Base vs complete kitÂ… the website is confusing!!

[jemorgan3]

IÂ’m on the brink of putting my deposit down, but IÂ’m a little confused about the differences between the complete and base kits.

IÂ’ve priced out both, and the base kit, with all of the items I think the complete kit comes with is still 2k cheaper. Here is a rough outline of what IÂ’m selecting:
LS mounts (LSA already in the garage)
Hydro clutch
IRS
PWS kit
A/C kit
Control arms
Cooling system
Electrical system
Driving lights
Side windows


On the complete kit, I make all the same selections to make them as similar as possible, knowing some things like cooling , control arms and electrical are already included, and the complete kit is still $2500 more.
The ordering page doesnÂ’t give a very clear picture as exactly what is in the complete kit vs what is in the base kit..

Can anyone chime in and give a newbie an idea?I tried searching, I know this is a widely discussed topic of the dead horse variety, but I was even further confused after calling ffr.. the guy I spoke with said the wilwood pedal box is only available on the complete kit, and IÂ’ve found contradicting statements here on that!

[rickshank]

I just (last month) ordered a MKV Roadster, picking it up in 2 weeks. I'm pretty internet-savvy and not a total dummy with cars. The donor/non-donor thing was very confusing. I saw a video last week from ie427 talking about the change to the MKV (this was December 2024 or so). He made it pretty clear that FF was moving away from the donor setup due to availability/pricing of the Fox body stuff and removing the "compromises" that came with that in favor of dedicated parts.

I've mentioned to FF on the phone that the order sheet (along with descriptions/pictures/options) really needs some attention.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've been through this exercise when specing out orders for customers. Are you sure that you're including everything needed to make an apples to apples comparison? Some things to keep in mind and make note of; many of the Base kit's options are either included or cost less when added to a complete kit. For example LS mounts are no cost in a complete but add $375 to a base. The IRS option in a complete kit is $2,799 and includes shocks for all 4 corners while IRS in a base kit costs $3,199 plus another $600 for front and rear shocks (that's a thousand bucks right there!). Base kit has no front brakes or spindles...to make it match the complete kit you'll need to spend $699 for spindles and $511 for the brakes, so there's another 1,200 bucks. Complete kit includes the fuel system; it'll run you $645 to add it to the base. Similarly there is no cooling system in the base kit but it is included with the complete; that's $469. Complete kit gets you a driveshaft but the base does not. Complete kit includes hood hinge but that's a $300 option on the base. Additionally lots of little nickel and dime items are included with the complete; things like horns, starter solenoid, etc. It all adds up. In the end, when it's all carefully considered there really isn't much difference and if you consider your time to be worth anything at all you'll burn that savings up chasing down parts. Just my opinion after having built roadsters both from base kits and complete kits...complete kits for me ;)

Jeff

[gbranham]

I ran through this exercise the other day to spec out a potential 3rd build, and arrived at the conclusion that the Complete Kit, for the reasons Jeff mentions, is absolutely the way to go. If memory serves, the base kit doesn't come with FFR's front tubular LCAs, either, so that's another $550 from the Parts Catalog if you want them.

[bil1024]

Go complete kit!

[Higgybulin]

Another vote for the complete kit!
Higgy

[bobl]

The only way a base kit makes sense is if you plan to use a bunch of parts other than what FFR provides.

[Sarcasticshrub]

Comparing what I wanted in my build to what the complete kit came with, I'd be replacing too many items in the complete kit with upgrades to make it worth it. No donor parts, all new. I went the base route with some upgrades (IRS, front lower control arms & passenger rollbar) and skipped the body cut-outs.

Vendors on the forum have some great upgrades, and there are many builds with lessons learned on not-so-great quality parts in the kits to replace first thing. It's your build. Decide what you want it to be, how you will drive it, and how much time/money to invest along the way. You may enjoy the hunt for parts and customizing as you read more of the build threads here.

As others have mentioned above, going the base route will most likely cost extra time and possibly more money to get to the finish line. If you are patient, parts go on sale, and folks on the forum tend to sell parts they no longer need. I think we all have a box or two of unused parts due to upgrading along the way.

