Build your own 427

[danmas]

Hi,

I saw in another thread someone mentioned that they built their own engine. Something about a 427 boss short block (side eye towards Greg..). Anyway, that got me to thinking. I intend to build my own engine next time around. I was looking at a build school like class for that and I can’t find one. So two questions/requests…

Anyone know of an in person class that will teach you how to assemble a bad *** engine?

Alternatively:

Those of you engine builder types, would you post the parts you purchased/need to assemble your engine? Something like “I built a 427 that makes 550hp and these are the parts I used…..”

I could probably figure it out given enough time. That said, I would like to hear about engines you have built and your design choices….

Thanks!
Dan

[JMD]

If you're building a Boss 427 like Greg make sure you ask him about his head bolts. (Hint: make sure you get the right ones.) That is the kind of thing it would be nice to learn before building one!

[Mike.Bray]

You can look towards the end of my build thread and I spell out everything I used in my 393W engine.

It's not that difficult, obviously since I've done it.

Get these reference books. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0912656891?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title https://www.amazon.com/dp/1932494898?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Find an automotive machine shop that is experienced in performance Ford engines. You're going to need machine work done anyway and this guy is a treasure trove of information. Listen to him.

Don't buy junk. Buy Dart blocks, Scat rotating assemblies, etc. I went with Scat as they were easy to work with and built exactly what I needed. Eagle is also good as is Summit stuff.

Summit is your best friend.

Companies like Comp Cams will help you with cam selection. They know their stuff, the guy that headed up their cam development has a PHD in nuclear physics.

Engine companies like Blueprint and Prestege often put a lot of specs on their web pages that make nice cheat sheets. https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-compatible-small-blocks-427-c-i/products/psf427ctfkb https://prestigemoto.com/custom-engine/427-small-block-ford-2/

I can tell you for a 427W for a Cobra driven primarily on the street you want a forged rotating assembly, 10-10.5:1 compression ratio, hydraulic roller cam, and good flowing aluminum heads. You don't need CNC ported heads for the street so no need in spending that money. Lots of good heads like Brodix, Dart, Trick Flow, AFR, and Edelbrock. I went with these and I'm extremely satisfied with them. https://promaxxperformance.com/product/project-x-sbf-210/

Best bang for the buck and great performance for induction is the Edelbrock ProFlo4.

It's not rocket surgery, you got this.

[gbranham]

Hey Dan! I have a spreadsheet with all my engine parts; send me a PM with your email address, and I'll send it to you.

And if you want to assemble your engine next go 'round, read this book. It's where I learned. How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines: Monroe, Tom: 9780912656892: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Ford-Engines/dp/0912656891)

And I'd be more than happy to drive out to Colorado to give you a hand. Building up the engine, starting with a shortblock, is a fairly quick affair if you have all the parts already.

Greg

[gbranham]

If you're building a Boss 427 like Greg make sure you ask him about his head bolts. (Hint: make sure you get the right ones.) That is the kind of thing it would be nice to learn before building one!

Too soon, John. Too soon. LOL.

Greg

[danmas]

Hey Dan! I have a spreadsheet with all my engine parts; send me a PM with your email address, and I'll send it to you.

And if you want to assemble your engine next go 'round, read this book. It's where I learned. How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines: Monroe, Tom: 9780912656892: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Ford-Engines/dp/0912656891)

And I'd be more than happy to drive out to Colorado to give you a hand. Building up the engine, starting with a shortblock, is a fairly quick affair if you have all the parts already.

Greg

That sounds like a great weekend! Sold. I’m sure I can get a few other guys to join us (looking at you Rian, Topher, Junbug, Ralph) and we can have a blast… My dear wife is limiting me to only a few projects at a time so I will do it after I finish this current car, but I’m not too far away from that….

[danmas]

You can look towards the end of my build thread and I spell out everything I used in my 393W engine.

It's not that difficult, obviously since I've done it.

Get these reference books. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0912656891?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title https://www.amazon.com/dp/1932494898?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Find an automotive machine shop that is experienced in performance Ford engines. You're going to need machine work done anyway and this guy is a treasure trove of information. Listen to him.

