Forma Cars Power Side Window Install Project

[TTimmy]

Hi all,
I’m taking a shot at documenting the install of my Forma Car power window kit on my coupe. I have two seasons and about 6000 miles on the car. It was still in gel coat when I did this work and it was done just prior to me starting bodywork on the car. At the time of this writing the car is now pulled apart for paint and I have only completed the mechanical and electrical work on the window project. I have not completed any of the final fitment, weather stripping, door cards, etc.

I am not a technical writer but I will do my best to document the project. Please say something if you see something that may not be correct and I will get it corrected. I want to make sure that this post is useful for others that come behind me. Given the limitations on uploading pictures, quantities, etc. I will be making multiple posts to this thread in the near future.

I have posted some video content and walkthroughs on my YouTube channel. As I am not a technical writer, nor am I a videographer. The quality of my YouTube work is rough at best. Worse yet, you will have to listen to some rambling hay seed talking the entire time. Watch at your own risk. This is the link to the bodywork playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKBwoILYzQxkfapNbvcA-l49pIl3KGGil

I have also uploaded a bunch of photos to a forum gallery album. I will be posting many of them within this thread and add a bit of context. Here is the link: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=2695

Forma Cars and their Products:
Forma Cars does full custom builds as well offering a number of unique items for FFR vehicles. They are also a sponsor of this forum. I also purchased their overhead console and third brake light kits along with the power window kit. In for a penny in for a pound, right?

https://www.formacars.com/

General window kit Observations
The first impressions are very satisfying - kind of like opening up an Apple product. The packaging, presentation and products are all very high quality and everything is well designed and very well thought out. They make ingenious use of 3D printed components for the mounting, structure, fitment and packaging.

I think the kit is a good value. That said, it’s not inexpensive, but you get your money’s worth out of the components and the supplier. I was chatting with another owner about a retrofit by Forma and he was quoted about $10K given the car is already painted and assembled. In my opinion, it would take a brave and competent person to tackle this on a finished car.

It is absolutely shocking and frightening the amount of material you need to remove from the inner door skin to accommodate the window frame and mechanism. It is necessary to clear the new window frame which traverses the door cavity at an angle. In the end, there is enough material and support.

Factor in some wiring for the extra circuits. I have the RF harness and added a 7 circuit Painless auxiliary harness to support the windows and doors that include HAAT and switched circuits. I would be asking too much of the RF harness at this point. Again, in for a penny…

The kit includes many templates, guides, spacers, etc. that will be needed over the course of the install.

Note that the new door frames come unfinished. If you want them powder coated or painted you will need to do some very minor disassembly of the door poppers. Make note of where the little bitty washers go - more on that later. You will need to disassemble the popper and latch mechanism later to drill holes anyway. I recommend doing this before the install.

https://www.formacars.com/product/type-65-coupe-electric-windows/

Forma overhead console
These are also well designed. I wish the console had more storage space, but it is what it is. I lost both of my door cubbies and need to find somewhere to store all my bits and bobs. There is a lot of space above the roll bars in the coupe and it would be great if it could be better utilized. I made the trade off and I am OK with the new arrangement. Anyway, the console is nice and I can wire in the overhead lights to new door lighting.

For the overhead console, I have wired up the light trigger from the window kit door popper to also light up the overhead console lights as there are provisions for an external input. You will need a special connector… either steal an audio cable off an old computer CD rom drive or ask Forma and they will ship you the proper connector.

https://www.formacars.com/product/type-65-overhead-light/

Forma Third brake light
I changed direction on my third taillight and abandoned the spoiler mounted light. I go over that in more detail on my youtube ramblings. The bottom line is that I decided on a glass mounted light. Of course that took me down a rabbit hole of flush mounting my spoiler. We don’t take on these projects because they are easy. But that topic is not for this thread either. The unit has some auxiliary lighting for the trunk space that activates when you open the glass. I needed to add a constant hot to the area and extend my brake lights. This was easy to tackle once the body was off.

https://www.formacars.com/product/type-65-center-brake-light/

Supplier Observations
My experience with the team at Forma has been great so far. They provide good communication and are very responsive to calls and emails. Their email responses are generally within minutes or hours. Anytime I called during business hours someone answered the phone.

The lead time was longer than discussed due to supplier issues that Forma experienced- that said, they did keep me updated on the status.

