Vermont Mk5 Build (Project Midlife Crisis)

[shaneunger]

Hi everyone, Shane here from Underhill in the beautiful Green Mountain State.

I'm fulfilling a life long dream, and exercising my midlife crisis perogitive, by building a Mk5. I've loved cars my whole life, and this one in particular since I got the privelge to park one as a valet when I lived in Los Angeles in my early 20s. The customer drove in with their car and I thought it was an original and nearly lost my mind until they explained it was a kit car (my first time hearing of such a thing). They said they hated it because it was too loud and too hot (he pointed to his melted converse sneaker) and the clutch was breaking his knee, and from then on I knew I must build one.

I wanted to learn as much about these contraptions that I've been obsessed with since I was a young teen, so I decided to build my own motor, rear end, and transmission. The last part has proved difficult as the two very cheap T5s I've bought to rebuild were both toast and not worth the effort to try and save. So I might cave and buy a new tranny, but I had such a rewarding time rebuilding my 302 and I will say rebuilding the rear end was one of the more challenging things I've attempted, but I now have an intimate knowledge of both and I'll feel more connected to every mile I drive as a result.

I was lucky enough to be able to order the kit in person, and it was great meeting Dave and the rest of the team, really awesome people.

Kit Details:
* Ford 302: rebuilt from a 94 Bronco 302w. AFR heads, bored .030 over, semi aggressive street cam, 600cfm Brawler carb
* 8.8 rear end: rebuild from an 87 Mustang with 3.55 gears and 5 lug axle conversion. Did I say this was challenging? Man, every adjustment that one might have to make I did, but it was worth it, very happy with the result
* T5 transmission (still looking for a good used one to rebuild, if I don't find one Forte will be getting a call from me
* Solid axle 3 link
* 17" wheels, 9" front, 10" rear
* Dual rollbars for my wife
* Racing seats



I've already gotten underway and have been having the best time so far, can't belive how lucky we all are to get to do this.

I'd love to know if there are any FFR folks nearby, I've seen one or two on the road in Vermont so finding the Cobra community here would be great.

Thanks for reading!
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[rponfick]

You appear much too young to call this a "midlife crisis" project. I think I am able to call my new MK5 an old life crisis, being 83, but you are too young.
Have fun. Ralph

[Takis31gk]

Another New England MK5! Welcome aboard!!!

[JTG]

Hi Shane, and welcome!

Any chance your car was delivered on Sept 21st by a guy named Mark?
If so I think our cars were on the same truck since he mentioned heading to Vermont next. We're in Western Mass, so probably a 3-4 hour drive and our build is a Type 65 Coupe.

I look forward to following along, and maybe when our cars are done we can go for a drive.

Have fun!
Jon

[egchewy79]

I agree that you look too young to be consider "mid life". Looking forward to this build.

[shaneunger]

You appear much too young to call this a "midlife crisis" project. I think I am able to call my new MK5 an old life crisis, being 83, but you are too young.
Have fun. Ralph

Haha, I appreciate that, but I am 42. I mean, hopefully I make to to 100!

[shaneunger]

Hi Shane, and welcome!

Any chance your car was delivered on Sept 21st by a guy named Mark?
If so I think our cars were on the same truck since he mentioned heading to Vermont next. We're in Western Mass, so probably a 3-4 hour drive and our build is a Type 65 Coupe.

I look forward to following along, and maybe when our cars are done we can go for a drive.

Have fun!
Jon

Hey Jon, yup, that was my kit! Would love to cruise when we have them finished!

[rickshank]

Looking forward to following along!

And please try to rotate your pictures before posting :)

[Aleinsteingenius]

Welcome Shane! I am building an Mk V also down on Long Island. I just turned 69 so it is a bit optimistic to call it "Mid Life Crises" project in my case. In fact, when my OCDness kicks in and I spend way too long on something, I slap myself and say, "YOU ARE 69 YEARS OLD! GET IT DONE ALREADY!"

