Final questions before purchasing MK4 Kit

[hrosenthal]

I think I've done all my homework and have a pretty good feeling that I am up to the task of assembling the MK4 Roadster.

I figured out workspace, which was the biggest hurdle.

I've read through the manual, and it seems to be clear.

I have a few lingering questions:

1. I am planning to order the complete kit and since this is my first project, I'd like to build the kit without any special modifications. What would be the easiest engine and transmission (standard preferred) to install.

2. Is there anything I need besides the complete kit, engine, and transmission.

3. I'm under the assumption that if I purchase the complete kit, I don't need a donor car. Is that correct?

4. I am planning on having the body painted by a shop. Should I plan on sending the body to the shop separately, or should I assemble the complete car before painting (I am planning to get the precut body). Logic tells me that I need to complete the car first to make final fitting adjustments, but I'm double checking?

5. Can the body be suspended from my garage ceiling before it's ready for installation, or it it too heavy?

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions, but this is all I can think of right now.

Thanks

[edwardb]

Good questions. I had similar ones a little over two years ago. I'll take a shot at answers. Most aren't absolute though. Many different opinions and experiences.

1. Really any of the SBF (302-351), BBF, or mod motors are pretty established and will fit without modification. Just decide what you're planning to use before ordering. One of the SBF's may be the easiest because they fit with quite a bit of room to spare. BBF and mod motors are a little more of a squeeze, but they fit. Very conservative answer? SBF 351 in relatively stock form has lots of go for this car, and has lots of upside. Another really good choice, in my opinion, is the Ford Racing 340 HP crate motor. T5Z is a low risk transmission option and will drop right in. But lots of choices and opinions for both. Both choices really depend on how you plan to use the car and budget (of course).

2. Factory Five lists the additional parts required. Rear axle, wheels, tires come to mind.

3. Mainly yes, but you still could use a donor for the engine, trans, rear axle, etc.

4. Fit the body to the chassis before paint. Precut is OK, but don't be under the impression the locations will be perfect. In fact, assume they won't be.

5. Absolutely yes. The body weights about 150 - 180 lbs, as I recall. Easy to lift with two people. Just need to put a brace in the cockpit between the back wall and the instrument panel area so it doesn't flex too much. FFR describes in the instructions. Many of us suspended from the ceiling during the build. I used ropes padded with foam pipe insulation through the front headlight holes and hood opening, and the rear light holes and trunk opening, total of four. Or you can build a body buck that holds the body above the chassis so both fit in one bay. I did both.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Body%20Buck/th_IMG_0922.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Body%20Buck/?action=view&current=IMG_0922.jpg)

[Martin]

Hi,

1) easiest engine/transmission is a matter of opinion. A 302 with a T5 is probably the most tried and tested drive train. A 351 will fit just as well. Big Blocks FILL the entire thing up. The Coyote engine is still a work in progress but has been done.
2) Nothing you need, but there will be things you might want. Try BreezeAutomotive.com for ideas of a bunch of stuff to make the build go easier and faster. Hand around on this forum and you'll find dozens of ways to spend your money on things you "need".
3) Try and get everything done before you send it to the shop. Fitting and alignment change as the car settles. Plus, your body will need time to cure and sort itself out.
4) You can hang it from the ceiling. Do a search for the body buck plans, and you'll come across other plans for supports to hang it from the ceiling as well. I wouldn't just throw a rope under it and hoist it up though.

Martin





I think I've done all my homework and have a pretty good feeling that I am up to the task of assembling the MK4 Roadster.

I figured out workspace, which was the biggest hurdle.

I've read through the manual, and it seems to be clear.

I have a few lingering questions:

1. I am planning to order the complete kit and since this is my first project, I'd like to build the kit without any special modifications. What would be the easiest engine and transmission (standard preferred) to install.

2. Is there anything I need besides the complete kit, engine, and transmission.

3. I'm under the assumption that if I purchase the complete kit, I don't need a donor car. Is that correct?

4. I am planning on having the body painted by a shop. Should I plan on sending the body to the shop separately, or should I assemble the complete car before painting (I am planning to get the precut body). Logic tells me that I need to complete the car first to make final fitting adjustments, but I'm double checking?

5. Can the body be suspended from my garage ceiling before it's ready for installation, or it it too heavy?

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions, but this is all I can think of right now.

