How hard is the Cobra to build? Honest Answer!

[Assassin22]

I am sure for those of you who have spent time on here you have heard this a hundred times. But how hard is it to build the kit cars? I have a lot of mechanic experience, and worked as a mechanic in an auto shop all through High School and college but that was 8-10 years ago. However, I am sure my skills are still there or at least I hope so. Anyways, how much sheet metal cutting is there, or welding, and or wiring. When it comes to wrenching I can get after it. But when you are talking about wiring or sheet metal cutting I am like Martha Stewart standing it a batters box facing Nolan Ryan. Is this something that I could do with ease, would like to make it a father son project. I am sure there is a ton of experience out there that can answer these questions. I just don't want to spend 20K for a bunch of boxes to sit in my garage for the next 50 years. Thanks for the help!

BV

[rich grsc]

No welding or sheet metal cutting required. Wiring isnt that bad as you can buy a harness that is close to just plug it in.

[Assassin22]

Thanks for answering that dosent sound that bad. Do all the engine mounts line up for a 351W or 347 stroker? Also does the kit come with all the wiring or is that something that you have to buy along with the rear end, motor, and trans. Speaking of trans any that you recommend?

[Ray]

I built mine with just some basic mechanical skills. I had done oil changes, simple tune-ups and replacement of brake pads before buying our car. When I needed help, I posted my questions and got almost instant answers. Held a couple of "build-parties" (which are a lot of fun) and learned a bunch from those.

Buy the car and jump in. You might want to lets us know what part of the world you are in so those that are close can stop by.

Good luck, have fun and welcome.

Ray

[Ray]

Thanks for answering that dosent sound that bad. Do all the engine mounts line up for a 351W or 347 stroker? Also does the kit come with all the wiring or is that something that you have to buy along with the rear end, motor, and trans. Speaking of trans any that you recommend?

Here is what you get with the complete kit option: http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/mk4-roadster/complete-kit/what-you-get/

Here is what you need to supply: http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/mk4-roadster/complete-kit/what-you-need/ (plus your sweat equity.)

Ray

PS: When you place your order, you tell them what engine you'll be using. I've seen 302's, 351's, 429's, SBC's and even a Viper V-10.

[Gumball]

I agree with the above - from what you describe, you have the basic skills needed to assemble one of these cars. With this forum and the other (ffcars.com), you will have the community of friends to help you through any of the steps that you find difficult. The beauty of the FFR kits is that you can build it as "basic" (meaning as close to "by the book") as you'd like or as complex as your skills and wallet allow. I have a few friends that built Roadsters in the past few years (I've met them all through my earlier investigation and later build process) and their cars run the gamut based on their mechanical expertise, but all turned out very nice.

If you don't go radical on the modifications and deviations from the basic build (at least not outside your comfort zone), most of what you'll encounter will be some finish work to make the kit parts fit better together; i.e., grinding down the occasional weld to make an aluminum panel fit better or trimming that panel so that it lines-up with an adjoining panel.

As for wiring, if you go with a donor engine (or even a non-donor crate motor that comes with a computer), you'll have to possibly deal with some work to determine what wiring is needed (stripping out unnecessary wires is called a "wire diet"). If you run a carb, you can buy a pre-made harness with the kit, but it's still not a plug-and-play deal. That said, there are many people here who never did any wiring, let alone an entire car, who managed to get through the process with a little help from the forums.

If you haven't done so already, check out the regional forums here and at ffcars.com to see if there are any people in your area who could show you their cars; preferably both finished and in-progress - that more than anything else will sell you on the idea of building one as a father-son project.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your decision.

[Assassin22]

Thanks for all the good info Ray the build parties sounds like a great idea. It also sounds like there are a lot of people that are willing to help out and assist which is great. I am really looking forward to doing this. Anyone can buy a car but there is a lot more to be said when you make it yourself. How long did it take you to build yours?

[Assassin22]

Gumball, great idea with finding someone close by so I can see their car that could answer a lot of questions. What would you or anyone else say has been the most challenging part of the build. I am sure there a moments where you have sat in your garage and said to yourself. I have no idea where this bolt goes but I know its important...haha! BTW I am contemplating two engines either a 347 stroker from engine factory or a 396 from yeoman racing engines. I know the 396 is a chev block but they are wicked fast on a dirt race track!

[Jacob McCrea]

I don't have much to add in light of what's said above, all of which I agree with. But for what it's worth, I found that going through the FFR order form, line item by line item, as if I was about to order, was helpful for getting a grasp of what I was getting and what I would need to get on my own. Tearing down a donor car can be a good introduction to the requisite mechanical work, but it sounds like you may be beyond that point. Using a donor car can be impractical for a long litany of reasons, but if you find a good one for a good price, have the space, can recycle the shell without too much trouble, etc., it can be a pretty good education, and a great way to stay within a budget.

