MK5: Engine Talk - 302/427/Coyote

[shawrod]

Hello everyone, I am sure this conversation has been run through a number of times but I wanted to start another one for my situation.
I got my Mk5 kit in December and have been working away. However, I haven't decided and ordered my engine. Originally, I felt 427 was the only option I would consider, but now its up in the air... now I am getting stuck in my build because I haven't made this final decision yet.

I had a nice talk with Mike Forte, he is a wizard at all of this! However, he steered me towards a 302 and not the 427/351. He explained there isn't much reason to go 427 unless you are racing... I've also been researching the gen3 Coyote, he sells these as well.

For pricing, I have quotes for $15k on the 302 from Mike, and about $26k for the 427 from BP. The quote on the Coyote was verbal, I think around $21-22k.

Does anyone have suggestions/recommendations about their experience?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Talk to Mike about a 347. Same physical size as a 302 and not a lot more money. Mine dynos at 449 HP so virtually the same as a crate Gen3 Coyote. Lots of experienced owners and drivers like myself feel that is pretty much the sweet spot for these cars.

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

If I were building another car, it would have a 427 LS in it.

https://blueprintengines.com/collections/gm-compatible-ls-427-c-i

From Mild To Wild You Can't Go Wrong!

https://blueprintengines.com/collections/gm-compatible-ls-427-c-i/products/gm-ls-compatible-427-c-i-proseries-engine-800-hp-base-dressed-supercharged-2

[TXeverydayDad]

It comes down to your preference and what you envisioned when you thought of building a F5. Go with your gut feeling. I went modern, with a Gen 4x Coyote. To me, the only downside is you don’t get the ‘real V8’ sound at idle. But it still sounds great.

Edit: adding a video of how my Coyote sounds currently.


https://youtu.be/7U025omuAp0?si=6VRr4Pum1JhOTIcR

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Have you looked at Coyote crate engines from Jeg & others?

[gbranham]

347 is definitely the sweet spot. I've built a MkIII with a 302, and a MkIV with a 427 small block. I love my 427. If I build another, I'd do a high-revving 347. I wouldn't ever build another woth a 302. You get used to the power of a 302 quickly (at least I did), and wanted more power. I build my own engines, because its so much fun.

Greg

[Al_C]

Since this is all about opinions, I'll offer mine: go with a coyote. You won't regret it. Mine is Gen II, but the concept is valid irrespective of generation. While you won't have lots of bling in the engine bay, you will be very happy every time you turn the key and hit the gas. If looks are the priority, go with a SBF. If it's about displacement, then go with the 427. But if you want something that performs really, really well and is easy to live with, go with the coyote. You won't regret it.

[Jim1855]

I have a 289/306 from Forte in my 289 FIA car. It's nice, drives well and on my first 1,000 miles it's sufficient. I bought the car assembled and operational. I want more and will start building for that come spring. Carb & cam to start.

My 427w has 65,000 miles on it between two Superformance cars. This motor is going into my Challenge Car... sometime. It's 440hp at the wheels on a Mustang dyno. This is my "sweet spot".

I'd go with the 427 and learn how to drive it.

Jim

[edwardb]

In the end, just depends on what you want. Old school look and sound our newer tech for drivability (my opinion), warranty, easy cold starts, etc. And still sound great, just different. Everyone comments how good my Gen 3 Coyote powered Coupe sounds. Not going to beat it to death. I've had both and my last builds have been with Coyotes. I'm a self-admitted fan. But I get why it's not for everyone. Two comments FWIW, if you go old school, I agree 347 is a sweet spot for these. My #7750 build had that I liked it a lot. A 351 block makes easy power. But width and height are tight. Some will say Coyotes are complicated to install. My response is most are installing EFI in their builds these days, including the old school motors. There many similarities e.g. fuel pump, fuel lines, wiring, etc. Don't let that aspect sway your opinion. Just my take.

[JimStone]

Like GoDadGo says, don't forget the LS!

Best of both modern and old-school.

Bullet proof EFi, push-rod serviceability, huge aftermarket, interchangeable parts, sounds great, compact size, 100k+ mile reliability, and choose your number for power

Also the winner for dollars per HP

[CW_MI]

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but those that just have to have a 427....if it isn't an old FE motor you're installing , why bother ? The average person looking at a Windsor based 427 isn't going to be able to tell that from a 302, and see the 1.3" added deck height. Not to mention the added expense of a Dart block to make the combination. Last I looked a Dart block is $4500...all for the "427" that looks no different than a 302.

Next, one needs to think about what they are going to do with the car. If ones plan is to put some serious miles on it, making long distance trips, the Coyote seems to be the no brainer choice, along with IRS. You'll basically be driving a current model Mustang, without all the creature comforts. Not saying this can't be done with a pushrod motor, though, it just brings the drivetrain up to a modern level.

If one wants a mild cruiser, with old school simplicity and mild power, the 347 seems to be the best bet. If the power available from a 347 (which maxes out around 500 ish on a stock block) then decisions need to be made, and more money spend on a better block. In a 302 based motor...the 363 is a great combo that can go from mild to wild. And then one can jump to the taller deck Windsor and many other cubic inch combinations can be had up to 460ci.

And then there are other options, not Ford related. Imagination goes a long way. LS, G3 Hemi, 2JZ, Barra (Ford AU)..the sky is the limit.

For my personal build Mk5 build, which will be used as a cars and coffee , occasional cruising, out to dinner type of car, I'm opting for a 500hp multi port injected 347.

These are just my opinions, others may differ. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[TrackDay17]

I struggled with this very question before I ordered my car as I'm sure most people do.
The more I read I kept coming back to the experienced guys around here that say the 347 is "the sweet spot" for these cars if you are going SBF.
It was a toss up for me between that and a Coyote.

I think as long as you build a reliable engine that has good street manners and not a full on race motor you'll be happy no matter what the displacement under the hood is.

I've been lucky enough to have snagged a ride in two local builders cars, one is a 302 with 15 inch wheels and more of an old school look.
The other is a 427W built with a modern look and 18 inch wheels, both are fuel injected.
They are both awesome cars that are plenty fast enough to get a guy in trouble.

I'm more concerned now with trying to build a quality car than how much horsepower I have.

Good luck on your build and engine choice decision.

[RobHartley]

I went with the BP347, but I had it completed by Mike Forte, he put his own front dress (which has a dynamic tensioner on the belt) on it as well as the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 fuel injection, and a TKX transmission. Dyno'd at 433HP at 5800 RPM and 432+LB-FT of torque at 4200 RPM. Mike is a great guy to talk cars with :D

[cv2065]

One of the most frequent questions I got on my last build was "Does it have a 427?". 427 is what is 'expected' to be in this car. The badging, smell and angry lope of a carb'd engine is what gets the eyeballs clicking at car show night. They all gather around waiting for the beast to awaken once the show ends and you're ready to go.

Although you never build for resale, if that is your forte, I'd say either a 427 or a Coyote will bring the most money. Both are different and have different buyers, but each one will pony up the $$$.

All that said, I am a big Godzilla fan and can't wait until Einstein get's his installed. What a looker! An engine that has it all is the LS. I'd love to stuff one of those into the car but would be afraid of the limited buyer pool and ROI once that time came around.

[Aleinsteingenius]

We are still in Florida, avoiding the cold in NY. As soon as we get back, we will attempt to jam the Godzilla into the Mark V.

