New 818 Look, Possible Future Mod.s

[Vman7]

First off let me say this, these mods are not suggesting FFR change the path they are on, only a few ideas for future mods, either by FFR or by people who choose to modify on their own.

Like I said in the other threads. Let Dave, Jim & the FFR Team do what they do best :)

I believe that this new design that Jim and FFR came up with works well, the overall shape flows well!

Just a matter of personal taste on what people would like to do with it on their own.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10086&d=1339117570
10086

David

[Flamshackle]

I think we might be surprised at how many people customize their body after purchase.

Slight modifications could easily sort some of the style issues that people got all up in arms about. Vman as always your drawings look real nice :D

[Vman7]

I think we might be surprised at how many people customize their body after purchase.

Slight modifications could easily sort some of the style issues that people got all up in arms about. Vman as always your drawings look real nice :D

Thanks Flamshackle :)

That's what I think as well, let people do what they would like to do to their cars.

[VTX]

Nice job. I think it looks pretty good.

[N8Salem]

kudos

[riptide motorsport]

Vman..you have some talent there...........

[BipDBo]

I like the single deck vent. The deck vent design on this concept is one of few things I'm not fond of. They have important function, but good looking ones are rare. Jim's vents look too small. The radiator should be ducted to discharge all of the air upward, none of it down under the car, which would cause uplift. If there is a big opening in the bottom, the air will take that path of least resistance and there is little to no point in the vents. Therefore, if they discharge all of the air that comes in though the front intake, they should match or exceed the size of the intake.

I also think Jim's deck vents look awkward. This single, larger vent looks better IMO.

[mekeys]

I also like Vmans version,however changing the nose a little and hesdlights and side vent does NOT change the basic shape of the body.We were all expecting some thing different.There were 702 designs submitted...There were a lot of Fantastic designs..I think we were all expecting a more up to date design.For me the one chosen was a big let down..I am only interested in the styling AS long as it can start and stop and go 70 MPH I'm good..

Mel

[Vman7]

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

[shim2]

That's really nice vman, you should do one with a windshield to get an idea how the 818 roadster will look.

[VTX]

Nice! I'm really liking that front end now! I still think the head lights need a little work, but it looks really good!

[Flamshackle]

That's really nice vman, you should do one with a windshield to get an idea how the 818 roadster will look.

Please v-man could you do this^ :)

[Vman7]

That's really nice vman, you should do one with a windshield to get an idea how the 818 roadster will look.


Please v-man could you do this^ :)

working on it right now :)

[Vman7]

With Street Windshield, not sure on the size or shape that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10113&d=1339134910
10113

[07FIREBLADE]

^^^^ where do I sign up for this one.... Lol

[Flamshackle]

With Street Windshield, not sure on the size or shape that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10113&d=1339134910
10113

Hahaha! V-man you are a champion!

[dclin]

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

Much better. I'd still do something to the lower center of the new nose, but much much better.

Sorry, the only thing the original rendering was, was simply Jim's original original design, but with a different nose... with no street windshield, big wing, big graphics, big wheels...

In Dave's defense, I think they simply didn't have time to undertake a completely different body to have ready at SEMA. They already had a full size mock up of Jim's original original body, and I'll bet its just easier to fix the nose, shot it with paint, and get it off to SEMA.

[kach22i]

I was not planning on posting for a while, but Vman's work got my juices flowing and I could not resist.

Not like this will ever happen, but I just had to see what shortening the nose back to Jim's first full sized buck would look like with different headlights - based on Vman's excellent foundation of changes of course.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/GRID-Vman-Jim.jpg

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks Vman!

[GS guy]

V-man has nailed it! In my eye those simple changes to the front end and side really puushed this design to another level. I didn't think the first "reveal" from FF looked all that bad as some were making out, but this version is getting the hair fired up!
kach22i - IMHO the shorter nose doesn't improve the overall look on this one as much as it did with the original FF version.

Now how about a street version? Loose the graphics, wing and roll cage. Better get the fire extinguisher ready!

[wallace18]

The reason for the longer front may be crash protection. FFR does do crash protection in the engineering of their cars.

[Kalstar]

I am thinking, to get the cloth targa the work, the roll bar humps will need to be taller. Great work V-man.

[Martin]

My wife just said "that's beautiful".

I think FFR are onto a winner here. Like all of the FFR line up, people will all build it their way. A few simple mods and you can get the car exactly how you want it.

Once our MK4 is on the road, this just became a contender!

Martin



With Street Windshield, not sure on the size or shape that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10113&d=1339134910
10113

[exist12]

With Street Windshield, not sure on the size or shape that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10113&d=1339134910
10113

This is the best one I have seen. Changing the front vent opening made a huge difference

[kach22i]

The reason for the longer front may be crash protection. FFR does do crash protection in the engineering of their cars.
If you work with the design at all you will realize that the headlights chosen dictate the arc, and length of the hood, including the overhang. The only way for the overhang to be less with these Camry headlights is to shove the lights back further into the wheel flare. It's too short of a distance already for my taste, but I'm not the head designer at FFR, so my opinion means squat.

One more attempt to clean up the design, per my own personal tastes. It really is looking too much like a Nissan 350Z, but that's better than looking like a Viper, in my opinion.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/GRID2-Vman-Jim.jpg

For reference, a blue Viper.
http://www.tuningnews.net/article/071219/hennessey_2008_dodge_viper_srt10/
10133

For reference a blue 350Z
http://importsnc.com/forums/cars-sale/59987-04-daytona-blue-350z-enthusiast-model.html
10134

[shim2]

V-man has nailed it! In my eye those simple changes to the front end and side really puushed this design to another level. I didn't think the first "reveal" from FF looked all that bad as some were making out, but this version is getting the hair fired up!
kach22i - IMHO the shorter nose doesn't improve the overall look on this one as much as it did with the original FF version.

Now how about a street version? Loose the graphics, wing and roll cage. Better get the fire extinguisher ready!

+1 Vman is onto something here. Loose those graphics, I kind of like the wing there, even for a street version. Would be nice to see both though. No graphics with and without wing.

[Niburu]

I think I actually like it mor with the longnose

[VTX]

With Street Windshield, not sure on the size or shape that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10113&d=1339134910
10113

That looks awesome! I would say it's in HOF territory for me now, even with those headlights.

Do you think it's possible to do a solid color and with darker wheels? I'd love to see what that would look like.

[mekeys]

I was not planning on posting for a while, but Vman's work got my juices flowing and I could not resist.

Not like this will ever happen, but I just had to see what shortening the nose back to Jim's first full sized buck would look like with different headlights - based on Vman's excellent foundation of changes of course.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/GRID-Vman-Jim.jpg

Heh George don't stop now you are the main reason I keep checking in every day.Not too many others seem to be interested in STYLE..

Mel

[Mechie3]

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

Just by modifying that bumper vent and removing the horizontal whisker, it looks amazing! Reminds me of the vent on the F430 scuderia!

[StatGSR]

I knew it wouldn't take to much to make me a believer, and i think Vman may have just pulled it off! good work!

[Oppenheimer]

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

Now thats what I'm talkin' 'bout! I feel some tingling in the scalp, and it ain't dandruff shampoo!

Put some of that vman rear detail from the first post as well, and we got HoF. This is starting to turn into anther Rodney like effort. A few tweaks to Jim's basic design, and wow!

The problem with doing these sorts of mods ourselves is then you have to paint, and costs go way up. The genius of Dave's idea to go no-paint is the cost of the finished product, not just the cost of the kit & components. If FFR is willing to entertain some of these ideas (if they fit, and if they don't raise costs, and if they don't require new molds, etc), I think a lot of the 'OK, but not exciting' type comments will wane.

[Doc_FFR]

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

Wow. Those changes really make a difference!

I personally think the longer hood looks great. Makes it possible for a frunk.

[Dave Smith]

I think that Vman is super talented and his small changes make a big effect indeed. We are up to our ears prepping for open house and so I can't come back to this too much, I just wanted to say that IF you guys can understand how just these small changes affect the 818R rendering, can you walk with me just a bit and take a small teenie tiny leap of faith that the translation to full size is a log scale difference, maybe two.

I am pleased with the project and have been studying this last few days the responses etc with great interest and comparing feedback from a variety of sources (I laughed out loud at the FB crowd-sourced robo-supercar-frankenstein design winner posted on another thread).

I have reached some conclusions about the drama of the last few days and I think I have a good idea of how to make sure that going forward, it doesn't hurt the project effort and contributes in a positive way while keeping the interested members of the FFR community informed of the exciting parts of the 818 story. I do think that the 818 forum section is, right now, worlds different than the rest of our community (and I have some ideas on that). Being kind and polite builds the community and I don't think that taking the effort to be considerate to others is very hard to do. Commonly the guy who claims to "say it like it is" is also intellectually lazy and doesnt take responsibility for the hurtful things he/she says. Candor yes. Rudeness and insults will never build a forum where people feel welcome to share ideas.

Imagine we were all speaking face-to-face and then the rough edges get smoothed out and the smiles come easy...