As for welding and custom sheet metal work, you will see a lot of that on this forum, but don't be put off - I think it's mostly confined to folks who want something very specific from their cars - a 'cage that will pass tech, bigger footboxes, some custom interior modification, etc. Some folks simply have to "color outside the lines." That is frankly part of what makes these projects great - they allow a lot of customizing and creativity at comparatively modest prices and levels of difficulty. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

[RMB]

It's like putting a giant model together, but uses bolts and rivets instead of glue. Seriously, it's easy. ;)

Rob

[edwardb]

Gumball, great idea with finding someone close by so I can see their car that could answer a lot of questions. What would you or anyone else say has been the most challenging part of the build. I am sure there a moments where you have sat in your garage and said to yourself. I have no idea where this bolt goes but I know its important...haha! BTW I am contemplating two engines either a 347 stroker from engine factory or a 396 from yeoman racing engines. I know the 396 is a chev block but they are wicked fast on a dirt race track!

Just finished mine after a two year non-donor new build. My background is similar to yours, e.g. been around cars, done some minor repairs, and oil / brake / tuning maintenance. I'm pretty mechanically inclined and love to learn. But this was a first for me. I had a blast, and would love to do it again. But there were definitely some challenges along the way, and this forum and FFCars were very helpful. Now that it's done, the car is great fun to drive. Just turned 600 miles this weekend. I would say four things in response to your question:

1. If you are unsure of your skills, go with a complete kit and build it by the book. Not everyone will agree with that, instead will say buy the basic kit and select your own parts because you can save money or upgrade or both. True but it takes some level of experience, and there is a lot of variability of what combinations work and what do not.

2. Avoid big modifications. Hanging around this forum and FFCars will expose you to many modifications and "upgrades." Many are cosmetic and/or not that difficult. But many are just the opposite. Just be careful to use good judgment. Have a build plan and stick with it.

3. Your comment about "396 is a chev block" is a big time danger sign. I'm sure can be done (I guess) but you are exactly going down a path that is different than your original question, e.g. I'm a beginner and can I do this. I have to believe that would require major modifications (and won't even get into the argument about putting Chevy products in a Ford replica...). Stick with proven parts combinations. Related to this, what is "wicked fast" in another car goes to another level in the Roadster. It's small and weighs a little over 2000 lbs. Anywhere in the 325-350-375 horsepower is very strong in this car.

4. Factory Five makes an extremely well engineered product. But there's lots of work and sometimes creativity to make it all work. There will be surprises, and there will be calls to FF asking for help, things that don't fit exactly right the first time, do-overs, etc. Expect it. It's a kit, but in the end each car is a custom one of a kind build.

What were the most challenging aspects? Probably the wiring and getting everything electrical to work exactly the way I wanted, and the body work. If you are feeling wiring challenged, the complete kit has a new harness and is relatively straightforward. But honestly you still may want to get some help with this aspect if you don't understand basic electrical wiring concepts. Body work is time consuming and pretty physical work. Although the new Mk4 is way better in this regard. Professionals are out there who can completely take care of this, but it's not cheap. The cost of body and paint was the biggest surprise for my budget, and I actually got off cheaper than many.

Cannot stress strongly enough how important it is to see one, ride in one, and even drive one if you are allowed. But many, including me, don't let others drive their Roadsters. But happy to give rides and talk shop as long as you want.

[Assassin22]

Edward I agree with the 396 I could see where a dirt modified motor could be a little strong for this car. Have you heard any good or bad things about engine factory motors. They seem well priced and documented plus they are dyno'ed and turn key. Their 302 has 350hp and the 351W has 400hp, if I do this I would really lean toward the 351 unless someone could convince me otherwise.

[edwardb]

Edward I agree with the 396 I could see where a dirt modified motor could be a little strong for this car. Have you heard any good or bad things about engine factory motors. They seem well priced and documented plus they are dyno'ed and turn key. Their 302 has 350hp and the 351W has 400hp, if I do this I would really lean toward the 351 unless someone could convince me otherwise.

My comment about the 396 wasn't mainly related to it being a dirt modified motor so much as it's not a standard build item for this kit, and would require modifications (e.g. motor mounts and probably more) and standard items (e.g. headers for starters) would no longer fit. That consideration is in complete contradiction to your original question about build difficulty. But yes, you don't need to go overboard with power either.

Lots of guys have used Engine Factory. I think they generally have a good reputation. But there are lots of others too. Mike Forte, for example, is very familiar with these cars and can give you a complete turn-key package of engine, bell housing, clutch, trans, etc. Many choices out there.

I went with a 302, and I'm very happy with it. But it's pretty modified and well above average power for a 302. I will only ever drive it on the street. It's scary fast, and I haven't pushed it hard. Having said that, the 351 is a good choice. Still small block so fits in relatively easily, makes good power with very few mods, and has a bunch of upside if you get into heaver mods. Much more than a 302. Either would be a good choice, in my opinion.

