What is the GTM future?

[Kalstar]

Am I all wet?? I am speculating the GTM life's cycle is about to be over. Hard to build, expensive, sourcing the trans is difficult, ect..... Yesterday at the open house everything was geared toward the 818 and the in house GTM was hidden behind closed doors. .

The GTM does not fit the Factory Five's model, one source donor, straight forward to build (400hrs or less) goal, complex in design making doors and bodies more labor intensive and they need to stock many specialty parts eating up space and resources that are already stretched thin with the other kits. I am thinking after the full production of the 818 is in swing, the GTM's days are numbered.

Mixed feelings if that is the truth, rarity will aways be intact, but lossing the GTM would be the end of Factory Five's rebirth.

[Mike N]

the in house GTM was hidden behind closed doors. .

If you believe the web chatter the FFR in house GTM was damaged at Carlisle. My guess is that with everything else going on at FFR it is not back to 100% yet and hence the reason for it not being shown. I think your speculation on the demise of the GTM is premature.

[VD2021]

Am I all wet?? I am speculating the GTM life's cycle is about to be over. Hard to build, expensive, sourcing the trans is difficult, ect..... Yesterday at the open house everything was geared toward the 818 and the in house GTM was hidden behind closed doors. .

The GTM does not fit the Factory Five's model, one source donor, straight forward to build (400hrs or less) goal, complex in design making doors and bodies more labor intensive and they need to stock many specialty parts eating up space and resources that are already stretched thin with the other kits. I am thinking after the full production of the 818 is in swing, the GTM's days are numbered.

Mixed feelings if that is the truth, rarity will aways be intact, but lossing the GTM would be the end of Factory Five's rebirth.

Just lets me know that 98% of the forum chatter for the next 10 days will be "818" LOL. The majority of the threads are good insight and It's still on my list of choices, for my next project.

[posthaste]

I sort of had a bit of a think about this the other day.
I'm not a top builder on this forum, I'm a 35 year old guy building a GTM for his Dad. (and it would never be possible without you guys here on the forum thanks;))
My first kit car ever (yah I know, we should have started something easier, but it was a once in a life time deal), it IS a tough car to build, everything is a pain in the ***, it takes a LOT of time, but that's sort of the fun. And the payoff is greater due to that.

Anyhow, I gotta be honest fellas, I like the idea of the 818, but I LOATHE the perspective crowd who would want them.

I foresee a bunch of anime avatars, troll posts in the forum and *****y, angsty replies by people who's usual forum posts are over at 4chan or mmochampion. (oh yah, check those place's out and tell me you want that mess on this forum)
The general way of life on those sites and with their crowd: If they were around when god created light? They would call the light stupid, and squat their nut sacks over it, plunging the world into darkness for another 2000 years.

But over all, I don't feel the gtm is threatened by the 818, that's like suggesting miata's will forever replace a ferrari. Sure the 818 is better on gas, and sure it's sorta quick, and yes it will be available EVERYWHERE, but the GTM is NONE of that, and that's what we like about it.

to summ up: 818= everyman's car. GTM=not so much.
818= go-bots. GTM= transformers.
818= mom's attempt at a homemade mcdonalds burger (yah the one that Eddie Murphy described in his video years ago;))
GTM= a big mack.
818= a world car. GTM= the destroyer of worlds
818= a sensible 2 seat roadster for a guy who wants awesome on a budget. GTM= a not so sensible 2 seater for the guy who can afford absolutely blistering performance and wants it.

It's two different worlds, from which we come from.
And to be quite frank, I think it was obviously coming.
What else should a company that makes high performance kit cars do in the current economy and to stay on top and grow other then adapt to new ways and new thinking?

But don't fret, just b/c burgers are on the menu don't mean the house stops serving steak;)

[LCD Gauges]

I think the future of the GTM is a 3rd revision which will allow for the use of a Corvette transaxle as an option.
Alternatively, with Mendeola having a product that suits the driveline needs, there is still life for this kit.
As a manufacturer, I doubt Mendeola would jump on the bandwagon for just a "few units"...? There must be
something bigger in the plans for our car.

The GTM is getting too much attention (just recently): the comparison to the McLaren, the Koni race car build, and SEMA.