I don't want to do any post-mortem on the past few days, but Vmans ideas and those of MANY MANY people here are SOOOO GOOOD! Perhaps part of the challenge with the 818 section of the forum is the influx of "designers" who came here as a direct result of the design competition and are perhaps not all car-builders, racers, car-guys, or project guys as much as they are "designers" (this is closer to what the Local Motors community is where-as the FFR community is almost exclusively real guys who turn wrenches, make stuff, drive stuff and have established themselves as exceptionally positive and helpful). While those designers have had a great influence, I think, in some cases, they communicate differently and may occasionaly have expectations that cannot be met in the real physical world of vehicle engineering. This is the community I wanted to engage on the 818 project and we have, for the most part.

didnt mean to ramble... Excellent mods Vman!*

* Dave Smith does not commit to, endorse, or make any suggestions that he will do anything related to this stattement (a little joke there).

[leetfade]

If anyone has anything negative to say on that their just idiots... I have to commend you on being able to put the emotion of the past few days aside, still recognize the value of the community and continue to post.

One quick question that you may or may not be able to answer. Is the whole front one piece or is the front bumper molded urethane / frp / fiberglass like a production car?

Now, back to VMan. Really like the look of that. Nice job on the tweaks!

[16g-95gsx]

With Street Windshield, not sure on the size or shape that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10113&d=1339134910
10113

Definitely starting to grow on me. Not that I thought it was "bad" to begin with, just was an unexpected body choice.

[Oppenheimer]

Diversity. The rest of the FFR community, the other forums, the existing customer base, is a very narrow demograhic. Mostly *ahem*, 'older' guys, mostly of at least some means, certainly all wrench turning car-guys, with some sort of garage or work-space. Everyone understands each other, everyone can relate to each other. Plus with age (usually) comes maturity, and respect for others. Knowing you don't really know everything, and you can learn something from anyone.

For a variety of reasons, the 818 project is attracting a much more diverse demographic. There is a learning curve here, on both sides, and those growing pains are showing through. I really believe over time that it will work itself out, this part of the FFR forum will find its groove. It won't turn into NAISOC, but it will always have some rough edges compared to the other parts of FFR forum. But it will work, it will be effective. It will be useful to both FFR and to us.

We all need to embrace the diversity here, respect others, take the highroad, and always, Always, ALWAYS assume good intent. Assume that your fellow forum member has the projects best interest at heart, and certainly so does FFR.

[16g-95gsx]

I think that Vman is super talented and his small changes make a big effect indeed. We are up to our ears prepping for open house and so I can't come back to this too much, I just wanted to say that IF you guys can understand how just these small changes affect the 818R rendering, can you walk with me just a bit and take a small teenie tiny leap of faith that the translation to full size is a log scale difference, maybe two.

I am pleased with the project and have been studying this last few days the responses etc with great interest and comparing feedback from a variety of sources (I laughed out loud at the FB crowd-sourced robo-supercar-frankenstein design winner posted on another thread).

I have reached some conclusions about the drama of the last few days and I think I have a good idea of how to make sure that going forward, it doesn't hurt the project effort and contributes in a positive way while keeping the interested members of the FFR community informed of the exciting parts of the 818 story. I do think that the 818 forum section is, right now, worlds different than the rest of our community (and I have some ideas on that). Being kind and polite builds the community and I don't think that taking the effort to be considerate to others is very hard to do. Commonly the guy who claims to "say it like it is" is also intellectually lazy and doesnt take responsibility for the hurtful things he/she says. Candor yes. Rudeness and insults will never build a forum where people feel welcome to share ideas.

Imagine we were all speaking face-to-face and then the rough edges get smoothed out and the smiles come easy...

I don't want to do any post-mortem on the past few days, but Vmans ideas and those of MANY MANY people here are SOOOO GOOOD! Perhaps part of the challenge with the 818 section of the forum is the influx of "designers" who came here as a direct result of the design competition and are perhaps not all car-builders, racers, car-guys, or project guys as much as they are "designers" (this is closer to what the Local Motors community is where-as the FFR community is almost exclusively real guys who turn wrenches, make stuff, drive stuff and have established themselves as exceptionally positive and helpful). While those designers have had a great influence, I think, in some cases, they communicate differently and may occasionaly have expectations that cannot be met in the real physical world of vehicle engineering. This is the community I wanted to engage on the 818 project and we have, for the most part.

didnt mean to ramble... Excellent mods Vman!*

* Dave Smith does not commit to, endorse, or make any suggestions that he will do anything related to this stattement (a little joke there).

The changes made to the design, even if it is IS Jim's design, are already many magnitudes of order better than the original. I'm confident that you guys will nail it in the end. Having taken a moment to get over my initial surprise, the body seems to be really growing on me. I fully agree on the slight frontal changes the Vman has added, and really think that may have been all that was needed for me. The small opening looks funny to me at first, but in reality from an engineering perspective is all that is really needed on a car like this. Good luck with your project, I'm still eagerly standing by waiting to see what the final product turns out to be.

[N8Salem]

Good counsel Dave, I am a moderator of a forum at musclediscussion.com and unfortunately as a forum grows you have to moderate the detractors and even spammers that will try to post ads. On my forum off topic posts and rudeness is deleted and the member sent a pm that could result in banning of their ip if it continues. You may want to nominate some members you know and trust to monitor the forum. I also noticed there is another ffr forum online you may want to recruit from.

That being said I'm looking forward to seeing how the 818 evolves. I've watched the Elise evolve into Steven Tyler's Venom GT and think the 818 could follow suit albeit more economically.

[DrieStone]

Definitely starting to grow on me. Not that I thought it was "bad" to begin with, just was an unexpected body choice.

I'll agree with that statement. This is a car that I can see myself in. It's still not quite there, but this pushes the want level up.

I'll also admit that leading with the 818R design made it difficult for me to "see" the car that I'd want to purchase. The full sized windshield and the reworked front-end have helped a lot. I'm still on the fence, and I always will be until I see the final $15k car.

[Mechie3]

didnt mean to ramble... Excellent mods Vman!*


I read your entire post. Glad you posted too.

[BipDBo]

* Dave Smith does not commit to, endorse, or make any suggestions that he will do anything related to this stattement (a little joke there).

It's good to see that Dave has shaken off some of the negativity.

It's also good to see that he is still listening to new ideas and constructive criticism. I think that the vast improvements in this design are in large part due to feedback. That will probably end very soon, however. They are probably coming very close to press time where they need to build molds are can no longer make changes. They may already be past that point.

I like the look of the Vman's side vents a bit better. The side intake on Jim's original model only looks to have an opening on about half of it. Perhaps if the entire side vent were used, the intake on the top of the fender could be deleted. They may have the top intakes, however, to get a separate ducting for the intercooler and combustion intake. The combustion coming from the top vent where it is more duct and water free. Just speculation.

10135
10136

I also like the vents on the humps. Jim's original model has a vent on the top of the engine bay near the back. This provides good cross ventilation and upward convection when the air enters through the bottom and the side vents. The only disadvantage to Jim's vent placement is that it interferes with a potential trunk. Vents in the humps would make room for a trunk, but not have as good cross ventilation. Since the radiator is up front, however, there is going to be much less heat production in this engine bay.

[j32driver]

Vman.... MAJOR WIN! That is all it took and I'm now in love with this body again. I could be seen in your version of the nose and be a very happy man.

[leetfade]

I think it's going to be important to remember that just because Dave said he liked the rendering, it doesn't mean that it can be done. It may be more about time than anything now. It's hard to say how well it will scale.

I would hope we can avoid another explosion if it doesn't turn out to be just like the updated rendering.

[Cooluser23]

With your awesome skills, could you do a sketch of what it would like with a glass engine cover?

I know it may not make the FFR production version, but it may be a great aftermarket mod, for people who would love to show off that the car is mid-engined, like it is used on most modern mid-engined exotics

[Xusia]

Being kind and polite builds the community and I don't think that taking the effort to be considerate to others is very hard to do. Commonly the guy who claims to "say it like it is" is also intellectually lazy and doesnt take responsibility for the hurtful things he/she says.

Too funny! I said this same thing in another thread before I read this.

Excellent commentary, Dave. Know that you have my support.

As for the body, it is growing on me as well. I do trust FFR to get it right, and I'm super excited to see the full reveal at SEMA (or anything else you may choose to throw at us before then!). :)

[D2W]

Vman you are truly talented. Its amazing what a talented designer/artist can do in such a short time. I still think its too bad that Dave didn't let the community know sooner about the decision to use Jim's design. This is the kind of support that they would have gotten, to use or not, that could have taken this design to the next level.

[xscott]

That looks awesome! I would say it's in HOF territory for me now, even with those headlights.

Do you think it's possible to do a solid color and with darker wheels? I'd love to see what that would look like.


I would agree, Im liking the mods Vman,

Heres my edit, and probably the color scheme I end up with, Clean body, Dark Wheels, Keeping the bumper just blacking out the "ducts" and maybe new headlights?


Im nowhere near good at PS so excuse the graininess.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/enoyskt/818/818render.jpg

[Vman7]

Thanks everybody for the compliments, especially Dave Smith for his kind compliments :)

I would like to reiterate that these mod.s are no way in trying to sway Dave or FFR. Just some ideas of how ideas may come about in the future, either by FFR or by people on their own.

I believe Dave, Jim & the FFR Team have a very good base to build on, so lets keep up the positive thinking and let them do their thing! :)

Now if I can just get a 3/4 view of the rear......hint, hint........lol

Maybe later today or sat, I will clean up the decals and do a street version.

David

[j32driver]

I would like to reiterate that these mod.s are no way in trying to sway Dave or FFR.

I think we all get that. But Dave is observant about what is happening in the forums. I'm hoping that the instant GREAT reviews of Vmans modded nose will help influence the final production body. Vman has proven this body can get to HoF status with a little massaging. I have faith. Faith enough I'm starting to spool up the search for a donor.