[Assassin22]

All good info, I appreciate you taking the time to pass on some information. This is something that I have always wanted to do. There is so much more satisfaction when you do something yourself and a lot more to be said about it. I am sure that there will be challenges but I still want to do it. I saw the pics of your roadster it looks really good. I hope it turns out once I start. I am in the military and deploying soon but I want to have one waiting in my garage when I get home so I can get started. Cant Wait! Also, the support and responses from people in these forums is spot on. The roadster community itself makes me want to do this, all good people! Thanks for all the advice and comments, I am sure I will have a bunch more in the future.

[Gumball]

Something that none of us touched on yet and certainly something that sets FFR apart from other companies is their partnership with Mott Community College in Michigan on a program called the build school. You may want to look into it. I didn't do it because of my comfort level before starting my build through exposure to other ground-up Ford restorations and watching friends build their own FFRs, but from what I've seen and heard, it's a great way to get your feet wet in the process. I think FFR will even credit most of the tuition cost back to you against a kit purchase. If I remember correctly, the build school is three or four days and you will build a complete car during that time with a small group of people. Do some on-line research on that and even contact FFR for details - you may find it a valuable investment to make sure you have the skills, you'll likely learn some tips and shortcuts to get you through the difficult parts, and you'll certainly make valuable contacts in the builder community for future reference.

Finally, lots of active and former military here, at ffcars.com, and in FFR - the company truly seems to support our troops. Thank you so much for your service and sacrifice - keep your head down and stay safe!

[skullandbones]

Hi BV,
I think your concerns about metal work are genuine. I can tell you that not much is needed as mentioned above. However, I've found that working alum. is different than in my other hot rod experiences. I have asked and gotten back many answers about that aspect of the project. Once you have played with it a little, it really is fun (just different). I choose to do a couple of mods that involved welding and alum (driver's crash bar and driver foot box) to gain more room in my MKIII. However, you won't have to do those because FFR has done it for you in the MKIV. I believe the car is easier to build now and the instruction (digital) are better than ever and they continue to update. Of course, there is also the forum which is a wealth of knowledge. Wiring is a pain and most will agree. However, there are kits that will make it a lot easier. But in the long run, it's still a big box of wires. Before my first startup, I had a wiring issue with my electric rad fans. I found the problem in a brand new plug in the wiring harness after tracing the problem point to point. That was pretty unexpected. So if you are a good trouble shooter, that is a good tool to have in your box.

Engine work is my favorite. I can tell you, this is the easiest car I have ever worked on for engine install if you have a 302. The other thing about the 302 is how cool an engine it is. It has a roller cam from the factory. I added alum flywheel and alum roller rocker arms and you should hear that thing wind up. If you want more power, there is no replacement for displacement so you could go with a 351 or more. Personally, I think that would be overkill with this car. The only complaint I have is that many things I was familiar with (working on Chevys) was lost. How confusing is it when the distributor moves from back to front, changes rotation, they move #1 from left to right bank, change the rotation of the water pump. The list goes on and on. There must be a rule that Ford and Chevy have to do it differently.

I hope you decide to get a kit and build with your son. You will never regret it! Good luck, WEK.

[Gale K]

If you don't go radical on the modifications and deviations from the basic build (at least not outside your comfort zone), most of what you'll encounter will be some finish work to make the kit parts fit better together; i.e., grinding down the occasional weld to make an aluminum panel fit better or trimming that panel so that it lines-up with an adjoining panel.

This kit is easy to build (IMHO). What has cost me time is mods. I added a deep trunk box, A/C and heat, power brakes, power steering, had anodizing done to all the aluminum panels, seat tracks to both sides, changed seats 3 times...etc, etc, etc. Doing the extra mods wasn't hard, it just adds to the total time to do it.

If you've done wrenching in the past, the kit goes together easily. Welding, bending sheet metal, etc. etc. as all have said may or may not need to be done, depending on your mods. And, there are enough folks around that will lend a hand with all of it that I would not consider any of it a stumbling block.

[Assassin22]

It sounds like the mods are the biggest hiccup if any which is a good thing. I think the only mod I would consider would be to add a stereo and a couple of speakers which shouldn't be all that hard. I was also wondering about the body work before going to paint. Is there a lot that needs to be done with the new kits or are they pretty well seamless. I would rather pay someone to do all of that then to do it myself. Does anyone know what the cost is for paint and body work if I have someone else do it. I want everything rounded out and a gel coat applied before going to paint, I am also assuming that you can send the body out for paint while you are still building the car? I was also looking on the site and can you get chrome pipes or do they come only in black or the unpolished finish? I am estimating total cost to build would be under 35K.....6K for motor, 2K for trans, 1K for rear-end, 2K rims and tires, 4K for paint and body???? Or am I way off on that number?

