MkV Roadster + FF-AT Gen 4 questions - related parts install questions

[dr-sicel]

I have a 30th Anniversary MkV and purchased the Gen 4 Coyote from FF - their prep on the engine looks great.

However, I’ve been stalled since they did not send any of the items not attached to the engine (fuel pump, pressure regulator, clutch switch…etc). I do have the control pack, which includes the gas pedal.

Since I’ve been waiting three weeks for FF to get me the parts, I’m trying to move ahead with “other items”.

First, I thought, I’ll do some of the other fuel work… I set up the filter, but realized I don’t know where to mount it until I have the pump and plumbing done. Nor can I put the fuel lines without knowing where they need to start and end. If there is info I’m missing on here (the manual simply says, “it depends” and included some other guidelines), please let me know. It almost seems better to put the hard lines in after the engine is in… though I really have no idea.
General question: how much of the engine prep (hoses, fuel lines, intake) can be done before installing the engine? If quite a bit, I can work on that in the meantime.

So then I thought, I’ll put the pedals together. I put the switches on pedal setup, and then the MCs, but was stalled again.
1. I’m missing the clutch switch as well as the angled metal that is used for the switch - confirm these are part of the FF-AT kit I am missing
2. When installing the MCs, there’s an issue with the instructions, which says to mark the screw hole by holding the mounting plates over where you will drill, but then mount it under. There is far less clearance on the underside so the holes don’t match up. Did they actually try this???? I mounted it over, but now may have trouble getting the switches out far enough to be activated by the pedal arms. What did y’all do?
3. Will I run into issues if I start installing the steering system before installing the pedals?

Perhaps, I thought, I can install the Coyote pedal now… which led to a couple questions:
1. I’ve regretted following their instructions about cutting things off at times, so I’d like to confirm that you do indeed rotate the actual pedal part of the gas pedal assembly 180 deg and cut the overhang from the pedal arms to shorten the overall length. The pedal appears to be fitted to the stock arm and rotating it 180 degrees makes it offset from the arm. Please advise.
2. The instructions have you cut the gas pedal assembly mounts (to the frame) so they are flush - no protrusions. It appears you only use two of the three mounting holes. Is this true? And the manual refers to drilling through the frame or some such thing, though I didn’t understand this - thoughts on this as well?

In the meantime, I thought, I could install the power steering pump and the AC compressor on the engine… but that leads to more questions:
1. I have instructions for the PS pump… but nothing came with the AC system, nor can I find anything - can someone point me to the instructions for the AC install on the engine. The manual does cover the ductwork and that sort of thing, but neither the Coyote manual or the FF manual includes that…
2. Do the PS and compressor installations change at all having both? Meaning, different belts, interference, etc?
3. Can the compressor be installed while on FF’s engine stand, or do I need it on an hoist first? The stand does seem to especially in light of having the ps pump on there. I’m not sure how they interact. Or if these compressor can be put on while on the engine stand.

Sorry for so many questions - I’ve been at all but a standstill for some weeks and I’m trying to regain some momentum here. Appreciate the thoughts and advice!

[edwardb]

You're experiencing what I caution a lot of new builders about. The good news is the FF build has a lot of flexibility regarding parts, setup, etc. The bad news is there's a lot of flexibility and not every detail will be in the build manuals or even one place. It takes some research and persistence to work it all out. So hopefully you're up for this and willing to put in the time and effort. I don't say that in a negative way. Only being realistic. I personally enjoy this aspect of the build. Some don't. Having said that, here are some responses:

1. The clutch safety switch is part of the Ford Performance control pack. If you received that, the switch should be in there. FF makes a nice 2-piece holder and actuator for the switch as part of their Coyote installation kit. If you don't have either of those yet, don't panic. They're very easily added later. Pictured in my Mk5 build thread (link in my sig line) which I'll reference several times since some of what you're asking about is already completed on my build.

2. The actual Wilwood pedal box only goes in one way (three under, one over) and there's no drilling. So I'm assuming you're talking about the triangular brace piece FF provides. It goes on top and you drill the holes in the frame cross piece. Pictures in my Mk5 build thread.

3. You can install the steering system now. I did. See my Mk5 build thread.

Coyote pedal:
1. There have been multiple methods used by FF and builders for shortening the pedal. I've done several. Just finished this up on my build as well. So I recommend the approach I took. Again, Mk5 build thread.

2. Yes you have to trim the Ford DBW pedal assembly pretty radically. See my Mk5 build thread pictures. I've confirmed this amount of trimming works and fits. The good news is that FF has finally provided a Coyote DBW mount that works, lines up, etc. Consider yourself lucky. Previous builds required mods and fabrication to get what is standard in the MK5.

Power Steering/AC.
1. You have the FF supplied optional Coyote PS? From KRC? That's an excellent system and a bolt-on to the Coyote. It can be installed without interference to the A/C compressor.

