Weird(?) EFI question

[Kivyee]

Hello everyone! New to cobras and to the forum - am in the process of shipping my newly purchased completed MkIV to me and am planning on a few winter project.
The engine is a 302 out of a 87 mustang. The builder converted it to a carb set-up. It runs pretty well as far as I can tell in the limited time I've spent with it but cold starts are finnicky. I'm thinking of going back to an EFI set-up. Given that it has an edelbrock performer(?) intake, would it make more sense to go the Holley Sniper route or to try to revert to OEM EFI (is it multi-point?) set up? At this point I'm tempted to just go with the Holley for ease of implementation and tuning, but would love to hear some thoughts. Here's a picture of the engine as it currently sits.

220841

[Mike.Bray]

Sniper 1 has a lot of faults and I don't think it's sold anymore.

Sniper 2 is better, but it's still throttle body injection which has some limitations. It will integrate with the hyperspark for timing control.

For not much more money you can get a complete ProFlo4 which is sequential port injection and has timing control. It is by far the best way to go for what you're looking for.

[Papa]

Welcome! I'm sure you will get lots of opinions on this, so be prepared. Switching to EFI will have you looking at several components; fuel pump, fuel lines, filters, ignition components, wiring, etc.. I would think going with a Sniper, ProFlow, etc. would be a lot simpler and likely more reliable long-term unless you have all the original parts and know the condition of the ECU and electrical stuff related to the "system". Trying to piece-part a bunch of old stuff together will likely end in frustration.

[Kivyee]

Sniper 1 has a lot of faults and I don't think it's sold anymore.

Sniper 2 is better, but it's still throttle body injection which has some limitations. It will integrate with the hyperspark for timing control.

For not much more money you can get a complete ProFlo4 which is sequential port injection and has timing control. It is by far the best way to go for what you're looking for.

Nice, let me look into ProFlo. Thanks!

[Kivyee]

Yeah I know I'd definitely have to do the fuel pump. Would be looking for wiring kits, precisely as you mention, trying to piece together an old "stock" wiring harness is not my idea of a good time ��

[gbranham]

+1 for ProFlo4. I have it, and it's awesome. Happy to chat about it if you want more info. PM me if you want to talk shop. You might put your location in your profile, so folks near you can offer to help in person.

Greg

[J R Jones]

It looks like presently you have little experience with this car, the carb and choke. So out goes the whole fuel system for new stuff you have little experience with.
"cold starts are finnicky" does not sound serious. If I had this project I would start with collecting baseline performance data on everything to compare against your changes. Kind of the scientific method.
jim

[Mike.Bray]

It looks like presently you have little experience with this car, the carb and choke. So out goes the whole fuel system for new stuff you have little experience with.
"cold starts are finnicky" does not sound serious. If I had this project I would start with collecting baseline performance data on everything to compare against your changes. Kind of the scientific method.
jim

From experience a Sniper or ProFlo will be so much easier to learn and tune than a vintage carb.

220852

[gbranham]

If you've ever used an app on a cell phone, you can install, configure and tune a ProFlo4 very easily. In fact, all I had to do was tell the app a few basic pieces of info about my engine, and it loaded a base tune, then made it's own adjustments as I drove. I never had to take it to a tuner or 'tune' it in the traditional sense. It just works. I'll never use anything else.

Greg

[MB750]

Personally, I wouldn't give up on the carby yet. Sometimes you just need to have a certain sequence to get the engine fired up cold. I've got a 500 cfm AVS2 on my build. Here's my cold-start sequence:

Key on, pump on
pump gas pedal 3-4 times (accelerator pumps pumping fuel into intake manifold)
crack throttle a bit, maybe 10%, hold it there
crank engine

Now, it usually fires pretty quick even after being offline for a couple months, but I still blip the throttle a bit to keep the cold engine purring. I've also got a "fast idle" knob that pulls the choke on the carb, but mine's adjusted to just bump the butterflies and not choke off the carb.

If it doesn't fire after a few cranks from the starter (around 3 seconds), I'll stop cranking, pump the gas a couple more times, crack the throttle, and crank again. I've never had to do that sequence more than twice.