[gbranham]

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but those that just have to have a 427....if it isn't an old FE motor you're installing , why bother ?.

Because small block engine size and weight, but the displacement of an FE. Oh, and half the price of an FE. Believe or not, some of us build our cars for ourselves, not for earning the interest or respect of car show attendees.

Greg

[cv2065]

Believe or not, some of us build our cars for ourselves, not for earning the interest or respect of car show attendees.

Greg

That's actually the best part for me. Of course, my design is all me and I enjoy the solo wrenching, but I could talk shop with car show attendees for hours. Most can't build one of these, for one reason or another, so I let them enjoy the build through me. If you can't share your journey, then what's the point? :p

[TrackDay17]

Because small block engine size and weight, but the displacement of an FE. Oh, and half the price of an FE. Believe or not, some of us build our cars for ourselves, not for earning the interest or respect of car show attendees.

Greg


95 percent of people will admire your work at a show, the other 5 percent have never picked up a wrench or tried to do something hard but have an opinion on everything.

That's the great thing about these cars IMHO, you can build whatever makes you happy and you can afford and at the end of the day you can say
"I built that" every time you walk in the garage.

[Mike.Bray]

The badging, smell and angry lope of a carb'd engine is what gets the eyeballs clicking at car show night.

The smell is from the carb being out of tune:rolleyes:

225635

[cv2065]

The smell is from the carb being out of tune:rolleyes:

225635

Nah, that's pure bliss Mike. I do have a recording of a sewing machine for the EFI fans though. They like it. :p

[Havranasty]

I went with the 363 SBF from Mike Forte for my 289 build. Looks close to the original 289 but packs a much bigger wallop, at least that is the plan.

225636

[rich grsc]

My little 331 ate a 460 for lunch, and spit the pieces out. :rolleyes: I will take a SBF engine any day over a BBF just because of the weight difference. Trying to throw around that extra weight on a tight road makes a LOT of difference. The Godzilla may make power, but it will be a pig on a tight road course.

I think a lot of people just go to shows, then talk about things they REALLY don't know or understand. Been turning wrenches for over 65 years, I try to know & understand what and why, not just repeat what someone else told me. :)

[Mike.Bray]

Nah, that's pure bliss Mike. I do have a recording of a sewing machine for the EFI fans though. They like it. :p

Like this Singer?


https://youtu.be/9vKnhlyBOWI

[cv2065]

Like this Singer?


https://youtu.be/9vKnhlyBOWI

Just ribbing ya Mike. Looking good! ;)

[gbranham]

My little 331 ate a 460 for lunch, and spit the pieces out. :rolleyes: I will take a SBF engine any day over a BBF just because of the weight difference. Trying to throw around that extra weight on a tight road makes a LOT of difference. The Godzilla may make power, but it will be a pig on a tight road course.

I think a lot of people just go to shows, then talk about things they REALLY don't know or understand. Been turning wrenches for over 65 years, I try to know & understand what and why, not just repeat what someone else told me. :)

Totally agree. I don't even go to car shows anymore. Its always the same cars, tacky sign boards, etc. I just enjoy driving by myself on the winding, empty country roads where I live. Ive logged a thousand miles on my latest build, and Ive only left my little town of 6000 once, and that was to get it inspected for registration.

Greg

[rich grsc]

Greg, if you ever want to stretch your legs, come over to the St. Loius area, St. Charles county and south have roads these cars were made for. :cool: Are you in the Kansas City club? We are affiliated clubs, with common friends. :D MACC, Mid-American Cobra Club

[gbranham]

Greg, if you ever want to stretch your legs, come over to the St. Loius area, St. Charles county and south have roads these cars were made for. :cool: Are you in the Kansas City club? We are affiliated clubs, with common friends. :D MACC, Mid-American Cobra Club

I was a MACC member years ago when I built my MkIII, and showed at World of Wheels a few times with the club...Richard Oben, Carl Mawhirter, etc. Incidentally, Ill be in your neck of the woods this week for work. I have an office in Clayton, MO. Ill make.my obligatory stop at Holman Motorcars...Im sure you've been there. Ridiculous car collection.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nah, that's pure bliss Mike. I do have a recording of a sewing machine for the EFI fans though. They like it. :p

I've had over 100 cars through my shop, everything from 4.6 Mod Motors, Coyotes, FE 427s to just about every variety and displacement SBF Windsors both injected and carbed. Out of all of those absolutely and by far the best sounding one is Rich's stack injected 331. :cool: Second is a 2 way tie between a pair of 347s, one by Smedling with Pro Flow 4 and the other one owner built with Borla stacks. Instantaneous throttle response...and they don't stink! The worst have had carbs or Snipers :(

Jeff

[cv2065]

I've had over 100 cars through my shop, everything from 4.6 Mod Motors, Coyotes, FE 427s to just about every variety and displacement SBF Windsors both injected and carbed. Out of all of those absolutely and by far the best sounding one is Rich's stack injected 331. :cool: Second is a 2 way tie between a pair of 347s, one by Smedling with Pro Flow 4 and the other one owner built with Borla stacks. Instantaneous throttle response...and they don't stink! The worst have had carbs or Snipers :(

Jeff

I'm sure you've seen a few come through the shop Jeff! I think engine sound is like musical taste; it just depends on what you like. Although I now have Gasn pipes, I think I still prefer the sound of my old FFR ones, even though some find them too harsh or loud. I love watching first start videos, and most of the time I can tell whether they are pushrod or modular, carb'd or fuel injected, just by the sound without even seeing the engine. The only caveat to that would be an LS engine. It's hard to tell sometimes.

I may add EFI one day, as it's a relatively cheap upgrade, but as long as my eyeballs aren't burning, the slight hint of fuel reminds me of the motor pool back in my Marine Corps days, and the sound is NICE!!! :p

[gbranham]

Those who can...EFI. The rest...carb. Sorry, not sorry. Flame on...:)

Greg

[cv2065]

Those who can...EFI. The rest...carb. Sorry, not sorry. Flame on...:)

Greg

LOL… It’s actually the other way around. Might I interest you in an EV conversion kit? Self drive module and everything.;)

[Myron Nelson]

I have really enjoyed this thread. Would someone kindly explain a couple of the acronyms used like “FE” “SBF” etc. Asking for a friend who is new to the community

[Jim Doak]

FE = old style Ford big block. 390, 427, 428, etc.

SBF = small block Ford. 260, 289, 302.

A 351 Windsor can also be lumped into the SBF category, they're the ones that get bored and stroked to 427.

[gbranham]

LOL… It’s actually the other way around. Might I interest you in an EV conversion kit? Self drive module and everything.;)

Says the guy who is fixated on 60s carbureted technology. And you're somehow suggesting that carb technology is more advanced than EFI? Ok...

[cv2065]

Says the guy who is fixated on 60s carbureted technology. And you're somehow suggesting that carb technology is more advanced than EFI? Ok...

Never said it was more advanced, but it is harder to configure than a computer. And today's carbs are more improved than 60 years ago. Sound better than a computer too in pushrod engines. Amazingly enough, they still have 35% market share and growing in sales volume year over year. I'll probably hit the EZ button one of these days....just not today. Until then...you can always get one of these. ;)

https://www.superformance.com/news-article/superformance-mkiii-e-electric-cobra-first-drive-more-proof-evs-can-be-badass

[Jim1855]

An EV Cobra would be a lot like a rattlesnake w/o rattles. You wouldn't know when it was going to strike.