2. You have the FF supplied optional heat-A/C system? For the Coyote they supply a standard Mustang compressor and it's a direct bolt-on to the Coyote. That's the same system used in the Gen 3 Coupe which I've installed and now in its 5th driving season. I'm not aware if FF has released instructions specific to the Mk5 Roadster. Ask them. But in case not yet, the Coupe instructions will provide much of what you need. Including mounting the compressor. The sheet metal is different so ignore that part. https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/AC-HEATER-DEFROSTER-COUPE-Gen-3.pdf

I haven't dropped in my engine yet, But on the Gen 3 Coupe with the very similar chassis, the PS and A/C compressor didn't interfere with the installation.

Hope this helps. Hang in there.

[dr-sicel]

Thanks for the input on these items - ‘

Yes, the PS systems if the KRC, great - I can work on that without consideration of the compressor since they don’t seem to interact (belts etc). Not sure I can get the compressor on while on the FF engine stand. And yes, it’s the FF “option” for the AC system - looks like the coupe instruction (?!?!?) you sent has the compressor installed. Cool.

As for the “drilling” I mentioned - I attached a couple photos from the manual. You can see they have you mark the hole using the plate on one side, but then they mount the plate on the other side. This is not possible - the holes won’t match up as there is less clearance on the other side. Mounting it on the side I marked the holds means the switch is further from the pedal arm - not sure I can make this work. 217406217407

[edwardb]

Thanks for the input on these items - ‘

Yes, the PS systems if the KRC, great - I can work on that without consideration of the compressor since they don’t seem to interact (belts etc). Not sure I can get the compressor on while on the FF engine stand. And yes, it’s the FF “option” for the AC system - looks like the coupe instruction (?!?!?) you sent has the compressor installed. Cool.

As for the “drilling” I mentioned - I attached a couple photos from the manual. You can see they have you mark the hole using the plate on one side, but then they mount the plate on the other side. This is not possible - the holes won’t match up as there is less clearance on the other side. Mounting it on the side I marked the holds means the switch is further from the pedal arm - not sure I can make this work. 217406217407

I sent the link for the Coupe instructions because it's the same system and I'm not aware a similar instruction is available for the Mk5 Roadster. Most of what's in it applies although there will be some mechanical differences in how things mount, etc. Not particularly unusual for a delay in instructions when new models are introduced.

The pictures and question you list here are what you meant by point #2 previously. I misunderstood. I don't know what to say other than I've done those steps numerous times and it works OK. You have to drill the hole from the front. That's the only access. But the plate gets mounted on the back. You won't be able to properly adjust the switch if mounted on the front, as you found out. You can adjust the hole slightly if needed to get the bolt and plate to align. For clarification, on a Coyote build, you only need that plate and switch on the brake pedal. Don't install on the clutch pedal. The Coyote has it's own clutch switch that's installed up at the master cylinder. Unfortunately, not mentioned in the general assembly manual. But explained in the Coyote installation manual. Also pictured in my build thread. If you've already drilled the hole in the clutch arm, no big deal. Just don't install a switch there.

[dr-sicel]

Thanks again - and Apologies, my “note” (I.e., the “!!?!?”) in reference to the coupe was not directed at you… rather, at one of the more frustrating aspects of these builds, that I’m somehow supposed to know where to find these, and many times there are competing documentation with contradictory instructions. That said, your build thread is immensely helpful!

I got the pedal box in - I might add a washer between the clutch switch mount and the clutch MC as the rubber bellows rubs against the switch. Other than that, looks good for now knowing a lot of adjustment will be needed once all together.

Follow up - when I ordered, I did not get the remote brake booster as I thought it was an upgrade from stock power brakes. I now understand that the brakes are not power brakes w/o the remote booster option- my question is what are your thoughts on it? A worthy upgrade? If I go that route, I’m at the ideal time to get it.

Thanks!

[Reddrig]

My response is more general, I’m also a new FFR builder. I have done a fare amount of fabrication with cars and done several older project cars. When I received my 30th Anniversary kit, I was a little taken back with the lack of detail with some of directions and missing parts. After two months into my build my opinions are changing a little, I have a better understanding that the manual is a general guideline to get you in the ballpark. So many different engine combinations are now available along with all kinds of aftermarket parts you can substitute.

I’ve almost put the manual down and now just use it for reference, a lot of the systems, techniques and information is available here, YouTube and other forums. I will say I spend as much time on the computer researching as I do building. I thought this was going to be a little more by the numbers which it’s not, that being said I think I’m enjoying it more because you do have some freedom to create something unique.

If you use your search engine and simply type in your question and include Factory Five in the same search you will almost always get a forum thread related to your question, this has been a great tool for me. You might also follow Erik Treves on YouTube, he installed a coyote motor, it might give you some good information. Good luck it will get better.

[Tango]

I can confirm that on a GEN4x with a MKV neither the ac compressor nor the PS rack interfere at all with the engine install. (Neither does the alternator or starter). Be sure to remove the header studs before the engine goes in. Figure out what you are going to do with the battery. It is super tight.