[shaneunger]

Looking forward to following along!

And please try to rotate your pictures before posting :)

I’m not sure why they ended up that way, they certainly weren’t like that on my computer. Once they were uploaded I didn’t see an option to correct them.

[danmas]

I’m not sure why they ended up that way, they certainly weren’t like that on my computer. Once they were uploaded I didn’t see an option to correct them.

The software doesn’t seem to like unedited pictures for some reason. Typically you have to transform them a bit. If you open them in paint and resave them that seems to do the trick. Crop them a little or adjust them and that seems to remove the rotation aspect. I take a picture with my phone. That saves to google cloud. I download on my laptop or iPad and upload and that transform seems to work. I think it has to do with size of picture but I am not sure. Regardless, if you transform the pictures that seems to do it.

Welcome!
Dan

[Mike.Bray]

+1 on using Paint to sort out the pictures.

[BUDFIVE]

It also works to just crop them in the photos folder on an iPad. I was a repeat offender before i figured it out. :)
Welcome to the forum.

[shaneunger]

Thanks for the responses so far everyone! I took the advice and tried editing these before uploading.

Made some progress nothing earthshattering, gas tank and e brake cables are in. I'm working on the steering column next.

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Couple questions:

First, in the photo here there are two bags of 5/16"-18 X 1" button head bolts. One says C/S SS. Any idea when I'd use one over the other?

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Second, another dumb question, when should I use washers? Sometimes it's obvious from the photos they've used a washer, other times it isn't. Is there a good rule of thumb?

Third, I'm concerned the panhard bar looks a bit close to the diff cover here. What I am hoping is that given the car is up on a stand currently, this is the maximum travel of the rear end, that when the car is on the groud the shocks will be compressed a bit which will move the diff cover away from the panhard bar. Anything to worry about?

Thanks in advance!

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[BUDFIVE]

Shaneunger,
The pictures look fine. On Q2, in general I use washers when available-flat washer under bolt head and lock washer under nut, unless it’s a nylon lock nut in which case I try to use a flat washer under it as well. Of course there are exceptions like a bolt holding something to a threaded frame hole-here I would use a lock washer under the bolt head. In the Mark IV kit, in most cases enough washers were available to do as above. I would assume the V kit would as well.

[shaneunger]

Shaneunger,
The pictures look fine. On Q2, in general I use washers when available-flat washer under bolt head and lock washer under nut, unless it’s a nylon lock nut in which case I try to use a flat washer under it as well. Of course there are exceptions like a bolt holding something to a threaded frame hole-here I would use a lock washer under the bolt head. In the Mark IV kit, in most cases enough washers were available to do as above. I would assume the V kit would as well.

That makes sense. The kit didn't include many (any?) lock washers, but I can always grab some if needed. I do notice most of the nuts are either nylon or mechanical lock nuts

[Mike.Bray]

Shaneunger,
The pictures look fine. On Q2, in general I use washers when available-flat washer under bolt head and lock washer under nut, unless it’s a nylon lock nut in which case I try to use a flat washer under it as well. Of course there are exceptions like a bolt holding something to a threaded frame hole-here I would use a lock washer under the bolt head. In the Mark IV kit, in most cases enough washers were available to do as above. I would assume the V kit would as well.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but split type "lock washers" really aren't doing any locking, they're just making a small diameter thick flat washer. If you think about the small amount of force required to flatten one of these things, there's not enough force held in it to stop a bolt of nut from loosening. Hook's Law is what keeps bolts tight.

To put it another way, when's the last time you saw one on an OEM engine or even anywhere on the car?

Split "lock washers" are useless, just use a good flat washer and torque the fastener.

[edwardb]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but split type "lock washers" really aren't doing any locking, they're just making a small diameter thick flat washer. If you think about the small amount of force required to flatten one of these things, there's not enough force held in it to stop a bolt of nut from loosening. Hook's Law is what keeps bolts tight.

