Mk5 Fuel System Advice

[brian.pautsch]

This is the first time I'm building out a fuel system, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

ENGINE
Custom Build by Borowski Race Engines
351W DART Block stroked to 427
Holley Terminator X Max EFI
Jim Inglese Stacks
Expecting ~650 HP. Yes, it's too much :)

FUEL SYSTEM
Listed below are the items I believe I need to order and why.

- Injectors will be set up for 58 psi.
- I'd like to run AN-08 feed & return lines to guarantee plenty of fuel.
- Since the FFR tank is shallow and doesn't have baffling, a Hydramat seems like a good idea.

1. In-Tank high-pressure EFI pump. 58–65 psi. Flow target: 65-70 GPH minimum (246+ LPH)
Holley Retrofit Module (PN: 12-132)
450 LPH. Hydramat built-in. AN-08 fittings (via hat fittings)
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/ignition_and_fuel_systems/fuel_systems_and_accessories/in-tank_retrofit_fuel_module/parts/12-132

2. Fuel Pressure Regulator. Return-style system. Set to 58.5 psi base.
Holley Billet EFI Return-Style Regulator - AN-08 ports (PN: 12-895)
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_pumps_regulators_and_filters/regulators/efi_regulators/parts/12-895KIT

3. Fuel Filters: Pre-filter: 100 micron. Post-filter: 10 micron
Aeromotive 100 Micron Black Fuel Filter with Male AN-08 Ports & Stainless Mesh Element (PN: 12379)
https://aeromotiveinc.com/products/male-an-08-100m-stainless-filter
Aeromotive 10 Micron Black Fuel Filter with Male AN-08 Ports & Microglass Element (PN: 12375)
https://aeromotiveinc.com/products/an-08-male-10-micron-microglass

4. Fuel Lines & Plumbing: Flexible Braided PTFE. Feed: -8 AN, Return: -8 AN (or 1/2")
Evil Energy 8AN PTFE Fuel Line Kit 33FT, E85 Braided PTFE Fuel Hose Line Kit Black Nylon (PN: EVFS10986AN8)
https://www.ievilenergy.com/products/ptfe-fuel-line-kit-33ft-24pcs

5. Fuel pressure gauge/sensor
SpeedHut 2-1/16" Fuel Pressure Gauge 0-100 psi (w/ warning) (PN: R2-FP4)
https://speedhut.com/gauge-applications/revolution-racing-performance/performance-led-pressure/performance-led-fuel-pressure/2-1-16-fuel-pressure-gauge-0-100-psi-w-warning/

Anything else?

Thanks,
Brian

[PNWTim]

It looks good to me and -8 is plenty large. I think you are wise sticking with Holley components. I personally opted for a non-return system using the Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator mounted in the rear rather than the engine compartment. Perhaps the Holley Terminator system requires the fuel return? If so, your choices look great.

Good luck with your build.

[brian.pautsch]

Thanks for the quick reply! I was leaning towards Aeromotive components initially, but the Holley Hydramat made a lot of sense. I don't plan to track it and it'll never get below 1/4 tank, but better safe than sorry.

[Mike.Bray]

That's a good list of components. Maybe I'm not thinking clear but how are you going to have a pre-filter with an intank pump? You should only need a 10 micron filter after the pump.

If you're doing Ingelese EFI stacks they're probably from Borla and should have a regulator already installed. Check with Jim on this. If not Borla has this nice regulator that attaches directly to the fuel rail. https://www.borlainduction.com/product/rail-end-mount-type-regulators/ I'm using on a system I'm building now.

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You're smart to run -8 PTFE lines as the ID is only about 0.300" on -6 PTFE hose, less than -6 tube. I transitioned from hard line to -8 PTFE hose with a junction block I made on a stack system I'm currently building.

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[Jeff Kleiner]

Brian,
I was going to suggest that you reach out to Mike. He has spoken…listen to him ;)

Jeff

[brian.pautsch]

Hey Mike. Thanks for the reply. Those stacks look great!

Regarding the filters: I read recommendations on running both filters anyways. Clearly it wouldn't sit in front of the pump, but would still catch "bigger" things before the 10 micron. But I agree with you...it's not necessary at all.

Good call on the regulator. I'll email Borowski and ask. I took some photos when I visited them the other day.