Thanks

[ajt725]

I might be able to help you a little. For question number two you will need tires, wheels, rear end, my state required wipers, I added the heater/defrost as well. Some of the extras not necessarily needed that I have added are FastFreddies pwr steering, Cobra Earls vent kit, FatMat on all aluminum in trunk/cockpit, powder coat all engine bay aluminum, courtesy led's in trunk and cockpit, kick azz doubledin gps/stereo with Kicker speakers and Kicker amp. Bunch of other stuff but too much to list. Basically what I am saying is its like building a new house. There is a bunch of stuff I didn't think of right away but I want the car done right. I know the UPS and Fedex guys well now. As soon as the UPS guys shows up my 3 big dogs jump into his truck now:D

[hrosenthal]

Thanks for all the great feedback. All very helpful. I hope to get order in by mid June.

[Rootbeer Roadster]

Post where you are located and ask if someone would show you their car. Lots of questions come up when your'e taking a ride.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Post where you are located and ask if someone would show you their car. Lots of questions come up when your'e taking a ride. Jeff

X2. Great advice, if you haven't already. Also, again depending on location, get to one of the big shows, like the FF open house, London, Ohio show June 21-24 etc. See as many as you can, most owners are more than willing to talk, answer questions, etc.

[AZPete]

I just got an email from Factory Five saying they have extended their SALE for anybody who orders by May 31st! Jump on it now! The 31st is only next Thursday. Go to the FFR web site to find the deal.
Pete

and welcome to the madness. You'll love it.

[CraigS]

The quickest easiest engine trans would be a 302 w/ a T-5. I would normally recommend a 351 as the potential is so much greater, but unless you do a mild one (not a bad idea) you would need another trans. For just a little more money, a 351 and one of levy's uprated T-5s would be a great combination.

[hrosenthal]

Edwardb - thanks for the info. Did you have to cut the brace yourself, or was it supplied by FFR. I purchased the assembly manual ahead to review, but didn't see any mention of putting the body on a brace. Do templates exist for this so that I can have it ready before my car arrives? Thanks.




Good questions. I had similar ones a little over two years ago. I'll take a shot at answers. Most aren't absolute though. Many different opinions and experiences.

1. Really any of the SBF (302-351), BBF, or mod motors are pretty established and will fit without modification. Just decide what you're planning to use before ordering. One of the SBF's may be the easiest because they fit with quite a bit of room to spare. BBF and mod motors are a little more of a squeeze, but they fit. Very conservative answer? SBF 351 in relatively stock form has lots of go for this car, and has lots of upside. Another really good choice, in my opinion, is the Ford Racing 340 HP crate motor. T5Z is a low risk transmission option and will drop right in. But lots of choices and opinions for both. Both choices really depend on how you plan to use the car and budget (of course).

2. Factory Five lists the additional parts required. Rear axle, wheels, tires come to mind.

3. Mainly yes, but you still could use a donor for the engine, trans, rear axle, etc.

4. Fit the body to the chassis before paint. Precut is OK, but don't be under the impression the locations will be perfect. In fact, assume they won't be.

5. Absolutely yes. The body weights about 150 - 180 lbs, as I recall. Easy to lift with two people. Just need to put a brace in the cockpit between the back wall and the instrument panel area so it doesn't flex too much. FFR describes in the instructions. Many of us suspended from the ceiling during the build. I used ropes padded with foam pipe insulation through the front headlight holes and hood opening, and the rear light holes and trunk opening, total of four. Or you can build a body buck that holds the body above the chassis so both fit in one bay. I did both.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Body%20Buck/th_IMG_0922.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Body%20Buck/?action=view¤t=IMG_0922.jpg)

[edwardb]

Edwardb - thanks for the info. Did you have to cut the brace yourself, or was it supplied by FFR. I purchased the assembly manual ahead to review, but didn't see any mention of putting the body on a brace. Do templates exist for this so that I can have it ready before my car arrives? Thanks.

No, the brace is not included and is nothing elaborate. Just a wood 2x4 set between the rear and front opening of the cockpit, e.g. in the area between the seats and the center of the instrument panel. Length for a Mk3 was 35-36 inches. Assume a Mk4 would be similar. Some guys just duct tape it in place. Others get a little more elaborate and put carpet padding or whatever on it. The idea is so that when you lift the front and back of the body, it limits the flex in the middle specifically at the door sills. Some guys get away without, but most recommend that you use it. Maybe with the wrap around sills on the Mk4 it's less critical. But I would still use it. Really don't want to be breaking the body.

[hrosenthal]

edwardb -Thanks again for all of your help. I looked at your pictures again and see the 2x4 across the cockpit. But is the top half of your body buck has plywood cutouts. What purpose do they serve?