I feel as though the excitement for this car is growing, and to have something that is competitive with high-end exotics
is something that Factory Five would be foolish to give up.

[RM1SepEx]

The GTM is a low volume "halo" car
The 818 will be in volume allowing Factory 5 to make $ and expands sales outside of the US because all of their other models use US specific donors...

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

All the hard work for FFR is done (R&D, design, fixtures, molds, glass). Why stop production now? Griffin might come to the rescue for transaxle price/availability?

[The Stig]

I have to agree with Shane... It wouldn't make sense to drop it now. And I really don't think that the "818" would be the one to take it's place. (They're two completely different cars and mindsets). Lamborghini didn't drop the Murcielago when they launched the Gallardo.

With that said, two things could happen to make the GTM a no brainer for people who want to build a beautiful "Supercar". The body molds need to be corrected, and made symetrical. I've spoken to quite a few people who were considering the GTM, and I've been told that the amount of time and/or money that has to be spent on bodywork and paint is the single largest reason for them not to choose the GTM.

Next, Mendeola needs to get their crap together and finalize the design and execution of their transaxle. Then they need to get them shipped to those who put their money down, and have been waiting now for 2 years. That whole scenario has been unacceptable to Factory Five, and the buyers who went out on a limb for Medeola. Then they need to decide whether or not this is a product that they truly intend to make available to the public at a reasonalble price point. If not, then they (Mendeola) need to say it and stop making promises that they don't seem willing to back up.

Mendeola is not the only gearbox out there. There are Porsche transaxles to be had. There are Ricardo boxes that are still available. There may potentially be an offering from Griffin, but that's still in the works, much like the Mendeola "gearbox".

These are the two areas that cause concern. But they aren't show-stoppers. They're just excuses.

As a result of the long and hard work put in by Dave Smith, and everyone at Factory Five, the GTM is a beautiful design that is more than worthy to satify the dreams of any car guy (or girl) who wants to do it themselves.

The GTM has never sold in the same volumes as the Roadsters or HotRods. But then, it wasn't expected to.

In my humble opinion, I believe that the GTM will be around for as long as Dave wants make it available.

[shinn497]

Hey what's wrong with anime avatars!? I've never really complained and I don't post on 4chan.

I actually was interested in FFR initially because of the GTM, but its build costs are so high that the 818 caught my interest. I would have been ok with 40k, but the transaxle + engine + paint is the real killer. I could see myself attempting a build in the future however.

[riptide motorsport]

Apples an oranges.......it'll continue on just fine.

[skullandbones]

I agree that the next Gen for the GTM will be the one to get to avoid some of the body work issues. I have been lusting after one of those bodies ever since it was unveiled. But I don't particularly like the drivetrain arrangement. If I were going to do this project it would be with something people have been suggesting for the 818, a H6 (that's why this is such a great forum). I know it won't fit but it could be made to fit. With that low CG engine and an automatic with paddle shifters, I could be very happy. If I get the urge to shift, I'll take the roadster for a drive. Get over the V8 thing. 350 hp feels just as good from a 6. My wife's V6 Camero is a perfect example (305 hp). I think there is plenty of life left in the GTM program. People just need to use their imagination a little. WEK.

[Jayman174]

For FF I think it may be a question of $$. Are they making money on the GTM? Who knows but, if too many years go by for the GTM as a lost cause from a business stand point maybe they would drop it. FF may just keep it to complete their line of kit cars. Who knows. I sure hope they keep it in the line.

The GTM is still the best bargin supercar kit at $20K.

Jayman

[Kalstar]

This winter at Boston World of Wheels (Factory Five's) home town car show, the GTM was a no show. Seemed odd at the time, but at the open House, once again no GTM. The warming of the Gen II was little more than slight visual mods, no deep RD to adapt their weakest link, the trans, i.e getting the Vette trans to fit. Here in Massachussets the one donor rule is in effect meaning your SOL with the Porsche trans when trying to register the car. If you look at the factory, the GTM parts take up about 2 1/2 the space the roadster parts take up. The GTM is now about 5 years old with less then 500 kits sold, the hot rod is going on 3 years and has out sold the GTM already. the GTM can't be leaving the lights on.