[Assassin22]

Oh and here is a stupid questions...what is a doner

[Gumball]

Bodywork can run from huge money for a showcar finish to around your estimate for a basic paint. You can save some money on bodywork by doing some of it yourself - knocking down the mold seams that are present and finishing off the cut-out openings for things like headlights, hoodscoop, side vents, doors, hood, and trunk. The body comes with a gelcoat finish - that's something that's sprayed into the mold before they lay-up the fiberglass. The seam ridges that will be present on the body are left behind by the point where the multiple parts of the mold are bolted together before the body is made - some have the mistaken impression that the bodies are made in pieces, then glued together - not true; they're one-piece (except for hood, doors, and trunk lid).

A donor is something unique to FFR - their kits are designed to use parts off an existing platform; i.e., '87 - '04 Mustang if building a Roadster or Coupe or a C5 Corvette in the case of the GTM. Not sure if they follow the donor plan for the Hot Rod, though. Some builders use an incredible amount of parts from a donor, others go the total non-donor route by purchasing all new parts (still, those parts are designed to fit the donor car - i.e., if you want to buy a new rear end assembly, you just need to tell the supplier that you need one for a Fox bodied Mustang), and others do sort of a "limited donor" build - meaning some of the basics come from the donor, such as engine (usually a core used for a full rebuild), trans, front spindles, brake components, rear end, fuel system, wiring harness and computer (if using injection system), etc...

In addition to checking out local builds, you may want to call FFR and talk to one of their tech guys - they're great at giving advice to help you plan a future build as they've seen just about every possible combination and can make recommendations based on your abilities and total cost goals.

[cmsu]

the toughest part of the actual build is having to walk by the kit in the garage cause you have family functions to attend, a donor is a 87-93 Mustang that you will cannibalize for all the parts you need to complete the car so you don't have to purchase each part needed separately, you can skip the donor by purchasing the complete kit then just basically get/add your own drivetrain

[DARKPT]

x2 what cmsu said. The time commitment is the hardest part. If you don't put the time in, you won't get finished. My 15 year old and I built a Type 65 Coupe in 18 months (including doing the bodywork and paint), but it was our only hobby and we worked steadily on it. Even when you're not working on it, you're researching, sourcing small bits, and resisting the temptation to change your build plan.

Dan

[AZPete]

22, a donor is a Mustang that you can pick parts from - often a wrecked Mustang. Now, many roadsters are built without any donor parts since Factory Five offers a "complete kit" that includes more parts. Regarding body finishing, I had the same thoughts you have and had no experience with sanding/filling/painting/wet sanding/polishing so I had a pro do it. He said if I did part of the prep work . . . it would cost MORE, because I'd screw it up. I paid $6,200 for a Mk3 but the Mk4 may be less because it needs less prep.

You've got the knowledge to build a great roadster and won't have to weld or shape panels (I didn't). When I was puzzled I got help from the forum guys. Plus, it will be the best father/son experience ever! Do it.
Pete

[riptide motorsport]

Not hard ...you can do it easily.

[dallas_]

What's the old saying: "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

Same with building these cars. You can do every single step. It's just that there are quite a few steps along the way.

For example, we had no intention of doing our own body work and paint, but ended up doing just that. Even made a few modifications while we were doing it, which ended up being really fun.

I think the main thing for us (my 2 sons and I) was that we didn't set a completion date. Just enjoyed each step along the way and didn't rush anything. We're only a few weeks away from completion and can tell you it's the most enjoyable thing I've done in years.

Read some of the build threads or blogs, especially Greg M and Nu Blue's. They have enough detail that you can see what you are really gettin into.

John

[Assassin22]

Gents, thanks for all taking the time to share your information and help in my decision. I am going to do this and I think it will be a great father son project. My last question.

Who are yall going through for engine/trans combinations I would like to do this with a turn key and narrowed it down to a 331/347 stroker. I have called the engine factory and they are at 14K for engine and trans and also called proformance unlimited who are around 11K. Are there better companies out there that I am just not seeing. Here is what I am looking for:

331/347 stroker
390-415hp
5 speed man trans
bell housing / clutch
turn key

ANY ADVICE???

BTW the support you guys give on these forums is second to none very good bunch of people. I can honestly say that the advice passed in one day and the quick responses is what sold me on the decision to do this. I feel comfortable knowing that I am not flying solo on this.

[MK4]

call the forum vendor on this forum or on the other one they will help you get it done on a reasonable price.


MK4

[Avalanche325]

If you have the ability......
You can get a 302 either from a donor or from a salvage yard, a stroker kit from Summit and some local machine shop work, and do it cheaper.
Some of the crate engine prices out there seem pretty high to me. Like 14K, yikes. Most crate engines are blocks from the salvage yard to start with.

