Roadster Aluminum Panels

[NJMike]

I finished my inventory and will be working on the aluminum panels next. I want to make sure that my understanding of the process is correct. From watching many Youtube videos and reading as many threads as I can find it's my understanding that the best approach is to position the panels, mark them and drill all of the panels; should I just be drilling the panels at this time or also drilling the frame as well?

The panels are positioned close to where they will be mounted but not in the exact position, where the panels do not line up exactly, should they be trimmed? For instance one of my F Panels sits above the frame rail by about a 16th of an inch high while the other side is flush with the frame rail. The F Panel that sits above the frame rail cannot be adjusted down as it interferes with the lower frame. Should I trim the top of the F Panel?

Once all of the panels are drilled do you recommend stripping the car of all panels except the F Panels and begin installing components, fuel, brake lines, etc.? It seems to me that this approach will be much easier from an access standpoint or will I get myself in trouble down stream if I wait to install the panels?

I understand that these are probably very basic questions for some of you more experienced builders and apologize in advance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Stangrob]

Hi Mike,

I just got done with a lot of this myself so I'll give you my two cents. I'm confident that other guys will also share their approach as well.

The basic process is before removing any panels from the chassis you'll want to mark where they overlap each other and where they rest against the frame. These marks will show where you need to drill for rivets. My focus has been on getting the engine bay panels ready for powder coating but you can do this process for all panels up front if you want. But in a nutshell:
- Once the panels are marked you can remove them from the chassis. I used the panel diagram in the instructions to number the panels as well for reference. I also took note of the sequence of how the panels came off to help me when reassembling. I also took a lot of photos of the panels from various angles to help with the reassembly process.
- I used the rivet layout tool and marked my panels. The rivet tool gives a 3/8" offset which works in most cases. If you're working with a larger tube then you'll want to lay out a centerline on the panel to guide the layout tool. I found that a lot of the sheet metal screws used to hold the panels in place weren't where I'd hope they'd be (naturally) so I had to work around that.
- With the panels drilled I started to reassemble the panels onto the chassis. Where a panel overlapped another or laid on a frame section I drilled those holes at this time. BTW if you haven't bought a collection of clecos yet I'd strongly suggest doing so. I ended up picking up eighty plus two sets of pliers for them, and I used each and every one while mocking up the engine bay. Amazon has some good USA-produced ones for a reasonable price.
- I did this for all engine bay panels, and also put the floor pans back in temporarily to ensure everything lined up.

I did very little trimming of panels. Actually, I think I did it only once, where two corners overlapped on a panel I cut some clearance. I spent more time making sure that the angles on the panels were correct. I found a number of mine needed massaging so my vice, some 2x4s, and a ball peen hammer came in handy.

I honestly thought that I would reset a number of panels or do some trimming, but I realized that the panels as mocked up by FF were pretty darn close already. For my F-panels I left them right where they were and did not trim anything (as much as my OCD tendencies would have liked). I did find a spot or two where a weld got in the way of a flush fit, and I broke out my grinder and cleaned up the frame at that point, but otherwise I focused on getting the panels drilled and lined up properly. I think this is especially important in the engine bay since you see all of this (as compared to the cockpit.

One last thing. I've read this a few times and I see the value - I'll hold off installing most panels permanently as long as I can. Clecos are your friend here. If you need access to install brake or fuel lines it'll be great if the area is wide open, or at least that you can easily remove the offending panel.

I hope this helps!

Rob

[Wizbangdoodle]

I found that I did sections. For example, I did the engine compartment and got it all riveted in, leaving edges that overlap unriveted. And remember, Clecos are your friend. I essentially fit as many panels as I could before final riveting. I had the engine compartment and cockpit all fit before I riveted in the engine compartment.

As far as panels not fitting, you just have to make them fit, but I would go several steps ahead to make sure you're not missing something. Once you are satisfied that everything is how it should be, go ahead and trim the panel to fit.

Most people leave the footbox open and rivet it last. That way, you have access to all the hardware under there. Good luck.