[Someday I Suppose]

You did see the yahoo blog where Ezra Dyer compares the GTM to the new Mclaren right? Possibly the only Mclaren in the US, driving along side the GTM. Pretty awesome stuff, I would say the GTM is safe as the pinnicle of the FFR line. The 818 is the new entry point into FFR and kit building and it looks like it will be an awesome car, but I don't see guys who dream having something along the lines of a Mclaren, Ferarri, or Lamo in the driveway for a fraction of the cost moving to the 818, it's just not the same thing.

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/mclaren-mp4-12c-vs-factory-five-gtm-motoramic-153949165.html

[Presto51]

Don’t forget the GTM was said by Dave Smith many times, is FFR’s flagship model.

Remember Factory Five Racing started by making replicas of one of the most famous race cars, and was quite successful at it.

Then Factory Five Racing goes out on a business limb and designs it own unique car, the GTM. Distancing itself from other replica manufactures.

Following that up, Factory Five Racing designs it second own unique car the 818, again not redoing another replica.

So It doesn’t take a huge stretch of the imagination to think that if successful with their own designs, then they might drop the older model Mark IV, not their flagship.

But I don’t see them doing that either any time soon

[crash]

Maybe some of you don't remember this, but originally the GTM was to be a limited production car that would only be offered to those that had been owners/builders of a FFR replica previously. This was to make the car exclusive and also to make sure that those that ordered had an idea of the complexity of the build process of a component car.

Obviously the second rule was broken pretty quickly, and in some cases this has definitely caused the foreseen "issues" of inexperienced builders trying to "get-r-done". That said, I think it quite possible that given the economy and the costs involved for paint and transaxles that the GTM may indeed be limited to a production of just 500 kits. As was first envisioned by FFR. It would make a whole lot of sense actually, since their new "flagship" car is set to release at about the same time.

[crash]

As far as the Mendeola deal goes, Stig, I don't think you have all the details. All of the people that signed up for the Mendeola/FFR transaxle have either been refunded their monies or have a gearbox in their hands, from what I understand. If there is anything different and someone has paid for a transaxle and not received it yet THROUGH FFR then I would like to hear about it.

As I have said all along, a ~$7500 ALL NEW PARTS transaxle is not really a feasable thing unless large quantities are involved, and even if EVERY GTM owner adopted using a Mendeola, it would still be very low volume. IMHO, Mendeola made the deal that they did to test the waters on the GTM, and ALL the foreseen possible issues did indeed arise. Those that ended up with a quality transaxle for that very low price should count themselves as very lucky. I have no doubts that that price point will not happen again. Not from Mendeola or from Griffin, or anyone else.

You guys want something that, while not impossible, is not real world...at least at this time.

By the way...Lola, one of the worlds finest small volume specialty car makers, filed for BK last month and is in receivership. BBS wheels? BK for a second time recently. These are hard times for just about everyone. Complaining that Mendeola won't just front the cash so that GTM builders can have their low volume gearboxes at the price they are demanding, regardless of whether it is a money maker for the manufacturer, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But then, I'm a dollars and sense (sic) kind of guy. ;)

[LS MAN]

I think the GTM will live on for a long time.
As mentioned, the tooling costs have probably been amortized, so why would you not want to use the molds, patterns, processes, etc, that the company has invested in.
I look at the type 65 Coupe as an example, lower volume than the GTM, but still available. It may make sense to do periodic batch production to improve efficiency.
The GTM symbolizes the capabilities of FFR, and also validates the companies technical prowess, ie a flagship vehicle.
Why would they develop genII, if there was not a future for the product? Will they continue to upgrade, I would think that would be dictated by volume.
You can buy similar kits, with less issues, but you pay for them. The GTM fills a real niche in the marketplace, & I see a real growth potential with continued media exposure for this segment.
I also think that in order to survive, products like the 818 are essential to the future of FFR. In this industry, if you are standing still, you ARE going backwards.
The transaxle issue will always be a pain, & expensive. I think both Mendeola, & Griffin will work through the issues involved, but it will take development time. There is a world wide market for V8 transaxles - someone will capitalize on it, still a specialty product at this point, as Crash stated, don't expect them cheap.

