is the nature of DIY autos) but not everyone wants huge rubber.

What would be nice would be recommended size ranges, tutorials on how to modify, or even mix-and-match body panels for those who do.

[PhyrraM]

Simply going off of pictures of other FFR builds it seems about 25% of GTMs get built with stock Corvette wheels. Not too many Roadsters do anymore, but way back when the original "Single Donor Roadster" was new it seemed like 50%+ used stock Mustang wheels. FFRs advertizing literature even featured builds with OEM Ford rims of various types. IIRC, they even resold FR&PP Mustang wheels in the FFR catalog.

Also, again IMHO, it's not just the money..it's the idea of a single donor build. (edit: NonProfit just squeezed me out)

We don't really have a good sense of scale on the 818 yet, but a 205/215 section tire can, and will, look aggressive on a small enough car. 255s can look rediculous on the same small car. We just don't have a good reference point yet so talking about a particular tire size based on looks alone is a bit premature.

[Xusia]

NOT trying to convince anyone of anything with this post, just trying to provide other folks a different perspective. We should all have the options to build our 818 the way we want...


It's a bit unlikely that anyone going to all of the effort of making an 818 is going to keep the stock wheels. It's usually one of teh first things that people change even on stock cars. Why wouldn't you change it on a kit car? The styling alone, IMO, doesn't match well with the 818.

Uh, I don't plan on getting aftermarket wheels. In fact, I've NEVER bought wheels for any car I've ever owned (and yes, I've owned sports cars in the past).

*IF* my donor wheels are damaged, then I'll probably look for a used set of stock 17x7 wheels. Why use the stock wheels?? First, they are cheap and readily available. Second, it's just my opinion, but I think the stock wheels will allow tires that provide plenty of grip, and that the low weight is going to make wider wheels/tires an exercise in diminishing returns. As I stated before, I could be wrong, but it's either free or very cheap to find out.


I get wanting to hit the $15k target, but at the same time, if you've spent $15k on a toy (because for all practicality, DD this or not, it's more toy than practical commuter) what's another $500 for a set of used wheels (rotas) that look better? I just sold some lime green painted stock 16's for $150. That drops the total cost of used wheels from $500 down to $350. Worst case, you can put spacers on a car to push out stock wheels, but altering a plastic body, and keeping it paint free, is harder. Better to appease the majority. I don't see many outside of those trying to do a super budget build using stock wheels.

If the numbers worked out that way, I would probably get the nicer aftermarket wheels, but that's very dependent on what you can find. Stock wheels are everywhere and are a dime a dozen. And personally, I'd rather spend any/all extra money go for the Wilwood brakes (first priority), seats (second priority), and other FFR provided bits such as lower control arms (new as opposed to used, and better than stock), etc.

Yes, nicer wheels would *LOOK* better, but I care more about how the car performs than I do about how it looks. AND, the wheels are far easier to upgrade later than anything else I mentioned above.


Oppe, your tough process makes sense and I don't totally disagree with you, but I don’t see a lot of build being done with stock wheel. For starter, most donors will come from crashed car which usually have damaged wheels. Second I think 10% of builder will achieve 15k$, I think the median build will be 18-20k$. IMHO FFR needs to make sure the 818 doesn’t get confused with a Miata (I love this car BTW), it needs to be (IMHO) more aggressive and 205 tires are not. Just my 2 cents

I think you are right about the median build cost, and I fall right into that. But as I stated above, I'd rather spend my money on things that are more meaningful to me than wheels.

I would also point out traction - and more importantly handling - is not all about tire width. It's about appropriate contact patch for the vehicle and application. To that end, wider isn't always or necessarily better (or faster). The bottom line for me is that we really don't know, because we have no practical experience with it, what the ideal tire width will be. Everyone has their ideas, including me, and is making plans accordingly. Until some practical date exists that suggest or proves a wider wheel provides tangible handling benefits, I'm not going to spend any money on that.

[Gus]

The bottom line for me is that we really don't know, because we have no practical experience with it, what the ideal tire width will be.