[flynntuna]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10086&d=1339117570
10086

David

I like the look of the rear end on this. Diffuser really brings the whole look together. Simple yet very appealing. Plus the exhuast straight out the back is a must. Possibly something similar to this?http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/socal_a4/pagani-zonda-03.jpg Just an idea to toss around..

good work so far guys

[Flamshackle]

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

I like it... I like it a lot!

Problem is manufacturability? This bumper looks very complex to produce now?

[07FIREBLADE]

One hung the top vents can be used for could be mounting points for a soft top. Just the othe day I saw how the soft top is mounted behind the bumps of a 911 gt3 in person. I took some pics with my phone. It's hard to tell from the pics but in the top vent there is a mounting point where the top has a little D-Clip to attach. This may be an aftermarket sod top I don't quite know but it solves the mounting point for covering the roll cage.

I will try to post some pics when I figure out how too or I might just post a link to the pic.

[BipDBo]

Front intakes:

original:
10141

Vman #1:
10142

Vman#2:
10143

I like your first version of the front intakes more than the second version. The second version looks like it's trying to be mustang, but it reminds me of catfish. Plus the second version is less aerodynamic. To be honest, I like the original untouched front intake the best. All of the lines on the side of the car such as the rear fender intake and back edge of the door slope up and backward. In the original, the front corner slits match this slope. On your version, it's reversed. Also, the original slope is similar to that bump on the front corner of the GTM.

I'm not sure if these front corner splits actually do anything. If they provide some air flow to the wheel well, thats fine. If it's just a crease without any opening, I'd rather they be smoothed out. Hyundai has taken to adding a crease, perpindicular to the flow of air around their front grill. I doubt it has much effect on aerodynamics, but it just looks like it trips the air, and does not look good to me.
10144
I know that in some cases, engineers add vortice inducers to trip the air and actually decrease drag, but it is never on the leading edge. The inducer is always on a low pressure area of a convex curve.

[DrieStone]

I like your first version of the front intakes more than the second version. The second version looks like it's trying to be mustang, but it reminds me of catfish.

I disagree. I think the second version's front end transforms the car into a much more exotic looking animal. That's not to say that we have to choose (or even have the choice) between the two. It may be less aerodynamic, but sometimes a little bit of form needs to follow function. If we were designing the most efficient car it would be dimpled like a golf ball.

[shim2]

I disagree. I think the second version's front end transforms the car into a much more exotic looking animal. That's not to say that we have to choose (or even have the choice) between the two. It may be less aerodynamic, but sometimes a little bit of form needs to follow function. If we were designing the most efficient car it would be dimpled like a golf ball.

I agree. With that, I'd be completely happy with the car the way it is.

[Mechie3]

The second version front side scoop reminds me of this (it's a good thing):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Ferrari_F430_Scuderia.JPG

[Vman7]

Front intakes:

original:
10141

Vman #1:
10142

Vman#2:
10143

I like your first version of the front intakes more than the second version. The second version looks like it's trying to be mustang, but it reminds me of catfish. Plus the second version is less aerodynamic. To be honest, I like the original untouched front intake the best. All of the lines on the side of the car such as the rear fender intake and back edge of the door slope up and backward. In the original, the front corner slits match this slope. On your version, it's reversed. Also, the original slope is similar to that bump on the front corner of the GTM.

Version #2 venting area aka mouth, is base on my Vantage design, loosely based.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6511&d=1323022083

[xscott]

Oh how I miss teh Vantage design

[j32driver]

That is sexy!

[Vman7]

The more I look at mod #2 front vents, they are off, they go to the outside edge of the fender, when they should end just a little after the inside of the front tires when looking from the front.

So what I am going to do is readjust them, and also do a front view.

This pic shows somewhat where they need be on the side view.
I know it may look alittle strange, but will make sense when I show the front view.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10149&d=1339207171
10149

I will use this picture for the front view and make the opening taller to reflect Jim's front height, then modify the center area to reflect the center bar and lower area, plus change the airdam to reflect Jim's.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10150&d=1339207372
10150

[NonProfit]

Vman7, I really like your mods!

[zzospreyzz55]

Wow! Great job Vman! This is exactly what I was thinking was missing when I saw the original design. These kind of simple changes are really making the body round the corner so to speak. Thank you!

[Smitty911]

Vman,

You have some Real Talent, it's been a pleasure to review your drawings and modification.

Best of luck in your future.

Smitty

[imom]

I'm glad to see this forum back on track. Vman, I always love the design of the vantage. Given that we now have a 3/4 view, any chance you show a coupe version of Jim's modified suggestion you posted please? Thanks!

[07FIREBLADE]

1017410175

[07FIREBLADE]

1017610177

[07FIREBLADE]

Sorry double post was trying to make the pics bigger. In the first pic you can tell how the top is attached to the body. This I think FFR can incorporate into the soft top design if they haven't figured out how they are planning on doing it. Yes it may extend back farther on the car and is not completely enclosed like on most typical cars that are soft top convertibles. But it gets the job done. Its cheap and fairly easy to design. In the second picture you can see a different angle of of the top attaches. Also the third brake light could be incorporated into the design or we can add it in if we want to cover the roll bar that is extend between the two humps.

Lastly if someone quotes me and says that this is a GTS3, and it actually isn't i was only quoting exactlly what the owner of the car said. I went to Porsche's website and was trying to get different pics and angles of this top and all of there pics showed a different type of soft top more traditional.

[BipDBo]

Version #2 venting area aka mouth, is base on my Vantage design, loosely based.



It certainly worked on your design, but your intake was all the way at the bottom. One of the problems I'm having is that the side of the intake continues downward. To me, it gives it the look of whiskers hanging down from the edges of it's mouth.
10178
Secondly, I'm not sure what's actually going on in 3D. Perhaps it would just be a small creas like this Mustang concept:
10179
I think though it would look better terminating above a horizontal element like a bumper protrusion like the current Mustang:
10180

Maybe this mod just needs a little bit aof tweeking. I liked your other ideas, for what it's worth.

[kach22i]

No changes being offered, I just had to see the two side by side, without relying on memory by clicking the next button.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/GRID-Vman-Jim-SIDEBYSIDE.jpg

The Vman alterations do make the car look more aggressive, likes it's going faster while sitting still (a good thing).

[riptide motorsport]

Bringing the side vent into the door really sharpens this design up.

[mekeys]

I thinking my design doesn't look too bad after all..



http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/mekeys/img323_2.jpg

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/mekeys/img323-3.png

[flynntuna]

What if on the original design you add brake and/or footwell cooling ducts?

[NonProfit]

Possible street version: I took Vman's mods and removed the decals and wing.

10192

[VTX]

Possible street version: I took Vman's mods and removed the decals and wing.

10192

Looks great!

[shim2]

Possible street version: I took Vman's mods and removed the decals and wing.

10192

That looks great!

[slopoke]

Looks pretty darn good! Can somebody put a soft top on it?

[kach22i]

I took a walk today and spotted a new Mazda 6 parked a few blocks from my house. Dang those are good looking headlights, wonder what they would like on the 818.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/kach-Mazda6-headlights.jpg

I also found out what the trick to shortening the front overhang is. Gotta lower the hood height at the same time, otherwise it just looks snouty or stubby.

EDIT: Transformation into something I might want to put my name to.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/kach-alone-Mazda6-headlights-1.jpg

[skullandbones]

Kach,
At first glance I didn't see the subtle difference but the lowering of the hood really changed the whole look of the rendering with the street style windscreen. I'm surprised how such a suble change could make the whole body look better. I think a may have had a slight HOF effect!! Quite honestly, it took some of the OEM look out of the equation as well. You know, like when someone asks, "what is that?". Good work!!! WEK.

[Vman7]

Holy cow! bunch of comments that need to addressed........lol



1017610177

I saw that a while back when researching ideas for a soft top durning the contest. It's actually a very good idea. Who knows maybe that is what FFR may have in mind as a add-on.


It certainly worked on your design, but your intake was all the way at the bottom. One of the problems I'm having is that the side of the intake continues downward. To me, it gives it the look of whiskers hanging down from the edges of it's mouth.
10178
Maybe this mod just needs a little bit aof tweeking. I liked your other ideas, for what it's worth.

BipDBo, I am chuckling here as I read all that, not because it's wrong, because I was having somewhat of the same feeling. I was up last night working on the front view until about 3 A.M. and pretty much came to the same conclusion. Just a lot going on with the front end, with the horz. bar and such.

So I am thinking along the same lines as you are about ending the ctr openings at the ctr horz. bar.



The Vman alterations do make the car look more aggressive, likes it's going faster while sitting still (a good thing).

I agree, that is the main reason for the new side vent, which I feel adds the most to the aggressive look, as well as working with the front end.


Bringing the side vent into the door really sharpens this design up.

Thanks :), I thought that would help a lot.


What if on the original design you add brake and/or footwell cooling ducts?

That might be adding too much.


Possible street version: I took Vman's mods and removed the decals and wing.

10192

I see you got to that before me....lol, I was hoping to get to that today sometime.


I took a walk today and spotted a new Mazda 6 parked a few blocks from my house. Dang those are good looking headlights, wonder what they would like on the 818.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/kach-Mazda6-headlights.jpg

I also found out what the trick to shortening the front overhang is. Gotta lower the hood height at the same time, otherwise it just looks snouty or stubby.