[Mike Downs]

Maybe some of you don't remember this, but originally the GTM was to be a limited production car that would only be offered to those that had been owners/builders of a FFR replica previously. This was to make the car exclusive and also to make sure that those that ordered had an idea of the complexity of the build process of a component car.

Obviously the second rule was broken pretty quickly, and in some cases this has definitely caused the foreseen "issues" of inexperienced builders trying to "get-r-done". That said, I think it quite possible that given the economy and the costs involved for paint and transaxles that the GTM may indeed be limited to a production of just 500 kits. As was first envisioned by FFR. It would make a whole lot of sense actually, since their new "flagship" car is set to release at about the same time.

Mike, I think that you misunderstood the "previous builders" idea. What it actually was that "previous builders" would have priority when ordering a GTM kit when it was just released. 'IF' there was an incredible amount interest from "previous builders", when the kit was first introduced, then "previous builders" would get the first 200 GTM kits. After that it was first come first served. But there wasn't a very large interest from "previous builders", so this restriction never came into action. This was my first build and i'm chassis #26.

Mike

[crash]

Mike, I think that you misunderstood the "previous builders" idea. What it actually was that "previous builders" would have priority when ordering a GTM kit when it was just released. 'IF' there was an incredible amount interest from "previous builders", when the kit was first introduced, then "previous builders" would get the first 200 GTM kits. After that it was first come first served. But there wasn't a very large interest from "previous builders", so this restriction never came into action. This was my first build and i'm chassis #26.

Mike

I distinctly remember the word "restricted" being used, but it was just an idea being thrown around, as I recall. Point is, the ideas of limited production and the fact that it is a relatively complex build are not new ideas. they predated the beta GTMs.

[The Stig]

As far as the Mendeola deal goes, Stig, I don't think you have all the details. All of the people that signed up for the Mendeola/FFR transaxle have either been refunded their monies or have a gearbox in their hands, from what I understand. If there is anything different and someone has paid for a transaxle and not received it yet THROUGH FFR then I would like to hear about it.

As I have said all along, a ~$7500 ALL NEW PARTS transaxle is not really a feasible thing unless large quantities are involved, and even if EVERY GTM owner adopted using a Mendeola, it would still be very low volume. IMHO, Mendeola made the deal that they did to test the waters on the GTM, and ALL the foreseen possible issues did indeed arise. Those that ended up with a quality transaxle for that very low price should count themselves as very lucky. I have no doubts that that price point will not happen again. Not from Mendeola or from Griffin, or anyone else.

You guys want something that, while not impossible, is not real world...at least at this time.

By the way...Lola, one of the worlds finest small volume specialty car makers, filed for BK last month and is in receivership. BBS wheels? BK for a second time recently. These are hard times for just about everyone. Complaining that Mendeola won't just front the cash so that GTM builders can have their low volume gearboxes at the price they are demanding, regardless of whether it is a money maker for the manufacturer, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But then, I'm a dollars and sense (sic) kind of guy. ;)

Hi Crash. If all of the gear boxes have been shipped, then they sure did it quietly. It wasn't very long ago when there were still quite a few people rumbling about not having them yet. It seems that there would have been a bit of fanfare here on the forum. If the buyers finally got them after (2 years of waiting), I couldn't be more happy for them.

As far as your comment that I said that people are expecting Mendeola to do the impossible (or unrealistic); I believe that it was Ian who said that the whole goal of producing the SD5, was to be able to provide a transaxle at a reasonable price point. I didn't set the price; he and Dave negotiated it. If I'm not mistaken, it was $7500.00 for the first 25 people who put their money up, and then I think it was stated to be $8500 for any that were sold afterwards.

But I don't think that anyone here expects or (expected) Mendeola to do anything beyond what they said that they were going to do. Also, no one expected Mendeola to financially front the whole thing, as though they would build the boxes and hope that someone comes along and buy them. The 25 initial buyers from the GTM forums sent their money to Factory Five, where it would be held until the finished product shipped. So, there was proof of payment, and Mendeola was not at risk. But Mendeola apparently wasn't in position to follow through. And the guys who "bought" were simply left hanging. It was an unacceptable situation that was strung out for far too long.