Don't buy junk. Buy Dart blocks, Scat rotating assemblies, etc. I went with Scat as they were easy to work with and built exactly what I needed. Eagle is also good as is Summit stuff.

Summit is your best friend.

Companies like Comp Cams will help you with cam selection. They know their stuff, the guy that headed up their cam development has a PHD in nuclear physics.

Engine companies like Blueprint and Prestege often put a lot of specs on their web pages that make nice cheat sheets. https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-compatible-small-blocks-427-c-i/products/psf427ctfkb https://prestigemoto.com/custom-engine/427-small-block-ford-2/

I can tell you for a 427W for a Cobra driven primarily on the street you want a forged rotating assembly, 10-10.5:1 compression ratio, hydraulic roller cam, and good flowing aluminum heads. You don't need CNC ported heads for the street so no need in spending that money. Lots of good heads like Brodix, Dart, Trick Flow, AFR, and Edelbrock. I went with these and I'm extremely satisfied with them. https://promaxxperformance.com/product/project-x-sbf-210/

Best bang for the buck and great performance for induction is the Edelbrock ProFlo4.

It's not rocket surgery, you got this.

Purchased both books…. Thank you

[Nigel Allen]

Hey Dan! I have a spreadsheet with all my engine parts; send me a PM with your email address, and I'll send it to you.

And if you want to assemble your engine next go 'round, read this book. It's where I learned. How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines: Monroe, Tom: 9780912656892: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Ford-Engines/dp/0912656891)

And I'd be more than happy to drive out to Colorado to give you a hand. Building up the engine, starting with a shortblock, is a fairly quick affair if you have all the parts already.

Greg

not living in the US, I thought I would look up where you guys are. That's a 9 hour trip each way! What an awesomely generous offer Greg.

[gbranham]

not living in the US, I thought I would look up where you guys are. That's a 9 hour trip each way! What an awesomely generous offer Greg.

I love being a part of this community, and kinda like vroom vroom car stuff. Seems like a good tradeoff for a short drive. ;)

[danmas]

not living in the US, I thought I would look up where you guys are. That's a 9 hour trip each way! What an awesomely generous offer Greg.

You should come. Pick you up at the airport and I have a couple of spare bedrooms….

[narly1]

I built my own engine, a 302 though, not a 427.

It was quite the learning experience and very rewarding.

The project was documented on this forum if you're interested in reading about it.

Earl

[Nigel Allen]

You should come. Pick you up at the airport and I have a couple of spare bedrooms….

Oh man. You have no idea how much I want to do this. A road trip, build an engine, quality bloke time in the shed. It's every guys dream. Well at least the guys on this forum. Just turned 55 (but feeling young) and plan to stop working this year (has been delayed a few years, but finally think it can happen). I want to get to 2026 FFR open house and hang around for LCS. In between, it would be great to trip around, visit a few people and bum a ride or two in some cobras. Of course, I also offer the same down here. We have some truly excellent driving roads, great food and mostly great weather.

I hope you guys pull off your engine building session. It would be the best.

Cheers,

Nige

[ProfessorB]

Remember, there are two different approaches to building one. The first is to start with a bare block and assemble the crank,,,rods...pistons...etc. The second approach is to start with an assembled short block, where the block, crank, main bearings and rod bearings, pistons and rings, etc have already been fitted, measured, clearanced, balancd, assembled etc.
.
Two different approaches.

[Mike.Bray]

Remember, there are two different approaches to building one. The first is to start with a bare block and assemble the crank,,,rods...pistons...etc. The second approach is to start with an assembled short block, where the block, crank, main bearings and rod bearings, pistons and rings, etc have already been fitted, measured, clearanced, balancd, assembled etc.
.
Two different approaches.

This is a very good point. I'm about to build a 427 SBC and priced out everything from a Dart block to the rotating assembly with bearings and rings then added in machine work. I talked to Prestige Performance and they quoted me an assembled short block (Dart block) for less than I can buy the parts and machine work. As much fun as it is putting everything together I'm planning on buying the assembled short block from Prestige.

