Thinking about Coupe Project

[AllAmericanRacer]

Hey everyone,

I've been looking at the Type 65 Coupe for a couple years now, and started seriously reading the forums a couple months ago. I am looking to start a Coupe in the next year or two (I may be changing jobs and moving across the country, and I don't want to do that with a partially assembled car) and want to at least start formulating an idea for what I want to do.

As for my background, I have rebuilt a 1970 Mustang as well as done minor work with several modern cars. So I am comfortable working on suspension, electrical, brakes, and engine, but would only consider myself a shady tree mechanic. Also, I have no experience with body work, so I am not planning on doing any modifications that involve that.

For an engine, I am thinking of going with a crate engine. Part of me wants to go with a 351 block, but after reading the forums it seems like the 302 is a lot easier to fit in without worrying about how tall the intake manifold and carburetor/EFI is. Since I was thinking of roughly a 400 hp build, it seems like a stroked 302 makes more sense and the decrease of torque shouldn't be too bad. I've been looking at Ford Racing for the crate engine and their prices seem reasonable, but I didn't know what other crate engines worked well with Factory Five builds. (And were reliable companies)

Since I am going with a crate engine, I want to go with an EFI instead of a carburetor. The car isn't going to be a true daily driver, but I would like to take it out a couple times a week, so something reliable would be nice. I also live in Colorado, so if I go driving in the mountains I can notice a power drop with a carburetor. The Holley Avenger, Edelbrock Pro-Flo 2 or E-Street EFI all seem like nice compromises with a typical carburetor look to them. Does anyone know how they compare to each other? I have never done anything with an EFI so I really have no idea which would work best.

Does it make sense to go with the complete kit if I am going with a crate engine? I have heard that even without a donor it is cheaper to get your own parts, but at this point in my life I have more money than time. I'm going to be plenty busy building it, so unless the savings are dramatic or I should be getting better parts I would rather just save the time of having to track down all the parts.

I'm going to go with the 17 inch wheels simply because it is easier to find good tires, but does it make sense to get the upgraded brakes? I have no intention of ever taking it out on the track or drag strip (I'm simply not that good of a driver) but I do want to be able to have some fun with it without constantly worrying about not being able to stop. If I have 400-450 hp will the standard brakes feel weak?

Some minor questions. First, how hard is it to put ABS on? I don't really need it, but I like either all or none of my cars having it so as I switch between cars I don't accidentally pump the brakes when I shouldn't or vice-versa. Second, are there exhaust shields for the coupe? I looked around and all I found were ones for the roadster. Third, how bad is the heat and noise really? I am always doing stupid things out of love for a good driving experience (I routinely drive my convertible home with the top down at 75 mph in 20 degree weather), but I don't want to regret not putting sound/heat damping on the car. I've seen some builds that had headsets to talk to the passenger. Are these people just being ridiculous? If you can't hear each other even when just idling, then I want some sound deadening. If you have to shout, or you can't talk when accelerating then I don't feel it is a problem.

Last, how hard it is to get it registered/through emissions. I notice that there is no catalytic converter option like there is for the roadster, and half the EFI modules out say for non-emission engines. I know each state is different, but is it an uphill battle to get these registered if you stuff like this?

Sorry for the abundance of questions, I just have a lot of thoughts churning about.

[ZacMaster]

I know this isn't helpful, but I'm subscribing as I'm in the same boat and looking forward to the advice from coupe owners.

[LDave]

These are just my personal opinions...

I would go with a complete kit vs. a base, 1. More fun box's to open up while you're putting the thing together. 2. tubular control arms look a lot nicer then factory stuff. ect ect. 3. You'll have everything you need, period.

As far as heat / noise, I haven't been able to drive further then down the street and back with mine. so I can't vouch for the noise or the heat. But ya, the car is loud. But my personal car is not so loud that I need head sets. I don't have sound deadening or anything.

Registrations and emissions will vary depending on what state you're in. I could only give you the run down of how its done in CA. Which does not require getting catalytic converters. Someone else would have to chime in for elsewhere.

[DARKPT]

Hi Racer!

Many of your questions will garner replies based on opinions, as there is more than one way to solve almost every issue you described. I've built exactly one Coupe, and here are my opinions:

A 302 is just fine. I kept my donor EFI and really like it. There are a few more wires under the hood than you'd have with a carb, but that didn't bother me.

I haven't seen anyone selling heat shields for the Coupe, but there are some home-made ones out there. It isn't as big an issue as is it is with the roadster. I have burnt my leg once, but I was really not paying attention. :-)

Where do you live? I live in Alabama, and as long as I'm not sitting still in traffic then the heat is not an issue. Then again, I run a 302 which will put out less heat than some other motors.