No thanks!

And I'll stick to my carbs.

Jim

[michael everson]

Coyote all the way. They don't smoke, don't leak idle perfect and like driving a Camry if you keep your foot out of it. Modern tech for the win. If you worried about the look keep the hood closed.
Mike

[Mike.Bray]

Sound better than a computer too in pushrod engines. Amazingly enough, they still have 35% market share and growing in sales volume year over year. [/url]

Just to be clear, the sound an engine makes comes from combustion, you know air, fuel & spark, and the type of exhaust system on the engine. The only way a carb'd engine sounds different from an EFI engine is from being out of tune. Out of tune = less efficiency and less power. A few strokes on a keyboard and I can throw my EFI stack injected engine out of tune and make it sound crappy with my eyes watering. But no thanks, I'll stay at maximum efficiency and power along with my deep throaty sound.

Air, fuel, spark

35% market share of what? 0% of OEMs for the past 30 years or so. Maybe 5% of professional racing series if even that much.

225669

[OB6]

I can't help but suggest the LS3 as an option. Size of a SBF, modern like the Coyote with pushrod sound, and a nice flat torque curve. However it won't win you any points with the car show trolls if that matters to you.

[Mike.Bray]

Might I interest you in an EV conversion kit? Self drive module and everything.;)

A couple of years ago there was a display at the Autorama with an EV Cobra. My wife and I would watch as people came up to see the Cobra and as soon as they saw it was electric make some remark and walk away. To say it wasn't a popular idea is an understatement.

If someone steals your Tesla is it an Edison?

[Aleinsteingenius]

Using my giant math brain, I figured the extra 150 lbs of the Godzilla in the front will be offset by the extra 150 lbs of my giant self in the back...lol.

[cv2065]

Just to be clear, the sound an engine makes comes from combustion, you know air, fuel & spark, and the type of exhaust system on the engine. The only way a carb'd engine sounds different from an EFI engine is from being out of tune. Out of tune = less efficiency and less power. A few strokes on a keyboard and I can throw my EFI stack injected engine out of tune and make it sound crappy with my eyes watering. But no thanks, I'll stay at maximum efficiency and power along with my deep throaty sound.

Air, fuel, spark

35% market share of what? 0% of OEMs for the past 30 years or so. Maybe 5% of professional racing series if even that much.

225669

Carbs do create a rougher, more uneven idle as they don't meter the fuel with the same precision as EFI, which gives it a choppier idle, more audible cam overlap and more 'lope'. Doesn't mean it's out of tune, just not as civilized as EFI. Carbs also sit right on top of the intake which gives a more audible venturi sound when you put your foot into it. All in all, this produces a rawer, more mechanical exhaust note.

EFI systems like Pro Flo are engineered for refinement and noise control. Airflow is more consistent. Timing is stabilized and fueling is corrected, especially at idle. This reduces the lope that we so love with carbureted engines. Sure, you could tap on your computer to make it misbehave, but then what's the point of your expensive, civilized setup?

The 35% market share comes from the vintage and classic car market as well as off road vehicles. Other dominating segments are agricultural and construction. Recreational vehicles, power sports and motorcycles are using them as well, especially in the Asian/Pacific market. Simplicity and low cost are the drivers. Global market size continues to grow from 2.84 billion in 2025 to a projected 4 billion in 2035. Lots of new tech as well. Eco-friendly carbs, hybrid carbs, 'smart' carbs and customized for aftermarket applications. Take a trip over to Summit. They have over 700 listings of carburetor skus listed on their site.

[cv2065]

I can't help but suggest the LS3 as an option. Size of a SBF, modern like the Coyote with pushrod sound, and a nice flat torque curve. However it won't win you any points with the car show trolls if that matters to you.

Agreed. The LS3 is the monster of both worlds.

[Jeff Kleiner]

... Take a trip over to Summit. They have over 700 listings of carburetor skus listed on their site.

Maybe because it takes that many to find one that actually works well.

Here, chew on this (actually surprised that Mike hasn't posted it yet!)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225675&d=1722274213

Sorry Chad, just messin' with you :p

Jeff

225675

[cv2065]

Maybe because it takes that many to find one that actually works well.

Here, chew on this (actually surprised that Mike hasn't posted it yet!)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225675&d=1722274213

Sorry Chad, just messin' with you :p

Jeff

225675

LOL Jeff....I do have family in Tennessee. Just sayin'....:p

[tnt_motorsports]

I've had over 100 cars through my shop, everything from 4.6 Mod Motors, Coyotes, FE 427s to just about every variety and displacement SBF Windsors both injected and carbed. Out of all of those absolutely and by far the best sounding one is Rich's stack injected 331. :cool: Second is a 2 way tie between a pair of 347s, one by Smedling with Pro Flow 4 and the other one owner built with Borla stacks. Instantaneous throttle response...and they don't stink! The worst have had carbs or Snipers :(

Jeff

Jeff your post got me excited then sad! I've ordered a 427 SBF from Smeding Performance but I elected to use a Sniper 2 to get a more traditional under hood look without the Proflow fuel rails. I'm excited for it to arrive around the end of March.

I will say that they have been a real pleasure to work with. They have answered all my questions and even offered some solutions like the front drive system.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff your post got me excited then sad! I've ordered a 427 SBF from Smeding Performance but I elected to use a Sniper 2 to get a more traditional under hood look without the Proflow fuel rails. I'm excited for it to arrive around the end of March.

I will say that they have been a real pleasure to work with. They have answered all my questions and even offered some solutions like the front drive system.

From what I’ve heard the 2 is a big improvement over the 1. I have a car here now that has a 347 with a Sniper 2 and just what I can tell from moving it in/out/around the shop it seems to run well—-better than many of the Sniper 1 cars I’ve had.

Jeff

[Rebostar]

I went with the 427W as I love the build, the sound, and the power. Having built a 427 FE powered Thunderbolt I REALLY wanted that 427 badge!
In addition I built a 1970 Cougar and stuffed a 427FE into it, though they never came from the factory with one. Its making about 425 HP at about 3500 lbs.
I Used the Scat stroker kit for the 427W and its putting out about 500 HP in a 2200lb car. I also Have a 2018 Mustang GT that came with a Coyote puting out 465 HP that I installed the Stage 2 Roush Supercharger into that boosted the HP to 750 in a 4000 lb car. I'm currently building a 2700 LB Studebaker Silverhawk with a 331 stroker in it hat I expect to get 300 HP out of. The Cobra with the 427W wins the Power to wieght ratio hands down.
The Cobra is about power and handling period! Power to weight is everything!

Happy Trails

22567922568022568122568222568322568422568522568622 5687225688

[Aleinsteingenius]

I am going with this. It should be enough.
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[Mike.Bray]

Maybe because it takes that many to find one that actually works well.

Here, chew on this (actually surprised that Mike hasn't posted it yet!)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225675&d=1722274213

Sorry Chad, just messin' with you :p

Jeff

225675

It was on my list to post Jeff but got distracted by the Daytona 500 wreckfest.

Thanks for covering for me!

