SE Tennessee MK5 Build

[jlohse]

Hi All, my name is Josh and I am very much a newcomer to FFR. I am a lead software engineer for a major company where my team builds C++ based fraud detection systems using AI and other techniques for credit card payments. My real passion is working on cars (most of the time) so most of my spare time is mostly spent on that. Around a year ago I decided I needed a new project so I went searching for the things I know about which are JDM and Japanese cars. I did find a few things but I felt I could do something better than that.

Then came the idea of a kit car, so the research began. I stumbled across the FFR Mk5 release video and I guess the rest is history. I ordered on Feb 19th and picked up in person on April 14th, which actually due to their schedule I could have picked up 1 month prior but that was too quick for me.

216616

I'm the odd looking dude in the center with my dad on my left. The drive back home to Chattanooga was quite eventful and tiring, but we did make it home.

216617

I wasn't planning on documenting until very recently so I appologize for a major jump from raw kit to running but here was the plan for the build:

* MK5 Complete Kit
* 17" Halibrand w/ Tires
* 2006 SSR LS2 w/ 56k miles (<2% leakdown average)
* TKX GM transmission w/ Holley Bellhousing Kit
* TKX mid-shift
* Haltech Elite 2500 Standalone
* Vaporworx/Aeromotive Returnless Fuel System
* Aeromotive 345lph fuel pump
* Smiths Gauges
* Lucas switches

Current state as of last week, I have newer pictures I'll post in the next few days but it is running, hydraulics all check out and rough alignment is done so test drive is coming soon as weather is better.

216618

216619

Coming from the world of odd ball Nissans and Mazdas its nice to have parts availability but to be honest the variation in the LS platform does make things difficult sometimes. I guess the odd transitional LS2 I have is a bit of a mut with regards to sensors etc.

Lots of things left to do but all the wiring is done and works, brakes and clutch appear solid including the power brake booster. No power steering, to be honest its not really needed and I'm used to it with my dads 1967 MGB GT in the background which is around the same weight.

In any case hopefully will post more in the coming days and hope to maybe find some locals to Hamilton county or the SE Tennessee area to meetup with at some point. Also there will be lots more to come once I have a good base tune, as I have a Vortech v2 sitting in my garage that was meant for my other project but seems a better fit for this. We'll see what the future holds.

[Higgybulin]

Great progress! Welcome!
Higgy

[edwardb]

Nice work. And fast! Especially for a first timer. Good luck with the test drive and getting it finished. Yet another reminder that power steering on these cars is about front end geometry (increased caster) not effort.

[rickster991]

Nice! Hope to get my engine next week. I’m in west Carolina and a fellow software engineer, retired. You’ll be bored and have nothing to do… not really! ��

[Mike.Bray]

Yet another reminder that power steering on these cars is about front end geometry (increased caster) not effort.

Amen on that although the Cobra has a lot more rubber on the ground than the MG so PS does help with effort. Like you I started out going with manual steering but the forum convinced me otherwise. I have to say, it's one of the best decisions I made, PS makes my car an absolute joy to drive along with the (Tilton) hydraulic throwout bearing.

[Reddrig]

Looking forward to more pics, nice job!

[jlohse]

Thanks all for the feedback and welcome. I thought about it but between the water to air intercooler and the supercharger I didn't want the additional plumbing hoses etc for power steering. Maybe in the future but for now its okay and it can be added later.

A few questions though in general:

1.) How did you guys center the drivetrain, I think I'm good but was wondering if anyone had tricks as the drivetrain is offset and its hard to reference on the frame.
2.) I'm a bit concerned about the lack of gap between the RUCA and the frame even under load, anyone run into this? There really isn't much travel and it hits under full droop. Current ride height if I remember right is around 4 1/2 in front and maybe 5 1/4 in back so it can come down but still. I'm used to double adjustable coilovers where I can adjust ride height independent of preload.
216633
3.) I have a fair bit of angle of the steering wheel to the passenger side. I made some modifications to reduce it but its still there, anyone seen this before? I think the bracket for the vertically mounted bearing near the MC could move towards the passenger a bit.