[Mike.Bray]

Personally, I wouldn't give up on the carby yet. Sometimes you just need to have a certain sequence to get the engine fired up cold. I've got a 500 cfm AVS2 on my build. Here's my cold-start sequence:

Key on, pump on
pump gas pedal 3-4 times (accelerator pumps pumping fuel into intake manifold)
crack throttle a bit, maybe 10%, hold it there
crank engine

Now, it usually fires pretty quick even after being offline for a couple months, but I still blip the throttle a bit to keep the cold engine purring. I've also got a "fast idle" knob that pulls the choke on the carb, but mine's adjusted to just bump the butterflies and not choke off the carb.

If it doesn't fire after a few cranks from the starter (around 3 seconds), I'll stop cranking, pump the gas a couple more times, crack the throttle, and crank again. I've never had to do that sequence more than twice.

I'm too old to remember all of that, I just want to turn the key and have it start & run:) We are in the 21st century here.

220857

[J R Jones]

Personally, I wouldn't give up on the carby yet. Sometimes you just need to have a certain sequence to get the engine fired up cold. I've got a 500 cfm AVS2 on my build. Here's my cold-start sequence:

Key on, pump on
pump gas pedal 3-4 times (accelerator pumps pumping fuel into intake manifold)
crack throttle a bit, maybe 10%, hold it there
crank engine

Now, it usually fires pretty quick even after being offline for a couple months, but I still blip the throttle a bit to keep the cold engine purring. I've also got a "fast idle" knob that pulls the choke on the carb, but mine's adjusted to just bump the butterflies and not choke off the carb.

If it doesn't fire after a few cranks from the starter (around 3 seconds), I'll stop cranking, pump the gas a couple more times, crack the throttle, and crank again. I've never had to do that sequence more than twice.

Matt,
I grew-up with carburetors and I have not unlearned them. I experience cars with all my senses including taste, touch, hearing and smell.
I resurrected a collection of vintage Studebakers, 1963 V8, 1952 L6, 1941 I8, 1928 Big 6 and a 1923 Small 6. (The straight eight with twin 4 cylinder ignitions was a challenge)
I rebuilt the 23's brass updraught one barrel. Starting would require hand pumping fuel from the (rear) tank to a gravity feed reservouir on the firewall. (After start, fuel was drawn into the reservouir) Then it was hand choke, lever timing and lever throttle on the steering wheel.
The day of the 23's first start, the owner Romane, an 80-something WWII vet from the Battle of the Bulge, was seated at the back of the car next to my tool box on the floor. The front of the 23 was facing the open garage door.
The six volt battery was barely adiquate and I did not look forward to a hand-crank start. Fresh fuel and prime accomplished, Turn, turn turn, nothing. Turn , turn, turn, nothing. From the back of the garage "It's late."
Turn, turn, turn, nothing. "It's late!" Now I am pondering everything including the comment from the owner with his diminished speaking abiliy. Guessing, I advance the timing.
Turn, turn, bang bang bang and it is running. I am listening intently to the substancial mechanical noise and I hear laughter from the back of the garage. I can barely see Romane for the dust, smoke and mouse debris hanging in the air. Generations of mice nests had been discharged from the exhaust into my tool box.
A man and day I cherish.
jim
220864

[gbranham]

My ProFlo4-equipped 427's start sequence:

I turn the key, the car starts.

I know we'll never settle the carb vs EFI debate, but making the case for carbs by sharing an elaborate 'start sequence' isn't really selling anyone on carbs. That's laughable.

Greg

[Mike.Bray]

I turn the key, the car starts.

The only difference with my stack EFI engine is I push a button and it starts. And idles. And runs like stink.

220869

[Jeff Kleiner]

Personally, I wouldn't give up on the carby yet. Sometimes you just need to have a certain sequence to get the engine fired up cold. I've got a 500 cfm AVS2 on my build. Here's my cold-start sequence:

Key on, pump on
pump gas pedal 3-4 times (accelerator pumps pumping fuel into intake manifold)
crack throttle a bit, maybe 10%, hold it there
crank engine

Now, it usually fires pretty quick even after being offline for a couple months, but I still blip the throttle a bit to keep the cold engine purring. I've also got a "fast idle" knob that pulls the choke on the carb, but mine's adjusted to just bump the butterflies and not choke off the carb.