They have solid tech support. I broke a part and they had a replacement in my hands in two days. Furthermore, they made modifications to the kit based on this failure to prevent a recurrence. This is one of the pros of 3D printed parts. (Note: It's tough when your arms are like thighs - but this is a burden I bear :-) I must have overtighted the bolt).

After inquiring about linking the door lights to their overhead console kit they sent some wiring and plugs so I could link the two together.

Packaging
The kit comes very well packaged with all the components well secured and well identified. The window frames and glass come packed in a small crate which is packed within a cardboard box. It was all secured very well within the crate. (Note that there are some grey 3D printed components on the bottom of the window frames that are included solely for shipping purposes. Don’t make the same mistake as me and think that they are for attaching the windows frame to the door frame).

All the little parts are bagged and well identified. All of the wiring components are neatly wrapped, the individual wires are very well labeled and quality plugs are used wherever possible.

Here is what to expect regarding the shipment:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226015&d=1771901454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226014&d=1771901454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226011&d=1771901420

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226013&d=1771901420

[TTimmy]

Installation

Guiding principles:
You want the body fitment to be in the final state before tackling the doors. Your aluminum, hood, doors and glass should all be in place when fitting the doors. (windshield does not need to be glued in). The hood should be in its final position at least roughly gapped. You will replace the stock FFR door frames so spend your time on door fit and gapping with the NEW frames. There is not much benefit to aligning the doors to the original frames.
My car was on the road for two seasons, during which time I put over 6000 miles on the beast.

I had some serious fitment issues on both of my doors with the original frames. The driver side required about a ⅜ spacer on the frame to force the door skin in towards the center. The passenger side door had a large gap between the upper door skin and the window frame. Basically the upper lip of the door skin was not wide enough. These are identical issues to what EdwardB dealt with and documented very well on his build thread. Both of these were addressed with this kit - I did not need the large spacer to pull the DS door skin inward; and the gap on the PS door became irrelevant as that top lip of the door gets trimmed back to make way for the glass and frame.

When aligning the door elements I feel it is very important to keep in mind you are aligning three very separate but related pieces that all affect each other: door frame, door skin and window frame. Thus there is a lot of “rinse and repeat” when it comes to getting things aligned. Like fitting the hood or aligning the tires, everything starts to come together and will converge for a well aligned fitment.
So you are dealing with three things:



The door frame to car frame: Using the FFR hinges at the front and a new striker at the rear. I did have to tweak my striker locations which meant enlarging the holes and later filling in areas to keep that area tidy.
The door skin to body: Most of this can and should be done through the hinges and striker as part of your initial alignment with the Forma frames. However, you can also shift the door skin around on the door frame. In the case of my DS door which previously required a spacer, I did add some spacers to the bottom in order to fine tune the alignment. I reused some of the spacers included with the kit that were intended for the door frame to window frame fitment. You will want to have some weatherstrip in place while doing this fitment so that you really understand where things will ultimately land.
The window frame to body. The kit includes a lot of spacers of various thicknesses in order to get the window frame to properly align to both the body lines and the door frame. It can be adjusted at the front, the rear and at the bottom (bottom adjusts the angle). In my case I snapped off an ear of one of the forward mounts. The spacers available to me did not extend under the bolts at the extreme ends of the bracket. The bracket might have been weak or, more likely, I just tightened things up a bit too much. I understand these spacers were being redesigned to prevent this.


226355

[TTimmy]

Door Frame install
They include a replacement door frame with more spacing between the horizontal rails. It also has a sacrificial third rail (not like the subway) that is used for initial door skin alignment and fitting. You will eventually remove it by cutting out a couple tack welds. Again, their install process is very well thought out.

Door frame with new upper rail and "sacrificial" middle rail. Note the door skin alignment bracket on the top:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226030&d=1771901567

I recall the instructions asking for the rivnut install quite late in the process - probably easier to do it sooner. Make a note:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226024&d=1771901528

I had an issue in one of my door frame-to-hinge areas. Like the FFR frame, the bolts are welded to the frame and attached through the hinge. On the lower FFR hinge mount the bolt is bordered by steel framing on several sides. In my situation, one of the bolts was too close to the framing to get the nut to fit in the opening. I ended up ordering a smaller 12 point ARP nut that gave me the clearance I needed. I might have been OK with three of the four, but glad I was able to secure it properly. This is not necessarily a Forma issue, but maybe more so with how everything aligned in my situation.