Also some small updates, I did clean up some hoses in the engine bay, wiring behind the dash and started on sound deadener in the trunk area. Waiting for the weekend to test drive hopefully.
216634

216635

216636

Overall everything went together reasonably well. Also if anyone has a good shop for paint and body work in the SE Tennessee or north Georgia area please let me know.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Welcome! It's looking good :) I gave a lot of consideration to putting an LS in my Mk5 but opted to go with a stroked Windsor...nothing against the LS but I just wasn't up for the learning curve right now. Yes...power steering! If you decide to go that route and aren't up for a front dress change to accommodate an engine driven pump or don't have the room look into using a Volvo S30 electric over hydraulic power steering pump.

Carry on!

Jeff

[edwardb]

Thanks all for the feedback and welcome. I thought about it but between the water to air intercooler and the supercharger I didn't want the additional plumbing hoses etc for power steering. Maybe in the future but for now its okay and it can be added later.

A few questions though in general:

1.) How did you guys center the drivetrain, I think I'm good but was wondering if anyone had tricks as the drivetrain is offset and its hard to reference on the frame.
2.) I'm a bit concerned about the lack of gap between the RUCA and the frame even under load, anyone run into this? There really isn't much travel and it hits under full droop. Current ride height if I remember right is around 4 1/2 in front and maybe 5 1/4 in back so it can come down but still. I'm used to double adjustable coilovers where I can adjust ride height independent of preload.
3.) I have a fair bit of angle of the steering wheel to the passenger side. I made some modifications to reduce it but its still there, anyone seen this before? I think the bracket for the vertically mounted bearing near the MC could move towards the passenger a bit.


1. Don't try to "center" the drivetrain. It's designed slightly off to the right side. Leave it where it naturally falls.

2. The ride height for the rear will be around 4-1/2. About the same as the front. These don't have a ton of travel once set. You're fine. This is a proven setup. I'm not familiar with the method you're describing for setting ride height. These are done with the car sitting on the ground, measuring, and adjusting accordingly. There's a specific method if you don't have corner scales (most don't).

3. The steering wheel does point slightly off-center. You'll get used to it after about 5 minutes of driving. Really.

Too bad about power steering. Changes how the car drives and is more enjoyable. I've had both. Easy to do now but once completed I'll bet you don't. Oh well. We tried.

[jlohse]

1. Don't try to "center" the drivetrain. It's designed slightly off to the right side. Leave it where it naturally falls.

2. The ride height for the rear will be around 4-1/2. About the same as the front. These don't have a ton of travel once set. You're fine. This is a proven setup. I'm not familiar with the method you're describing for setting ride height. These are done with the car sitting on the ground, measuring, and adjusting accordingly. There's a specific method if you don't have corner scales (most don't).

3. The steering wheel does point slightly off-center. You'll get used to it after about 5 minutes of driving. Really.

Too bad about power steering. Changes how the car drives and is more enjoyable. I've had both. Easy to do now but once completed I'll bet you don't. Oh well. We tried.

1. Sorry I meant ensuring the drivetrain is parallel to the centerline. I did see the drivetrain is offset like most cars so the driveshaft has an angle to lubricate the joints, much like to match offset in the rear pumpkin. I've checked pinion and tailshaft angles and they are fairly close (-2.5deg trans and +1.5degree pinion), not as close as I'd like but we'll see how it drives.

2. I will check and adjust. For a lot of japanese coilovers they have two adjustments, one threaded collar to raise and lower the lower mounting point to adjust ride height and the other is to adjust the spring preload. Sounds like I'll have to adjust the collars here, but I'm concerned about too much preload to adjust the ride height in this case, but I might eventually have it corner balanced if I find someone to do it.

3. Thats what I figured thanks, I've made some modifications to lessen the angle a bit as it was bothering me.

As far as power steering I'm not ruling it out as your points make sense and it would be easier now than with the body on but I'll have to think about it bit and how it will interact with my current drive belt setup. I'll have to figure out which pump to use as the one that came with the engine is a monster in terms of the bracket (truck style drive belt system for the ls). I'll see how it drives around my house and make the choice then, right now caster is set to 3.5deg where I somehow managed to get it to 7deg with initial setup eyeballing which is good for PS.

[edwardb]

...2. I will check and adjust. For a lot of japanese coilovers they have two adjustments, one threaded collar to raise and lower the lower mounting point to adjust ride height and the other is to adjust the spring preload. Sounds like I'll have to adjust the collars here, but I'm concerned about too much preload to adjust the ride height in this case, but I might eventually have it corner balanced if I find someone to do it.