[edwardb]

Rob (Stangrob) about covered it. Mount and drill everything before powder coat is the most common recommendation. Use the factory shipping hole locations as mere suggestions. Save any trimming until the very last resort. More often than not, if something isn't fitting right it's either not positioned properly or the sequence is wrong. FF does a pretty good job with this. Once you start trimming and moving stuff around from where it was designed, can affect the fit of other parts. The Mk4 is a mature kit and very well sorted. The Mk5 I'm working on now, even though relatively new, fit well. Agreed about sometimes having to tweak bends. Clecos are your friends. I use a lot of them. Yes, run fuel, brake lines, and front and rear harnesses leaving panels loose as much as it makes sense. One hint not mentioned -- make sure as you're laying out rivet holes to make sure you have room for the drill and whatever you're using to pull the rivets. It's not hard to back yourself in a corner with a bad location. Good luck.

[cv2065]

I took lots of pictures of how the panels were hanging first thing right after I pulled the body for the first time. Then I fit, drilled and cleco'd all of the panels. Then disassembled and sent to powder coat.

I pretty much followed the manual from that point on with some adjustments. F-Panels went in first. Rear trunk side panels went in pretty early. The cockpit floor panels go in almost last to stay out of the way while hanging fuel/brake lines. The upper deck of the trunk went in before the cockpit wall so I could get a rivet gun in there and I put the driver's side footbox side panel dead last.

If you find yourself in a dilemma where a panel needs a major trimming to fit, then go back and look at your panel placement as these panels fit pretty well as is. You might have to occasionally grind down a weld to make a panel sit flush but nothing major. I think I did trim one side of the floor panels about 1/16" where it ended at the console top, but I think that was more due to placement than panel design.

As Paul said, think about where you are drilling before you drill as you want to be able to get a gun in there. Some of the pre-drilled holes aren't always in the 'correct' spacing and OCD can become a factor. You'll just have to work past that.

Also, decide whether you want your panel seams showing on the bottom. I never did as I think it's cleaner look where nothing but the rivet heads show. Once you get sound proofing and carpet in, it covers all of the rivet ends in the cockpit floorboard.

[jengum]

I did some minor trimming of the F panels. Another area that required trimming was the A frame tunnel piece where it matched up with the inner DS foot box panel. While the FF located panels are close I did not rely on the FF self tapped screw locations and used clamps instead to hold panels in place for fitting. Some of the panels can be drilled at the same time into the frame if you can see what you are drilling into and others will need to be marked from the back side first against the frame, removed, marked with the spacer, drilled and then re-attached using the drilled holes as a template for the frame drilling. You can also use the self tapping screws used by FF for the panel attachment to help pull the panels together in other locations. And yes clecos are you're best friends and a good set of left and right hand tin snips.

[Grubester]

One thing regarding aluminum panels: deburr everything, even if you think it "doesn't show" or you won't be interacting with it during post-installation and maintenance later. I was at Ken Pikes last year talking about paint and saw a nice looking blue Mk4 but then noticed in several places where the aluminum still had lethal edges. The original builder probably hadn't thought about the look and "feel" of this feature in these cars. Fact is many parts on the car need deburring before handling.
All the deburring turned into a great exercise for my wife's 13-year-old grandson who has been "learning how to build a Cobra!" I showed him how to properly use a file, and he then deburred all ~65 panels. Then I showed how to drill steel without breaking drill bits.

[NJMike]

Thanks guys, great ideas that I would have missed had I not asked, particularly;

- Noting the sequence of parts removal for re-assembly
- Marking center line on larger tubes
- Hold off on trimming until last resort
- De-burr everything. Wonder if I can get my 6 year old grandson to learn how to de-burr the panels.:)

And of course photos, photos, photos and the clecos, my tool and clecos arrived in today's mail.

Appreciate everyone's insight. This forum is what gave me the confidence to pull the trigger on my kit. I hadn't wrenched on cars in nearly 50 years and although just getting started I'm already enjoying the build.

Mike