The funny thing is that since I'm using a rebuilt G50, I don't (didn't) even have a horse in the race. But I do hate to sit back and watch people that I have come to respect, be treated that way.

I know that the Mendeola guys are friends of yours, and I'm sure that they are probably good guys for the most part.

Maybe I dreamed the whole thing... Maybe I do have my facts wrong... Or maybe I just completely misunderstood what was being posted over and over and over for so long. If so, I sincerely apologize to anyone that I may have offended.

[shinn497]

are porsche transaxles really getting that scarce?

[Kalstar]

Shinn....

The Porsche trans are not that scarce. It's that it is not the ideal set up. The weakest link of the Power train is the trans. The reason F5R used the G50 was because back in 06 they were cheap, readily available and could hold V8 power. The GTM has the same issue the Lotus Esprite has with it's Renault trans, in stock form, with stock power, it does just fine, turn up the power wick and better have a spare in the garage.

[lrt1941]

I!m one of the people who put the money down. I think I was fifteen or sixteen and did not get a gear box. FF5 refunded my money. I contacted Ian and he said I could get the gear box for the 7500 price if I would pay up front. I decided to take a chance and sent the money. Ian said the gear box should ship in about three weeks, yesterday. I wondering what the other 17 are doing that got the refund?
Thanks
Leonard

[Mendeola Transaxles]

Leonard you are correct you are #17 of the 3.55 stage 1 SDR. Currently #2 0f 11 units refunded by FFR.

To date I have 12, stage 1 3.55 units delivered to GTM customers out of original 15pc. FFR order
To date I have 1, stage 1 3.55 unit delivered to none GTM customers.used test model.
To date I have 3, stage 1 4.11 units delivered to GTM customers out of original 15pc. FFR order
To date I have 1, stage 1 4.11 unit delivered to none GTM customers.

To date I have 5, stage 1 3.55 units pending delivery to GTM customers out of next 11pc. FFR order
To date I have 6, stage 1 3.55 units order position pending to be claimed for GTM customers out of next 11pc. FFR order
To date I have 4, New stage 1 3.55 units pending to GTM customers beyond next 11pc. FFR order

To date I have 4, stage 2 4.11 units delivered to GTM customers.
To date I have 6, stage 2 4.11 units delivered to none GTM customers.

Thank you Leonard for your support.

[JBrown88]

Personally, I think that the 818 may even help GTM sales. I'm in the same boat as shinn. Building a GTM just isn't really feasible for me right now, but I want to build one. That's why I'm going with an 818 when I have the money, while keeping my eye on the GTM. It'll be around for a good while.

[fact5racer]

Though my Mendeola box shifts perfectly (thanks Ian) I do wish I had the 3:55 gears. I realize mine is a track orientated box, which for track use it would be excellent but, as usual, with this economy, I cannot break the famous "Don't race what you can't afford to lose" rule so I have to just keep enjoying it on the street.

[crash]

I don't think Ian can say it any clearer than that! :)

I have found that, although the GTM community is one of the best I have ever dealt with, I have not gotten the feedback I had hoped for when putting products out there for people to evaluate. I think there have only been two people that have told me something that needs improvement on a product, and I have responded immediately, but the point is that when things work well, or as intended, most people just move on and discuss the things they need help with or that aren't working out. Don't know why this is, but it is.

Shane is probably a great example of this. He manufacturers MANY great GTM products, yet it is the rare occasion that people post about their positive experiences with his products. And when they do, as with mine, it is usually in reply to a question by another builder.

What I guess I am getting at is that problems provoke conversations and posting, but good working products usually do not. Most likely, I think, this is what we have here with the Mendeola boxes. They were shipped, people have them in, and either the cars are not yet being driven, or there are no issues, and such, not many posts about them. :)

[Dave Smith]

Some clarification:

The GTM is our flagship and will not be discontinued. If anything, when the 818 launches we MAY limit production to make things easier in-house for production and scheduling/purchasing.