Again, I'm not familiar with the technique with two adjustments. For these -- once you have the coilovers installed and the suspension hanging, adjust the collars so they're just touching the springs and holding them in place. That's your starting point. When you put the car down on it's weight, you should find the ride height is too high. So adjusting the ride height will be loosening the collars. Not adding additional pre-load. Our process is to jack the car up when adjusting so it's easy to turn the collars. Then back down and check the height. The method to use if you're not corner balancing is to start with the springs just captured, as I described. Then always turn the front and rear pairs (e.g. each side) exactly the same amount. I've done this multiple times and checked with scales and they were surprisingly close.

[jlohse]

Again, I'm not familiar with the technique with two adjustments. For these -- once you have the coilovers installed and the suspension hanging, adjust the collars so they're just touching the springs and holding them in place. That's your starting point. When you put the car down on it's weight, you should find the ride height is too high. So adjusting the ride height will be loosening the collars. Not adding additional pre-load. Our process is to jack the car up when adjusting so it's easy to turn the collars. Then back down and check the height. The method to use if you're not corner balancing is to start with the springs just captured, as I described. Then always turn the front and rear pairs (e.g. each side) exactly the same amount. I've done this multiple times and checked with scales and they were surprisingly close.

Yeah I'm being stupid, that makes sense, not sure why I was thinking it was the opposite. Just not used to these style I guess. Thanks!

[jlohse]

Not made much progress in the last few days other than adding the passenger roll bar which was a fight but it fits. I'm currently looking at power steering options and so far if I go that route it will likely be an electric pump as most of the options for the LS2 corvette spacing aren't great.

So preliminary plan is:

*volvo s40 electric pump
*EPS controller from https://www.servtronic.com/collections/volvo-electro-hydraulic-pump/products/volvo-hydraulic-electric-power-steering-controller-kit-volvo-c30-c70-s40-v50
*PWM to analog converter (make one or buy it)
*Haltech to control PWM output
*SN95 or newer rack, not sure if these need spacers or not for bump steer

The benefit of this is speed sensing power steering or at a minimum I can control the pump speed (effort) via my Haltech ECU. I've had many cars with speed adjusting PS and it works nicely. The controller comes with a pot for control but I'd rather it done through the ecu if possible. It does appear these pumps need can signal in order to operate better as it seems they are fixed at 70-75% pump speed unless they have the CAN signal from other boxes in the volvo. This unit mimics that and fakes the VSS signal.
216746

Total cost is actually lower than mechanical hydraulic or at worst same cost but I will have to move around a lot of things to make a belt pump work. Even then I may run into clearance issues.

[jlohse]

Made some small progress with how the car runs by increasing the base map VE numbers for what I can. It seems that without stock exhaust or intake this engine is far more efficient than what the base map has programmed, so after changes it seems to rev up better and isn't as lean but I definitely need a dyno tune.

I started to try the clutch and transmission by pulling the car in and out of the garage but the engagement point is right at the bulkhead and grinds going into reverse. I ended up with a 13/16 master instead of the 3/4 provided by FFR so we'll see today if that helps. I need to somehow measure the throw-out bearing throw to see if its still good or not. This one is new to me as I've only ever dealt with external slaves before. This is a Hays hydraulic throw-out bearing that came with a kit for LS to TKX and its instructions weren't clear on recommended MC so went with Tiltons recommendations.

217044

I am using the ford DBW pedal with an LS2 which might seem strange, but it was just a convenience thing since its a direct fit. I did pivot the pedal slightly so the connector doesn't interfere with the steering shaft. Since I'm standalone it doesn't matter which pedal to use.

Also I did make a change to the exhaust hanger as I didn't like the original rubber bushing, so ended up with 1/2" sheet polyurethane (80 durometer) :
217043

[Mike.Bray]

I've not used the Hay's hydraulic throwout bearing but I've got a 13/16" MC for my Tilton and my clutch starts to engage with the pedal maybe an inch from the floor. I did the initial setup to have the bearing almost touching the pressure plate fingers. Of course HTBs are self adjusting but you need to start with it very close to the fingers. I wpuld make sure all of the air is out of the system and cycle it a few times before diving in.

I don't think your hanger design is providing any vibration isolation which will be a problem.

[jlohse]

Yeah I think all the air is out as I bleed multiple ways, pressure, vacuum and through the pedal.