[Mike.Bray]

Jeff your post got me excited then sad! I've ordered a 427 SBF from Smeding Performance but I elected to use a Sniper 2 to get a more traditional under hood look without the Proflow fuel rails. I'm excited for it to arrive around the end of March.

I will say that they have been a real pleasure to work with. They have answered all my questions and even offered some solutions like the front drive system.

I will second Smeding! I ordered a 427 SBC short block from them for my Camaro and they are first class to deal with. To top it off, crating and shipping to my office in Dallas with a dock was only $100. And it was a totally enclosed very heavy crate.

My experience has been the same as yours working with them, they are always there to answer questions and offer advice. Great company to deal with.

You'll be good with the Sniper 2, it fixes a lot of the issues with the Sniper 1. Get the hyper spark so you have timing control also.

[Mike.Bray]

Carbs do create a rougher, more uneven idle as they don't meter the fuel with the same precision as EFI. Doesn't mean it's out of tune

Pretty sure that's an oxymoron:rolleyes:

[flight_83]

I vote salvaged Coyote, got my 60k mile coyote for $4k. Helps when your friend runs a business salvaging Mustangs though haha.

[tnt_motorsports]

I will second Smeding! I ordered a 427 SBC short block from them for my Camaro and they are first class to deal with. To top it off, crating and shipping to my office in Dallas with a dock was only $100. And it was a totally enclosed very heavy crate.

My experience has been the same as yours working with them, they are always there to answer questions and offer advice. Great company to deal with.

You'll be good with the Sniper 2, it fixes a lot of the issues with the Sniper 1. Get the hyper spark so you have timing control also.

Already in my pile of parts Mike waiting for the weather to warm up! I suppose I could change the distributor gear while I'm waiting. Unfortunately that would require me getting my honey-do list done. ��

[rich grsc]

Carbs do create a rougher, more uneven idle as they don't meter the fuel with the same precision as EFI, which gives it a choppier idle, more audible cam overlap and more 'lope'. Doesn't mean it's out of tune, just not as civilized as EFI. Carbs also sit right on top of the intake which gives a more audible venturi sound when you put your foot into it. All in all, this produces a rawer, more mechanical exhaust note.



.

Thats the biggest load of horse manure I've seen in awhile

[rich grsc]

Pretty sure that's an oxymoron:rolleyes:
And you would be correct

[GoDadGo]

Maybe because it takes that many to find one that actually works well.

Here, chew on this (actually surprised that Mike hasn't posted it yet!)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=225675&d=1722274213

Sorry Chad, just messin' with you :p

Jeff

225675

I guess I'm just luckier than most folks!

AVS 800 with dual feed line & Baker Pro/Cam mechanical pump

https://youtu.be/GpqvBPwIbzI

Yes, I was in 2nd gear when I hit the gas when I was behind the first truck.

https://shop.bakerengineering.com/products/7-5-psi-pro-cam-small-block-chevy-mechanical-fuel-pump

Baker makes pumps for Ford Windsor style engines too.

https://shop.bakerengineering.com/collections/small-block-ford-fuel-pump

[cv2065]

Pretty sure that's an oxymoron:rolleyes:

Nah, just means that standards vary. You like tame, I like wild. Simple as that. :D EFI was created as a green initiative for fuel efficiency and emissions control. Bang for the buck....can't beat a carb.

[AA-ron]

Here's my 2 cents (actually like 1.5 cents).
I finished my car a few years back and I ended up going with Mike Forte's suggestion and went with a 302 w/T5. I was thinking I wanted more power but after riding in a car with a Gen 3 Coyote, I couldn't imagine being able to use all that power. Now it's 3 years and 10k miles later and I'm still loving my choice with the 302. First, as it's been said thousands of times before, 358 HP (dyno) from that 302 is enough to scare you in a 2200 pound car. However its not so much where you fear for your life every time you put your foot well into the pedal. I like the fact that I can "get on it" and the rear end stays where it's supposed to. With that said, first gear still spins them at will, and shifting into second still needs to be done respectfully. And on colder days, even in 2nd, I've had the wheels break as it got into it's powerband (scared the crap out of me). I think its fair to say that 0-60 times are probably about the same between my engine setup and ones with more HP (someone fact check that for me please).
Lastly the 302 allows you to go with a T5, and I can't imagine a better shifting transmission.
I'm likely one of the less experienced owners on this forum, so please take my opinion as a one from a newbie. I'm also fairly timid behind the wheel, so I can see why someone with more experience (and guts) might like more HP.

[AA-ron]

Here's my 2 cents (actually like 1.5 cents).
I finished my car a few years back and I ended up going with Mike Forte's suggestion and went with a 302 w/T5. I was thinking I wanted more power but after riding in a car with a Gen 3 Coyote, I couldn't imagine being able to use all that power. Now it's 3 years and 10k miles later and I'm still loving my choice with the 302. First, as it's been said thousands of times before, 358 HP (dyno) from that 302 is enough to scare you in a 2200 pound car. However its not so much where you fear for your life every time you put your foot well into the pedal. I like the fact that I can "get on it" and the rear end stays where it's supposed to. With that said, first gear still spins them at will, and shifting into second still needs to be done respectfully. And on colder days, even in 2nd, I've had the wheels break as it got into it's powerband (scared the crap out of me). I think its fair to say that 0-60 times are probably about the same between my engine setup and ones with more HP (someone fact check that for me please).
Lastly the 302 allows you to go with a T5, and I can't imagine a better shifting transmission.
I'm likely one of the less experienced owners on this forum, so please take my opinion as a one from a newbie. I'm also fairly timid behind the wheel, so I can see why someone with more experience (and guts) might like more HP.

[rich grsc]

For a 1st time owner, that is a great place to start, exactly what I did, actually a bone stock 5.0 right out of a donor car. In fact I often recommend it, these cars are unforgiving if you have no experience. I have moved up to a 400hp 331, now it's time to move up again, a low to mid 500hp is being planed. Do I need it, no, but I learned enough that I feel I can safely use most of it, these are fun cars, a hobby

[Mike.Bray]

For a 1st time owner, that is a great place to start, exactly what I did, actually a bone stock 5.0 right out of a donor car. In fact I often recommend it, these cars are unforgiving if you have no experience. I have moved up to a 400hp 331, now it's time to move up again, a low to mid 500hp is being planed. Do I need it, no, but I learned enough that I feel I can safely use most of it, these are fun cars, a hobby

Are you going to install a carb so it sounds cool Rich? :D:D:cool:

[GoDadGo]

For a 1st time owner, that is a great place to start, exactly what I did, actually a bone stock 5.0 right out of a donor car. In fact I often recommend it, these cars are unforgiving if you have no experience. I have moved up to a 400hp 331, now it's time to move up again, a low to mid 500hp is being planed. Do I need it, no, but I learned enough that I feel I can safely use most of it, these are fun cars, a hobby

Hey Rich,

My Redbone Roadster makes 465 HP at 6000 RPM and 465 TQ at 5200 RPM.
If I spin it up to 6500, it makes 505 HP, but the torque starts to fall off.
I think if you built a 363 SBF using a Dart Block you'd love it.
The larger 4.125" bore unshrouds the intake valves.
The shorter 3.4" stroke would make it spin up faster than my 383 that has a 3.75" stroke.