Of course, if you looking for turnkey, that is a different story.

[Gumball]

Agree with Avalanche here - I built the 347 I'm using in my Roadster myself, but under the watchful eye of a friend who does vintage race prep for a living as this was my first engine ever. Very surprised at how easy it really was, though. I started with a decent engine out of a '94 SVT Mustang Cobra, kept only the block casting, head castings, and original roller rockers - everything else inside and out is new, including the conversion to a carb. I'm into the engine for well under $5k and $1,700 of that was for machine work and balancing. The complete rotating assembly (crank, rods, pistons, rings, & bearings) from Scat was just over $1k - way less expensive than I budgeted for. We didn't put it on a dyno yet, but the expectation is around low to mid 400s for both HP and TQ.

[QSL]

Let me put it this way. Basically i sit on the sofa in the garage and watch tv while my 16yr old daughter, 10yr old son and my wife build it. NO they are not mechanics. I just point to what what parts they need because they dont know what they look like. Really, its that easy, the directions my 10yr old understands.

We purchased the complete kit.

8731

[Assassin22]

QSL,

That is funny good laugh, I could just send the kit to your house bring my wife with a set of tools and some beer.....we would be good to go..haha! Im all in and going to do this need to find a motor/trans combo. Who did you go through to buy your motor? I am really leaning towards Proformance Unlimited for a full turn key 347/trans/starter/clutch/bell housing for 11K that seems like a decent offer to me with no hassles and free shipping!

[QSL]

hopefully she wont see this because she would take you up on that!

I used ampperformance.com mainly because they were close. I purchased the 427 ford racing crate engine and tko600 setup from them. I purchased my intake setup from jim inglese. You can spend more or less on the engine. Originally we planned on spending about $4500 on the engine, but ended up spending that just on the intake.... :) good luck and go for it, you will not regret it. Best advise i can give is whatever you decide to build, make sure you have enough cash to cover the bulk of the cost. That way you dont get to a point where you need to spend 2k and keep putting it off for a "better" day. That was my main criteria.

[jakester888]

You can do this with basic hand tools and a few rented "special" tools (pullers & the like). Take it from a newbie like me who's about 1/3 into this. The hardest part is the donor tear down. If I could do it again, I would buy the complete kit rather than the base kit. Reason : Base kit with a donor means you spend a good portion of your time tearing down an old mustang and then when you're done you've got tons of parts to clean up & paint... some of which you will have to replace anyway. Save yourself 6 months labor & buy the complete kit.

[mrmustang]

Gents, thanks for all taking the time to share your information and help in my decision. I am going to do this and I think it will be a great father son project. My last question.

Who are yall going through for engine/trans combinations I would like to do this with a turn key and narrowed it down to a 331/347 stroker. I have called the engine factory and they are at 14K for engine and trans and also called proformance unlimited who are around 11K. Are there better companies out there that I am just not seeing. Here is what I am looking for:

331/347 stroker
390-415hp
5 speed man trans
bell housing / clutch
turn key

ANY ADVICE???

BTW the support you guys give on these forums is second to none very good bunch of people. I can honestly say that the advice passed in one day and the quick responses is what sold me on the decision to do this. I feel comfortable knowing that I am not flying solo on this.


I've held my tongue so far, but to answer your initial question, yes, you can build it.

Now, my question in return, why do you need so much HP? The car weighs in at half that of a late model Mustang (2,200lbs compared to 4,800lbs).

A simple Ford crate engine, 340hp is enough to get the car 0-60 in 5 seconds and cost less than $4,000.

My further advice, don't get caught up in the HP wars of say a modern day Mustang GT and Corvette......


Bill S.

[rick8928]

One cost saving alternative (compared to new crate motor/trans) not yet mentioned is to buy a "pallet of parts" from one of the vendors who offer this. This pallet consists of all the donor parts you need, salvaged from a car. I went with AMP performance, who provided the complete set of parts from an '04 Mach 1 Mustang, which had 54K miles on it prior to being crashed. Have just gotten on the road and have accumulated about 100 miles and it works. Note, being a form follows function type, went with a 4.6l DOHC 32v EFI all aluminum modular motor. If you go with EFI and donor, suggest you send your wire harness to Art Cuesta at WireDiet.com. He will do the diet and eliminate all the extraneous circuits, adding in a new EZ wire harness, and return to you a harness ready to have connectors added, at which point it is essentially plug and play.

Another cost saving alternative is to find a vocational high school that does bodywork and paint. I'm having mine done for a grand total of less than $2K.