Ok here is where it get tricky, this is going to take a lot of explaining in what I think is going on, of course this is just my thoughts on it, not necessarily what's going on in Jim's head.

1st of if you look close to Jim's design (top pic of Kachi22i 3) and you look at the driver side headlight, you will see how there is a hump before the headlight runs into the bumber area. Doesn't make a smooth transition, which I gather is part of Jim's design idea.

Also you have to remember there is a requirment for headlight height in states, and it varies from state to state. So this makes it hard to lower the top of the front end without making it too long, if you make it too short it gives the car a stumpy look. If you lower the front and make it too long, from the side view it makes the car look out of balance with the rear, which means you would have to make the rear longer.

Yes I agree that the front looks too high, but not by much, at first when I saw the design, if I didn't know it was a mid engine design, I would have thought it had a front engine.

But for now I would say leave the front/bumper height alone, other wise they are getting into major changes. For right now I would say just stay with some minor tweaks herer and there. Like I said before something that could be done either by FFR or people on their own later.

I will be post some updates later.

David

[Vman7]

oh BTW, forgot about my thinking on headlights and taillights.....lol

I talked about this way back in some other thread.

Not sure on the thinking behind using headlights from another car, I believe the ones being used are from a camry, but I could be wrong on that. At anyrate I did a search on camry headlights and ouch! they can get expensive per/unit, I saw some for almost $200 a unit.

That is why I purposed using Hella headlights, since you can get them almost anywhere and a lot less money, plus it takes away from that so called "oh look they used headlights from a ...." comment. But that is something again that could be done later in time as the design develops more.

Same kind of thinking with the rear taillights. From what I have seen in the past mockup pics of Jim's design, it looks like they are using Hella taillight for the big round ones, kind of like the ones on the GTM.

By using Hella taillights that are not LED, you can keep the price way down, and I mean way down.

Basic idea here is to work with what FFR has so far, and continue to let FFR stay on path.

Anyhoot enough rambling........lol

David

[kach22i]

Kach,
At first glance I didn't see the subtle difference but the lowering of the hood really changed the whole look of the rendering with the street style windscreen. I'm surprised how such a suble change could make the whole body look better. I think a may have had a slight HOF effect!! Quite honestly, it took some of the OEM look out of the equation as well. You know, like when someone asks, "what is that?". Good work!!! WEK.
I went back and modified the one with the 350Z (now looking like Ford Focus lights to me) headlights, a world of difference lowering the hood makes. It's looking tight, and light.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/Modify-GRID2-Vman-Jim.jpg

[Vman7]

kach22i, these are all good ideas, but we are talking about major changes here. So don't take this the wrong way :) need to read what I said in post #80.

These pics take away from the aggressive look, and somewhat reminds too much of the miata.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10193&d=1339275197
10193
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10194&d=1339275267
10194

We need to stay on the topic of this thread. Which is not about major changes! It's about working with what FFR has at this point, and what could be future development of the 818 of the current design. Not another body with major changes, that is a whole different subject.

David

[Xusia]

I agree about keeping the nose length. We've only seen one view of the body, so until we see more, I think it's premature to assume it's too long.

On the topic of grills, I REALLY like the honeycomb in Kach22i's last pic. Even if FFR has purposely limited the grill opening size (for functional/aerodynamic reasons?) you could always limit the actual size behind the honeycomb. Visually, I think it's very attractive and aggressive without being TOO edgy.

I also like the honeycomb on the rear side opening, but I wonder if it's necessary. The blank hole didn't look bad to me at all.

[kach22i]

kach22i, these are all good ideas, but we are talking about major changes here.
David/Vman, the shortened nose schemes are just a self indulgent exploration of what could have been.

The ambiguous nature of a long high hood on a mid-engined car, was best executed by the original Lamborghini Miura. That is a hard act to follow, and honestly many front engined cars like the Corvette have lower, sleeker hoods than the latest rendering by FFR.

I'm lamenting over what could have been, and fully realize that my personal preferences will not be met by FFR. Still, it was a fun exercise to see what could have been.

I will compliment the FFR 818 design and the changes David/Vman made in succeeding to look brash and bold in a very American way. I know I called it pedestrian, but it does have a certain audacity to buck the low hood, cab forward look one has grown accustomed to expecting in a mid-engine car. I clearly do not approve of this, but many others may decide they do like it, and good for them. Just expect the first question most people may ask when they first see the car to be; is the engine up front or in the back?

The 818 Androgynous?:o

EDIT: a picture is worth a thousand words, right?
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/GRID-analysis-818-shell-1.jpg

[Vman7]

David/Vman, the shortened nose schemes are just a self indulgent exploration of what could have been.

The ambiguous nature of a long high hood on a mid-engined car, was best executed by the original Lamborghini Miura. That is a hard act to follow, and honestly many front engined cars like the Corvette have lower, sleeker hoods than the latest rendering by FFR.

I'm lamenting over what could have been, and fully realize that my personal preferences will not be met by FFR. Still, it was a fun exercise to see what could have been.

I will compliment the FFR 818 design and the changes David/Vman made in succeeding to look brash and bold in a very American way. I know I called it pedestrian, but it does have a certain audacity to buck the low hood, cab forward look one has grown accustomed to expecting in a mid-engine car. I clearly do not approve of this, but many others may decide they do like it, and good for them. Just expect the first question most people may ask when they first see the car to be; is the engine up front or in the back?

The 818 Androgynous?:o

I agree, as you well know, look at my Vantage. I thought the same thing when first looking at FFR design, is the engine in the front......lol.

[Don DePontee]

This design is beautiful, much sleeker and aggressive looking. You've got a winner here.

Here is a more modified front vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10088&d=1339128154
10088

[Jeff Kleiner]

While considering some of these suggestions such as a shorter nose (which I happen to like very much visually) or lower hood line don't fall into the same trap that I believed occured with some of the designs that were not useable---forgetting that there are points under the body dictating where it has to be which many times determine what is or is not possible. For example, judging by this shot it looks like the hood line may not be able to come down until it is somewhat forward of the wheel centerline:

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DSC_6543.jpg

In that case if the front is made shorter the steeper, more abrupt drop to the bumper might not be aesthetic pleasing.

Regarding incorporating OEM headlights; many states require and check for DOT approval numbers which often times the less costly aftermarket units do not have.

Cheers,
Jeff

[kach22i]

.......For example, judging by this shot it looks like the hood line may not be able to come down until it is somewhat forward of the wheel centerline:
Jeff, I see the high point of the chassis frame holding suspension components located on axis with the centerline of the front wheels, and not too much higher than the wheels. They did an excellent job of keeping these points low, thereby creating the opportunity for a low hood.

In my opinion, and yes this goes way back to the original template, the radiator mounting and mounting angle have been the bottleneck to a true low hood line. I do see positive changes in this area, they have from what I can see, lowered the radiator and increased it's slope for a lower profile. This may have contribute to the need for a long nose as the angle is increased and the radiator jutted forward, but I just don't have enough information to be sure.

Finally, the three short nose schemes together, this morning I seem to be favoring the bottom one. The top one needs the rear haunch blended with the top of the door better, as it now appears disjointed. This condition is being caused/aggravated by the strong horizontal line of the side vent.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/3low-noses.jpg

Note: Lotus has been mounting radiators horizontal for quite a while now, I'm no engineer, so I cannot tell you what this entails, and what modifications to the Subie unit would have to be made.
http://elsiefrombottomtotop.blogspot.com/2011/12/australia-71211-history.html
10199

EDIT: 06/11/12 Fixed the belt-line per my original comments.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/kach2-alone2-Mazda6-headlights2.jpg

[VTX]

I agree, as you well know, look at my Vantage. I thought the same thing when first looking at FFR design, is the engine in the front......lol.

I really think we should wait to see some more angles and possibly even the car in real life. I can't help but think that renderings aren't quite doing it justice and that the front hood will appear plenty low and short, and look the part of a mid engined car once we see more. And that if FFR actually tried to shorten/lower the hood it might actually look a little odd in real life.

I could be wrong, but I am waiting to see more shots before I get to far down one road of thinking in my mind about how this car will look when finished.

That being said, of all the modifications I've seen, I love Vman's the best and would love it if FFR incorporated some of those design elements. Although FFR's design has grown on me some from when I first saw it and I still think it's a nice looking car.

[SkiRideDrive]

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DSC_6543.jpg
Jeff

Jeff, thanks for sharing. Any chance you have a high res version of that photo?

Also, does anyone know what brand/model those seats are in the photo? They appear pretty nice and more bolstered than a production seat would be.

-Kevin

[shim2]

I believe that's the highest res. It's from FFR's directory, it was also posted on facebook.

[cmcintyre]

Also, does anyone know what brand/model those seats are in the photo? They appear pretty nice and more bolstered than a production seat would be.

-Kevin

At the open house, Jim said they were out of the GTM. Same with the shifter.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Any chance you have a high res version of that photo?

-Kevin

No, sorry, as shim pointed out I just found it on FFR's site. I came up with this one courtesy of Scott L:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/scottlcobra/2012%20Open%20House/DSC_0206.jpg

It gives a better representation of how far ahead of the wheels that the radiator is.