Steve

[rich grsc]

Are you going to install a carb so it sounds cool Rich? :D:D:cool:

Bite your tongue mike. :rolleyes: my carb monkey died, got lead poisoning.....besides kinda hard to bolt 8 carbs on an engine


Hey Rich,

My Redbone Roadster makes 465 HP at 6000 RPM and 465 TQ at 5200 RPM.
If I spin it up to 6500, it makes 505 HP, but the torque starts to fall off.
I think if you built a 363 SBF using a Dart Block you'd love it.
The larger 4.125" bore unshrouds the intake valves.
The shorter 3.4" stroke would make it spin up faster than my 383 that has a 3.75" stroke.

Steve
Way ahead of you, big bore 347. Ford block setting in the garage, waiting for a rotating assembly

[CW_MI]

Hey Rich,

My Redbone Roadster makes 465 HP at 6000 RPM and 465 TQ at 5200 RPM.
If I spin it up to 6500, it makes 505 HP, but the torque starts to fall off.
I think if you built a 363 SBF using a Dart Block you'd love it.
The larger 4.125" bore unshrouds the intake valves.
The shorter 3.4" stroke would make it spin up faster than my 383 that has a 3.75" stroke.

Steve

Yep, the 363 SBF is a pretty sweet package. Fellow forum member 8secDuster went with one in his coupe build and it made some pretty good power (535 HP and 472 ft-lb of torque), and that was with the not greatest dyno headers. It should be even better with the GasN inch and three quarters tube ones in the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?50295-8secDuster-s-Type-65-Coupe&p=594426&viewfull=1#post594426

[Mike.Bray]

I'm off today for President's Day and I've been in the garage doing a few things. This thread has got me to thinking about how I can change the anemic sound of my Cobra to something more cool. I really don't want to install a vintage mechanical analog carburetor even though I know I would love the eye watering experience it would give me. Thought about changing to a points distributor if I can find one. Then it hit me. I'm installing a bad ball bearing in my alternator so that it will sound like a Roots blower. Can't think of anything more cool sounding than that!

Back to the garage.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I'm off today for President's Day and I've been in the garage doing a few things. This thread has got me to thinking about how I can change the anemic sound of my Cobra to something more cool. I really don't want to install a vintage mechanical analog carburetor even though I know I would love the eye watering experience it would give me. Thought about changing to a points distributor if I can find one. Then it hit me. I'm installing a bad ball bearing in my alternator so that it will sound like a Roots blower. Can't think of anything more cool sounding than that!

Back to the garage.

Toggle switch in that cockpit that grounds a couple of plug wires. Flip it on when you roll into the Saturday morning Cars & Coffee and you can have that snotty rough idle and eye watering exhaust then turn it off when you leave and you’ll be able to restore the drivability and throttle response. It’s a “Win-Win” :D

And regarding that blower sound…I’d wager that at least 90% of the gear drives sold over the years were purchased for the sound, not cam timing accuracy. Them folks are what we call “posers” ;)

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Now wait a minute Jeff, I got one of those in the Summit shopping cart. Are you saying I won't get an extra 50 hp, and the cool whine????:rolleyes:

[BEAR-AvHistory]

How about a "cars & coffee" tune in a hand held you can load & unload quickly. Listen to "I love the smell of 100 octane in the morning." Below. Most Coyotes need a tune when put in the Cobra so its an easy addon

[cv2065]

Are you going to install a carb so it sounds cool Rich? :D:D:cool:

And it can be yours for the low low, low price of $2200 plus tax. Minus the laptop of course. :p

https://hosting.photobucket.com/239a0216-6f9e-4cc9-a0be-2ec53fb3e15d/4493b3e0-21e9-4696-8f9a-709c12bfd8b2.png?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/239a0216-6f9e-4cc9-a0be-2ec53fb3e15d/4493b3e0-21e9-4696-8f9a-709c12bfd8b2.png?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

[rich grsc]

Well I didn't think you'd get rid of your ????

[F500guy]

To get back on track for this post, I went with the 427 for the name sake and to put the badge on and I thought 500+ HP would be great fun. I also went with a carb for some old school "hobby" time fun. Takes a little bit of effort or pay someone to tune the carb, but I am happy with it, the 2 minute warm up in the garage can bring tears to your eyes, but they are tears of "JOY"!

Seriously, if it was expected to be a MORE daily driver, especially in colder or more often wet weather, I would have done the coyote or the 347 FI for easy start/warmup and go.

[rich grsc]

Idling a carbed engine for 2 minutes is not a great idea.

[OB6]

Idling a carbed engine for 2 minutes is not a great idea.

Why? I ask out of ignorance because I know nothing about carbs, other than ethanol destroys them in my lawn equipment.

[rich grsc]

A cold carbed engine at idle is running extremely rich, which means the rings may not have enough oil left on the cylinder wall to prevent wear. You don't want to 'wash off' the cylinder walls

[Its Bruce]

I can't help but suggest the LS3 as an option. Size of a SBF, modern like the Coyote with pushrod sound, and a nice flat torque curve. However it won't win you any points with the car show trolls if that matters to you.

I threw one stone and hit 2 birds with a 427 stroker LS3. I've been known to not pop the hood and say it's just an ol' pushrod 427...

[Mike.Bray]

A cold carbed engine at idle is running extremely rich, which means the rings may not have enough oil left on the cylinder wall to prevent wear. You don't want to 'wash off' the cylinder walls

It's also not doing the plugs any good. Or your eyes.

[rich grsc]

Just looking at a carb hurts my eyes. :rolleyes: ;)

[Rebostar]

I have a supercharged, fuel injected, overhead cam, computer controlled Ford. Its fast, convienent, low low maintenance. But thats what I expect from a modern car. I built the 1965 replica to be what was around when I was in high school. The car I drooled over in study hall. the car I could never afford if it were not for FFR. I WANT to set the timeing, I WANT to adjust the carb. I WANT my eyes to water. Because thats what owning a Cobra in 1965 was all about.

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[GoDadGo]

I Love This Forum Thread!

[Jim1855]

I'm often a little slow and don't understand what seems obvious to others. So, I'll ask.

Does a cold engine & carb modify the A/F ratio? Maybe I've missed this. I know that when I start my carb'd motors I do so with 1-pump and then they start almost immediately. I do need to tend to them for the first minute or so and then they idle on their own.

Jim

[GoDadGo]

A cold carbed engine at idle is running extremely rich, which means the rings may not have enough oil left on the cylinder wall to prevent wear. You don't want to 'wash off' the cylinder walls

I guess that means I need to punch mine out another .30 over or maybe out to 4.125" and get a Sniper System.

[Presdough]

Those who can...EFI. The rest...carb. Sorry, not sorry. Flame on...:)

Greg

My 408W began life with a MassFlow injection system, but it laid down after 149 miles. They were not very helpful and no longer serviced the digital/analog converter. I taught high school Automotive Technology at the time and challenged my students to design and build a systemwith off the shelf and wrecking yard parts. It dynoed at 545 HP and is still running strong after 7500 miles.

[TrackDay17]

I am going with this. It should be enough.
225696

That thing will be enough even if you're missing a couple of plug wires !
I'm looking forward to hearing that monster for the first time.

I remember some movie I watched long ago and the one line I remember reminds me of your engine choice.

"If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly !"

[Mike.Bray]

I WANT to set the timeing, I WANT to adjust the carb. I WANT my eyes to water. Because thats what owning a Cobra in 1965 was all about.