[edwardb]

Follow up - when I ordered, I did not get the remote brake booster as I thought it was an upgrade from stock power brakes. I now understand that the brakes are not power brakes w/o the remote booster option- my question is what are your thoughts on it? A worthy upgrade? If I go that route, I’m at the ideal time to get it.

Thanks!

No absolute answer on this one. You'll get lots of opinions. I've done both. Power and manual brakes. I had a 20th Anniversary Roadster and now my Gen 3 Coupe with the same big Wilwoods as on the 30th Anniversary Roadster. I did not put power assist on them and I'm OK with it. The Roadster we only drove a couple years. But the Coupe is in its fifth driving season and I don't regret the decision. The big Wilwoods have plenty of stopping power. But there's no question the manual brakes have a heavier pedal than with power assist. If you want something that's boosted more in line with your daily driver, then the power brake upgrade Factory Five offers might be for you. Some will say the Wilwoods with power assist will be too sensitive, e.g. only "off-on" with limited modulation. I didn't find that to be the case with a couple of builds where I did put power assist on Wilwoods. But again, it's up to you and mainly your expectation of what the brakes should feel like. At this point, I haven't decided if I'm going to install the brake booster that Factory Five offers for the Mk5 on my build. Waiting to decide until I'm further along. You're right to say it should be added during the build. There's additional plumbing to route the front and rear brake lines to the booster plus a vacuum line from the engine. It does take up some space in an area that's already a bit tight. So that's part of the decision as well.

[dr-sicel]

Okay - so I have a Gen 4 Coyote engine from FF-AT and the FF provided KRC PS pump retrofit. The latest instructions appear to be from 2019 which predates the newer engines for which is designed. There are problematic differences, however that don’t have an obvious solution.

Two problems so far.

1. There is a bolt of some sort sticking out of the engine that must not be in previous generations as it’s not covered in the instructions. I removed it, could someone confirm that I can leave it out rather than replace it with something. It looks like a mounting bolt. In the pic, I circled the three screw mounts for the PS pump, then circled more heavily the extraneous ‘mounting’ bolt.

2. The spacers are incorrect for this application. with the longer on on the bottom right as per the instructions, or in any other position for that matter (I only added photos for the instructed version), there is leftover space in at least one of the mounts, by a good margin. In the pic, the longer spacer is the one that, well, is too short. This is a critical element as the PS pulls needs to be on the same plane as the other pulleys - so while I could fashion a spacer to take the gap, I’m not confident that it would be correct leading to pemature failure. Anyone have guidance on this????

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[bishes]

Yeah the spacer issue is something I told KRC about at the beginning of the year and back then they told me new spacers would be available "soon" but I haven't checked with them in a few months. TXeverydayDad talks about this (and his solution) in his build thread in post 35 here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?48814-TXeverydayDad-s-11001-Roadster-Coyote-build-Wiring-done!&p=575636&viewfull=1#post575636

[dr-sicel]

Yeah the spacer issue is something I told KRC about at the beginning of the year and back then they told me new spacers would be available "soon" but I haven't checked with them in a few months. TXeverydayDad talks about this (and his solution) in his build thread in post 35 here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?48814-TXeverydayDad-s-11001-Roadster-Coyote-build-Wiring-done!&p=575636&viewfull=1#post575636

Talked to both KRC and FF - KRC doesn’t have it worked out yet. They said call back every couple weeks.
FF is aware and is aware and noted they’re waiting for a KRC fix. They also sent a pic that they received from a customer - attached here. For now, I’ll wait for the proper fix as I’d rather not chance it.

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[dr-sicel]

No absolute answer on this one. You'll get lots of opinions. I've done both. Power and manual brakes. I had a 20th Anniversary Roadster and now my Gen 3 Coupe with the same big Wilwoods as on the 30th Anniversary Roadster. I did not put power assist on them and I'm OK with it. The Roadster we only drove a couple years. But the Coupe is in its fifth driving season and I don't regret the decision. The big Wilwoods have plenty of stopping power. But there's no question the manual brakes have a heavier pedal than with power assist. If you want something that's boosted more in line with your daily driver, then the power brake upgrade Factory Five offers might be for you. Some will say the Wilwoods with power assist will be too sensitive, e.g. only "off-on" with limited modulation. I didn't find that to be the case with a couple of builds where I did put power assist on Wilwoods. But again, it's up to you and mainly your expectation of what the brakes should feel like. At this point, I haven't decided if I'm going to install the brake booster that Factory Five offers for the Mk5 on my build. Waiting to decide until I'm further along. You're right to say it should be added during the build. There's additional plumbing to route the front and rear brake lines to the booster plus a vacuum line from the engine. It does take up some space in an area that's already a bit tight. So that's part of the decision as well.

Thanks - good input. In thinking about it, the car is very light and the brakes are very big. the space issue is real, I’m sure, esp with the massive Coyote engine, though I could survive a one-time install if it were the right direction. That said, I’m leaning towards staying w/o the booster at this time. Nothing final, just my current leaning. Thanks again for the thoughts.