No, the brace is not included and is nothing elaborate. Just a wood 2x4 set between the rear and front opening of the cockpit, e.g. in the area between the seats and the center of the instrument panel. Length for a Mk3 was 35-36 inches. Assume a Mk4 would be similar. Some guys just duct tape it in place. Others get a little more elaborate and put carpet padding or whatever on it. The idea is so that when you lift the front and back of the body, it limits the flex in the middle specifically at the door sills. Some guys get away without, but most recommend that you use it. Maybe with the wrap around sills on the Mk4 it's less critical. But I would still use it. Really don't want to be breaking the body.

[Olli]

Before you decide on an engine you should do some research on what your state requirements are. That research could be a lot easier if you can get together with fellow FFR owners in your state. There is a large group of FFR owners in NY State, you need to reach out and talk to some of them.

Just as an example, I'm in NJ, the State bases emissions on the year of the block. That precludes the use of a new crate engine (302/351) and most certainly the use of an aftermarket block. It is best to find out such things prior to making any major purchases. The use of a late model 4.6 or Coyote would require full emissions including cats. Again, I'm talking about NJ.

I can't stress enough the need to research your own state requirements.

Olli

[azbruin]

I'm in the middle of my build so I can't answer most of your questions. I suspended my body from the ceiling. I built a body buck that supports the body curves on eitherside of the cockpit. The specs are in the appendix of the manual. It is really ligt. I used two bike hoist pulley systems. It is holding fine after 3 months.

The complete kit is supposed to include everything but - engine, tranny, Rear End, tires, and wheels. I'm doing a base kit with a donor but still seem to hit Autozone or Napa three times a week.

Haven't got there yet but most people fit the body and drive for awhile before paint.

[azbruin]

Just lifted the body and it weighs less than 50lbs. The body buck about doubles the total weight. I think the logic on the plywood following the body curves is to prevent deformation while it is up. The weight is distributed across the car in two places.

[edwardb]

edwardb -Thanks again for all of your help. I looked at your pictures again and see the 2x4 across the cockpit. But is the top half of your body buck has plywood cutouts. What purpose do they serve?

I'm not 100% sure what cutouts you're referring to. This is the body buck I made: http://www.ffcars.com/FAQ/bodybuck02.html The body curves might be slightly different for a Mk4, but the rest should still be fine.

[AZPete]

You asked if the body can be suspended from the ceiling. Sure. This photo was taken as I was lowering it down to install on the go-kart but it was out of the way "up there" before. See the 2x4 brace on the cockpit. I made block-and-tackles with pulleys & rope from Ace Hdwe so I could easily lower/raise by myself but just plain pulleys would work fine.
Did you jump on the FFR sale ending 5/31?
Pete

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/bodymount2-1.jpg

[hrosenthal]

AZPete - Did you run into any warping problems by using only a brace and not a body buck? I am going to FFR next week to see factory and place my order. They told me they'd honor the sale since I called to schedule before the deadline. I'm looking forward to the project, but don't want to screw up the body during storage.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...don't want to screw up the body during storage.

Short of doing something to fracture or crush it you'll have a hard time screwing it up. Here is how they're stored at the manufacturer:

https://factoryfiveparts.com/image.php?type=P&id=16676

Jeff

[FFinisher]

Short of doing something to fracture or crush it you'll have a hard time screwing it up. Here is how they're stored at the manufacturer:

https://factoryfiveparts.com/image.php?type=P&id=16676

Jeff

I had an ice dam come off my roof from about 30 feet up that was the size of a small pickup that broke the nose on a new MKIV body I had stored outside.

I ended up getting a new body from FFR. ( NO it was not free)

Buts as Jeff and others have said, it would be pretty tough to hurt the body otherwise. My first one I was nervous as a cat. If you saw how they handle them when they are moved around at the factory your worries would diminish rapidly.

[trublue]

I went the donor route with my MK3 and a 2000 Mustang GT. It answers the majority of your questions. You also get the benefits of engine, drivetrain and a fully integrated and tested electromechanical sysyem with the added benefit of disassembly experience of the donor. I learned a lot about how it all fits together. This knowledge and the Mott College build school were invaluable to me during my build process.
Have a great time, it is like nothing else.
Art

[Avalanche325]

Before you order:

Get the major decisions figured out. Engine type, base or complete, and rear suspension.

Also, have a good look at options. There are a couple that are cheaper to do at kit order time, like stainless side pipes, chrome roll bar, etc.