All in, my car should be completed for a grand total of $30K, plus another $1K of accumulated tools (engine stand, engine hoist, floor jack, angle grinder, jack stands, new rolling toolbox [optional], supplemental hand tools)

[mcwho]

I agree with mrmustang and many others, don't get too caught up in the hp wars.

that being said, I went to the build school back in july 2010, I was underwhelmed, nothing too tough, I went with the complete kit just cause I didn't want to go the the hunting for parts at a bone yard, and I wanted to have a car with all new parts.

so my build is this
MkIV
with IRS
ford Racing Crate 302 or boss
Tremec tko 500 midshift
ffr heater
hydralic clutch
power steering
power brake assist
firewall forward kit
battery box in trunk
ross turn signal kit
trunk box expander
cubby kit behind seats
glove box
stereo radio
halibrand 15" wheels
bfg radial TA tires

future
sway bar
approx 1/3 complete

[rich grsc]

I've held my tongue so far, but to answer your initial question, yes, you can build it.

Now, my question in return, why do you need so much HP? The car weighs in at half that of a late model Mustang (2,200lbs compared to 4,800lbs).

A simple Ford crate engine, 340hp is enough to get the car 0-60 in 5 seconds and cost less than $4,000.

My further advice, don't get caught up in the HP wars of say a modern day Mustang GT and Corvette......


Bill S.

2x on the hp issue. These cars can get you into a lot of trouble if you dont have experience with high hp cars. The light weight and short wheel base can get away from you real quick. I have a stock 5.0 and have a ball, as my comfort level goes up so will the hp.

[edwardb]

2x on the hp issue. These cars can get you into a lot of trouble if you dont have experience with high hp cars. The light weight and short wheel base can get away from you real quick. I have a stock 5.0 and have a ball, as my comfort level goes up so will the hp.

Exactly what I said in post #11 -- anywhere in the 325-350-375 horsepower is very strong in this car. Also why I suggested seeing one in person and either riding or driving. In the end, really depends on what you're going to do with the car. If it's only for street use, or occasional track or auto-x, you will not believe how lively the car is with that much power. I have about 375 (estimated) at the flywheel with my warmed up 306, and for street use if I want to stay remotely legal and safe, I can't use all the power. It's a bit scary when I really get into it, to be honest. I spent a lot of time and effort to get my engine overhauled, running well, etc. If I were to do it over (or my next build, if that chance ever comes) I will probably start with one of the Ford crate motors. Solid build, plenty of power, and a warranty.

[jlfernan]

What made it easy for me was buying the complete kit. I've seen people expend more time, energy and sometimes money sourcing out parts just to realize they don't fit or are broken. I also stuck to the manual with little to no modifications. Yoou can spend hours making mods that may have little impact on the final product. The new manual is a huge improvement over the old and does a great job guiding you along. I also went ta SB 302.340hp I bought complete from Mike Forte. I coul;d not be happier with engine. Power and reliability so far have been fantastic. Go to the school, it will teach you a lot and take the plunge. We are always here to help if you get stuck. And most important, HAVE FUN!


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2561/jorgec.jpg (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=111)

[Assassin22]

I talked with Mike Forte this evening. This is a class act A+ guy....and for me service and knowledge sells. Mike knows a ton and is extremely knowledgable on all things related to racing, engines, power, and anything else you can think of. He also convinced me that 350-360 hp is the way to go in the 302. Not that I didnt believe yall he was just able to get through my thick skull and prob arrogant head...haha! Anyways if I buy I am going through him especially with a price you cant beat, the man has exactly what I am looking for and talked as if he knew me for years, great service, I am sold! If my wife didnt come get me in the drive way sitting in my truck I would probably have talked shop for hours.

Anyways, thanks for all the comments and support you guys truly do know your stuff and all have convinced me to do this and now I PROMISE to be more opened minded:) Thanks for everything I look forward to all the advice and shop talk in the future.

Beau

[QSL]

Just make sure you build the car for you and what YOU want. I was steered a certain way on my wilwood brakes that now i wish i had done my way. I was also picked on a bit for putting 530HP in my car. But thats what i wanted and what it would take to be MY dream car. Dont lose your vision. :)

[CraigS]

I agree w/ everything said so far and especially w/ your choice of Forte as a supplier. Only change i'd make is go 351. Those extra cubes make any given HP level a milder tune. My 400 hp 351 from EF is just a nice stock rebuilt shortblock w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and heads w/ a very mild cam. The 351 is stronger internally so could be upgraded later more easily. I recommend a complete kit. There are some front suspension pieces that are included in that kit that are much better design than previously available and you will need to look for a lot less stuff. To spred out costs some you can easily drive the car in gelcoat for a season or two or three. The MkIV body has a better shape than before but also the quality is so much better. Get the car on the road and do the paint over the next winter.

[DANW]

Lot's of good discussion on this especially on engines. Any comments on a 351 vs the new 5.0 Coyote engine?