To put it another way, when's the last time you saw one on an OEM engine or even anywhere on the car?

Split "lock washers" are useless, just use a good flat washer and torque the fastener.

Yup. Lots of studies and YouTube videos that show this to be the case. Plus because they're relatively thick, the supplied kit hardware often won't be long enough and have the desired couple of threads exposed through the nut.

[cv2065]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but split type "lock washers" really aren't doing any locking, they're just making a small diameter thick flat washer. If you think about the small amount of force required to flatten one of these things, there's not enough force held in it to stop a bolt of nut from loosening. Hook's Law is what keeps bolts tight.

To put it another way, when's the last time you saw one on an OEM engine or even anywhere on the car?

Split "lock washers" are useless, just use a good flat washer and torque the fastener.

Agree with Mike on the split washers. Although I have had success with Nord Lock washers, especially under header nuts.

[BUDFIVE]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but split type "lock washers" really aren't doing any locking, they're just making a small diameter thick flat washer. If you think about the small amount of force required to flatten one of these things, there's not enough force held in it to stop a bolt of nut from loosening. Hook's Law is what keeps bolts tight.

To put it another way, when's the last time you saw one on an OEM engine or even anywhere on the car?

Split "lock washers" are useless, just use a good flat washer and torque the fastener.

Mike, it’s not bad news when we’re (I’m) learning. I had heard from less reliable sources that split washers aren’t much better than flats. Y’all confirmed it.
I also consider the nylon locking nuts limited use-the nylon loses tightness and grip with multiple uses, right?

[Mike.Bray]

Mike, it’s not bad news when we’re (I’m) learning. I had heard from less reliable sources that split washers aren’t much better than flats. Y’all confirmed it.
I also consider the nylon locking nuts limited use-the nylon loses tightness and grip with multiple uses, right?

To me nylocks are "okay", not something to rely on. And not a big fan of stainless ones at all as they gall easily. Never ever use stainless nylocks without anti-seize. Actual anti-seize, not oil or grease. There's a big difference. But if you do use nylocks I would agree one and done.

Read up on Hook's Law or have a look at my thread on fasteners if you want a good understanding of what keeps a fastener from coming loose.

[PMD24]

Skip the washers entirely unless they are needed to extend the head over some type of gap. No point in creating more surface area to dilute the frictional pressure. Spent a lot of years working on industrial utility equipment and washers are rarely used. Come to think of it, I rarely see them on my daily driver.

[PMD24]

Relative to your photos, to stop them from turning sideways, resize them so that the largest dimension is under 2000 pixels. I use 1900. Just double click on the photo and allow whatever software your computer uses to open them. No need to use Paint or Elements, or any special editing software. You just need to resize and any standard Mac or MS photo app will do that. Just save the resized version and you can upload it directly from your computer, the cloud, a thumb drive... from essentially anywhere. No need to save to Flicker or the Forum Gallery. If saved to the cloud, no need to download to any device. You can select the photo directly from here even if in the cloud

Once it loads, click on the blue icon in the menu above (far left). The photo will then appear as a photo instead of the filename.

If you want it bigger, double click on it. A dialogue box ill open and you can choose a bigger size.

EZ PZ

Also, if you load them one at a time, hit return twice to put a space between them. Easier to view that way, and you can type in short descriptors for each one if needed.

Hope this is helpful.

Pat

[cv2065]

I’m not sure why they ended up that way, they certainly weren’t like that on my computer. Once they were uploaded I didn’t see an option to correct them.

Grab yourself a Photobucket account and you keep your pics all in one spot, post larger pics, and rotate or manipulate with a few clicks on their site. Cut and paste the URL and all done. Not a fan of the little thumbnail pics, especially if you are browsing build threads on your phone.