[Claybuster]

I had the same thoughts (and some confusion) when ordering my MkIV. In the end, I went with the complete kit option because I wanted new parts. Yes, it adds cost, but I am so very glad that I didn't have to free up old, rusted and seized bolts, I didn't have to get out the acetylene torch, and I didn't have to dispose of the donor "carcass" when I salvaged what I needed to complete a base kit.
Have fun with your build. You won't regret the money spent!
Jason

[bil1024]

The only way a base kit makes sense is if you plan to use a bunch of parts other than what FFR provides.

Exactly, that's I what did, had some donor parts and got some parts from the forum

[michael everson]

The base kit is ok for the savvy FFR builder that understands the parts that are missing or where to source every nut and bolt. for 99% of the people the complete kit is the way to go. Even if you end up replacing some of the stuff, you will still be way ahead.
Mike

[jemorgan3]

Great responses, I really appreciate the feedback without being flamed for asking a question that is no doubt over asked! The build pages and “what’s in the kit” pages feel outdated and certainly adds to the confusion! First time FFR builder, but not new to upgrading previous cars. I think the base kit will suit my needs best, as I am going to”mostly” new parts, and more than a few of the ffr parts have as good or better aftermarket options (front lower control arms, gauges, fuel system) that I would rather go with.

Looking forward to asking a thousand more questions, and showing off the build of my future coupe!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

...more than a few of the ffr parts have as good or better aftermarket options (front lower control arms, gauges, fuel system) that I would rather go with...



Not flaming but you'd better do some more research because aside from Gordon's billet arms there are no useable aftermarket options. This is one of the advantages to the complete kit; the parts will all fit and work together. Often times guys go "off the reservation" and end up buying incompatible parts.

Good luck,
Jeff

[nuhale]

I can speak from my recent experience on this with base vs complete coupe kit. I opted to go base but have been resourcing some items for some time. I can't speak for the roadster but the spindles were included. The LCA were not. I am experienced builder so sourcing some of the items was not a problem and I ended up saving a few thousand. Items like the fuel tank, IRS spindles, carpet and RF harness not included. I have enjoyed going base as I love the hunt of a good deal and have not been on a sprint to finish the project.

[edwardb]

Great responses, I really appreciate the feedback without being flamed for asking a question that is no doubt over asked! The build pages and “what’s in the kit” pages feel outdated and certainly adds to the confusion! First time FFR builder, but not new to upgrading previous cars. I think the base kit will suit my needs best, as I am going to”mostly” new parts, and more than a few of the ffr parts have as good or better aftermarket options (front lower control arms, gauges, fuel system) that I would rather go with.

Looking forward to asking a thousand more questions, and showing off the build of my future coupe!!

Factory Five has recently introduced forged aluminum control arms. Lower for the front and upper and lower for the IRS. They were provided with my 30th Anniversary Mk5 Roadster and they are absolutely first class. For the front suspension with the FFR spindles, forged aluminum LCA's, and Specialty Performance UCA's you're not going to do any better and everything fits perfectly. If you go IRS, same can be said for the rear suspension. Either the Speedhut or Autometer gauges are excellent, although they can be deleted and you can get what you want. Same for seats and fuel system. Both of which I've been known to change and upgrade. But having done this several times with base and complete kits, even with some leftover parts I still think the complete kit is the way to go and delete for credit the major parts you don't want.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216326&d=1752444730

[Rian_Colorado]

Have now done it both ways, and even though I threw out a BUNCH of stuff - I would go with the complete kit if I was to do it again

Rian

[jemorgan3]

I dont think good advice is flaming at all! I didnt realize until after I orderd the base kit that alot of aftermarket Fox/SN95 suspension parts dont work.. Ill email them and have the LCA's included this week. Overall im glad i did the base kit though, as i was planning a big fuel system upgrade to my current ZL1 Camaro, and im going to use that stuff on teh coupe, well over $2k in parts that will 100% work! There arent many options I didnt select in my kit, and I just couldnt bridge the $2500 ish gap in initial cost between the base and complete kits.

[jemorgan3]

Are the forged arms the standard now, or will do they still produce or have some new old stock in teh tubular arms? The forged stuff looks fantastic! Why did you go with the specialty performance UCA's instead of the FFR UCS's? I see you have a bit more adjustability with those...

[gbranham]

or will do they still produce or have some new old stock in teh tubular arms?

Call FFR and ask them. They should be able to tell you pretty easily.