ARP Bolt for Clearance:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226028&d=1771901567

Door frame with new upper rail and "sacrificial" middle rail. Note the door skin alignment bracket on the top:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226030&d=1771901567



Door Skin Install
Make sure to get your openings in the door jam large enough to conveniently take the door skin on and off. You will be putting it on and off many, many dozens of times. Don’t underestimate how many times the skin will be on and off. Both now and later. You will become very good at it.

Keep the alignment principles in mind at all times. Any unintended contact between the door skin and anything other than its intended mounting surfaces will be problematic. Look for and resolve these contact points.
Carefully check and correct any contact or interference between the door skin and the window frame or window frame mounting brackets as you go. You will need to address any interference by either trimming the door skin or trimming the other bits.

Marked for second round of cuts after marking with their template:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225998&d=1771901166

Fully trimmed door skin clears the brackets, mechanisms, etc:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225999&d=1771901194

Door Skin Template and drilling the upper door skin: when you secure the drilling template I found it best to support from the rear with a paint stick to prevent movement and get a more accurate hole.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226001&d=1771901194

Make provisions for attaching your side view windows as access will be impossible for very difficult once the skin is attached since the upper door frame has been raised. In my case I HSRFed (Verb?) some adhesive mount nuts to receive the external mirror bolts (McMaster PN: 98007A313 for ¼”). You also may need to shorten your mirror bolts. I am using the BRE mirrors and the bolts were steel and were rusting anyway.

Mirror mounts viewed from the inside:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226027&d=1771901528

[TTimmy]

Window Frame Installation
Again, make sure to remove the grey printed brackets at the bottom of the frame. They are only for shipping purposes.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226046&d=1771901756

In order to drill the holes for the rear mount I needed to remove the popper and latch mechanisms. Note the location of the small washers. Some screws had them and some did not. When reinstalling, use tape to hold the screws in place and return the washers to their original locations before securing everything back together.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226018&d=1771901454

I also had to clearance the flanges on the flange bolts used for attaching the rear window frame mount as they were contacting other hardware nearby. Not a big deal.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226020&d=1771901481

Here is a close up of the bracket I overtighted (arms like thighs). It attaches the window frame to the door frame.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225990&d=1771901133

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225992&d=1771901133

Here is how I clamped the frame to the roll bar for fitting the window frame:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226045&d=1771901756

Use a drill stop when drilling this hole or remove the frame entirely once the location is marked.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226040&d=1771901704

[TTimmy]

Door frame and window frame installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226048&d=1771901792

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226044&d=1771901756

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226046&d=1771901756

Note the spacer guides along the top rail of the window frame to ensure proper spacing:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226043&d=1771901756

Pre body work
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226037&d=1771901599

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226007&d=1771901282

Post bodywork
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226038&d=1771901704

[TTimmy]

More Semi-finished photos:
I needed to clearance the weld above the popper:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226029&d=1771901567

Needed to clearance the lower window glass attachment on one side:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226026&d=1771901528

[Higgybulin]

I am sure these posts will help some people out!! Good job!
Higgy

[Skuzzy]

Thank you for putting in the effort to document this. I have saved the link to reference when I get around to installing mine.

[TTimmy]

Auxiliary external door handle - under the hood
They supply a template for the new door handle to be installed in the footbox. Instructions are ambiguous, only drill the large holes for the four corners of the door handle opening. Smaller holes are needed to secure the handle to the aluminum.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226031&d=1771901567

You will also need to drill an elongated hole/slot for the aux cable to enter the inside of the footbox. I did this with the body on. I recommend you mark the location and handle this once you have the body off for paint if that works in your situation.