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[brian.pautsch]

Brian,
I was going to suggest that you reach out to Mike. He has spoken…listen to him ;)

Jeff

Thanks! Mike and I spoke a couple months ago and I learned a lot from just a brief phone call. So glad he chimed in.

[Mike.Bray]

Hey Mike. Thanks for the reply. Those stacks look great!

Regarding the filters: I read recommendations on running both filters anyways. Clearly it wouldn't sit in front of the pump, but would still catch "bigger" things before the 10 micron. But I agree with you...it's not necessary at all.

Good call on the regulator. I'll email Borowski and ask. I took some photos when I visited them the other day.

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227192

Ahhh, you have the Weber look alike EFI stacks. Very nice.

Those don't have fuel rails like mine so not sure what they do for the regulator. Jim will know!

[David Hodgkins]

I love me some engine porn!

You dudes are both stacked! That's HOT!

OK I feel a little weird now...

:D

[Mike.Bray]

This is the first time I'm building out a fuel system, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

ENGINE
Custom Build by Borowski Race Engines
351W DART Block stroked to 427
Holley Terminator X Max EFI
Jim Inglese Stacks
Expecting ~650 HP. Yes, it's too much :)

FUEL SYSTEM
Listed below are the items I believe I need to order and why.

- Injectors will be set up for 58 psi.
- I'd like to run AN-08 feed & return lines to guarantee plenty of fuel.
- Since the FFR tank is shallow and doesn't have baffling, a Hydramat seems like a good idea.

1. In-Tank high-pressure EFI pump. 58–65 psi. Flow target: 65-70 GPH minimum (246+ LPH)
Holley Retrofit Module (PN: 12-132)
450 LPH. Hydramat built-in. AN-08 fittings (via hat fittings)
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/ignition_and_fuel_systems/fuel_systems_and_accessories/in-tank_retrofit_fuel_module/parts/12-132

2. Fuel Pressure Regulator. Return-style system. Set to 58.5 psi base.
Holley Billet EFI Return-Style Regulator - AN-08 ports (PN: 12-895)
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_pumps_regulators_and_filters/regulators/efi_regulators/parts/12-895KIT

3. Fuel Filters: Pre-filter: 100 micron. Post-filter: 10 micron
Aeromotive 100 Micron Black Fuel Filter with Male AN-08 Ports & Stainless Mesh Element (PN: 12379)
https://aeromotiveinc.com/products/male-an-08-100m-stainless-filter
Aeromotive 10 Micron Black Fuel Filter with Male AN-08 Ports & Microglass Element (PN: 12375)
https://aeromotiveinc.com/products/an-08-male-10-micron-microglass

4. Fuel Lines & Plumbing: Flexible Braided PTFE. Feed: -8 AN, Return: -8 AN (or 1/2")
Evil Energy 8AN PTFE Fuel Line Kit 33FT, E85 Braided PTFE Fuel Hose Line Kit Black Nylon (PN: EVFS10986AN8)
https://www.ievilenergy.com/products/ptfe-fuel-line-kit-33ft-24pcs

5. Fuel pressure gauge/sensor
SpeedHut 2-1/16" Fuel Pressure Gauge 0-100 psi (w/ warning) (PN: R2-FP4)
https://speedhut.com/gauge-applications/revolution-racing-performance/performance-led-pressure/performance-led-fuel-pressure/2-1-16-fuel-pressure-gauge-0-100-psi-w-warning/

Anything else?

Thanks,
Brian

I was thinking about this a little more and had some thoughts.

That's a lot of money for an intank pump setup and I don't think it will "drop in" to the FFR supplied tank. I took the easy road and called Forte for a 450 L/hr setup that literally dropped in, took less than 5 minutes to install.

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That's a very pricy 10 micron filter that gains you nothing. I went with the Holley 162-554 that Borla recommended. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-162-554 Doing it again I would go with either this one https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230116-b or maybe a canister style for ease of servicing although in these cars they're probably never get to that point. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-12317

I was always an Earl's guy for AN stuff but have used the Evil Energy PTFE hose and fittings and it seems to work well.