Greg

[edwardb]

Are the forged arms the standard now, or will do they still produce or have some new old stock in teh tubular arms? The forged stuff looks fantastic! Why did you go with the specialty performance UCA's instead of the FFR UCS's? I see you have a bit more adjustability with those...

Specialty Performance front UCA's are standard on base and complete kits. Nothing special or updated there. Factory Five introduced the forged aluminum control arms with their 30th anniversary models. But I'd be shocked if they spent the engineering and tooling money to only sell with those 60 kits. Have to believe they will be standard going forward. They may have some of their in-house control arms to use up. But who knows. Should be easy to find out what will be on your kit.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you aren't the first to debate the base vs. complete kit. It's been discussed dozens of times over the years here. Overwhelmingly (and the responses in this thread support that) most agree it's basically a wash. IMO it was maybe more of a discussion in the past because FF used to be pretty rigid about their kit contents. For some years now they've allowed you to mix and match a lot more, delete things for credit, etc. So if you have specific parts you want to replace (typically major items) you can delete for credit and potentially the complete kit makes more sense. I'll be surprised if you save as much as you expect and you won't make it on the fuel system alone that you reference. Unless you buy their EFI setup (which I also don't buy because IMO there are better options) what they supply beyond the fuel tank is pretty minimal and not worth a lot. But you've clearly decided and that's OK. Enjoy the build and good luck.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Factory Five introduced the forged aluminum control arms with their 30th anniversary models...

Just for clarification; the forged arms, front and rear, were introduced with the Mk5 and are standard on all, 30th or not.

Jeff

[Nicole Smith]

Good news --the order page is getting updated with new videos explaining each option in the near future!! If you have any questions at all, the best thing to do is give the tech team a call at 508-291-3443 and they can clarify. Hope this helps!

[edwardb]

Just for clarification; the forged arms, front and rear, were introduced with the Mk5 and are standard on all, 30th or not.

Jeff

Jeff -- Thanks for the clarification and update. That makes sense and good news. Having built with the previous in-house produced control arms and now the forged ones, they are a significant upgrade. Look cool too.

[jemorgan3]

Specialty Performance front UCA's are standard on base and complete kits. Nothing special or updated there. Factory Five introduced the forged aluminum control arms with their 30th anniversary models. But I'd be shocked if they spent the engineering and tooling money to only sell with those 60 kits. Have to believe they will be standard going forward. They may have some of their in-house control arms to use up. But who knows. Should be easy to find out what will be on your kit.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you aren't the first to debate the base vs. complete kit. It's been discussed dozens of times over the years here. Overwhelmingly (and the responses in this thread support that) most agree it's basically a wash. IMO it was maybe more of a discussion in the past because FF used to be pretty rigid about their kit contents. For some years now they've allowed you to mix and match a lot more, delete things for credit, etc. So if you have specific parts you want to replace (typically major items) you can delete for credit and potentially the complete kit makes more sense. I'll be surprised if you save as much as you expect and you won't make it on the fuel system alone that you reference. Unless you buy their EFI setup (which I also don't buy because IMO there are better options) what they supply beyond the fuel tank is pretty minimal and not worth a lot. But you've clearly decided and that's OK. Enjoy the build and good luck.

If it weren't so confusing, with the "what you get" pages not being accurate and the $2k ish that no one can seem to account for when ordering the complete kit, vs a base kit with everything the complete kit comes with being selected.. I hate asking redundant, searchable questions, but with new generations and updates etc, this question is bound to be revisited often.

Good to know about the UCA's being great already, Ill give FFR a call next week to update my order to include the LCA's and Ill report back with the facts on if they are forged or not.

I deleted quite a bit, knowing I wasn't remotely interested in any of their seats, gauges, brakes or fuel injection. Now I know im not really saving any money in doing that, because what im replacing those bits with is going to be more money, but I want it to have a very specific combination when it's done.

[Derald Rice]

RE: ALUMINUM VS STEEL FRONT LCA's............

I talked to Dan @ FFR an hour ago with this question, and his answer is that the aluminum arms will most likely be
an option after the first of next year, and the tubular steel arms will continue to be the standard arms......

There are no plans to discontinue the steel arms.

Derald.

EDIT: Our conversation focused on the MK4 289 kit and not the MK5 kits...