That all brings back very bad memories from when I was young and broke. Getting in my truck at 6am in the dead of winter to go to work and hoping it starts because I literally could not afford to miss. Pulling off of the freeway and having it die at the light because the float stuck. Working overtime to get enough money to have an actual mechanic rebuild the old Q-Jet for me. Trying to figure out how to replace points. Replacing plugs every 10-12k miles when I could have used that money for other things like diapers. Replacing the generator on a freezing night.

No, I don't look back with nostalgia at all. I just see crap parts and a lot of problems I had to deal with that I don't want to deal with these days.

[Mike.Bray]

Does a cold engine & carb modify the A/F ratio? Maybe I've missed this. I know that when I start my carb'd motors I do so with 1-pump and then they start almost immediately. I do need to tend to them for the first minute or so and then they idle on their own.

A cold engine requires a richer A/F ratio. Carbs do this with a choke, a mechanical blade that "chokes" air to it. EFI does this by enrichening the fuel.

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[rich grsc]

I WANT to set the timeing, I WANT to adjust the carb. I WANT my eyes to water. Because thats what owning a Cobra in 1965 was all about.

225757225758

I think you totally missed the reason and idea of a Cobra, then and now. That was the things you HAD TO DO to own and drive a Cobra. The purpose was to drive the car hard, fast and to win, not work on it. I guarantee Shelby never said, "oh I want to spend my time & money working on a car"

[cv2065]

I think you totally missed the reason and idea of a Cobra, then and now. That was the things you HAD TO DO to own and drive a Cobra. The purpose was to drive the car hard, fast and to win, not work on it. I guarantee Shelby never said, "oh I want to spend my time & money working on a car"

Shelby is irrelevant. These aren't original cobras, they are replicas. We build them to our own liking and expectations. To say that someone is missing the point with their own design and idea of what this car 'should' be goes against the grain of building them in the first place.

[J R Jones]

Shelby is irrelevant. These aren't original cobras, they are replicas. We build them to our own liking and expectations. To say that someone is missing the point with their own design and idea of what this car 'should' be goes against the grain of building them in the first place.

Yeah, home built replicas are personal ambition. If Carroll Shelby is relevant, consider this:
During his international racing career Carroll Shelby drove the fastest and most expensive sports cars of the day. Although obviously fast, the Ferraris, Maserati's, Aston Martins and Jaguars were very expensive and featured very complex engines.
Shelby was impressed by the speed of these sports cars, but not the unreliable engines that required constant maintenance and repair. With this idea in mind, he wondered why no one in the United States built a sports car that offered European handling and balance with an American V-8 engine that could be easily serviced at any car dealership or independent garage. He began to think of building such a sports car and selling it for half the price of those from European marques.
Shelby was a development guy first. Then Shelby was a salesman. The rest is history.
jim

[rich grsc]

Shelby is irrelevant. These aren't original cobras, they are replicas. We build them to our own liking and expectations. To say that someone is missing the point with their own design and idea of what this car 'should' be goes against the grain of building them in the first place.
READ his post, he said "OWNING A COBRA IN 1965". I said NOTHING about building or owning a replica

[F500guy]

A cold carbed engine at idle is running extremely rich, which means the rings may not have enough oil left on the cylinder wall to prevent wear. You don't want to 'wash off' the cylinder walls

OK, I will bite, how do you magically warm up a ICE without idling...??? I don't have a choke on mine, so I have to fiddle with the gas, but engines have been warming up for a long time at idle whether Carb'ed or FI with an enriched fuel mixture.

[J R Jones]

OK, I will bite, how do you magically warm up a ICE without idling...??? I don't have a choke on mine, so I have to fiddle with the gas, but engines have been warming up for a long time at idle whether Carb'ed or FI with an enriched fuel mixture.

F500, Rhetorical comment acknowledged.
As many here realize choke loading and unloading has been done several ways, some better that others. That technology provides an appropriate enriched mixture, not too rich and not too lean. Some are better than others but many rely on the operator to unload the choke as necessary with a tap of the throttle; supervised operation. Not too much to ask and if ignored the mixture becomes too rich, running quality and idle speed suffers.
In proportion, cold start and warm-up represent a minor amount of light load accumulated running time.
I could tell you an interesting motorcycle racing story about intensionally enriching the fuel mixture to win a race, but Rich has been clear how much he dislikes me mentioning motorcycles on this forum. Nothing to be learned or entertaining in that topic.
jim

[rich grsc]

The thing is, you don't need to set and idle to warm up then engine. Start and go, the engine will warm up quickly has you drive. Just don't run it hard till you see the coolant temp is near normal. Unless the temp is in the teens, I don't set and idle, even then only a short bit

[JMD]

Carbs do create a rougher, more uneven idle as they don't meter the fuel with the same precision as EFI, which gives it a choppier idle, more audible cam overlap and more 'lope'. Doesn't mean it's out of tune, just not as civilized as EFI. Carbs also sit right on top of the intake which gives a more audible venturi sound when you put your foot into it. All in all, this produces a rawer, more mechanical exhaust note.

EFI systems like Pro Flo are engineered for refinement and noise control. Airflow is more consistent. Timing is stabilized and fueling is corrected, especially at idle. This reduces the lope that we so love with carbureted engines. Sure, you could tap on your computer to make it misbehave, but then what's the point of your expensive, civilized setup?

Just FYI, my Sniper EFI 302 actually has a similar idle to a carb'd engine. The secret: I don't have spark control. Gives it a nice hunt/lope at idle. Without the hyperspark, it's basically an electronic carb with closed loop capability and easy tunability. It acts and looks the part of an old school carb'd setup, but only in the best ways. I kind of love it. ;)

[JMD]

Jeff your post got me excited then sad! I've ordered a 427 SBF from Smeding Performance but I elected to use a Sniper 2 to get a more traditional under hood look without the Proflow fuel rails. I'm excited for it to arrive around the end of March.

I will say that they have been a real pleasure to work with. They have answered all my questions and even offered some solutions like the front drive system.

I've put about 1400 miles on my Sniper 2 equipped 302 and love it. Definitely preserves the old school vibe without the headache of living with a carb. Just FYI. ;)

Getting back to the original topic, what engine you choose really depends on what you want to do with the car. I wanted something quick that looked like a classic but had all modern technology and drivability. I went with the 302 for several reasons.

1) Weight. The 289/302/331/347/363 all use the smaller, lighter block. I wanted to keep it light for good handling. How the cars feels and handles it as important to me as how fast it goes.
2) Power. The performance metrics I enjoy most in a fun street car are around 4 sec 0-60 and ~12 sec in the 1/4 mile. The 302 gets me there. Faster is always fun, but I wanted it to be a fun car I could kick around a bit without feeling like it wants to kill me. I've found that it's more fun to drive a slower car fast than a faster car slow. With this engine it will light tires up anywhere below 60 mph, but I can still be enthusiastic with the throttle. It's a 'fun' fast, not 'scary' fast. I would have been happy with a 347 as well, and every now and then I would like another 50hp or so...but the car really can't put down any more power than I've already got until you get over highway speeds anyway.
3) Sound. I much prefer the sound of a pushrod engine in these cars. The idle and sound just fits the car so much better than a mod motor, IMO.
4) Space. I love the ease of access and serviceability with the smaller 302 block. No busting knuckles or needing to pull the engine to service or maintain anything.
5) Drivability. I wanted to drive it as much as possible, around town...wherever. For me this ruled out something with a radical cam. They sound great, but living with them stinks (in more ways than one). Starting, idling, any kind of driving at low rpm is not enjoyable with too much cam. The Coyote is one of the best engines to live with in a driver, but see points 3&4.