Unrelated but still interesting, I see by looking at the UCA adjustments that Jim has quite a bit of caster dialed in (generally that's all good for camber gain, stability and self centering). Yeah, I'm gonna' like this thing :D

Jeff

[Vman7]

While considering some of these suggestions such as a shorter nose (which I happen to like very much visually) or lower hood line don't fall into the same trap that I believed occured with some of the designs that were not useable---forgetting that there are points under the body dictating where it has to be which many times determine what is or is not possible. For example, judging by this shot it looks like the hood line may not be able to come down until it is somewhat forward of the wheel centerline:

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DSC_6543.jpg

In that case if the front is made shorter the steeper, more abrupt drop to the bumper might not be aesthetic pleasing.

Regarding incorporating OEM headlights; many states require and check for DOT approval numbers which often times the less costly aftermarket units do not have.

Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff, I agree, with all that is going on up front, it would be major changes to lower the body and shorten. check post #80

As far as the Headlights and taillights being DOT approved, the ones I suggested are from Hella which are DOT approved.


I really think we should wait to see some more angles and possibly even the car in real life. I can't help but think that renderings aren't quite doing it justice and that the front hood will appear plenty low and short, and look the part of a mid engined car once we see more. And that if FFR actually tried to shorten/lower the hood it might actually look a little odd in real life.

I could be wrong, but I am waiting to see more shots before I get to far down one road of thinking in my mind about how this car will look when finished.

That being said, of all the modifications I've seen, I love Vman's the best and would love it if FFR incorporated some of those design elements. Although FFR's design has grown on me some from when I first saw it and I still think it's a nice looking car.

I was referring to kach22i when he was talking about lowering the front, when I said "I agree, as you well know, look at my Vantage. I thought the same thing when first looking at FFR design, is the engine in the front......lol."

That's just the look I like, referring to a classic look such as the Vantage and others. But that being said I still like the FFR current design and FFR should go ahead with it.


No, sorry, as shim pointed out I just found it on FFR's site. I came up with this one courtesy of Scott L:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/scottlcobra/2012%20Open%20House/DSC_0206.jpg

It gives a better representation of how far ahead of the wheels that the radiator is. Jeff

The pictures you showed in Posts #88 and #94 both in this post. Show and make the point about changing the front end being lower and possibly being shorter, is a major change.

David

[Vman7]

Sorry I didn't get some update pics up last night.

Right now I am still working on cleaning up the decals etc. so I can have a base to work with for doing some minor mods (which most have been posted, just need refining) and showing a street version.

[305mouse]

I was hoping for a little storage room up front, looks like thats not gonna happen.

[shim2]

Maybe behind over the transmission. That doesn't look like enough room for an adequate storage compartment.

[SkiRideDrive]

Ah I see. Thanks for the replies guys.

[Vman7]

Here are some updates.

Orig. Street. Not sure on the size or shape of Windshield that FFR is using, but you get the idea.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10206&d=1339378908
10206

Mod.s

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10207&d=1339379008
10207

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10208&d=1339379094
10208

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10209&d=1339379163
10209

Enjoy! :)
David

[shim2]

Those look awesome Vman. I'd be ecstatic to own any of them. I like the way Jim's design could potentially look, but your tweaks definitely give it that HoF look.

[Xusia]

Thanks, David. Those are great!

[Someday I Suppose]

Jeff, I asked Jim about how much caster they had in the car, he said at the test it was around 3, but since then I think he said they moved the upper arm back a little giving it more caster, but it has not be realigned since, so he didn't know how much it was sitting with. The steering with a depowered stock rack with the car standing still was still really light, I am thinking you will be able to run a ton of caster in the car when all is said and done.

-Scott



No, sorry, as shim pointed out I just found it on FFR's site. I came up with this one courtesy of Scott L:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/scottlcobra/2012%20Open%20House/DSC_0206.jpg

It gives a better representation of how far ahead of the wheels that the radiator is.

Unrelated but still interesting, I see by looking at the UCA adjustments that Jim has quite a bit of caster dialed in (generally that's all good for camber gain, stability and self centering). Yeah, I'm gonna' like this thing :D

Jeff

[NonProfit]

Looks great David! Feel like throwing a set of WRX wheels on the body with the modified vents?

[Vman7]

Revised Front Vent Area

I revised Vents A by moving the outer edge more to the ctr, curved top left ctr grille.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10211&d=1339388428
10211

Front Vents A2 open

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10212&d=1339388517
10212

[imom]

Any chance of what you have now...with a coupe version David?

[xscott]

Can we get a uniform color instead of the stripe down the middle and some dark wheels Vman :)

[timmy318]

Well, from what I'm understanding is that this is only their racing version, they supposedly have another design cooking up for more "casual" use :P, look here at the middle of the page..... I don't know for sure but either 3 of these cars would be an honor to drive!

[Vman7]

Any chance of what you have now...with a coupe version David?

Maybe in the future, but for right now I need a 3/4 rear view for the coupe, to get more of an idea for the overall shape.


Can we get a uniform color instead of the stripe down the middle and some dark wheels Vman :)

I might be able to do that, take a little bit of work though, probably just be in blue, maybe another color like red later.
As far as wheels go, depends, if it's the same style of wheels, yes.

David

[timmy318]

http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/..... whoops, here it is

[Vman7]

Soft Top, just a rough idea of one might look like.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10213&d=1339397505
10213

[shinn497]

great work, but the soft top doesn't do it for me. Not your fault though, and your other renders are beautiful....

[Vman7]

great work, but the soft top doesn't do it for me. Not your fault though, and your other renders are beautiful....

Thanks! Yeah I am not a soft top fan myself, either spyder or targa/coupe are more my style.

[Vman7]

Ok know I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10214&d=1339401356
10214

[Martin]

Yup.

I'm definitely looking forward to a coupe version.


Ok know I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10214&d=1339401356
10214

[shinn497]

You know what is getting me is the way the back slopes down and the long roof. It looks too much like a chrysler or even a vehron.

Out of curiosity, could you do a revision of the street spyder with a black more aggressive lip?

[Kalstar]

I'm liking the soft top more than the hardtop coupe. Great work!

[DrieStone]

Ok know I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10214&d=1339401356
10214

I'm digging this.

[kach22i]

Vman, a humble suggestion. Maybe you can improve upon this rough layout.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/MODIFIED-SRMods1CT.jpg

EDIT: reference images
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?15060-2006-Dodge-Viper-SRT-10-GTS-Blue-Low-Miles-Warranty
10215

http://www.sportscarcup.com/dodge-viper-srt10-coupe/
10216

http://www.sportscarcup.com/dodge-viper-srt10-coupe/dodge-viper-srt10-coupe-backside/
10217

http://www.bopmyspace.com/image_15/porsche_cayman
10218

http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?4921758-Porsche-Cayman-Appreciation
10219

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-pictures/porsche-cayman-2011-picture_5801247
10220

[Oppenheimer]

I'm thinking FFR will want to go with a different 'look' for the Coupe. They will have time to work on a different design (Coupe not releasing till some time after Roadster). Either take one of the popular designs and make it fit, manufacturable, etc, or a whole new in-house design.

The Coupe is supposed to be the MPG version, so it needs to be slippery (where is Dan when we need him? Kidding.) The design we have now had different goals.

Besides, this is the opportunity for FFR to create different looks to attract a larger audience. Now, does it make sense to ultimately build a hardtop option for the Roadster? Sure. So it still makes sense to keep working on what the above could look like, but I'm thinking its more hardtop for Roadster look, not 818 Coupe look.

PS - I like where Kach is going with the Caymen roofline. I think that would look better on this car.

[Vman7]

Vman, a humble suggestion. Maybe you can improve upon this rough layout.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/MODIFIED-SRMods1CT.jpg

It was real late or should I say early in the morning.......lol when I did the coupe mock up, mostly just playing around. I don't really like the shape of it. Really hard to get a feel for the shape without some other views of the car. I might take a look at the red side view FFR has on their web site. I like the idea you came up with :)


I'm thinking FFR will want to go with a different 'look' for the Coupe. They will have time to work on a different design (Coupe not releasing till some time after Roadster). Either take one of the popular designs and make it fit, manufacturable, etc, or a whole new in-house design.

The Coupe is supposed to be the MPG version, so it needs to be slippery (where is Dan when we need him? Kidding.) The design we have now had different goals.

Besides, this is the opportunity for FFR to create different looks to attract a larger audience. Now, does it make sense to ultimately build a hardtop option for the Roadster? Sure. So it still makes sense to keep working on what the above could look like, but I'm thinking its more hardtop for Roadster look, not 818 Coupe look.

PS - I like where Kach is going with the Caymen roofline. I think that would look better on this car.

That's mostly what I was hoping for, a complete different design for a targa/coupe. Mostly just playing around late last night....lol

[Vman7]

I hope Dave sees post #105 with the new updated front, A2 & A2B.

Now if I can just get a 3/4 view of the rear.......hint, hint....lol (edit, damn think I would know how to spell now by now.......lol)

[shim2]

I hope Dave sees post #105 with the new updated front, A2 & A2B.

Know if I can just get a 3/4 view of the rear.......hint, hint....lol

Would love to see more views of the car. Wouldn't hold my breath on it though.

[DrieStone]

Vman, a humble suggestion. Maybe you can improve upon this rough layout.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/MODIFIED-SRMods1CT.jpg


I love the flat roof of Vman's version, I think it follows the belt line fairly well. Too much of a curve and it takes on too much of the Porsche look (and I'm not a Porsche fan).

I suppose it's all a bit moot though since the coupe is going to be a different body style. That said, this doesn't preclude the idea that Vman's top couldn't be a hard-top shell.

I think my taste is different from a lot of the others here though (I think my '05 WRX is the best looking model since they brought the WRX to the US, and my Esprit is the 2nd best looking car of all time).