[edwardb]

By all accounts (including the recent TV special pitting the Mk4 with a Coyote against an original) the 5.0 Coyote is a great choice. Definitely something I would look at for my next build. But a little off topic for the OP. As I understand, mods and custom parts are required to get the Coyote into the Mk4 today. Exhaust headers being one. FFR is supposed to be developing an installation kit for the Coyote, but not available yet. Probably not the best choice for someone concerned about having the skill level for the kit in the first place.

[Gale K]

Lot's of good discussion on this especially on engines. Any comments on a 351 vs the new 5.0 Coyote engine?

I have done zero research on the following statement, so take it with a grain of salt... BUT (IMHO), I would say the 351 could be loads less expensive to git 'er dun. Many many many mods for the 351 motors, and lots of experience in the real world. Also, headers available, motors fit in the chassis well, etc. etc. etc.

If you need the latest and greatest, the Coyote would be it. If cost is a factor, and you don't mind the "old school" way of doing things, the 351 would be great.

[oldguy668]

I bought a MK II kit many moons ago. Prior to that, I had only basic automotive skills, developed mostly trying to keep my succession of "first cars" running long enough to go out on a date. Anyway, I did a simple, basic build with a few appearance touches of my own. The car came out "wicked pissah" as we say in Boston, and won more than a few trophies along the way. Start to finish was about 18 months. Now, as an "expert" on my fourth project, I can honestly say the first one was more fun and came out better.

[Assassin22]

I thought about the coyote but I am a racer and an ol school boy. I want something that few have something with a great punch and a good load of tourque. I took everyone's thoughts and comments. Blasted everything by the wife, which has cost me dinner and a potential "chick flick" and maybe a new couch too not really sure I started drinking when I heard chick flick. But what I came up with is that I want a 331 stroker set around 375-380hp. I can tool with it a little later on if I want to get a little more out of it. After thinking about how light the car is that should be more than enough to put a smile on my face. Really cant wait to brush off the skills and get my hands dirty.

Also, I read somewhere that someone rhino lined all the sheet metal on the car to reduce vibration and the sheet metal ratteling sounds. Has anyone heard of doing this....the more I thought about it the more I thoght it was a good idea. But would the sheet metal still fit together as designed with the tollerences slightly off due to the lining.

[QSL]

i am personally dissapointed when someone opens the hood and its fuel injected.

really think about your block choice. I too originally planned on a 302base but after trolling around decided a 351 base had waaaaay more options in the power department. You can cover any range of power you are looking for with that block.

[GloP]

I personally love the look of the Coyote with the BOSS intake manifold, it looks right at home in the roadster.

[Sailor]

A hot rod should have a carb sitting on top of it in my opinion. But there's no arguing the efficiency, effectiveness etc of a modern setup either.

[LewPoberezny]

Been there done that . Mike is hard to get off the phone.


I talked with Mike Forte this evening. This is a class act A+ guy....and for me service and knowledge sells. Mike knows a ton and is extremely knowledgable on all things related to racing, engines, power, and anything else you can think of. He also convinced me that 350-360 hp is the way to go in the 302. Not that I didnt believe yall he was just able to get through my thick skull and prob arrogant head...haha! Anyways if I buy I am going through him especially with a price you cant beat, the man has exactly what I am looking for and talked as if he knew me for years, great service, I am sold! If my wife didnt come get me in the drive way sitting in my truck I would probably have talked shop for hours.

Anyways, thanks for all the comments and support you guys truly do know your stuff and all have convinced me to do this and now I PROMISE to be more opened minded:) Thanks for everything I look forward to all the advice and shop talk in the future.

Beau

[Someday I Suppose]

On the question of a Coyote vs. a 302 carb engine, its such an apples to oranges comparison, the Coyote is a wicked cool engine for sure, but to me it also depends on what you want from the car, and how 'old school' you want it to be. I'll also add that there is going to be more work in fabrication etc. putting the Coyote in then a 302. As they get more common it will get easier, but right now it will be a bit of work.

I also wanted to add to the how you eat an elephant comment. For me the most daunting parts of the build were brake lines and getting started on the electrical. The electrical for sure, I tried to go out one day and work for an hour and it was just one of those things you needed time to wrap your brain around it, and say okay, these are headlight and front turn indicators, pull them to the front, these are rear turn and brake lights pull them to the back, and soon you have started to sort it out. With the new ron francis harness from FFR its even easier as they are bundled together. The point though one step at a time, you will learn a ton as you go and learn to problem solve as well. That is a huge part of the fun!

-Scott

[gtaroger]

It sounds like you already have the skill to do the job.Roger

[cmsu]

you can rhino line or any type of insulation you want (more weight) but if you use a line of caulk between the panels and the frame then the rivets or use 3m double sided tape between the panels and the frame then the rivets you would mitgate any rattles you would have otherwise had, the insulation or liners help with road noise/heat however with the side exhausts any noise issues are a mute (pardon the pun) point, for heat issues there are many other directions you can take, I personally love the RAW aluminium (untreated, uninsulated, unlined) it adds to the character of the car ......................