The 818 is targeted at a new customer and is being engineered to meet some demanding criteria, including export capabilities where VAT’s (import duties/taxes), LH/RH drive, and donor parts costs make building an FFR in another country more expensive.

Regarding Mendeola, I sent a personal letter to each customer with a STRONG recommendation that they buy from Mendeola only on a COD basis since they have a poor record of delivering product on-time and when promised. That’s just a fact and it doesn’t mean I don’t like Mike and Ian and the crew there.

The only REAL long term risk to the GTM is if we are unable to nail down a reliable/affordable transaxle. Porsche boxes are tough to find and expensive. So far Mendeola looks like they’ve got their issues resolved, and while I could not ask my customers for any more patience, Mendeola has delivered quite a few boxes now and I am VERY hopeful they deliver more going forward.

In any event, this post asked about the GTM and I can tell you that the Factory Five GTM will go forward 100%. The Yahoo video with the McLaren proved that most of the guys watching wanted to see more of Cheney’s GTM than the new McLaren! All business considerations aside, I love the car and no other FFR matches it’s ability to pull cell phone cameras out car windows as you drive by… The GTM has a bright future.

[docglock]

I was never worried about the status of the GTM. It is good to hear the Mendola boxes are available. I look forward to dropping an SDR behind a LS376/525 sometime in the next 15 months. From the perspective someone just starting the build phase, I have read many of the posts related to the Mendola transaxles. A lot of the history is not very encouraging. However, I want a GTM so I decided to grit my teeth, cross my fingers and hang on for the ride. I know that when it comes time to purchase a transaxle, I will do what it takes to solve the problem and get the job done.

[The Stig]

Thank you Dave.

That's some nice information to hear. It completely confirms what I believed to be true, regarding the GTM and Factory Five.

I am also glad to hear that the gearboxes have been shipped and received by the various GTM builders who have been so patient. To Mike's (Crash's) point, when things are going well, people don't feel the same urgency to discuss them unless specifically asked. I think that's fairly normal though.

You're right again about the McLaren vs GTM comparison (or lack there of). The GTM sure seems to fit the first impressions of a "Super Car" more so than the McLaren.

Thanks again for the update. And congrats on the huge success of this year's open house.

Mike

[Kalstar]

Some clarification:

The GTM is our flagship and will not be discontinued. If anything, when the 818 launches we MAY limit production to make things easier in-house for production and scheduling/purchasing.

The 818 is targeted at a new customer and is being engineered to meet some demanding criteria, including export capabilities where VAT’s (import duties/taxes), LH/RH drive, and donor parts costs make building an FFR in another country more expensive.

Regarding Mendeola, I sent a personal letter to each customer with a STRONG recommendation that they buy from Mendeola only on a COD basis since they have a poor record of delivering product on-time and when promised. That’s just a fact and it doesn’t mean I don’t like Mike and Ian and the crew there.

The only REAL long term risk to the GTM is if we are unable to nail down a reliable/affordable transaxle. Porsche boxes are tough to find and expensive. So far Mendeola looks like they’ve got their issues resolved, and while I could not ask my customers for any more patience, Mendeola has delivered quite a few boxes now and I am VERY hopeful they deliver more going forward.

In any event, this post asked about the GTM and I can tell you that the Factory Five GTM will go forward 100%. The Yahoo video with the McLaren proved that most of the guys watching wanted to see more of Cheney’s GTM than the new McLaren! All business considerations aside, I love the car and no other FFR matches it’s ability to pull cell phone cameras out car windows as you drive by… The GTM has a bright future.


Is it ok to have a man crush?

[ArtGirl]

Those that ended up with a quality transaxle for that very low price should count themselves as very lucky.



Seriously. Very lucky.

[shinn497]

Dave question!!!!

Do you think that you will apply some of the manufacturing techniques from the 818 to improve the GTM.

In particular, I'm wondering about the paint free gel-coat.

[fact5racer]

I for one, hope not. Nothing will cheapen the value of these cars and screams "Kit Car" than an unfinished body.


Dave question!!!!

Do you think that you will apply some of the manufacturing techniques from the 818 to improve the GTM.

In particular, I'm wondering about the paint free gel-coat.

