Heater Elbows vs Engine Position Help

[PMD24]

Put the engine/Transmission (BP347 with TKX) in yesterday for the first time. Went in without any issues even going solo. As I look things over for next steps the first issue I've noticed is that the elbows that are supposed to be mounted to the heater core tubes won't work. There simply isn't room between the connection point and the end of the valve cover, when using the firewall forward. Searched the forum for over an hour and found no mention of this which seems odd given the frequency of BP347 installs.

221416

I've also a attached photo of the engine mount position and the shifter location. That all appears to be good.

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221418

Can anyone confirm that with the firewall forward and the BP347, a plan B is needed in place of those elbows? Assuming the answer is yes, I'm thinking that I will need to remove the heater, cut off the existing male threaded fittings, leaving a shorter stub, and sweat on a new adapter, or use a compression fitting back closer to the firewall, so I can clear the end of the valve cover.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Pat

[Mike.Bray]

There's a build thread by a guy in Phoenix that I seem to remember had a similar issue. He's doing an LS with a ProFlo4. Pmieras is his name I think.

[flyboyjy]

Here I ran into this with firewall forward and using a 351 based engine. Post #56 was what I did,

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44281-Well-it-s-about-that-time-I-m-ready-Jason-s-MK-IV/page2

[Jeff Kleiner]

Gosh, it’s almost like there’s a reason FFR didn’t design it with the firewall farther forward. :rolleyes:

Jeff

[rich grsc]

It's not a 347 issue, that is the same size as a 331 or 302 engine. You put the cart before the horse, so yes now you need to build your own solution. Copper sweat fittings

[PMD24]

There's a build thread by a guy in Phoenix that I seem to remember had a similar issue. He's doing an LS with a ProFlo4. Pmieras is his name I think.

Thanks Mike. I recognize that name. I think he has done some videos. I'll track it down and take a look.

[PMD24]

Gosh, it’s almost like there’s a reason FFR didn’t design it with the firewall farther forward. :rolleyes:

Jeff

Yeah, I get it. I went here for more room for the glove box/heater and still have to rework the box anyway. And now the heater! Live and learn. Or is it build and learn.

Next build...

[PMD24]

Here I ran into this with firewall forward and using a 351 based engine. Post #56 was what I did,

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44281-Well-it-s-about-that-time-I-m-ready-Jason-s-MK-IV/page2

Thank you. I came across that tool today on Amazon when searching for bead tools as a possible solution. Now I know that it will do the trick! Appreciate the feedback.

Pat

[PMD24]

It's not a 347 issue, that is the same size as a 331 or 302 engine. You put the cart before the horse, so yes now you need to build your own solution. Copper sweat fittings

Thanks Rich. Given this was my first time doing an engine install I wanted to be sure that it was sitting where it should so I thought I should note that it was a 302 based setup. Seems like I'd be in the same spot and would need to alter the heater tubes, even if I installed the engine first. But, yes, I do have some rework to pull the heater.

Jeff nailed it. The firewall forward hasn't bought me much of anything so far. I still need to alter the glovebox, and now the heater tubes.

Pat

[phileas_fogg]

I cut off the threaded fittings from the heater core and beaded the copper tubes using a beading tool (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A8FTIU?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_ti tle_3). Be sure to leave one tube longer than the other so you can fit the other hose!

Then I used 90* degree bend hoses from Napa (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBH10071) so that I could mount the cutoff parallel to the firewall. The cable pull easily supports a gradual 90* bend, though honestly, you could get rid of that entirely, because if it's cold enough for the heater you'll know at the beginning of the ride & you'll only want the heater ON or off.

A couple of 90* couplers (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBH9924) linked those short bended hose sections to some long-ish hoses run down the 3/4" tube supporting the hood. For the water pump return, I used a 90* bend and pointed the hose straight down, then a 90* coupler to the long-ish hose. For the feed, I was able to connect the long-ish hose to a brass fitting place just behind the thermostat housing.

Some additional notes: If you haven't already cut the hole in your firewall, be sure to check the provided template against YOUR heater! My template was off about 1/2" for the core opening, and I had to massage the tube openings as well.

Also, you may find one of the defroster ports blows right into the dash support. It's OK to remove the support. If you're not plumbing for a defroster, then just fill the ports with an appropriate size MDF plug.



John

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189117&d=1692562468

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189113&d=1692562356

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189114&d=1692562356

[PMD24]

I cut off the threaded fittings from the heater core and beaded the copper tubes using a beading tool (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A8FTIU?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_ti tle_3). Be sure to leave one tube longer than the other so you can fit the other hose!

Then I used 90* degree bend hoses from Napa (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBH10071) so that I could mount the cutoff parallel to the firewall. The cable pull easily supports a gradual 90* bend, though honestly, you could get rid of that entirely, because if it's cold enough for the heater you'll know at the beginning of the ride & you'll only want the heater ON or off.

A couple of 90* couplers (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBH9924) linked those short bended hose sections to some long-ish hoses run down the 3/4" tube supporting the hood. For the water pump return, I used a 90* bend and pointed the hose straight down, then a 90* coupler to the long-ish hose. For the feed, I was able to connect the long-ish hose to a brass fitting place just behind the thermostat housing.

Some additional notes: If you haven't already cut the hole in your firewall, be sure to check the provided template against YOUR heater! My template was off about 1/2" for the core opening, and I had to massage the tube openings as well.

Also, you may find one of the defroster ports blows right into the dash support. It's OK to remove the support. If you're not plumbing for a defroster, then just fill the ports with an appropriate size MDF plug.



John

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189117&d=1692562468

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189113&d=1692562356

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189114&d=1692562356

John, thank you. I am leaning toward the beading approach, so all of your detail is very helpful. My heater is installed but it's pretty easy to pull it to make the changes needed. Regarding the dash support, it is in my plan to remove it. They pointed that out in the build school as well. Thanks again. Great feedback.

Pat

[danmas]

Gosh, it’s almost like there’s a reason FFR didn’t design it with the firewall farther forward. :rolleyes:

Jeff

This!

Don’t get me wrong, the firewall forward is nice, but it really crowds my engine compartment. For a smaller engine/less busy engine it’s probably great.