[kach22i]

I was checking out this gallery today:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=117

Did a little Cut & Paste for kicks.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/Modified-DarkPTJune2012.jpg

I guess I used to watch too much of "What If They Mated?" by Conan O'Brien.:cool:

[Jacob McCrea]

George's rendering of the 818 with the roof, immediately above, is one of the best 818 designs I have seen to date. I would spend my own money on that.

[kach22i]

Another parts bin swap....................Franken-818:p
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/newnose-MODIFIED-SRMods1CT.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/2newnose-MODIFIED-SRMods1CT.jpg

[vozproto]

Vman your renderings are lookin pretty sick man.
That front end and side scoops are really makin it super aggressive lookin. (me likey)

Here is a question to Vman and others.

So I have seen headlight "eyeline" kits on a few cars that make the headlight look SUPER aggressive. I think one of the best examples is the S2000. Its just a piece of plastic that is color matched and completely changes the look. This could be a SUPER SIMPLE solution for both Dave and the forum. Heck... could even offer a 2-3 different eyeliners as an add-on or simply which to integrate into your build.

Any chance one of you rendering wizards wanna experiment with THAT vs changing out the whole headlight?
(I would personally prefer to see it on the more aggressive Vman renderings :D )

[SkiRideDrive]

Vman your renderings are lookin pretty sick man.
That front end and side scoops are really makin it super aggressive lookin. (me likey)

Here is a question to Vman and others.

So I have seen headlight "eyeline" kits on a few cars that make the headlight look SUPER aggressive. I think one of the best examples is the S2000. Its just a piece of plastic that is color matched and completely changes the look. This could be a SUPER SIMPLE solution for both Dave and the forum. Heck... could even offer a 2-3 different eyeliners as an add-on or simply which to integrate into your build.

Any chance one of you rendering wizards wanna experiment with THAT vs changing out the whole headlight?
(I would personally prefer to see it on the more aggressive Vman renderings :D )

Is this what you had in mind Vozproto?

http://www.ladiesgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/3-Personalize-Your-Car-With-Eyelashes-and-Eyeliner-2.jpg

lol

[shinn497]

Actually, I think that the type 65 coupe comparison highlights some of the issues with this approach. The fastback style coupled with the cab rearward design doesn't distinquish itself from a FR car. I think, for the coupe, they should try something more organic like rodney or nouphone's rear. But that's me.

[kach22i]

....headlight "eyeline" kits .... S2000.
I looked into it, seems to make a difference on the S2000, but maybe the height is not the problem here, it's the width.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/eyeline-Vman-Jim-SIDEBYSIDE.jpg

Coupe version of the short nose.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/GRID-short-nose.jpg

[FFR-ADV]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10214&d=1339401356
10214[/QUOTE]

Here is a variation on the Coupe theme - Toward a Targa. I was thinking how vinyl could be applied to extend the side scoop visually onto the door even if the
3D shape does not extend onto the door and remains as it was presented on the 818r. Perhaps a similar aproach could be taken to a 2 layer Targa bar, where the inner bar bridges as shown, while a second layer rakes back to form the upper air scoop. Again a vinyl application could force the transition of the scoop making it apear deeper than it is. Perhaps even deep black faux carbon fiber vinyl could be used for this effect, with a neet effect up close as well. I expect that subtle applications of vinyl could have some striking impact.

10229

Cheers!

[FFR-ADV]

How about a Targa with a wing?

10230

Cheers!

[flyboy2160]

go ahead and kick me off the forum, but i seriously dislike the body shape shown:

-it looks like a vette/nissan/viper/BRZ child front engine car . nothing about it screams "mid engine."

-it isn't distinctive - not HOF. It looks just bland, like the new subaru/toyota cars.

[kach22i]

go ahead and kick me off the forum, but i seriously dislike the body shape shown:

-it looks like a vette/nissan/viper/BRZ child front engine car . nothing about it screams "mid engine."

-it isn't distinctive - not HOF. It looks just bland, like the new subaru/toyota cars.
It's a mid-engined car, for knuckle dragging front engine RWD lovers.:)

[Oppenheimer]

I just want it to look good. I don't really care if there is room for doubt where the engine is when people look at the car.

[NonProfit]

It's a mid-engined car, for knuckle dragging front engine RWD lovers.:)

kach22i, that was quite funny!

I grabbed some other mid-engine designs and I think the 818's profile ranks quite well.

10232
Ferrari 328 GTS

10233
Fiat X1/9

10234
Honda NSX

10235
Lotus Esprit

10236
Pontiac Fiero

10237
Porsche Boxster

10238
Porsche Cayman S

10239
Toyota MR2

[Mechie3]

The last two in post 131 look too much like the first generation evora to me or an older mr2. I much prefer the top two images over the bottom two.

[imom]

David,
Thanks for the quick mock up of the coupe...gives me a good idea... looking forward to a more refined version when you get the 3/4 rear views and single color... to see the whole depth of the car.

[BipDBo]

It's a mid-engined car, for knuckle dragging front engine RWD lovers.:)

The rendering really doesn't give the image any scale. This is going to be a pretty small car, Miata sized. One of the design goals was to make it wookie sized on the inside, but making it's overall dimensions small was necessary to keep it light. The compact size of the boxer 4 sure helped. This hood is going to look pretty low, and will probably look like it doesn't have room to contain an engine. When you look at the go cart, which you can tell, was designed with some crash protection in mind, you can see that they pushed the hood down as low as possible. When compared to Xabier's drawing, the final design had a much lower, sloped hood. Xabier's hood, was higher and had a Miata like curve to it, which to me, made it look more like a front engine car.

I think that if someone photoshopped in a six foot tall man standing next to the car, we would have a better idea of how small the car is, and how low that front intake is. It would be tricky, considering I'm not sure what sized wheels they used in the rendering. Maybe shopping in another well known car like a Mustang next to it would aslo help.

[Flamshackle]

I think that if someone photoshopped in a six foot tall man standing next to the car, we would have a better idea of how small the car is, and how low that front intake is. It would be tricky, considering I'm not sure what sized wheels they used in the rendering. Maybe shopping in another well known car like a Mustang next to it would aslo help.

I think it's safe to do this assuming the wheels are 18"

Come on, who is keen and has the skills to pull this off?

[bromikl]

[QUOTE=kach22i;63379]Vman, a humble suggestion. Maybe you can improve upon this rough layout.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/MODIFIED-SRMods1CT.jpg

Now it's a 350Z with an extra long hood. :-/

[kach22i]

.........you can see that they pushed the hood down as low as possible. When compared to Xabier's drawing, the final design had a much lower, sloped hood. Xabier's hood, was higher and had a Miata like curve to it, which to me, made it look more like a front engine car.
I would not go that far, but it is a tiny bit lower from what I can tell, and the angle of the radiator appearers to have been increased.

A post from last month:
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/?start=20
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/OVERLAY-rojotecho.jpg

I think the blue car is different than the red "substrate" in many ways, including a higher and longer hood.


The last two in post 131 look too much like the first generation evora to me or an older mr2. I much prefer the top two images over the bottom two.

I love the Evora, and like all versions of the MR2.


I grabbed some other mid-engine designs and I think the 818's profile ranks quite well.

We currently do not have a side profile of the blue car, so a proper evaluation using side views, and side views of dated designs have very limited value. A comparison to a Elise, Evora and Boxster/Cayman might be as close as we can get. Using the red substate of the later two we get this:
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/ffr-818-Boxster-side.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/2Blue-ffr-818-computer-side.jpg

[BipDBo]

I would not go that far, but it is a tiny bit lower from what I can tell, and the angle of the radiator appearers to have been increased.

I think the blue car is different than the red "substrate" in many ways, including a higher and longer hood.



I love the Evora, and like all versions of the MR2.

Xabier never drew his car in Cad, and I think that as a result, his profile drawing showed a little bit different car than his original 1/4 view drawing.
10240

[RM1SepEx]

Most states require 22 inch headlight center line height, that limits how low a nose can go

we could postulate forever on this design, you like it or don't, vmans "tweaks" are nice inputs, I can take them or leave them

I like the idea of throwing some ideas out there as it isn't yet "set in stone"

I'd prefer to see I like this, don't like that vs the derogatory it looks like xxxx comments

I'm buying and building... PERIOD :):D I think that it looks like a sweet ride and it will kick butt

[kach22i]

Angles are different, but using the wheels, and wheelbase as a measuring unit, it still looks to me that the overhang on the new blue car, went from 18" to 24" approx.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile%202%20-%20Odds%20and%20Ends/Comp-818R.jpg

[bbjones121]

Like the changes to the body, but dont really like the Z headlights.

[kach22i]

Most states require 22 inch headlight center line height, that limits how low a nose can go...
Excellent point, and perhaps the reason nobody tried a scheme of lowering the hood-line with the Camry headlights.

[BipDBo]

Most states require 22 inch headlight center line height, that limits how low a nose can go


If the tires are 24" diameter, then those headlights looks at about 22". The top of the intake looks like it's around 14". Take out a ruler and mark those measurements on a wall. This is low.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I think kach's overlay with the Boxster provide some dimensional perspective of the actual size of this car. In the flesh, I think this car will be lower and appear more mid-engined than the rendering indicates.

[BipDBo]

To get an idea of scale, here is a 5'-7" Jeff Gordon standing proudly in front of his new 818.
10241
He's standing close to the car, roughly the same distance from the camera as the front wheel.