As far as noise, it is loud but you can talk at highway speed. There's not much to talk about under full throttle; it's hard to talk around that grin anyway.

You'll probably end up doing some body trimming even if you don't want to touch the body work. It isn't difficult to do.

You mentioned that you have more money than time. It doesn't take that long to source a part, the place where you'll lose time is if you wait to source that part until the last second. Even with a complete kit, expect to get familiar with online sources for hardware, weatherstripping, specialty tools, etc. This site (and the other one at ffcars.com) are full of recommended sources, and both have supporting vendors with excellent reputations.

You've done a restoration, so you have a good idea of the time investment. The kit takes a little longer simply because you'll ask "what's next" pretty regularly. Several of us have done build blogs, mine is linked in my signature below.

ABS means power brakes. I used neither. The biggest issue with braking is getting the right mix of calipers and master cylinder(s). I'm getting great results with OEM parts; others swear by their higher end solutions.

The registration/emissions question varies greatly from one locale to another. In my state, they never looked at the car. In at least one place, a builder is talking about having to include bumpers to get on the road. Tell us where you are, and someone in that area will share their experience.

Welcome to the forum, and we're all hoping you order a kit so we can watch your build!

[riptide motorsport]

Welcome!!

[turbonut48]

DARKPT, He s in Colorado.
AllAmerican, I prefer the 351 for its built in torque. Yea, its taller and you ll have to build a larger hump on the hood.
Mine is very loud. And even with some minimal heat insulation its very hot inside even here in Wis.
Build yours with A/C and heat. Mine doesnt have them, but I will be adding them sometime in the future.

Cobra s are the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

The Nut

[AllAmericanRacer]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Still not sure about the 302 or 351, but that can come later. Sounds like the noise is about perfect, and to make sure to put in the A/C and heat. I'm real excited to get started on this project.

[tirod]

I'm doing the exact same thing, counting down the months waiting for a new income source to start chipping in.

The 351 is a bit taller, the real issue is what kind of intake system you use. A 302 can be stroked, but with the 351 you get factory parts for the extra horsepower that don't cost more money. What you do get is a slightly wider, taller motor, which F5 says should fit - but take these guys word for it. The 351 also weighs more, what you get for that is the ability to accept up to 700 hp output - the 5.0 is only reliable up to 450. Note I said 5.0, which isn't really a 302, and buying a crate means any number of aftermarket blocks could be a source. But, the price goes up.

5.0's are extremely lightweight passenger car castings from about mid '80s up. A lot of beef was taken out, and those that have pushed them with blowers and turbos can testify they don't hold up at the extreme.

Goes back to - what intake system you use. EFI is turnkey nice and works, can be relatively inexpensive with factory parts. One option could be using a four barrel manifold and then a 90 MAF adapter to lower the profile, or the Edelbrock ProFlow XT, which resembles the LS1 or tunnel ram intake. The 351 version is being worked on right now, just in time for us to adopt in a few years. It's no taller than the choke horn on a regular carb on a high rise, so I don't see clearance issues. You have the height of the air cleaner as 351 motor clearance.

Titling, tags, and State DOT issues like what turn signals are compliant are very much a local issue. The regional issues for generally titling a homebuilt car are pretty well covered in threads by roadster owners, it's a rich resource.

I've been concerned about "noise" as an issue, and the roadster guys report their outside exhaust can be, some ride with earplugs. It's up to you, cockpit heat is something they seem be knocking down well with insulation kits for the foot wells. Mods in that area can't hurt, and interior fabrics and insulation for the bare aluminum should knock down the noise levels. Restoring that '70 ( I ran a '66 for 18 years,) there's lots of sound deadening in the interior of factory cars, and taking it out certainly makes them noisy. I remember one particularly long ride with new headers and no carpeting on new metal floorboards for over 800 miles. The return trip got quieter as the headers took a set from the heat. It still never got back to factory levels until the new owner put the pads and carpet back - and it's going to take that to knock it down. All that stuff is highly recommended by the roadster guys, too. They don't run bare metal much unless it's a track car, the subforums here and on TOS tell all.

Of course, for the money, a late model Miata would do - but that's not a Coupe, either.

Frankly, what I've lurked and read, it's all about roll up windows, as the F5 seems to be less than easy or accomodating with the side curtains. Something can be worked out in the long run there, as there has been someone doing that. It's part and parcel of the research, something you can do prior to having cubic yards of money to burn during a build. And certainly nice to know, weighing options like an extra $500 for CNC porting vs using a bigger CC runner. Having the donkey book work done in advance settles a lot of questions and a lot of follow on issues.

On the mark, get set, open the spreadsheet, go!