Power assisted Brake Poll

[mcwho]

I would like a consensus as to how many feel that the Roadster Power Brakes on MKIV or MKIII's are required ?


I want to setup the poll as follows. Either

1. Standard Kit Brakes are fine as supplied by FFR

2. Brakes are a bit hard, Have actual road exp and have or will convert to Power assist with vacuum method or Hydroboost

3. Don't think i matters are don't know !

[MPTech]

I drove 2 older (MK2 / early MK3) roadsters with the modded / manual brakes.
Did it stop? yes
Did it scare me just a little? yes

Am I planning on boosted brakes for my build? YES (already installed!)


to be fair, I haven't tried the Wilwood solution, but would imagine it is significantly better.
I also drove an SPF that was MUCH better, but I don't know what setup he had.

[edwardb]

I voted yes, although the poll says "necessary." Probably a better word, for me anyway, would be wanted or desired. As many have proven, the Roadster can be made to work just fine with manual brakes, especially with upgraded brakes and even upgraded pads. Probably also the story is a little different for the Willwood system in the Mk4. For my Mk3, though, with an SN95 pedal box and Cobra 4-wheel disk brakes, the Whitby vacuum assist add-on gives really excellent braking. My brakes are every bit as good as my relatively new late model DD's.

[David Hodgkins]

I've got manual Willwoods and I'm happy with them. I put don't know because I don't have any experience with complete kit brakes...

:)

[Bob Cowan]

I started out with stock Fox body brakes in the front, and stock T-Bird in the rear. Not as good as the current kit brakes. I thought for everything off the track they were just fine. Manual brakes do require more effort than power, but they worked fine.

I also did the recommended shortening of the brake pedal, and I dog-legged it, too.

BUT, I also used a CMC 3/4" dual master cylinders. I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes.

[mcwho]

Thanks for posts,

I have a complete MKIV kit with the dual mc setup. I am still Building and have time to research and plan.

I am wanting a daily driver kind of car (when not raining) and since I live in FLorida we have many many days of great weather here. I figure if i make it easy and fun to drive, and not a bear to drive, maybe an occasional autocross, it will be better long haul. Right now considering the Whitby brake booster kit.

I am drawing form my experience of owning a Sunbeam Tiger ( 260 cu Ford V-8) in the early 70's. Power Brakes(rear drums), Hydralic Clutch, but NO Power Steering assist. It was a bear to park or drive at slow speeds.

[Raceral]

Go to Whitby's site and check out their kit. It is perfect

[tjmotter]

X2 on Raceral's recommendation. I am in the #2 camp where I started with the manual setup but didn't like it. Moved to the Whitby kit and couldn't be happier. Having read dozens of posts on brake balancing, I adjusted the recommendation to also include ABS. Car stops on a dime and makes change. Feel is excellent and I didn't have to mess around with proportioning valves to try to find the right balance.

[mcwho]

tjmotter,

How involved was the ABS stuff ? did u go with used parts or new. If new parts is this pricey ??

I see that Summit has ABS sensors and modulators available. Is there also a computer or controller module?

[michael everson]

I almost insist that all my customers build are done wiyh power brakes. Practically nothing you drive has manual brakes. they are so much better in my opinion. Of course you still need a well engineered brake system even with power.
Mike

[tjmotter]

Pretty simple really. You can pick up the ABS pump on eBay (I think I paid $115) and also the sensors. The FFR kit typically includes the front ABS rings so that part is really simple as you only have to mount the sensors. I bought my sensors used off of eBay and I believe they were about $80 for all 4. Note that each sensor has a different mounting point and wire orientation so each is unique.

The ABS pump has its own independent computer so it doesn't need anything other than power/ground and a connection to each sensor. You can install a separate dash light and switch (I did) which will give you diagnostics but they aren't really necessary to make the system work.

If you go this route make sure the person selling the ABS pump includes the bracket and the wiring harness. The harness is unique and the bracket is easy to modify to fit on the roadster but would be a pain to fab if you didn't have the original as a starting point.

In my case the biggest pain was that I had Fox length rear axles so I changed them out to SN95 width so that I could use the factory designed ABS rings on the rear. Others have found a way to mount the ABS rings onto the Fox width axles which would be a little harder but would save you some $$ (as well as allow you to use wider tires).

As I recall, I was able to install the Whitby's power brake kit, adapt/mount the ABS pump and change out the rear axles over the space of a couple of weekends. Not hard at all.

HTH
Todd

[Avalanche325]

Keep in mind that ABS requires you to use the same tires front and rear. I was thinking about ABS until I found that it will not work correctly with 17x9" in front and 17x10.5" on the rear.

Now if you could custom make your own tone rings that would even the pulse count.........

[tjmotter]

Keep in mind that ABS requires you to use the same tires front and rear. I was thinking about ABS until I found that it will not work correctly with 17x9" in front and 17x10.5" on the rear.

Now if you could custom make your own tone rings that would even the pulse count.........

You can get tires that are matched height such as:
front 245/45 R17 matched to rear 315/35 R17 with a 25.7” tire height

The abs controller is triggered by a brake sensor

[frankeeski]

You can get tires that are matched height such as:
front 245/45 R17 matched to rear 315/35 R17 with a 25.7” tire height

The abs controller is triggered by a brake sensor
Just to go one step further than TJ, the ABS systems allow for up to a 3% differential in tires front to rear.

[frankeeski]

I would like a consensus as to how many feel that the Roadster Power Brakes on MKIV or MKIII's are required ?


I want to setup the poll as follows. Either

1. Standard Kit Brakes are fine as supplied by FFR

2. Brakes are a bit hard, Have actual road exp and have or will convert to Power assist with vacuum method or Hydroboost

3. Don't think i matters are don't know !

While I can't speak first hand about the complete kit manual brakes I will say this. I have driven a couple FFR's with manual brakes and they were all SCARY to get slowed down. Power brakes with even a stock Mustang brake package on the other hand slows you down in a hurry with minimal pedal effort. The only issue I have ever had with the stock power setup is with brake fade after continued use.

[Pierre B]

I built my MKII with unassisted brakes. With over 13,000 miles on the odo, I have found the four discs easy to modulate and very reliable: not scary at all. Admittedly, I sought to build light, nimble and simple: basically a 4-wheel motorcycle. Of course, I didn't go nuts with horsepower, since I just had my 1989 302 EFI rebuilt and mildly modified. I am happy as a clam with my setup.
That said, I know what Frank is talking about in the previous post. Before I ordered my kit back in 2004, I drove another builder's MKI. I don't know how he set up his brakes, but they were also unassisted. Also, he had not modified his brake pedal per the kit instructions, so his brake pedal did not have the necessary increase in leverage for the brakes to work properly (IMO). And so yes, stopping that FFR was scary to me, but stopping mine is definitely not. Different strokes...

[mcwho]

I appreciate all the feedback here. Since I have never had the opportunity to Drive a FF Roadster as yet, My learning will begin in the go cart stage.

[Avalanche325]

Just to go one step further than TJ, the ABS systems allow for up to a 3% differential in tires front to rear.

That is a nice number to know. I read quite a bit, almost all was negative with different revs/mile. If you are out of range the system just goes into fault mode.

It looks like I am going Wilwood. So probably manual. Apparantly Wilwood and Power is too much for good pedal feel.

I drove a manual MKI and it was scary. That was after 9 years of a manual 66 Mustang.