Mk5 427 Engine Rear Oil Pan below frame?

[Pete&Scott]

Installed BP 427 engine and TKX transmission in our MK5 this weekend, the rear oil pan on the driver's side was hanging an 1 inch below the frame, the passenger side was even. Last night, my son and I repositioned the engine, which helped a bit, but then installed a couple of washer spacers on the driver's side between the engine and the engine mounts, and added about 1/2 inch of spacers between the transmission mount and the transmission plate. The rear oil pan is now close to level, and both sides are now about 3/8 inch below the frame. Tried mounting the transmission plate on top of the frame tabs for some extra lift, but it hits the transmission, so the transmission plate is mounted under the tabs. FFR manual mentions mounting under the tabs if clearance is needed. It also references spacers for a Coyote Build but doesn't mention spacers for any other engine. Should we add more spacers to the engine and transmission mounts, or is it normal on the MK5 for the Oil pan to be slightly below the frame?

[Jeff Kleiner]

How deep is the oil pan from the top of the rail to bottom of the sump. I don't know what BP is putting on but 7.5" is the maximum. If you need to raise the engine you can use hard washers between the motor mounts and engine block (along with equally longer bolts)...BUT, raising the engine will also ultimately affect the sidepipe interaction with the body and chassis as well as hood clearance.

Jeff

[wedel456]

Have a Coupe; however, I had the same problem with my oil pan being 1.5 inches below the frame rail. I had to get a different oil pan that matches @Jeff Klieners statement about 7.5 inches:

Here is the one I got: Canton 15-690 Oil Pan (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-15-690) and with the necessary Oil Pickup (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-15-691)

[Norm B]

I have a Mk4 but ran into the same issue with my Canton road race oil pan. Couldn’t go higher because of the intake manifold and combination of insulator, Sniper, spacer and oval air cleaner that I had use to make the Sniper work with the air cleaner. Made these out of 1” aluminum bar stock to protect the oil pan.
If you don’t have one room to go up and don’t want to replace your oil pan and pick up tube then, maybe you can make something similar to go on the Mk5 frame.
Not the most elegant solution but, judging by the scratches on them, they have saved my oil pan a couple of times.

Norm

[Pete&Scott]

The oil pan is 7.5 inches. The pan is above the frame on the front left side of the lower oil pan by about 1/8 of an inch. The rear of the pan on the left is down about 3/16 of an inch. Spacers added last night to the left side of the engine measure about 3/16 of an inch. If we add another 3/16-inch spacer on the left side of the engine and another 1/4 to 3/8-inch spacer on the transmission mount, that might get the oil pan above the frame. Would 3/8 of spacers on the left side of the engine cause any header/pipe issues? It would level out the engine from side to side. The drive shaft has about 3/8 of an inch of drop from the transmission to the IRS. The current spacer depth on the transmission mount is 1/2 inch.


How deep is the oil pan from the top of the rail to bottom of the sump. I don't know what BP is putting on but 7.5" is the maximum. If you need to raise the engine you can use hard washers between the motor mounts and engine block (along with equally longer bolts)...BUT, raising the engine will also ultimately affect the sidepipe interaction with the body and chassis as well as hood clearance.

Jeff

[rich grsc]

There is no reason the pan isn't level, somethings not correct? Have NEVER had to use spacers to get the engine setting correctly. Do you have the wrong motor mounts?

[Pete&Scott]

I have what FFR sent me. Energy Suspension Engine and transmission mounts, the label on the box says for 302/351W Poly Engine/Transmounts with part number 13083, not sure if the description and part number is from an Energy Suspension or FFR label. The FFR slot on the frame for the engine mount provides for about 1/2 of adjustment but that is not enough to get the engine level. I searched through some very old Forum threads, and several people mentioned adding spacers to engine mounts, so we tried that. Never installed an engine before. Figure it would drop in the slot and we would be done with it, but that hasn't been the case with a lot of the MK5 stuff.


There is no reason the pan isn't level, somethings not correct? Have NEVER had to use spacers to get the engine setting correctly. Do you have the wrong motor mounts?

[PMD24]

Rich's comment registered for me. something is off side to side. Maybe start by verifying that the mounts are identical mirror images of one another and height measurements are identical. Also if the frame mount it somehow off that could cause the problem as well. Verify that the two 4" tubes are level side to side and then measure the frame mounts from the floor.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hasn't been mentioned yet but it IS possible to get the mounts on the wrong sides...

Jeff

[Pete&Scott]

I have an MK5, so no 4-inch tube. I did look at the FFR mount configuration. The top of the driver's side of the mount is 7 inches from the 2-inch frame, and the passenger side is 7.5 inches. Not sure why that difference. That doesn't really help much, though, as the pins on the energy suspension mounts fit into slots on the frame, and they are in different positions, so no way to really compare the measurements of those slots and pins.

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Rich's comment registered for me. something is off side to side. Maybe start by verifying that the mounts are identical mirror images of one another and height measurements are identical. Also if the frame mount it somehow off that could cause the problem as well. Verify that the two 4" tubes are level side to side and then measure the frame mounts from the floor.

[Pete&Scott]

Anything is possible, but I don't think we have the mounts on the wrong side based on the pin configuration of the energy suspension pins and the slots on the MK5 mounts. Nothing on the mounts says anything about left or right side, and the picture in the MK5 manual shows pins above the mount, but I don't think that is an MK5 mount or a 427 engine. See post below for pictures, and maybe you can determine if they on the right side. We did get the oil pan about 1/6th above the frame by adding another 3/8 of an inch of shim on the transmission mount, and we ground off a bit of the transmission plate to get it above the tabs with more than a fingernail of clearance between the plate and the transmission. I left the washer shims on the driver's side of the engine mount to get the engine somewhat level and to get the oil pan up that 1/16 of an inch.


Hasn't been mentioned yet but it IS possible to get the mounts on the wrong sides...

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

....the picture in the MK5 manual shows pins above the mount, but I don't think that is an MK5 mount or a 427 engine. See post below for pictures...

I don't see any pictures but for a Windsor the driver's side has the pin below the bolt. On the passenger side the pin is rearward of the bolt.

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

Here's a close up of my PS Windsor motor mount in the frame.


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[Pete&Scott]

Thanks for the picture, much appreciated. Your mount looks a bit different from mine, but the pin and the bolt are in the same location, so I don't think I have the mounts reversed.

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Just got a call back from FFR and they confirmed the mounts are installed correctly and that shims are occasionally needed and that mine looked fine.



Here's a close up of my PS Windsor motor mount in the frame.


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