I've been super happy with my BP 302 with Sniper 2 combo. It really ticks all the boxes for me. If I did it all over again I may go for the 347, but I only feel that way about 2% of the time. This engine does fit the bill for what I wanted. But the key is to know what you really want out of the car before choosing an engine. Bigger isn't always better. I used to have a '69 Camaro with a blown 383 that put 575hp to the ground...and this car with the 302 is much more enjoyable to drive than that was.

[Rebostar]

I think you totally missed the reason and idea of a Cobra, then and now. That was the things you HAD TO DO to own and drive a Cobra. The purpose was to drive the car hard, fast and to win, not work on it. I guarantee Shelby never said, "oh I want to spend my time & money working on a car"

Not at all. I built a 1964 Fairlane into a Thunderbolt. A "tribute" one would say. I made it as close to the origonals as I could. Hence it had a 1964 date coded 427 FE. I installed an origonal dual point distributor. It had dual Holley 600 CFM carbs with an origonal style cast air bonnet. It had a 4 speed toploader pushing a 9" rearend with 398 gears. It was not an exact copy of a Thunderbolt , but as close as I could make it with the resorces at hand. Because I wanted one and did not have a quarter million dollars laying around. So I built the Thunderbolt as a tribute to the guys that built and ran them succesfully in the mid sixties. Yea I could have made it faster with a supercharger or fuel injection or a racing suspension, but then it would not have reflected the 1964 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt that won the 1964 NHRA Season Crown.
I did the same with the Cobra. I know what the point of the Cobra was about. You know nothing about me or what I know or dont know. I wanted to keep MY Cobra close to the origonal but also add my personal touches to it like eveyone else on this forum.
I've been in in aviation my whole life. As an A&P Mechanic with an Inspection Authorization and a Privet Pilots Licence, so I added an "aviation" theme to it. I also installed a Ford 9" Rear end rather than the 8.8 FFR recommended one, niether of which were in the origonal Cobras. But I built my Cobra for me, with lots of custom touches and I put a Holley carb on it because thats what most of them had back in the day, period!

Happy Trails.

[cv2065]

Just FYI, my Sniper EFI 302 actually has a similar idle to a carb'd engine. The secret: I don't have spark control. Gives it a nice hunt/lope at idle. Without the hyperspark, it's basically an electronic carb with closed loop capability and easy tunability. It acts and looks the part of an old school carb'd setup, but only in the best ways. I kind of love it. ;)

I think with fuel only mode, you lose all timing control benefits of the ECU but it will still meter the fuel and maintain AFR corrections, giving the smooth idle. But as long as you love it, that's all that matters! ;)

[JMD]

I think with fuel only mode, you lose all timing control benefits of the ECU but it will still meter the fuel and maintain AFR corrections, giving the smooth idle. But as long as you love it, that's all that matters! ;)

You are correct, but it does not automatically adjust the spark to maintain as smooth an idle and you can hear the difference. It is not what most would think of as EFI smooth. Still hunts and lopes a bit even with fuel control, which doesn’t do nearly as good of a job smoothing idle as spark control does.

[ProfessorB]

Not at all. I built a 1964 Fairlane into a Thunderbolt. A "tribute" one would say. I made it as close to the origonals as I could. Hence it had a 1964 date coded 427 FE. I installed an origonal dual point distributor. It had dual Holley 600 CFM carbs with an origonal style cast air bonnet. It had a 4 speed toploader pushing a 9" rearend with 398 gears. It was not an exact copy of a Thunderbolt , but as close as I could make it with the resorces at hand. Because I wanted one and did not have a quarter million dollars laying around. So I built the Thunderbolt as a tribute to the guys that built and ran them succesfully in the mid sixties. Yea I could have made it faster with a supercharger or fuel injection or a racing suspension, but then it would not have reflected the 1964 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt that won the 1964 NHRA Season Crown.
I did the same with the Cobra. I know what the point of the Cobra was about. You know nothing about me or what I know or dont know. I wanted to keep MY Cobra close to the origonal but also add my personal touches to it like eveyone else on this forum.
I've been in in aviation my whole life. As an A&P Mechanic with an Inspection Authorization and a Privet Pilots Licence, so I added an "aviation" theme to it. I also installed a Ford 9" Rear end rather than the 8.8 FFR recommended one, niether of which were in the origonal Cobras. But I built my Cobra for me, with lots of custom touches and I put a Holley carb on it because thats what most of them had back in the day, period!

Happy Trails.

I saw pics of your Thunderbolt tribute in another thread and LOVED it. Especially the cast intake! (I always called it the "headlight intake system" when I was a kid :) ) BEAUTIFUL car.

[Mike.Bray]

Just FYI, my Sniper EFI 302 actually has a similar idle to a carb'd engine. The secret: I don't have spark control. Gives it a nice hunt/lope at idle. Without the hyperspark, it's basically an electronic carb with closed loop capability and easy tunability. It acts and looks the part of an old school carb'd setup, but only in the best ways. I kind of love it. ;)

TBH I never really thought about controlling the timing with the ECU. I've built a few engines with aftermarket EFI starting with the old Accel/DFI systems back in the 90's (DOS based software). My Factory Five is the first I've done with timing control and now I would never do another without. Like anything, going from analog to digital is such an advance in controllability. I've not done anything very tricky with my spark control but I certainly could. One advantage is it will never change.

225889

225890

I bought this old mechanical calculator for my grandson the other day. We've figured out how to use it and it's very interesting but I'm keeping my handy TI scientific model:cool: He does like the idea that his school only has a "no electronics" policy so he thinks he can use it on his math tests.

225891

This thread has had me thinking about my life with cars. I built my first "from the ground up" car in 1983-84, a 1928 Ford Model A sedan. At the time it was 56 years old and was built with the technology of the day. Of course I had no interest in the little 4 banger engine, buggy suspension, crappy brakes, or the skinny little tires. I built it with the technology of the early 80's with a modern engine (Weber carbs), auto transmission, tires, disc brakes, IRS, AC, etc. Still a Model A and was registered as a 1928 but a car we could drive comfortably anywhere. Occasionally I would get challenged about why I "ruined a good car" but to me if it was really a good car they would still be building them that way.

225892

So fast forward to 2026 and our Factory Five Cobras. 1965 was 61 years ago, not all that different from my Model A which really makes me feel my age:( Shelby built his Cobras with the technology of the day, V8 engines, Holley carburetors, dual point distributors, fat bias ply tires, mechanical analog gauges, etc. State of the art it would have been called. Today the technology is light years ahead, it's been growing like Moore's law for a few decades.

We take the spirit of Shelby's 65 Cobra and make it modern so we can enjoy them instead of fighting and working on them all the time. Some of these modern upgrades are no brainers like better brakes, radial tires, power steering, overdrive transmissions, coilover shocks, insulation, etc. If we want the full 2026 treatment we can install (shoehorn) in a Gen 4 Coyote, a truly amazing engine in all aspects except for looks and size. Or split the difference with a pushrod engine with forged internals, aluminum heads, and EFI so it makes an obscene amount of power but always starts and idles.