[shaneunger]

Okay, I think I've got the photo issue figured out. If we can talk more about the car from here on out and less about photos, I'd really appreciate it! ;)

I've been making some (slow) progress. Started on the aluminum paneling while I wait for backorder items that are preventing me from doing things like the pedal assembly. I also got the steering column in. Like others, I had to cut the middle section to 12.5", but that was a great excuse to finally pick up an angle grinder, and beyond that the steering column was pretty easy to get in.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221983&d=1763857637

Beginning the process of drilling into the frame and riveting the panels was stressful at first, but is actually pretty enjoyable once I got going. I took the advice I'd read in other threads and got #30 an #10 drill bits for the various rivet sizes (instead of 1/8 and 3/16") and I'm finding no issues popping the rivets in.

I had my first "oh no" mistake. When installing the upper-rear cockpit wall, I trusted that the sheet metal screw holes that held the panel in during shipping would also correctly locate the panel for install. I hadn't trusted that on the other panels I installed, I made sure to double check everything, but I must have been on autopilot and it didn't occur to me to check.

Well, it turns out that the panel is about 3/8 to 1/2" off center

Here's the left side with a ruler for rough visual scale

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221987&d=1763857659

and the right side

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221986&d=1763857659

you can see the seatbelt hole in the aluminum on the right side is closer to the end of the 1" metal tube than on the other side.

I'm hoping this wont matter in the final build, it doesn't look too obvious when I take it in as a whole

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221985&d=1763857637

The seat belt straps will still be able to go through the holes, but what it does mean is that the side upper outside corner peice on the right side has some interference with the rear wall, and I'm thinking I may need to trim it a bit to get it to lay flat

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221980&d=1763857423

I also noticed with both of the upper outside corners that the edges are bent 90 degrees. This means that when they're installed, the edge doesn't lay flat against the door portion of the frame. I'm wondering if I should flatten that bend a bit so it will lay against the side frame member at the back of the door and enable me to install rivets

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221988&d=1763858963

Questions for the brain trust
1. Is it a real problem that the cockpit upper rear wall is ~1/2" off center? Is that going to cause me issues down the road (no pun intended)?
2. Should I trim the right rear upper corner panel so that it will fit with no interference against the upper rear wall?
3. Should I relax the 90 degree bend on those corner panels so it will lay more flat against the door and I can rivet it?

Thanks in advance!

[edwardb]

You're into cascading fitment issues due to the back wall being off center. Not only is that affecting your panel fit, seatbelts, etc. it will also affect the body fit. Starting to trim panels could add to issues. I've mounted all the panels on my Mk5 build. A few bends needed to be tweaked. But no trimming. They fit. Fix it right. I'd recommend that you drill out the rivets, move it to where it belongs, and drill new rivet holes. Whatever you used for adhesive may fight you, but you should be able to get it off. The old rivet holes that will show are the ones on the aluminum panel, which will be covered with insulation, carpet, etc. Whatever you're planning for the cockpit finish. Painful, yes, but in the long run is your best option IMO.

[shaneunger]

I was afraid this would be the answer! I'd rather have it done right though, so I'll drill them out.

When I do is it possible some of the rivet will fall into the frame tube? Will they rattle around as I drive? Will my motor be so loud I'll never hear it?

P.S. I'm really enjoying your MK5 build thread, finding it very helpful.

[edwardb]

I was afraid this would be the answer! I'd rather have it done right though, so I'll drill them out.

When I do is it possible some of the rivet will fall into the frame tube? Will they rattle around as I drive? Will my motor be so loud I'll never hear it?

P.S. I'm really enjoying your MK5 build thread, finding it very helpful.

Thanks. I'm enjoying my build too. :o Yes, the tails of the drilled out rivets will fall inside. I don't know about this area specifically, but sometimes the tubes are open on the end and you can get them out. But if closed, they'll live in there. They're aluminum and don't hurt anything. You won't hear them, trust me. I've drilled out my share.