[Jeff Kleiner]

This is a very good point. I'm about to build a 427 SBC and priced out everything from a Dart block to the rotating assembly with bearings and rings then added in machine work. I talked to Prestige Performance and they quoted me an assembled short block (Dart block) for less than I can buy the parts and machine work. As much fun as it is putting everything together I'm planning on buying the assembled short block from Prestige.

Exactly! I'm doing the same. I've built a bunch of engines including the one for my own Mk3 and the ones for some of my customer builds but when pricing out all of the components plus machine work recently for my Mk5 engine I found that I can't do it for what Blueprint, Prestige, Smedling, etc. can. Unless you just want to do it for the experience or the joy of it (I don't need either any more ;)) it just doesn't make sense.

Jeff

[rthomas98]

Not sure about Colorado, but I would check a few community colleges around for a engine build school. Interesting enough Mott Community (where the F5 build school is done) does have a couple throughout the year. There is also UTI but probably not the cheapest solution with them.

[bobl]

I ask customers these questions when they come in wanting a custom engine built. 1st) What's the application, intended driving conditions, etc. 2nd) what is the HP/TQ goals and Max RPM? 3rd) What's the budget? With this information you can then establish the kind and quality of parts needed to meet that goal. Most crate engines use the least expensive parts they can get by with. If you as the builder do your homework you'll probably end up using better quality parts. No, I can't compete with a crate engine on price, but i certainly build a much better engine because I spend the time to get the best part for the application and carefully assemble and measure every component.. I've repaired quite a few crate engines that failed. some of the parts used are laughable. There are several of us on here that can give you good recommendation if we get all the requirements., or we may tell you they are unrealistic. Probably no 2 of us will give you the same recommendation. Choose wisely!

Bob

[Mike.Bray]

Exactly! I'm doing the same. I've built a bunch of engines including the one for my own Mk3 and the ones for some of my customer builds but when pricing out all of the components plus machine work recently for my Mk5 engine I found that I can't do it for what Blueprint, Prestige, Smedling, etc. can. Unless you just want to do it for the experience or the joy of it (I don't need either any more ;)) it just doesn't make sense.

I went to Blueprint first but they seem to be more production/catalog orientated and what I want specifically they wouldn't do. Prestige is more of a custom engine shop and will build you exactly what you want. I haven't talked to Smedling.

[danmas]

I just finished reading “How to rebuild the small block ford” by George Reid. Thanks Mike B for the suggestion. Link in previous comments. It is a very good read and explains a lot about engines. Easy and quick read and I highly recommend it. The Monroe version of this book arrives tomorrow and I will read that as well. Thanks to Mike and Greg for that suggestion.

I was looking at engine kits and there are some great ones out there. This will be a fun project. Thinking about building a 600hp 351w and putting it in a t-bucket… chuckle. Something for Spring time.

[gbranham]

This thread has me itching to rebuild a 302, just for something to do. I have idle hands, and it's driving me nuts. Maybe I'll find a donor Fox 302, rebuild it with mild cam and heads, and all the consumables, and find a buyer here on the forum. I did this very thing years ago on the old forum and documented the rebuild with pics and a narrative. A lot of folks new to engine building (or rebuilding) found it pretty helpful. I'd sell it for what I have in it, if anyone's interested...:)

Greg

[Mike.Bray]

Thinking about building a 600hp 351w and putting it in a t-bucket… chuckle. Something for Spring time.

Had a T Bucket one time with a 6-71 blown SBC. Seemed like it was a rain magnet for some reason.

How do you know when a T Bucket is finished? When the For Sale sign goes on it;)

[Jeff Kleiner]

This thread has me itching to rebuild a 302, just for something to do. I have idle hands, and it's driving me nuts. Maybe I'll find a donor Fox 302, rebuild it with mild cam and heads, and all the consumables, and find a buyer here on the forum. I did this very thing years ago on the old forum and documented the rebuild with pics and a narrative. A lot of folks new to engine building (or rebuilding) found it pretty helpful. I'd sell it for what I have in it, if anyone's interested...:)

Greg

You'd pretty much have to Greg because you realistically wouldn't be able to pay your time and labor for the reasons that Mike and I said earlier.

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Had a T Bucket one time with a 6-71 blown SBC. Seemed like it was a rain magnet for some reason.