If it doesn't fire after a few cranks from the starter (around 3 seconds), I'll stop cranking, pump the gas a couple more times, crack the throttle, and crank again. I've never had to do that sequence more than twice.

And if all that don't do it...............

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GwwAAOSw0Atm3CRX/s-l1600.webp

:)

Jeff

[David Ferguson]

I prefer the Aussie brand... Start Ya *******

220870

[Kivyee]

It looks like presently you have little experience with this car, the carb and choke. So out goes the whole fuel system for new stuff you have little experience with.
"cold starts are finnicky" does not sound serious. If I had this project I would start with collecting baseline performance data on everything to compare against your changes. Kind of the scientific method.
jim

Yes I believe I mentioned I am in the process of having it shipped - just doing some research to start planning things out - I fully plan on spending some seat time with the carb system, and the car in general before I actually make any changes. This will actually be my first carbed vehicle - my experience is more along the lines of "driving around with a laptop collecting data logs" kind, so its where my mind goes when I'm considering modifying and subsequently tuning a car.

[Kivyee]

+1 for ProFlo4. I have it, and it's awesome. Happy to chat about it if you want more info. PM me if you want to talk shop. You might put your location in your profile, so folks near you can offer to help in person.

Greg

I seem to be unable to modify my profile at this point - I'm in Vancouver, BC. Will take you up on the offer to discuss more once I get more seat time in the car and I figure out where I want to go with it.

[Kivyee]

Personally, I wouldn't give up on the carby yet. Sometimes you just need to have a certain sequence to get the engine fired up cold. I've got a 500 cfm AVS2 on my build. Here's my cold-start sequence:

Key on, pump on
pump gas pedal 3-4 times (accelerator pumps pumping fuel into intake manifold)
crack throttle a bit, maybe 10%, hold it there
crank engine

Now, it usually fires pretty quick even after being offline for a couple months, but I still blip the throttle a bit to keep the cold engine purring. I've also got a "fast idle" knob that pulls the choke on the carb, but mine's adjusted to just bump the butterflies and not choke off the carb.

If it doesn't fire after a few cranks from the starter (around 3 seconds), I'll stop cranking, pump the gas a couple more times, crack the throttle, and crank again. I've never had to do that sequence more than twice.

Yep, that sounds about similar to what I had to do to get it started during the test drive - I do have a worry that it's going on a transporter soon and i understand they have to start the car to load/unload it which they can hopefully manage without burning out the starter.

[MikeHolt]

The ProFlo sounds closest to the system I have. The big difference being, it appears they have someone standing behind it!
I jumped onto the Pro-M train a while back. Far from the self learning system it’s touted to be. The O2 sensors failed (common problem). So, I replaced them with Zeitronics. Had to rewrite the injector slopes. The support was more of a”listen to what I’m thinking, not what I’m saying!”.
Fortunately, I found a FB group that deals with it and has some legit tuners on it. They helped me reconfigure everything and get it running smoothly.
But, I have the old software on an older laptop, with all my tune files there. In order to upgrade to the new software, you need a new adapter harness and then it takes a rewrite again. Not willing to chance screwing it up. So, if it goes out again, I’ll be replacing it!

I guess what I’m saying is, make sure it’s ProFlo and not Pro-M!

[Mike.Bray]

ProFlo is Edelbrock which now owns Comp Cams, or does Comp own Edelbrock, I can never remember. Anyway, it's a huge operation. Comp owns Fast which has very capable EFI systems although dated. My Cobra has a Fast Sportsman and runs great. Comp was on the verge of writing a very big check to update all of the Fast stuff when Edelbrock came along and now all of their efforts are going towards Edelbrock. Holley is 50%+ of the aftermarket EFI market, Edelbrock is number 2, and then there's everyone else. Within that "everyone else" are some very capable systems like Motec and unfortunately some wankers.

[RobHartley]

I seem to be unable to modify my profile at this point - I'm in Vancouver, BC. Will take you up on the offer to discuss more once I get more seat time in the car and I figure out where I want to go with it.
I sent you a PM, also in the Vancouver area.

[JMD]

I would go with an aftermarket EFI system. So far I've had good experience with my Sniper 2, but the ProFlo is probably great too. I would prefer either to the OEM for many reasons.