Like Shelby I enjoy embracing the technology of the day.

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[cv2065]

Like Shelby I enjoy embracing the technology of the day.

Shelby America introduced its first electric vehicle, the Ford Mustang Mach-E GT. 100% torque off the line, no trans and low center of gravity. 3.3 second 0-60 and ZERO maintenance.

[Mike.Bray]

There's a limit to what technology I'm willing to embrace....

[Jeff Kleiner]

…and ZERO maintenance.

Really? I’ve yet to find a transportation device that requires ZERO maintenance. Not even a Subaru. Tell us more! :confused:

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Wait Subaru's don't require maintenance??? I want my money back :rolleyes:

[cv2065]

There's a limit to what technology I'm willing to embrace....

Agreed. I’d venture to say Shelby would be a modified coyote guy if he were alive.

[cv2065]

Really? I’ve yet to find a transportation device that requires ZERO maintenance. Not even a Subaru. Tell us more! :confused:

Jeff

Engine was the topic. EV motors are sealed. No maintenance for a lifetime. What did i miss?

[gbranham]

Shelby America introduced its first electric vehicle, the Ford Mustang Mach-E GT. 100% torque off the line, no trans and low center of gravity. 3.3 second 0-60 and ZERO maintenance.

Like they say...microwaving a steak is fast, but it isn't enjoyable.

Greg

[cv2065]

Wait Subaru's don't require maintenance??? I want my money back :rolleyes:

Subaru Rich? Now that’s interesting… ;)

[cv2065]

Like they say...microwaving a steak is fast, but it isn't enjoyable.

Greg

Agree 100% but per the context of this discussion, enjoyment is subjective.

[rich grsc]

300+ hp turbo, all wheel drive, 6 speed, Brembo brakes.....yep it's very interesting.
With a little bit of work and some cash it can be 400-500hp, but I want to keep it factory stock

[TrackDay17]

300+ hp turbo, all wheel drive, 6 speed, Brembo brakes.....yep it's very interesting.
With a little bit of work and some cash it can be 400-500hp, but I want to keep it factory stock

With my limited Subaru experience with my step daughter's Forester that howl you'll hear will be a wheel bearing Rich.
Other than that it's been a solid car.

At the end of the day if it's what's under the hood makes you happy that's all that matters.

[J R Jones]

With my limited Subaru experience with my step daughter's Forester that howl you'll hear will be a wheel bearing Rich.
Other than that it's been a solid car.

At the end of the day if it's what's under the hood makes you happy that's all that matters.

I have gone through a four cylinder and a six cylinder Subaru that did not meet my expectations. My independant shop would not work on the six cylinder and the dealer told me that at $3200 the massive oil leak was not worth fixing.
I bought an 818 and replaced the Subaru bits with Acura V6.
If you feel Subaru is interesting there are lots of boosted Subarus on Craigslist that did not make it to 100K miles.
My latest 1000hp, all wheel drive, one speed, Brembo brakes and drag coeffcient of 0.208 is great for exhibition of speed, oh and no maintenance.
jim

[JMD]

This thread really went places!!

[Rebostar]

Wait! Someones putting a Subaru engine in a Cobra? Send Pics! Where can I get one?

[rich grsc]

I had thought that would be the ultimate "OTHER" engine build. But I'm not tackling that :rolleyes:

[CW_MI]

Here's an interesting option....
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFd0yHayYIZ/

[J R Jones]

Here's an interesting option....
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFd0yHayYIZ/

With diversity in mind, I bought a 1968 Excalibur Phaeton and resto-modded it into a replica 1929 Mercedes SSK step-over Roadster. Out went the 327SBC Powerglide and in went a Lexus 2JZ five speed.
The Studebaker suspension bits are replaced with Lexus as well.
jim

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225965

[CW_MI]

With diversity in mind, I bought a 1968 Excalibur Phaeton and resto-modded it into a replica 1929 Mercedes SSK step-over Roadster. Out went the 327SBC Powerglide and in went a Lexus 2JZ five speed.
The Studebaker suspension bits are replaced with Lexus as well.
jim

225964

225965

Very cool. I know nothing about the 2JZ platform, but am impressed on how much power they can make.

[cv2065]

Here's an interesting option....
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFd0yHayYIZ/

Wow, 2JZ. That's impressive. Talk about getting an entirely new generation into Cobra building Fast and Furious style.

[rich grsc]

A 2JZ with a 1000hp, it's been dialed down

[Slideways]

I’m new to this world but thankfully went to the build school and was able to hear lots of talk about engines. I finally sat myself down and gave me a good talkin’ to and focused on how I believe I will really use the car. For me the 302 will be enough. I used to own a high end bicycle shop that sold boutique custom bikes. Customers would come to me babbling about every aspect of a build all at once. As soon as they stopped to take a breath I would always try to steer the conversation toward what they wanted and what they needed and try to find a balance. Had to do this with myself to figure out what to put under the hood.

[Jim Doak]

Sounds like a great strategy.

FYI, I went with a 302 also. The BluePrint engine dyno'd at 383 horsepower. Should be adequate for what I want.

[Aleinsteingenius]

I also sat myself down and gave myself a good talking to about engines.....and ended up going with a Godzilla. Maybe I wasn't listening. (shrug)

[rich grsc]

Mostly we are our own worst enemy. :rolleyes:

[CW_MI]

I’m new to this world but thankfully went to the build school and was able to hear lots of talk about engines. I finally sat myself down and gave me a good talkin’ to and focused on how I believe I will really use the car. For me the 302 will be enough. I used to own a high end bicycle shop that sold boutique custom bikes. Customers would come to me babbling about every aspect of a build all at once. As soon as they stopped to take a breath I would always try to steer the conversation toward what they wanted and what they needed and try to find a balance. Had to do this with myself to figure out what to put under the hood.

And there you go bringing rational thinking and common sense into the topic. ;)

I wish I had some, or listened to what others recommend...it would have saved me so much time, work and money.

When I was younger, pretty much everything I owned that had an engine , had to be modified, mostly to make more power that I didn't need.

From my diesel trucks, and car, street (race) car, boats , snowmobiles, dirt bikes, ATV....
Does one really need a 700hp 26' boat ? 187hp snowmobile ? A 10 second summer car ? Granted, I grew out of this for the most part and the last 20 years have enjoyed turning the key, or pulling the cord and just reliably enjoying whatever machine I was using.

Some of this crept back with the engine choice I'm going with...again, do I really need a 500hp 2400lb car ? Nope. I guess some things never really change.

[Mike.Bray]

300+ hp turbo, all wheel drive, 6 speed, Brembo brakes.....yep it's very interesting.
With a little bit of work and some cash it can be 400-500hp, but I want to keep it factory stock

Are you going to install a Subaru B12 engine Rich?

226358

[rich grsc]

Yes Mike. You shouldn't have let the cat outa the bag. :rolleyes:
Now can you loan me some cash.:eek:
I found the conversion factor for installing this in a Cobra; "when the weight of the engine equals the weight of the cash" it will fit and work perfect.

[Slideways]

Hmmm, 383hp in a 2200lb car is 5.75lbs/hp. That’s right in there with the Dodge Challenger Hellcat and Ford Shelby Mustang GT500 if I’m not mistaken. I’m good with that…