Here is auxiliary door handle opening which still needs some clean up. And, to the right, is the slot for the cable to enter the footbox. Do this the body for a cleaner outcome.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226367&d=1772637659

BeltlineSeal
Beltline seal is the fuzzy weatherstripping at the base of the window opening that will attach to the top of the door skin later in the process. There may be some interaction between the belt seal and door skin that affect skin alignment. Keep this in mind when fitting these pieces. Cut reliefs into the seal to get it to more easily bend to match the contour/profile of the door top. Mine needed to be cut to clear the window frame mount brackets

Your beltline seal will not look like this from the manual. In this photo the outer edge that extends over the door is a separate product. The weatherstripping ends right at the cut in the door.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226009&d=1771901420

Here is a profile of the beltline seal. The small curved edge at the upper left sits against the upper door edge. The long part towards the bottom is what attaches it to the door on the inside (not visible). The bit to the upper right is what brushed against the glass.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225984&d=1771901093

Here is what it looks like as it starts to come together:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225985&d=1771901093

[TTimmy]

Quarter Windows Installation
I did this once everything else was nailed down so I could get things aligned on the same planes horizontally, vertically, etc. Of course you need to work the gap between the quarter window and the side window.

Note. Consider the construction of this piece as you work to mount it. It has three pieces: outer frame, glass and inner frame. The glass comes secured to the outer frame. The inner frame secures the assembly to the body. Only two bolts hold the outer frame to the inner frame. Thus, there is some flexing between the outer and inner frame. Hence, you may find that you get everything where you want it and then drill all the mounting holes for the inner frame only to find out that the outer frame will shift somewhat since it is not rigidly attached to the inner frame. This makse perfect alignment a challenge - you cannot force fit the windows to align. The outer portion needs to sit in the proper position without heavy pressure or force fitting.

Given the design of the window frame it is four screw holes drilled square relative to the frame. This worked out OK for all but one hole. When drilling the upper hole on my drivers side the hole went through the roof because of the restricted angle. Not the end of the world on an unfinished car. I patched the outside with HSRF and used the inner hole as a guide to redrill at a better angle.

I ended up filling the reliefs around the perimeter of the window as I felt it looked better. While some of it was hidden, there were portions that would be visible near the bottom.

The windows are nylon and can be painted or left as is. I ended up goobering up one of the windows when I handled it with HSRF or filler on my gloves. My initial cleaning was not very successful and I still need to deal with this mess. Be careful. I am concerned that the raw nylon or whatever it is will get marked up easily and I am considering painting. Thus I wish they had come disassembled. You may want to make this request if you order this kit… WIndows are available unassembled in the case that you want to paint them body colour.

Quarter windows standoffs trimmed down:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226041&d=1771901704

Disassembled:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226376&d=1772637686

Here is a photo of the gap filling in progress:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226042&d=1771901704

[TTimmy]

Wiring - General
All of the wiring comes terminated with plugs where possible and includes plenty of extra length for installation flexibility. The wires are marked the full length of the wire, not just at the ends. It is all light gauge wire and is wrapped with a breathable harness where appropriate. There was nothing in the documentation about how to fuse the door and window subsystems. I used 10a shared on the poppers and 20a for the combined window circuits. The wiring consists of following basic systems:

The main chassis harness contains 12v constant, 12v switched, ground, lighting trigger and accepts the connection for the exterior door switches. One harness for each side.
The door frame harness will connect to the chassis harnesses and window switch harnesses just inside the hinge opening inside the door
The window switch harness connects the window switches to their respective door frame harnesses. Again, there is plenty of wire and both ends are terminated. In my case I could put the switches at the extreme left edge of the dash and it would reach the PS just fine. This is basically two harnesses assembled as a single unit where they would enter the switch box/protective case and share a common grommet for use in the weather proof box..
The exterior door switch harness extends from the outside quarter window area to the main chassis harness.



Photo of the wiring harness that will extend through the hinge opening. I wrapped everything for a bit more protection:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226371&d=1772637659

Wiring is well labeled:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226375&d=1772637686



Wiring - Window Switches
The window switches are probably intended to be mounted on the center trans tunnel or forward lower center console. The switches come with plenty of wire so the location is pretty flexible and ultimately the builders choice. They include a mourning box with a simulated leather grain interior bezel and a weather proof box for attaching to the underside of the console or trans tunnel aluminum. I did not care for the finish of the cover as it clashed with my existing leather finish in terms of texture and color. Easy to make your bezel.

The window switches did not match the existing interior decor of my car and swapping them out was not as simple as finding another switch. They are BMW parts and I believe they are muti-function and not simple 12v switches. They are also very deep, so I could not make them work on my existing center console extension.