[gbranham]

The thought of building one of these awesome cars with the ole EEC-IV EFI system is pretty depressing, with so many better solutions on the market. And the 87 was Speed Density. Oof.

[MB750]

I find it kinda funny that I'm probably one of the younger people who've built a Cobra and I specifically wanted to experience the romanticism of carburetor ownership on something I built, yet much of the older generation just wants to press the "easy button" and have everything work perfectly.

[gbranham]

the older generation just wants to press the "easy button" and have everything work perfectly.

That's crazy, huh? I mean, why make it easy when you can experience the 'romanticism' of finnicky cold starts and 'startup sequences'? Who wants to tune from an app on a phone when you can fiddle with float bowls, screwdrivers and gas on your hands? Us old guys are way off base. :)

[MB750]

And if all that don't do it...............

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GwwAAOSw0Atm3CRX/s-l1600.webp

:)

Jeff

The only time I've ever used that stuff is to launch potatoes from my spud gun. :cool:

[MB750]

That's crazy, huh? I mean, why make it easy when you can experience the 'romanticism' of finnicky cold starts and 'startup sequences'? Who wants to tune from an app on a phone when you can fiddle with float bowls, screwdrivers and gas on your hands? Us old guys are way off base. :)

Hey, to each-his own. You do you, but at least respect someone else's desire to follow a different path.

If a couple extra steps in life is too much to bear, perhaps you shouldn't have a drivers license. ;)

[gbranham]

You're right, Matt. I'm surrendering my license and selling all my cars this weekend because I like to avoid unnecessary tedium. #rolleyes

Go back and re-read your post #25, then talk to me about respecting other's choices. You don't get it both ways. And besides, you were just asking for a ribbing when you said you wanted to 'experience the romanticism' of carburetion.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Us old guys experienced all that “romanticism” with the buckets-o-**** we drove in our youth because we didn’t have any choice. Now we do. Some of us chose to embrace new technology, some chose not to. Not really a right or wrong answer (but I have to say that the majority of carb cars that I get in are a P.I.A.).

Jeff

[rich grsc]

That's crazy, huh? I mean, why make it easy when you can experience the 'romanticism' of finnicky cold starts and 'startup sequences'? Who wants to tune from an app on a phone when you can fiddle with float bowls, screwdrivers and gas on your hands? Us old guys are way off base. :)

With age comes knowledge & wisdom

[Mike.Bray]

220920

[gbranham]

You're not being respectful, nor romantic, Mike. Sheesh. :)

Greg

[Mike.Bray]

You're not being respectful, nor romantic, Mike. Sheesh. :)

Greg

There's nothing romantic about hanging on to 19th century technology 150 years later in the 21st century to me. If that's the desire might as well go back to generators, points distributors, drum brakes, and 6V electrical systems. Could even go to a hand crank out the front for the starter.

[rthomas98]

Well this thread went off the rails quick.

I got a carb, I get it to fire and feel like I just did the Konami code (Extra 100 pts if you get the reference) every time to get it to start. However I also think about how much I have take apart and change to go EFI and decided that headache is bigger then the little one I have. So car still starts, still brings smile to my face so no EFI for me for the foreseeable future.

[gbranham]

Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A.

Greg

[MaxVmo]

And then START! Konami Code for the win!

[Kivyee]

As Papa predicted - lots of opinions on this :D. Looks like the car probably won't arrive until close to December - the joys of shipping from the East to the West coast. Sounds like it will be the EFI votes go mainly for the ProFlo4 - I will start digging into it. In the mean time I've researched correctly setting up the electric choke/idle/fast idle screws so lets see if the UUDDLRLRABABstart works for me.

In the mean time I have to find a hot rod/ubilt knowledgeable shop in the Vancouver area to do my out of province inspection - called a random local shop and they said they probably can't do it due to airbag requirements - YIKES!

[Railroad]

Float stuck on the dump truck, last month. Taught my nephew how to fix that, wrench banging on top of carb, hold the gas to the floor and clear things up. At least he will be able to handle it when I am not around.

[tundra2050]

The only difference with my stack EFI engine is I push a button and it starts. And idles. And runs like stink.