Can't disagree with that^

I'm so anxious this whole 818 forum become less speculation and more fact-based (or at least first hand experience based) opinion etc... (like this thread most of time)

Time will come, a few more months... sigh

[Mechie3]

I guess I'm coming from a slightly different angle as well. My donor (06) had the 4 pot/2pot brakes, so I don't need an upgrade. My control arms are aluminum and I know they're not damaged. I sold my seats ($250/pair of fronts) and sold my stock 06 wheels years ago for ~$300. I should post my budget tracking sheet. I think I sold $1400 worth of stuff off the car that I won't need. There's other parts I kept, but swapped onto my 02 WRX and sold those parts. All in all I'd say I sold almost $2k worth of parts. $2k is certainly enough to buy a set of wheels, tires, and front seats.

[Xusia]

If I were in your situation, I'd probably think as you do! :)

[flynntuna]

For my build, I'm going to rely on the KISS method. Reliability will be a priority, any upgrades will have to meet stringent requirements, does it increase the fun factor and will the CFO (wife) sign off on it.

[metalmaker12]

I was getting the Rota's G force, but had to wait a long time to get the size and color I wanted, So I cancelled the order to save money to get the XXR 530's 18x8.25F and 18x9.75R chromium black rims. The front tires should be 235-245, and the rears will be like 265- 275's. You may all think I am crazy, but I think these staggerd wheels will look killer and who cares if they are not super light, this car is wicked light as it is. I will have 300-350whp so I think more meat in the rear will be a good thing and for $620 shipped to my door you can not go wrong. In my sti I had 325whp and spun all four tires and the were 18x8.5 with 245's. Case and point

[metalmaker12]

My budget was never 15k, that is really hard to hit, unless you get a clean donor and use all its parts and you don't rebuild much. my budget was 20k from the start and I am right around that if you add the kit. 12388 12389Here's what I am getting now, and for a cool grand you can have the same wheels and tires if u go on Ebay.
I was getting the Rota's G force, but had to wait a long time to get the size and color I wanted, So I cancelled the order to save time and money to get the XXR 530's or 527, 18x8.25F and 18x9.75R chromium black rims. The front tires should be 235-245, and the rears will be like 265- 275's. You may all think I am crazy, but I think these staggerd wheels will look killer and who cares if they are not super light, this car is wicked light as it is. I will have 300-350whp so I think more meat in the rear will be a good thing and for $620 shipped to my door you can not go wrong. In my sti I had 325whp and spun all four tires and they were 18x8.5 with 245's. Case and point.... I am unsure of which one I like more, since I like both a lot. Help me out

I think most real tuner guys will get new wheels or nice used ones, it is what makes a car pop, it is like a nice pair of new kicks.

To anyone who might care, I have owned XXR wheels before, and they were solid and I had no issues. I have owned ROTAS, Volks, BBS, XXR, enki's and Rays Gram Lights, they all were great, and I autox with them all.

Ps. Heres a pic of them on a Acura TL and brz12390

[flynntuna]

Nice. Wheels And tires being the best bang for the buck upgrade, might as well make it look good too.

[metalmaker12]

My wife gets what she wants, about time I did, she think this car is cool so I am golden for now lol... you know what i mean. I been saving for this type of thing for like ten years, and finally got a job that pays for everything else. I am still a savy buyer, but believe "It should be done right the first time weather permitting".

[Silvertop]

I'm clearly in the minority here, but I believe the use of a stock wheel is needed for this kit to be a success........

Perhaps -- but you are not alone. I plan to use the stock wheels -- unless I discover that they are inadequate to the task. But I'm betting that they serve -- at least in my application, in which I'll be generating only about 200hp at the flywheel on my mildly tweaked NA engine...........

[Mechie3]

My excuse was that I completely paid of my 06 WRX before I got married, so when insurance totaled it and gave me a check, it was my money to "recycle" back into another project. :D My wife didn't believe I was serious at first until a tow truck dumped off my wrecked car in the garage. haha!