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Do yourself a huge favor and get one of these, makes assembling the fittings onto the hoses a breeze. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC28G64Y?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Why do you want a fuel pressure gauge? Install one to set the pressure and be done. They have a nasty habit of leaking and you're got fuel pressure reading in the ECU and on the handheld if you install one.

I have to ask, why the Terminator Max? The main thing it adds is GM DBW and GM transmission control. The standard Terminator X should work fine. If you want to spend more money and step up and go with the HP ECU.

Hope this helps.

[CW_MI]

Just looked at that price for the Holley pump...wow, they sure are proud of their stuff.

I'm sure they've come a long way from those horrible external blue and red pumps that so many ran years ago...hopefully.

[brian.pautsch]

I love me some engine porn!

You dudes are both stacked! That's HOT!

OK I feel a little weird now...

:D

haha

[brian.pautsch]

I was thinking about this a little more and had some thoughts.

That's a lot of money for an intank pump setup and I don't think it will "drop in" to the FFR supplied tank. I took the easy road and called Forte for a 450 L/hr setup that literally dropped in, took less than 5 minutes to install.

That's a very pricy 10 micron filter that gains you nothing. I went with the Holley 162-554 that Borla recommended. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-162-554 Doing it again I would go with either this one https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230116-b or maybe a canister style for ease of servicing although in these cars they're probably never get to that point. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-12317

I was always an Earl's guy for AN stuff but have used the Evil Energy PTFE hose and fittings and it seems to work well.

Do yourself a huge favor and get one of these, makes assembling the fittings onto the hoses a breeze. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC28G64Y?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Why do you want a fuel pressure gauge? Install one to set the pressure and be done. They have a nasty habit of leaking and you're got fuel pressure reading in the ECU and on the handheld if you install one.

I have to ask, why the Terminator Max? The main thing it adds is GM DBW and GM transmission control. The standard Terminator X should work fine. If you want to spend more money and step up and go with the HP ECU.

Hope this helps.

Thanks! This is great.
I'm not too concerned about the $ if it'll give me a reliable setup, but no need to overspend! And yeah, I was not thrilled about opening the pump hole.
I'll definitely reach out to Forte regarding the pump. It's makes so much sense.
The engine builder spec'd out most of the engine. A lot of this is new to me. I'm learning along the way.
When I built my Ultima RS, I sourced an LT4 crate motor and Ultima had a fuel system option designed for it. I didn't have to think much. (Build website in my signature)
I'm in new territory now reading and learning a ton (and having blast doing so)...but also leaning on experienced guys like you and Jeff.

[rich grsc]

Sorry I just don't understand why you think you need AN-08 fuel lines for a street driven car making 650 HP. On the street you will never be running at wide open at full HP. If it was a track car using full power all the time, you might run short on fuel. Stop and think, you really think you will burn a 1/2" stream of fuel..:rolleyes:

[CW_MI]

Sorry I just don't understand why you think you need AN-08 fuel lines for a street driven car making 650 HP. On the street you will never be running at wide open at full HP. If it was a track car using full power all the time, you might run short on fuel. Stop and think, you really think you will burn a 1/2" stream of fuel..:rolleyes:

Don't "need" 650hp in a 2400 pound street car either....but it isn't about need.

Personally, I've always errored on the side of caution when it comes to fuel systems. I always went overkill on my street/strip cars and performance boat.

And when I bought the -6 PTFE line for my car, I started second guessing myself...the diameter just seems so small. I'm sure it will be fine for my little 500hp build.

[Mike.Bray]

Sorry I just don't understand why you think you need AN-08 fuel lines for a street driven car making 650 HP. On the street you will never be running at wide open at full HP. If it was a track car using full power all the time, you might run short on fuel. Stop and think, you really think you will burn a 1/2" stream of fuel..:rolleyes:

Because with PTFE AN hose -6 is considerable smaller than 3/8" and -8 is considerable smaller than 1/2". Other than slightly more cost for hose and fittings there's no downside to stepping up to -8 fuel hose while running lean has a considerable cost.

[brian.pautsch]

Whether you love or hate AI/ChatGPT, it has analyzed a ridiculous amount of websites/data to answer any question you throw at it.

I asked it "What size AN hoses will work for various ranges of horsepower? The vehicle will be using 93 octane gasoline, require 58 psi fuel pressure and have fuel lines that run 12 feet."

And it responded:

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