[edwardb]

Also, I read somewhere that someone rhino lined all the sheet metal on the car to reduce vibration and the sheet metal ratteling sounds. Has anyone heard of doing this....the more I thought about it the more I thoght it was a good idea. But would the sheet metal still fit together as designed with the tollerences slightly off due to the lining.

The build process is well established and works very well. Pre-fit the panels, pre-drill and use Klekos to temporarily hold everything in place. Once you're satisfied, remove panels and apply whatever finish method works best for you. Some leave them unfinished but most I've seen do not. You can paint, powder coat, sharkhide, whatever. But I wouldn't put anything heavy that changes the fit. I chose to powder coat all of mine. Then reassemble with silicone between the panels and the rivets. Most also apply some type of noise/heat insulation in the cockpit, and then the carpet. If done this way, you won't get any rattling or vibration of the joints, sheet metal noise, etc. Keep in mind, the chassis has no flex. Some may want the bare aluminum look, as the last poster. But this just points out how important it is (as I suggested earlier) to get out and see as many as you can before you decide for your build.

[Kevin Kearney]

Assassin - The best feel you can get for building one of these is by attending Build School.

Kevin

[fisherste]

Just to pile on...supper easy to build. We (family) did our build in six months start to finsih using the complete kit and few mod's for safety and auto X...my then 15 year old did all the electrical work that's how easy it was. The hardest thing to do is figure out (and do this first) what you'll want to do with the car...show, race, street etc.

Good luck.

[PBXII]

This is the Fatter Stig's first car build, so I am taking my time and reading the instructions. I know, I know, i read the instructions!! Just remember a few things, rightytighty, leftyloosey. There are a few parts that are leftytighty, rightyloosey. But in general a very straight forward assembly, requiring no special exotic tools to use. Lot of beer & pizza. The vendors for the Roadster are a great wealth of information, are very patient, & will help you thru a question. Post questions when you get stuck on something. I am half way thru build, at the point of engine/driveline, wheels/tires, to drive.

[Pierre B]

My MKII started life with a 1989 EFI 302 donor, but after all was said and done, I used fewer parts from the original Mustang than I would have thought at the outset. In addition, I only became aware of this Forum more than half way through the building process. Earlier though, I became aware of and got in contact with several of our great vendors, and that changed my perspective in many instances. I had the donor 302 rebuilt in mild form, since I wanted to build a light, nimble, balanced car, and I believe I did just that. HP went up a bit but stayed in the mid 200s. I did come to this building process after three decades plus of motorcycling (mostly on BMWs), so I consider my FFR a four-wheeled bike and I enjoy it tremendously. I could always add more ponies if I wanted to, but for those who start with something more powerful than they can handle, backing off can be quite a trick, if it's even practical or possible. I have found it true that it's more fun to drive a less powerful car fast then to drive a high-powered one slow. My 1970 S2 Lotus Europa proved that to me, but I am only speaking for myself of course. Everyone's different. Mona, my FFR, is the Lotus on steroids!

[Crawleyscobra]

It’s not so much if you can build it, (sounds like you have the skills) for me it has turned out to be when I can, “build it”. I have been working on mine for 4 years now. If you have any sort of life and can’t work on it 2 or 3 hours a night, it can take some time. I’m lucky to work on it 2 or 3 hours a week. So just keep in mind to pace your build according to your life style.

[LuisL]

when you start to upgrade and to add your own personal touch, that is when it becomes difficult. If you do a "by the book build" then you should be just fine.

[E-Ticket Ride]

And remember, its not a job. A schedule to complete by XX date, when your job/family/life is all around can lead to unwanted and unneeded stress. It's supposed to be fun! Enjoy it! take time off to do those things with the family, and pace your build accordingly. I have had mine for almost 6 months now, have all the SM done (until the next cool mod comes along), the IFS installed, and the IRS almost in. and my wheels showed up at my office today. I had forecast a year to 18 months, and will likely end up on the long side of that estimate.

Only problem is that I can't drive it 'til its done...

[MPTech]

If you've got your wife's approval, the hardest part is done! :rolleyes:

Seriously, the guys on here are a wealth of knowledge. USE THEM (and be careful, they like to spend your money on shiney stuff!)

Also, join a local Cobra club, they are GREAT and very motivating. :cool:

[Broadwaydan]

I got my 347 stroker from Proformance Unlimited and have been very happy with them. I am still doing the build - engine and tranny in, working on completing the dash and then hopefully soon get to checking out the wiring and turning it over. I have called back to PU at least 10-15 times with questions and issues about so many things - Steve has been patient and answered every one. Also, since I live only a few hours away I was able to watch some of the build and then pick it up myself. Lots of fun and saved some shipping $$. I think lots of good engine options out there - I am happy with my choice.

Dan