[Benji]

I think those that feel that NOT being able to use the Corvette transaxle is a 'fault' of the GTM should be realistic, I mean, some of them are even building a GTM... take a look at the engine where it is now, take a look at the LAYOUT of the Corvette transaxle and explain to me how that would work in ANY mid-rear car....

I think the GTM along with the coupe are long over due a serious overhaul to make them much easier to build, other than that I see the GTM as being the car that the more 'mature' generation will build to cruise around in and the 818 as the car that a younger generation will build, along with the 'mature' generation who may want one for some 'cheap' hooning around in.

[Kalstar]

I think those that feel that NOT being able to use the Corvette transaxle is a 'fault' of the GTM should be realistic, I mean, some of them are even building a GTM... take a look at the engine where it is now, take a look at the LAYOUT of the Corvette transaxle and explain to me how that would work in ANY mid-rear car....

I think the GTM along with the coupe are long over due a serious overhaul to make them much easier to build, other than that I see the GTM as being the car that the more 'mature' generation will build to cruise around in and the 818 as the car that a younger generation will build, along with the 'mature' generation who may want one for some 'cheap' hooning around in.

There is one builder that has already fitted the Corvette Transaxle, the body was lengthened about 6 inches.

[The Stig]

I think those that feel that NOT being able to use the Corvette transaxle is a 'fault' of the GTM should be realistic, I mean, some of them are even building a GTM... take a look at the engine where it is now, take a look at the LAYOUT of the Corvette transaxle and explain to me how that would work in ANY mid-rear car....

I think the GTM along with the coupe are long over due a serious overhaul to make them much easier to build, other than that I see the GTM as being the car that the more 'mature' generation will build to cruise around in and the 818 as the car that a younger generation will build, along with the 'mature' generation who may want one for some 'cheap' hooning around in.

You could very easily use a Corvette C5 transaxle... As long as you don't mind having 6" of it sticking through the rear of the car. The length when you mate the engine and transaxle together, are just too long for the GTM Chassis and Body. And then there's the question of how your axles are going to line up with the rear wheel placement. The transaxle stubs would sit far behind the wheel hubs. I'm sure it could "be done" but you would have some pretty aggressive angles going on there.

[VD2021]

I think those that feel that NOT being able to use the Corvette transaxle is a 'fault' of the GTM should be realistic, I mean, some of them are even building a GTM... take a look at the engine where it is now, take a look at the LAYOUT of the Corvette transaxle and explain to me how that would work in ANY mid-rear car....

I think the GTM along with the coupe are long over due a serious overhaul to make them much easier to build, other than that I see the GTM as being the car that the more 'mature' generation will build to cruise around in and the 818 as the car that a younger generation will build, along with the 'mature' generation who may want one for some 'cheap' hooning around in.

The engineering FFR completed, in order to use the many parts from the C5, was a great accomplishment. As an engineer I know integration can have huge hurdles.

We just need to come to the realization that the GTM is different and it's current kit price point will require a non-C5 transaxle. IMO the Mendeola endeavor was the right call. Imagine ordering your GTM and the transaxle being an inventoried item that arrives with all of the other boxes......

The only overhaul I would like to see is a rework or update to the molds to address symmetry, the windows and other items that are normally reworked during the body work stage.

Once you remove the torque tube and mate the transmission/diff to the engine it is more compact, however like Mike stated it will still be to long for the GTM as current. I think its awesome that the builder of the GTM mentioned earlier, was able to accomplish doing it, however I really like the body as it is. Maybe I would change my mind if I saw it in person???

[Benji]

You could very easily use a Corvette C5 transaxle... As long as you don't mind having 6" of it sticking through the rear of the car. The length when you mate the engine and transaxle together, are just too long for the GTM Chassis and Body. And then there's the question of how your axles are going to line up with the rear wheel placement. The transaxle stubs would sit far behind the wheel hubs. I'm sure it could "be done" but you would have some pretty aggressive angles going on there.

Exactly, one instance where I don't wish I had an extra six inches! I remember that there was someone that lengthened the GTM but how did it look? I don't want to be rude so I'll just say if it were me I wouldn't go down that route.

As I recall they actually did it so that they could have a automatic trans for the GTM?