[vozproto]

Is this what you had in mind Vozproto?

http://www.ladiesgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/3-Personalize-Your-Car-With-Eyelashes-and-Eyeliner-2.jpg

lol

Hahaha. Yeah. That's EXACTLY what I had in mind... :p

[kach22i]

I think kach's overlay with the Boxster provide some dimensional perspective of the actual size of this car. In the flesh, I think this car will be lower and appear more mid-engined than the rendering indicates.

The 818 nose would look even more favorable compared with the more familiar pre-2013 nose which is a couple inches longer. However, that aspect of the Boxster/911 was always been a sore spot with Porsche fans, which is why they went to great effort to reduce the generous front and rear overhangs on the 2013 models.

Keeping it in context and perspective is good, but also keep in mind that I think the older red substrate side view, does not match the blue car perspective, at least where the hood line and overhang are concerned.

I mean, seriously........do you think they even come close to matching?

[Oppenheimer]

To get an idea of scale, here is a 5'-7" Jeff Gordon standing proudly in front of his new 818.
10241
He's standing close to the car, roughly the same distance from the camera as the front wheel.

His sponsers aren't going to happy that the logos on his suit don't match those on the car. I mean really, Dupont auto paint is the biggest logo on his body, and the 818 doesn't even use paint!

[kach22i]

Jeff looked lonely.

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks for the updates Vman!

Here is an updated Targa version with wing and rear side window similar to the GTM.

10242

A splitter on the front with some small front carnards would be fun. Maybe a pic with the Targa off.

Cheers!

[Vman7]

<<<<scratching head....I forget what's this thread about again?......rofl

[FFR-ADV]

Here is some mid engine inspiration for some of the track goodies:

10243

Cheers!

[Vman7]

Thanks for the updates Vman!

Here is an updated Targa version with wing and rear side window similar to the GTM.

10242

A splitter on the front with some small front carnards would be fun. Maybe a pic with the Targa off.

Cheers!

Not bad! the rear side window is back too far though, if you follow up the side vent (remember since it is out further, it sits back further then where the rear side window would be). If you look at the mock up I did, the upper vent bottom sits right where it should, so when you are looking at it straight on from the side the side bottom vent and the top vent line right up.

[Racebrewer]

Thanks George! That last pic helped clarify the pair of oversized round wheels used on the 818.

BTW, Was the plastic bodywork a coincidence?

John

[FFR-ADV]

<<<<scratching head....I forget what's this thread about again?......rofl

Hi Vman,

I hope you don't mind my edits. They are possible modifications to the Factory Five 818 design using add on hardtops like those on other convertibles. In the FFR Roadster world several outside vendors provide hard tops, one is even developing a gull wing hardtop.

Thank you for the compliment. I did take some liberties with the top vent location to make the upper vent play off the lower vent. Since cuttouts are generally an option (for extra $ from FFR) I expect we could have that cutout left out and put one where it will work better with a Targa top. Black vinyl could force the shadow lines you have in your images. The rear window could be applied over hidden structure if it is darkened, but would still decrease some of the blind spot.

I would love it if you would put your special designer's touch to this concept. Thanks again!

Cheers!

[Vman7]

I don't think I am going to post anymore pics here anymore (this thread). Gets to the point where you don't know what's what, who did what, ends up being one big confusing mess. Always gets way off topic, not just in this thread but many, many others as well.

My Vantage thread got to the point where you didn't know which was actually the Vantage or some other yahoo's mod of it, just got confusing for those who came in the middle of the thread.

This is a common problem in forums, people hijacking threads. But it is what it is, not worth making big deal out of it.

David

[Vman7]

Hi Vman,

I hope you don't mind my edits. They are possible modifications to the Factory Five 818 design using add on hardtops like those on other convertibles. In the FFR Roadster world several outside vendors provide hard tops, one is even developing a gull wing hardtop.

Thank you for the compliment. I did take some liberties with the top vent location to make the upper vent play off the lower vent. Since cuttouts are generally an option (for extra $ from FFR) I expect we could have that cutout left out and put one where it will work better with a Targa top. Black vinyl could force the shadow lines you have in your images. The rear window could be applied over hidden structure if it is darkened, but would still decrease some of the blind spot.

I would love it if you would put your special designer's touch to this concept. Thanks again!

Cheers!

Yours are fine, at least you can still tell which car it is, either FFR or FFR's with small mod.s not the major changes, which get confusing.

Only thing I would change on yours is the upper side vent shape and the bottom end point, like I said sits back too far

[wallace18]

I am glad someone is stopping this thread. I am tired of all the edits. Can't we wait for the real thing?

[Vman7]

I am glad someone is stopping this thread. I am tired of all the edits. Can't we wait for the real thing?

Yeah and it's my thread, but you wouldn't know it. I guess some don't understand when I said "this thread is not about major changes"

Advice :) If you want to change the topic of a thread, then start your own thread about it.

This is why I will never again post an update to the Vantage Design Project again, any updates will go directly to Dave S. if he inquires about them, other then that NO.

[imom]

Vman, your contributions have been really good to 818 forum. A lot of folks just get excited about your concept and added some of their own feedbacks...if you didn't want feedback, just say it instead of clamming up. I did modify some of your vantage drawings in the vantage thread, but if you noticed in this thread, I never once touched any...just made requests.

Anyways...if you decide to not do anymore post of drawings... thanks for the vantage drawings...it was really pretty...especially the rear view... is my favorite.

P.s. Reading again on the last several posts, I can see some members did thread jack and went way off topic... Too bad we don't have a mod to direct traffic and tell those members to start a new post.

[NonProfit]

If I'm to blame for posting those other mid-engine designs, I'm sorry.

[VTX]

Vman,

Sorry your thread got wrecked. I was really liking your designs and I hope you start a new thread where we can discuss just your stuff.

[bromikl]

There's a way to prevent Hijacked Thread Syndrome. If the people making suggestions always post a current "official" rendition of the car being discussed, they'd be more likely to stay on topic.

[BipDBo]

Yeah and it's my thread, but you wouldn't know it. I guess some don't understand when I said "this thread is not about major changes"

Advice :) If you want to change the topic of a thread, then start your own thread about it.

This is why I will never again post an update to the Vantage Design Project again, any updates will go directly to Dave S. if he inquires about them, other then that NO.

Threads do get jacked, but I don't see that this thread has been jacked or wrecked at all. There are always subtopics to discuss. The mid-engine look subtopic, for example, was rooted in the question of whether the nose could/should be shortened and/or lowered.

As for major or minor changes, the title of the thread is"New 818 Look, Possible Future Mod.s" I don't think that it's such a major change and I think that it fits within this thread to envision this design as a coupe, targa or with an add on hard top.

It would be nice if some of the ideas proposed here are incorprated into the final product, but I'd bet that at this point, the chances of that are fairly slim. Vman, you've got some very good ideas, and have definately further improved the look of the car, but at this point, there probably quickly closing up the design so that they can move on to building moulds. Also, Dave doesn't seem all that cozy with the 818 forum lately either. This is all, therefore, really just for our entertainment anyway so let's just loosen up.

[mekeys]

Major changes ?????

I don't see any..

Mel

[enoyskt]

Major changes ?????

I don't see any..

Mel

I think Vman is talking about images of modifications that are more like structural alterations.

IE: (shorting or lengthing the front of the car and or hood)

These are structural changes that do not comply with what we are talking about "Minor Mods to the current image of the 818".

[GS guy]

I think I'm with you Vman. Your updates have really transformed the car, but going any further is just more BS speculation and basically chatter.
I do hope Dave can incoporate at least the intent of your mods in the front end before the molds are finalized, it just does so much to the overall looks of the car - like it's moving when standing still (as mentioned by another poster).

With Dave stating he's basically closing back off the info tap, looks like it's time to tune out until closer to November. Just too darned frustating wading through all the BS looking for real info. - especially on the daily basis (yes, I've been hooked too!) that I've been doing since the announcement of this car.

[Flamshackle]

^^^same I check this forum daily (or more) and now Im coming to terms with the fact that the few did actually spoil the brew.

So I will be gone till end of October now. I am deleting the Forum link from my browser so I don't waste any more time here...

See you great people end of October...

Flamshackle over and out.

[shim2]

I think I will be joining you guys. It's mostly just speculation, chatter and opinions about how the car needs to look. It really does suck a few soiled all the fun. Ah well. In the mean time I'll just prepare myself and my space for the 818.

[Vman7]

I read all the new posts, thanks for all the input :)

A couple I would like to address directly


If I'm to blame for posting those other mid-engine designs, I'm sorry.

Don't be, you didn't do anything.


There's a way to prevent Hijacked Thread Syndrome. If the people making suggestions always post a current "official" rendition of the car being discussed, they'd be more likely to stay on topic.

That's a very good idea, mostly in the Thread topic area.

Ok as to the rest of the recent posts. Thanks again for all the input :)

Most get the idea, it was the major changes to the front end lowering, shorting etc., that I was refering to about being major changes, not only in bodywork, but structural as well. I was trying to avoid that discussion in this thread, and stay mostly with minor changes that could be done either later by FFR or by people building the 818 themselves. And yes I did put one in about a Coupe, but if you notice I said "Ok now I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol" in post #114, which probably didn't help any, since I don't think a few read the post understanding the ...lol part.

I had no problem with the coupe ideas, since it doesn't exist, so it's not a major change or anything.