220869

That's a beautiful engine and the Webers don't even look like thyre efi. I'm hoping Holley's throttlebody efi will have the same effect.

[Redstang69]

Pretty sure I've read just as many EFI issue threads on here as I have carb tuning threads.
If it's a stock 302, just spend a minute doing some simple tweaking. I dropped a Holley 600 Street avenger on my stock 302 and only adjusted the choke. 3 pumps of the gas after it's sat and it fires right up, no playing with the throttle like some mention. Whether you tune a little with an app or with a screwdriver, odds are a little tuning will be needed.

[cv2065]

My vote would be to learn what you have before dumping a few thousand of EFI dollars into it. My car is carb based and starts with the blip of a key, even after sitting for a while. So did my last one. Carbs are simple and easy to work with.i don’t live in an elevated area, so mileage might wary.

That said, once you go down that road and still want to plum for EFI, the option is always there.

[rich grsc]

I'm an EFI guy, but I agree if you have a good running car, give it a chance.

[Mike.Bray]

That said, once you go down that road and still want to plum for EFI, the option is always there.

Holley has this regulator https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-880

Comes with two springs, a low pressure spring for carbs and a high pressure spring for when you upgrade to EFI. Go ahead and install an intank pump, 10 micron filter, and supply/return lines with this regulator and you not only have a better fuel supply system but it's ready for whatever you decide to do.

[Mike.Bray]

That's a beautiful engine and the Webers don't even look like thyre efi. I'm hoping Holley's throttlebody efi will have the same effect.

Thanks for that. Inglese makes an 8 stack EFI setup that look exactly like Webers. The classic look of Webers without the PITA;)

220949

[danmas]

Thanks for that. Inglese makes an 8 stack EFI setup that look exactly like Webers. The classic look of Webers without the PITA;)

220949
Yes, yes he does….
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209725&d=1738088055

[cv2065]

Holley has this regulator https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-880

Comes with two springs, a low pressure spring for carbs and a high pressure spring for when you upgrade to EFI. Go ahead and install an intank pump, 10 micron filter, and supply/return lines with this regulator and you not only have a better fuel supply system but it's ready for whatever you decide to do.

I use the Aeromotive X1 series which is similar.

[Mike.Bray]

Yes, yes he does….
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209725&d=1738088055

Love those! Was hoping you would jump in.

[danmas]

Love those! Was hoping you would jump in.

I’m a computer nerd so efi sings to my soul and I live at altitude so I like efi a lot. My super bike runs a carb but it’s period correct so I keep it there. Inglese makes beautiful stuff.

[Papa]

As Papa predicted - lots of opinions on this :D.

Ha! I warned you. Without throwing fuel on the fire, I thought I'd share some of my experiences with different systems I've had on my car over the last eight years.

When I bought my engine from BluePrint Engines, they were supplying them with the FAST XFI Street throttle body EFI system. BPE had supposedly worked with FAST to develop a custom tune for the system and after getting everything connected, my car started and idled on the first turn of the key! It wasn't until running the car for a while that I started developing issues. The car started running hyper-rich and was fouling plugs. After consulting with BPE, they sent me a Sniper throttle body system to replace the FAST system. Evidently, I wasn't the first to have issues with the FAST system.

After installing the Sniper (an early version, not the latest version 2), the car ran better but had some nagging issues that I fought. It too would run very rich when cold, so if I didn't get the car up to temp, it would foul the plugs as well. I started to learn how to tune the system, which led to improved performance and drivability, but still didn't solve all my complaints. I was experiencing a lot of popping on deceleration that I could tune out by adding more fuel, which caused me to run rich again. The self learning aspect of these basic EFI systems is pretty crude to say the least, and would gradually undo any adjustments I made to the fuel map over time.

Fast forward a couple of years and my car developed significant drivability issues. My fuel pump was making a lot of noise and the car was stumbling and sputtering. After dropping the tank, I discovered that my fuel was badly contaminated with something that had nearly completely clogged the inlet of the fuel pump. I replaced the pump, tank, and filter and the car was running okay, but still not right. I hired a pro tuner through the Holley forums to see if we could remote-tune the system. As the tuner was doing his thing, we discovered that the Sniper's fuel pressure regulator (internal) had failed and was allowing 100+ PSI of pressure. I replaced the internal regulator and things were better, but now I was looking at going to something a bit more high-end than a throttle body EFI.