Should have installed that engine in a Hugo, would have been abetter investment .

[bobl]

You'd pretty much have to Greg because you realistically wouldn't be able to pay your time and labor for the reasons that Mike and I said earlier.

Jeff

I quote a flat rate to build and dyno tune an engine. I'll give an estimate on parts and machine work, but it is what it is and they know that going in.

Bob

[gbranham]

You'd pretty much have to Greg because you realistically wouldn't be able to pay your time and labor for the reasons that Mike and I said earlier.

Jeff

Yep. I have no delusions of making money. I'd do it to keep my hands busy and to help the forum.

[danmas]

Yep. I have no delusions of making money. I'd do it to keep my hands busy and to help the forum.

I’m sure I can buy an engine for less then I will spend to build it. Kind of like my roadster. For me the fun is learning new things, solving problems and knowing that I built it (or assembled it). I get it!

[Justin]

There are definitely tricks to the trade. A good machine shop goes a long ways.

It's does require quite a few specialty tools but that's part of the fun IMO.

Putting the parts together is sort of an art. But not bad. If you want 550/600hp you will need near 10.5:1 compression (about as high as you can go with 91 octane and a tight quench)a good set of 185cc or bigger heads and a supporting cam. Cubic inches helps. Getting 427ci out of a stock block is hard work. But with a Dart SHP or BOSS351 block you can go up to 460ci.

I went with a BOSS 351 block. 4.125" bore and 4" stroke.
Scat forged rotating assembly. 6.2" rods I think.
Diamond Pistons
TFS 11R 205 heads. and a TFS cam.
The list can go on. But really you need to decide your route. Learn how to use a compression ratio calculator. Then measure all the clearances, watch videos, read books, buy more tools follow torque specs. Be sure to use antisense on SS fasteners and ARP Torque lube on most other bolts that require accurate torque settings.

When filing the rings go slow. It takes a while but it's lame when you take a ring down too far.

If you go with a hydraulic cam make sure it has the right set of valve springs to go with it. Most hydraulic lifters are good to about 6500ish.

Nothing wrong with some extra oil pressure.

When torquing the intake make about 3-4 laps thought the torque pattern. The gasket compresses a lot due to the intake design.

Use silicon on the china walls.

Don't use Cork anywhere.

[Cobraman]

If you're interested in a parts breakdown and cost of my recent 408 build PM me I'll send you my complete Invoice as of recent.

[danmas]

Pm sent

[Jeff Kleiner]

Coincidentally I was going through my receipt drawer in my toolbox yesterday and came across the bundle of invoices from when I built the engine for my Mk3 back in 2007. Oh to have those prices back! Trick Flow top end with Twisted Wedge heads, upgraded valve springs, Stage 1 cam, roller lifters, pushrods, Roller rockers, roller timing chain and gears, upper and lower intake, gaskets and valve covers was just under $2,500. A set of 24# injectors was $239. Machine shop total for boring 8 cylinders, cam bearings and freeze plugs, hot tanking, resizing the rods, installing new ARP bolts and pressing on new pistons came to $553. I didn't find the invoice for pistons, rings and bearings but I think they were in the neighborhood of 600. I do remember that the whole deal came under 5 grand all in. If we could still do it for anywhere close to that I'd build my own again!

Jeff

[danmas]

This was a really fun video to watch. For those of us that haven’t built an engine, this tear down shows a lot of info.


https://youtu.be/kNUXIzHz3fk

[Mike.Bray]

Exactly! I'm doing the same. I've built a bunch of engines including the one for my own Mk3 and the ones for some of my customer builds but when pricing out all of the components plus machine work recently for my Mk5 engine I found that I can't do it for what Blueprint, Prestige, Smedling, etc. can. Unless you just want to do it for the experience or the joy of it (I don't need either any more ;)) it just doesn't make sense.

Jeff

Hey Jeff, based on what you said here I checked out Smeding for my 427 short block and they were a bit less than Prestige's already good price. But being here in Texas their shipping was only $100 so that's who I'm going with. Pretty much the exact same short block.

Thanks for the lead!

[tnt_motorsports]

Let me know what you think about them Mike. That's who I'm looking at for my 427 for the roadster.