It's was the changing the front end in a major way and comparing it to other peoples car designs, which has nothing to do with the "current existing 818 design", which by the way again I have no problem with overall.

At this point, some people (not pointing finger at any one person here) just won't let go of certain overall car designs.

It is what it is, and some need to understand that, and support Dave and FFR, and not try to so called "force them" in a certain direction.

So for now, let all stay postive and patient and let Dave, Jim and the FFR Team do what they do best. :)

I will probably add some more little ideas, but not sure if I should start a new thread and put in the Topic area about being the "current 818 design" or something like that.

David

[ScottKoschwitz]

With Dave stating he's basically closing back off the info tap, looks like it's time to tune out until closer to November. Just too darned frustating wading through all the BS looking for real info. - especially on the daily basis (yes, I've been hooked too!) that I've been doing since the announcement of this car.

I agree. I've been following the development of the car since early last year, when I stumbled across it while searching for Lotus 7 kits. I went to the Open House last year, and followed the body design. Since things will be quiet, it's probably best to check in around SEMA. I considered going to this year's Open House, but I'll plan to attend the next year, when the R, and maybe even the street version, will be in the flesh. (I'll bring my checkbook just in case. :))

[NonProfit]

Sounds like a lot of folks are planning on stepping away until SEMA.

In two weeks, Dave's "Milk Carton Guy" thread has nearly 22,000 views. This forum has some traffic, I hate to see it go dormant for six months (I enjoy it here)!

[bromikl]

Sadly, I have no delusions about FFR taking our suggestions on this design. I'm pretty sure they will make the molds from the render they've given us. I think your changes look great, and even Dave has said so. However in the same post he talked about how 2-D changes have "logarithmic" consequences.

It's fun to daydream; and I'm glad for the distraction while we wait, Vman7. Thanks.

[Vman7]

Sadly, I have no delusions about FFR taking our suggestions on this design. I'm pretty sure they will make the molds from the render they've given us. I think your changes look great, and even Dave has said so. However in the same post he talked about how 2-D changes have "logarithmic" consequences.

It's fun to daydream; and I'm glad for the distraction while we wait, Vman7. Thanks.

Dave is right about the "logarithic" consequences, whole different thing in the real world.

yeppers! it is fun to daydream......lol

Last night I had a thought, yes I know I could hurt my brain.........lol, anyhoot I keep forgetting about the Gallery Albums. I was thinking maybe I could do an album and have a link to it, that way people can just look at the pics, with out having to read though all the posts. :)

David

[Exidous]

Vman,

I just want to say that your mods to the body made a big improvement on getting it closer to the HoF status everyone is after. I personally don't think it's there yet but your mods certainly helped a ton. Keep it up!

Patrick

[Vman7]

I added a Album (Current 818 Design May 2012 Mod.s) so you can just look at the pics.

Go here http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=337

Enjoy! :)

David

[Vman7]

I deleted all the pics in the Album for now, until I get all the updated ones done and uploaded.

Geezz...I guess I'll have to change all the ones in the thread to.......arhhhh.

All the new updated ones will have the new higher windshield, plus higher soft top and coupe.

David

[Vman7]

All new updated versions w/higher windshield.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10334&d=1339989195
10334
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10335&d=1339989291
10335
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10336&d=1339989371
10336
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10337&d=1339989454
10337
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10338&d=1339989519
10338

New higher Soft Top & Coupe

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10339&d=1339989625
10339
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10340&d=1339989683
10340

New Album Link
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=337&attachmentid=10357

David

[Vman7]

I knew I forgot one......lol

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10366&d=1340007610
10366

[jimgood]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
10368

[Vman7]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
10368

It's an optical illusion, the orig (top one of your pics) actually wraps around the corner. Where as the bottom pic. (vents A2 & A2B) are just before going around to the side.

[Oppenheimer]

I think thats his point, not that it is longer, but that it makes it appear longer. I think he means there has already been talk that the overhang seems too long, suggestions it would look better with less, etc. And that while the grill mods shown in this thread look cool, one (potentially negative) side effect is they make the overhang appear longer.

His point is not something I noticed before, but now that he has pointed it out, I do see what he means. Still, it doesn't change my opinion that the grill (and other) mods really make the car look much nicer. But for those thinking the overhang is too long already, I can see how that POV.

[Silvertop]

I think thats his point, not that it is longer, but that it makes it appear longer. I think he means there has already been talk that the overhang seems too long, suggestions it would look better with less, etc. And that while the grill mods shown in this thread look cool, one (potentially negative) side effect is they make the overhang appear longer.

His point is not something I noticed before, but now that he has pointed it out, I do see what he means. Still, it doesn't change my opinion that the grill (and other) mods really make the car look much nicer. But for those thinking the overhang is too long already, I can see how that POV.

While the suggested change DOES look sort of cool, the grill as drawn by FFR has no real issues either. How much real function would the secondary vents actually provide? Brake cooling? Ground effects pressure relief? Something else? Is it worth doing from other than a cosmetic concern? Just thinking out loud......

[Xusia]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
10368

I noticed that too. I think the lack of those vertical "tooth" things contributes to this as well. Ultimately, I don't care how long the hood appears. Just saying I agree with the observation.


While the suggested change DOES look sort of cool, the grill as drawn by FFR has no real issues either. How much real function would the secondary vents actually provide? Brake cooling? Ground effects pressure relief? Something else? Is it worth doing from other than a cosmetic concern? Just thinking out loud......

Vman's changes to the grill didn't add any vents that I am aware of. They are simply a reshaping of the lines and contours. Everything being discussed here is purely cosmetic, so there is no reason to make any changes from a functional standpoint.

[shim2]

Should do a quick no mods with soft top to get an idea how it will look if FFR sticks with the design they showed us.

[flynntuna]

I'm a big fan of the school of thought that form follows function. That said what ever Dave and his team come up with that meets the goals of high performance, easy to build, and low cost, while still being a good looking car, I think that meets my definition of HOF. If Vman7's changes improve on these goals, then I'm for it.

[Silvertop]

Should do a quick no mods with soft top to get an idea how it will look if FFR sticks with the design they showed us.

A good idea. Because FFR may very well do exactly that. I like some of the suggested cosmetic changes that Vman7 and others came up with (including alternate headlight configurations on another thread), but I suspect that the changes may make the body more difficult (and thus costlier) to manufacture. Just my 2 cents worth. particularly since it looks pretty good as is.........

[WonderDude]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
10368

I personally like the one on the bottom. More appealing to me for some reason.

[Vman7]

ok, first off to answer the "does the new front mod.s add any function" Yes, you can't see it from this view, but there are brake ducts, if you look real close on the outer curved edge of the opening you will see the shadow.

I try to add function when I design stuff the best I can.

I am working on a front view to show just what is going on with the front vent/openings mod.s.

As far as the front appearing longer, it's mostly because of the 3point perspective drawing, the car looks way longer and wider up front then in back, look at how the rear tire is smaller etc. Plus Jim's design always had a short rear section, which in my opinion looked out of balance. The rear section should be a little longer to balance it out, but that is a major change, and for now FFR needs to get out a first design, that and other changes can happen later as the 818 develops further.

Remember what people call 3/4 3D drawings (actually 3point perspective in this case) can be deceiving.

Hope this kind of makes sense.....lol

I try and finish up the front view pic, so people can get a better idea.

David

[Vman7]

Here is a pic showing a comparison of the vents. Also showing where brake ducts would be. Possible Driving/Fog Light locations, just a mock-up for now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10369&d=1340065952
10369

I hope this helps some, at least until I get a front view done.

David

[riptide motorsport]

They all lookk good....Steven

[Nelff]

I must say, the nose with 'vents A2B' with the fog lights in the grill only is the best front end rendition that I have seen of Jim's (+Vman) design. I didn't like Jim's design when it came out. When I found out that it was to be the body style, I decided to put up some shelves and stain the deck, I was done. I'm not thrilled that there is a longish nose but, this design is getting better. I'm really beginning to wonder if someone is going to get an 818 and use it to produce a nose and tail that could be grafted on without to much trouble... Still waiting to see the final product. I'm still hoping that the shape is going to be something that is current, but will not look dated in 5 years still making me smile every time I see it in the garage...

[bromikl]

I think we're going to learn to love it. Jim's design is a looker as it is. If we HAD to drive the best looking car, we'd be trading in our wheels every time a newer model drives by.

Don't give up yet, Nelf. There are two more versions to come!

[Vman7]

I think we're going to learn to love it. Jim's design is a looker as it is. If we HAD to drive the best looking car, we'd be trading in our wheels every time a newer model drives by.

Don't give up yet, Nelf. There are two more versions to come!

Once the final first body design comes out, I think most will be happy with it. Just like the FFR cars in time the 818 will develop into something really sweet!

[Vman7]

Here is another way at looking at the basic mod.s from the cad drawing that was up on FFR website.

Note: Vent mod.s A2/A2B both have brake ducts.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10372&d=1340083251
10372

[Nelff]

I totally agree with the idea of building something that you want and then keeping it. I have a '96 Cobra that's for dang sure not stock and an E46 M3 that I'm not parting with. Build it like you want it and drive it...

[Vman7]

Can't believe I am actually working on this, now I know I am bored.......lol

Get ready for a Coupe side view based on the current 818 design using the red cad drawing on FFR website.

I'll do a new thread for it.

David

[WonderDude]

Ok now! ...No laughing!!!
10385

Just some ideas I picked up while looking at other mid engine roadsters. ;-)