I ended up giving Jim Inglese a call and ordering a complete new 8-stack system from him. That included the intake, Borla individual throttle bodies, distributor, ignition box, coil, and a Holley Terminator X ECU. The difference in drivability was night and day once I got the car tuned by a pro. Along the way, I fought a separate electrical connection issue that was very intermittent, but I finally resolved that this summer and the car is rock solid.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168959&d=1656945690

This is a long story that is trying to make a simple point. If you decide to go EFI eventually, do so with an understanding of what the different types of systems are, how they work, and what their benefits and limitations are.

Best of luck,
Dave

[rich grsc]

A couple more

220953220954

[Mike.Bray]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168959&d=1656945690

Papa Dave you stole my valve covers! Or did I steal yours? lol

[Mike.Bray]

How carb guys see EFI :);)

220955

[Papa]

Papa Dave you stole my valve covers! Or did I steal yours? lol

Either way ... I like them a lot.

[Duke66]

EFI is great / better for sure. But if it's a running car with a carburetor why not give it a chance first. Does it have a choke on it. There is nothing hard about cold starting a carbureted car if the choke is set properly (not talking cable choke like on a 1950's grain truck)
Cold mornings back in high school days just press the accelerator to the floor, let off, turn key and engine starts...pretty simple!
Let it idle on high idle for appropriate amount of time depending on air temperature (this knowledge comes with experience)
Quick tap of the accelerator to get it off high idle and drive away.
If you think that's too much of a process wait until you have to figure out the clutch pedal and shifter mechanisms...and then comes the steering wheel thingamajig!
Sorry...just my silly sense of humour.
I do think that some of you gentlemen have never experienced cold weather though.

Dave

[narly1]

Sounds like it will be the EFI votes go mainly for the ProFlo4 - I will start digging into it.

I used a PF4 on my 302 build. There were few things that tripped me up initially but definitely figureoutable, this coming from a novice engine guy.
Happy to discuss in detail via PM or a Teams call if you like.

Earl

[Presdough]

I had their original (Mass-Flo) system and it was garbage. The Digital/analog converter for the air flow meter failed after 150 miles. They told me that they no longer serviced them and wanted to sell me their new(Pro-M) system. I was teaching automotive at the time, and with a little help from Ford Racing my students built a very viable system.

[CW_MI]

How carb guys see EFI :);)

220955

Exactly. I was always a carb person. When I had a boat, and I was upgrading the power, I ditched the factory EFI and went with a 1050 Dominator. This was on a 700hp BBC, with a huge solid roller. That thing worked flawlessly...granted , it was an $1600 carb at the time (1998).

Then the snowmobile industry started going to fuel injection, and I was unhappy at first, then I bought a snowmobile with that new fangled efi, and found it pretty awesome. Still, it went from being able to work on and fix any issues that could happen on the side of the trail, to being towed and dropping it off at the dealership. There are always pros and cons.

So, now, on my Mk5 build (just ordered this morning), I want to go the fuel injection route...there was zero hesitation on the decision. There is a little apprehension on what to do , if any issues come up...but can't really base decisions like this on "if's", with all these new systems, the pros outweigh the cons.

The tough decisions now are which system. I originally started out thinking I'd go with the Edelbrock Pro Flow, since I wanted multi port injection. Then after helping a friend with his couple install a Sniper2, and seeing how well that worked, I'm on the fence again. Another friend that owns a shop, said he had a lot of bad luck with the Sniper, and won't even sell them anymore, and talked me into going with the Holley Terminator X. After seeing that , that will be a bit more complex, than the Sniper install...I'm back to square one.

The Edelbrock seems like a great system, that is somewhere between the Sniper and a Terminator, but lacks the support that Holley has. Right now, I could call three or four people that know how to tune, diagnose issues with the Holley stuff, I don't know single person that knows anything about the Edelbrock though.

This is kind of going back to basing a decision on a "what if"....Lol

[Mike.Bray]

Sniper 1 was very bad. Great concept, basically replace a carburetor with a throttle body EFI and make it "self tuning". Unfortunately the execution was very poor.