[RM1SepEx]

I'm conflicted... depends on what happens to my "other" project vehicles. I have a 69 Sonett and a 98 VFR800 for sale... My budget supports the car either way but I do have a 20 year old in college and a 16 year old that wants to be a doctor so I do have many areas that need funding! LOL

I have 3 good 05 WRX wheels (and a non-matching earlier WRX wheel in the same size) and may just buy another to have a set and initially try to run the 205 55 16s Direzzas that I have... they should be just fine on the street and for some autocross duty with my 220 RWHP goal on a minor stock engine tweak/tune. I can powder coat them nicely at damn low $ in a contrasting color.
I've chosen to refresh a bit more than my original goals demanded but this type of a project deserves such upgrades. I can see that even a $15,000 budget goal can be done with a WRX donor if you use the parts as is... I chose to go with a ceramic coated header and up pipe, timing belt, pulleys, tensioner, water and oil pumps, brakes (drilled/slotted and Hawk HPS pads), clutch, light flywheel refresh to make it a more complete build. I'm thinking that the LSD will be a very good upgrade as well. Using a $3500 donor cost and $700 in parts resold so far my donor budget will exceed the $5000 target. It wouldn't have if I used the engine, transaxle and brakes as is, they were just fine with 70,000 miles

You can do some nicer looking wheels and good HP tires in 17 inch for about $1100-$1500.

Time to make a spanner to disassemble the rack to depower it... punch/spin just isn't working!

[Gus]

My wife didn't believe I was serious at first until a tow truck dumped off my wrecked car in the garage. haha!

^LOL

I could see mine have the same reaction:

"Yeah, yeah,yeah you want to build a car..."
"WTF!!???" (once she sees the donor pallet being dropped off)

[Mechie3]

I plan not to rebuild/mod the transmission just yet. I broke 3rd gear in my original 06 5 speed and still have it in the garage. I plan to use my working 06 5speed (came off the donor) to see how I like the gear ratios. After trying it out for a bit, then I'll have the broken trans rebuilt with a diff and whatever gear ratios I like that aren't $5k ppg's.

[Gus]

I was getting the Rota's G force, but had to wait a long time to get the size and color I wanted, So I cancelled the order to save time and money to get the XXR 530's or 527, 18x8.25F and 18x9.75R chromium black rims. The front tires should be 235-245, and the rears will be like 265- 275's.

Sorry I don't want to hijack thread with wheel discussion (last one I promise), If you could find a set of these used, they would be (IMHO) the ultimate setup for your range of tire size desire (18x9.5 100x5 with 40 offset, is pretty hard to find). They aren't the cheapest wheel new +/- 450$ ea:(

gram lights 57xtreme (http://www.rays-msc.com/wheels/index.cgi?d=145)

1239112392

[RM1SepEx]

Mechie3, that sounds like a great plan. I ran the ratios through the posted site in an earlier thread... I think that the ratios might be lower than optimal but should work fine with 25+/- inch tall rear tires

here it is with my 235 50 17

note the speed in gears... it is better with the 06-07 WRX 3.70 vs 3.90 ratio

http://www.cargister.com/calculator-gear-ratio?rpm=7000&final_ratio_teeths[]=&final_ratio_teeths[]=&fdr=3.90&diameter=666.8&ratio[1]=3.454&ratio[2]=1.947&ratio[3]=1.368&ratio[4]=.972&ratio[5]=.739&ratio[6]=&speed_in=mph&width=235&profile=50&wheel_diameter=17&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=

Stock 205 55 16 on stock wheels:

http://www.cargister.com/calculator-gear-ratio?rpm=7000&final_ratio_teeths[]=&final_ratio_teeths[]=&fdr=3.90&diameter=631.9&ratio[1]=3.454&ratio[2]=1.947&ratio[3]=1.368&ratio[4]=.972&ratio[5]=.739&ratio[6]=&speed_in=mph&width=205&profile=55&wheel_diameter=16&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=&teeths[1][]=&teeths[2][]=

note that there isn't that much difference

[RM1SepEx]

Spent several hrs sandblasting today... calipers, uprights etc...

A word to the wise... While I'm happy with my donor, a 2005 WRX donor from Michigan a donor from a non-rust belt state would be easier to recondition! :-)

I did break off a couple bolts on the front upright, the ball joint pinch bolt being the most problematic... The scale on the knuckles was pretty thick

Eastwood chassis paint on the uprights and ceramic paint in red on the calipers this weekend. Next week the final sandblasting and painting

everything req. from the donor will be done except my Quaife

[Mechie3]

I was wondering about the eastwood chassis paint. I don't have access to a sandblaster and have been using a wire wheel on my uprights and such. I get the scale and a lot of the rust off, but a thin dusting of rust still resides in some pores. Can the chassis paint go over that, or do you have to use the converter, primer, then paint?