I have not yet installed them, but I am considering hiding them under the dash to the right of the steering wheel or perhaps to the left of the wheel on that downward sloped part of the dash near the door. I’ve used hidden switches on my recent cobra builds and I kind of like that approach. The only downside is that the passenger will not have access to the switch. Whatever.

This is the BMW switch supplied with the kit. It is very deep:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226373&d=1772637686

This is the supplied switch plate:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226374&d=1772637686


Wiring - Door Poppers
The door poppers can be triggered from two locations. The external location is a switch on the quarter window. The second is from the internal handle. The internal handle will first trigger the popper and if pulled further will activate the mechanical opening of the door. Pretty ingenious!

The trigger in the door is tied into the harnesses outlined above and requires no special consideration. The switch from the quarter window requires some thought as to how you will route the harnesses. Keep in mind the harnesses route through the top of the rear wheel wells. In my case I wrapped them in an impermeable harness wrap on top of the existing breathable harness wrap to provide a little better protection. Once I do the final install I will probably further protect the harness by wrapping in some convoluted tubing to protect it in the wheel well area.

From there I took the harness along the same route as my existing wiring through the trans tunnel and up into the dash. From there it joined into the chassis harnesses.

External Door wiring in progress:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226372&d=1772637686

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226369&d=1772637659

With the switch:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226370&d=1772637659

[TTimmy]

Door Popper Lighting
The door popper includes an option to trigger interior lighting. It uses a third party lighting controller that's available online. Once triggered it turns on the footwell lighting and then it will fade out after a set (adjustable) amount of time. In my case I upgraded to a WiFi configurable version of the device (~$40). The unit will also trigger my overhead console lighting as well. Additionally, it will trigger the lights when it senses the ignition being shut off, similar to a DD.

This is the lighting controller I upgraded to. The supplied unit is a different version from the same company. I wanted to be able to configure via WiFi.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226368&d=1772637659

Door Trigger issue related to the Lighting Circuit
While testing the doors I found that triggering one door from any switch would cause both doors to open. After some troubleshooting I found that the signal was somehow traversing through the lighting trigger to the other doors. This would only be an issue if you're using the interior lighting option. I ended up putting a diode on each of the lighting trigger wires before entering the lighting controller. I brought this to Forma’s attention and they are looking into it. They had not reports of this problem, however I am aware of one other owner with the issue.

Bodywork:
I chose to eliminate the recess along where the quarter window sits. I found it worked better in my situation and I did not want any artifacts of the old window mount visible. Thus I filled it in with HSRF to align to the rest of the body. There is a lot more on that and related bodywork topics on my YouTube channel.

Here is a photo of the gaps filling in progress:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226042&d=1771901704


Tip:
In order to ensure you get the same alignment upon reassembly, drill alignment holes in the top and bottom of each hinge. This applies regardless of whether your using the Forma windows. I used the extra long drill bit I had to buy for my initial door hinge install.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225989&d=1771901133


Next Steps
AT this stage I am completing my bodywork. Thus I did not tackle much of the finish work other than some basic roughing-in/mock up. The major steps that are outstanding:

Belt line installation
Upper and lower door card installation
Final fitment and alignment
Final quarter windows installation

[Papa]

Tim,

Thank you for documenting the power window installation so thoroughly in the forum and in your YouTube videos. I have a set on order, and this information will be invaluable when I get to this part of my build.

Dave

[JimStone]

Agreed, thank you for documenting this




I have the Forma windows and have been working on the electrics installation. I'm very far away from actually fitting the doors.

I did not like the windows switch and wanted something that matched all my other buttons/switches (Billet Automotive Buttons 22mm). It took some experimentation to figure out how to replicate the switch that comes with the Forma kit. Like you said, it's not just an "on/off" switch. It puts out different voltages based on whether it's pressed forward/back, hard press (for auto close) or soft press (for manual close). Then the computer module in the door reads the voltage.



I figured out that you need about a 220-400 ohm resistor to get the right voltage for a "down" signal and 1.5k-4k ohm for an "up" signal. I couldn't figure out how to replicate the auto-close function, but the windows take like 2 seconds to open/close so it's not a big deal.


I am now mounting two pair of billet buttons/switches (up and down symbols) that match my other switches. I'm mounting them on the trans cover so both occupants can access them

[q4stix]

Thank you for going through this! I've been on the fence about what to do with windows and this helps inform further.
Now to just get to the point of this. Someday!