Header Bolt treatment

[rponfick]

I am wondering about the current recommendation of what to use on header bolts. Mk 5, BP 347" alum. heads, FFR headers, regular bolts, no locking mechanisms.
The assembly manual indicates some thread locker. I have done a search here and have seen recommendations from Permatex copper RTV, regular anti seize, and thread locker (whatever strength that might be).
This is quite a range of recommendations. Makes me wonder if it really matters what you use, or is it even necessary?

Let the flames begin, as I am old and can take it.

Thanks, Ralph

[Jeff Kleiner]

Use these with anti-seize...not a thread locking compound It's a mechanical lock.

https://www.proformparts.com/wedge-locking-bolts

Jeff

[Cobraman]

Anytime you use a different material such as stainless or ARP bolts in aluminum heads you must use and I've always used copper base antiseize this is in my opinion the best way to do this. I ordered some ARP bolts and did not use the stainless steel ones provided by F5 You can also use some mechanical locking systems I chose not too they seem a little cumbersome it's just a matter of being diligent in retourqing those header bolts periodically. What's the fun in having a car like this if you can't tinker on it:confused:. I'm certain someone will have a different opinion but after many years of working on heavy equipment this method hasn't failed me.

[Mike.Bray]

With aluminum heads studs are better. When you tighten a nut on a stud the force applied to the female threads in the soft aluminum head is only in one direction, there's no compounding rotational force so less likely to cause damage to the threads. I used ARP 100-1404 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1404) stud kit. An added bonus to using studs is assembly is a breeze, hang the (Remflex) gasket and pop the header on.

By all means, any fastener going into aluminum needs anti-seize applied. Real anti-seize, not oil or WD-40.

222610

[Rebostar]

As mentioned above copper based anti seize. Use a torque wrench and tighten to Head mfgr's specs. As Mike mentioned ARP studs are best. You'll also want to use the antiseize on all exhaust fastners.

222614222615222616222617

[Ejzajac]

As mentioned above copper based anti seize. Use a torque wrench and tighten to Head mfgr's specs. As Mike mentioned ARP studs are best. You'll also want to use the antiseize on all exhaust fastners.

222614222615222616222617

Are those "double" brass nuts on the header adjustors going to the side pipes. Thanks.

Ed Z

[CraigS]

A tech question. What is the advantage of copper based antiseize vs regular?

[PMD24]

With aluminum heads studs are better. When you tighten a nut on a stud the force applied to the female threads in the soft aluminum head is only in one direction, there's no compounding rotational force so less likely to cause damage to the threads. I used ARP 100-1404 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1404) stud kit. An added bonus to using studs is assembly is a breeze, hang the (Remflex) gasket and pop the header on.

By all means, any fastener going into aluminum needs anti-seize applied. Real anti-seize, not oil or WD-40.

222610

Mike, I've purchased the ARP studs and brackets for my BP347 with aluminum heads, along with ARP's torque lube. My plan is to use their lube and NOT apply neverseize. Any thoughts on that? Thanks.

Pat

[gbranham]

x2 on header studs. Way easier to install the gaskets and headers. I also use the Permatex anti-seize. I ditched the goop that came with the studs. I like Permatex products.

Greg

[Mike.Bray]

Mike, I've purchased the ARP studs and brackets for my BP347 with aluminum heads, along with ARP's torque lube. My plan is to use their lube and NOT apply neverseize. Any thoughts on that? Thanks.

Pat

I use anti-seize when threading into aluminum. The ARP lube is good for the hardened nut on the stud, actually any fastener requiring an accurate torque should use the ARP lube and not anti-seize. .

As a note, anti-seize is a specialized lubricant that contains metal particles like copper, graphic, and/or nickel. It is different from a straight lubricant. It's not for use on sliding parts.

[Rebostar]

Are those "double" brass nuts on the header adjustors going to the side pipes. Thanks.

Ed Z

Ed
The hardware in the attached pics were just for mock up and go carting. The "actual fasnters" I used were not the pictured stainless ARP bolts. NO STAINLESS STEEL HARDWARE IN EXHAUST SYSTEMS. I used cad plated grade 8 bolts and yes double nutted brass nuts with the aforementioned copper antiseize. The pics below are the permenent hardware.

222658222659

[Rebostar]

A tech question. What is the advantage of copper based antiseize vs regular?

Back in the 70's when I started out as an A&P technician my first boss showed me the Continental and Lycoming maintenance manuals calling for copper based antiseize to be used on the exhaust studs/nuts and sparkplugs. I think I recall a Harley Davidson manual calling for it as well. Not sure about the science, but I've always used it on any high heat aluminum components and never regretted it.
The old adage applies here. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[Mike.Bray]

I used these bolts https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CFS6NG?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

With these brass nuts https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IZ49HC?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

They seem to work well.