Sniper 2 fixes most of the issues with the Sniper 1, it's the one they should have built to begin with. The downside to the Sniper 2 is it's still a throttle body, the "self tuning" is a little iffy, and you have to buy a Hyperspark distributor if you want timing control (you do).

Terminator X is big boy stuff. Uses a throttle body and port injection. If you want timing control you need a dual sync distributor. When you get done you will have a lot of money in this system but you will have serious tuning capability and there's a lot of support out there including remote tuners. I have a Terminator X ECU I was going to retrofit to my Cobra but now I'm thinking about using it on my Camaro. I'm not sure I would recommend a Terminator X to a first time EFI guy though.

Edelbrock ProFlo4. This is a very very nice system and comes complete with intake, throttle body, port injectors, sensors, distributor, and ECU/harnesses. All for about $2600 or so. The ProFlo is about as close to plug N play as I've seen. Install it, time the distributor, enter a few parameters through your phone, and your engine will fire right up. From there pretty much check the timing and drive.

Anyone that is a carb guy that's wanting to go to EFI I steer towards the ProFlo and they're not disappointed.

Hope this helps.

[StewPididiot]

Sniper 1 has a lot of faults and I don't think it's sold anymore.

Sniper 2 is better, but it's still throttle body injection which has some limitations. It will integrate with the hyperspark for timing control.

For not much more money you can get a complete ProFlo4 which is sequential port injection and has timing control. It is by far the best way to go for what you're looking for.

We installed a Pro Flo 4 on our pushrod 302 and we absolutely love it. It's a great system. Easy to install. Starts right up. Runs the same on a cold day or a hot day.

[CW_MI]

I get how those that love carburetors can be reluctant to new technology. When they are dialed in, they work, and are simple. Although, if we had stuck to that technology, we'd never have 4000hp street cars that can run into the 5's and 250mph in the quarter mile.

I've got some friends that are old school drag racers, they run an all motor small tire class. The fast guys are running mid 7's, and they were die hard carb guys....until now. They are switching over to EFI. The technology is there, take advantage of it.

[ProfessorB]

I find it kinda funny that I'm probably one of the younger people who've built a Cobra and I specifically wanted to experience the romanticism of carburetor ownership on something I built, yet much of the older generation just wants to press the "easy button" and have everything work perfectly.

. Take heart, my friend, there are a few of us F.O.G.'s ("fantastic" old guys) who still like playing with carbs, I am NOT advocating carbs...E.F.I. is better....but for some of us, carbs is a romance and, well, a lost art we just enjoy. (Although I did laugh my **s off when I saw the pic of the starting fluid :o). Starting a carbureted engine is like intimacy with a women. You have to figure out that particular women. That's part of the fun. I probably can't easily start someone else's carb-equiped car.....but I know what my baby likes. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

[cv2065]

I get how those that love carburetors can be reluctant to new technology. When they are dialed in, they work, and are simple. Although, if we had stuck to that technology, we'd never have 4000hp street cars that can run into the 5's and 250mph in the quarter mile.

I've got some friends that are old school drag racers, they run an all motor small tire class. The fast guys are running mid 7's, and they were die hard carb guys....until now. They are switching over to EFI. The technology is there, take advantage of it.

Not an expert by any means, but according to some sources, although many drag racers have gone to EFI, there are a still many that use carbs for the simplicity. Carbs have had to evolve over time. Great article below from Engine Building magazine, which cites Tim Honeycutt running 4.20s in the 1/8 mile on a single carb, naturally aspirated setup and NHRA Chip Rumis running 6.20s in the 1/4 mile with his carb combo. Article also cites that a vast majority of drag racers, truck pullers, circle track racers, dirt track racers and offshore boat racers still run carbs.

But of course, we are, for the most part, building weekend cruisers, not drag racers. Carbs are just easy and can deliver to most of our expectations just like EFI without the extra cost or wiring. Mileage varies I'm sure in different altitudes but for the flat lands, lots of advantages for a carb setup. Nothing wrong with EFI. Holley has some interesting options coming out that bring the price much closer to a high end carb, which may pull more carb lovers to that side of the equation from a cost perspective.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2021/02/are-carburetors-still-relevant-in-racing/