Also the hanger design isn't mine its the FFR hanger just with polyurethane rather than rubber which seemed to sag a bit. I think its a new design for the MK5 and vibration seems fine, didn't really change much just less movement.

217045

[rponfick]

I see you have your roll bar installed. I just posted about mine not lining up, and Jeff Kleiner responded that there have been some issues on the MK5. Did yours fit together, or did you have to wack it a few times?
I also see you are not using the supplied turn signal assembly. What did you do to cover this? I am concerned about the durability also.

Thanks, Ralph

[mikey likes it!]

I live in Chapel Hill, Tn. PM me if you get out to Middle Tn.

[jlohse]

I see you have your roll bar installed. I just posted about mine not lining up, and Jeff Kleiner responded that there have been some issues on the MK5. Did yours fit together, or did you have to wack it a few times?
I also see you are not using the supplied turn signal assembly. What did you do to cover this? I am concerned about the durability also.

Thanks, Ralph

Hi Ralph, did yours look like this?:

217057

It took some patience, pulling and some deadblow action to get things to line up. The driver side lined up nicely but the passenger didn't. I think it was a combination of making sure hte straight piece was all the way down and using a small pry bar to help pull things into alignment. Maybe I can get better pictures if you want them of the general process.

As far as turn signal I need to make the cutout but need to get everything aligned before I do. I'm not too worried about durability but dont like the fit at all. Still researching alternatives as well. I got a blank dash as I'm running smiths gauges which require a tight fitting hole as the bezels are very thin, also they are metric too.

[rponfick]

Yep, sort of looks like that. More to the side than front to rear. Getting a bigger hammer. Thanks for the more pictures offer, but not sure it would help any.
Thanks, Ralph

[rponfick]

Hi Ralph, did yours look like this?:

217057

It took some patience, pulling and some deadblow action to get things to line up. The driver side lined up nicely but the passenger didn't. I think it was a combination of making sure hte straight piece was all the way down and using a small pry bar to help pull things into alignment. Maybe I can get better pictures if you want them of the general process.

As far as turn signal, I need to make the cutout but need to get everything aligned before I do. I'm not too worried about durability but dont like the fit at all. Still researching alternatives as well. I got a blank dash as I'm running smith's gauges which require a tight-fitting hole as the bezels are very thin, also they are metric too.

Well, I just tried to install the FFR supplied turn signal. First issue I noticed were weld seam lumps very near the two cancelling cam nubs, where the springs slide over. Emailed FFR to see if this is a problem.
Then this morning I decided to screw in the stalk. As reported by previous poster, the screw was very hard to screw in and then started spinning. Will not go in or out. So, really thinking about alternative now. Have seen push button with a timer. Just wondering what direction, you want to go?
My previous Mk3.1 had the toggle switches, which you always forgot to cancel. My current Mk4 has the Russ Thompson switch which works fine, but it is no longer available.
I guess I will play with something else today.
Ralph

[jlohse]

It has been a long time since I've posted and thought I'd give an update. The car has been on the road since early October with tag done in one day at the Hamilton county tag office and I received my title within 10 days. The lady at the tag office said they register these as "specially constructed" rather than replica, so the title states that plus its a 1965 Factory Five Roadster rather than a replica. So anyone in TN, it seems like there is one lady in Hamilton county tag office that knows how to deal with these FFR kits. First drive of the go-kart was late august but took awhile to get the body situated and panels all fit well enough to drive.

223314

Exhaust is completely wrapped from header to exit, wrap on headers, fiberglass/aluminum wrap on midpipe, and PTP side pipe sleeves. Intake temps stay very good and engine bay doesn't get all that hot.

Biggest pain in the *** was the windshield, it wasn't even close to fitting. I had to twist each leg > 1/4" to get it to line up with the chassis mounts which run parallel to the chassis rather than angled. I don't know why FFR didn't weld the tabs at an angle to match the windshield, maybe its a mistake with these early production cars or its normal (I should be within the first orders for the mk5). Overall I'm still not happy with how it turned out but I can tweak it later.

Now as far as driving experience, well it was actually kind of mixed early on. No mechanical or electrical issues, just the steering and suspension didn't feel right. I had some binding in the steering which was caused by bad u-joints in the steering and minor corrections to the angles reduced it but was still there. I had as suspicion it was rack related but didn't want to mess with the manual rack anymore. I decided on a used 2001 Mustang Bullitt rack (65k miles from a rear end wreck) and and ICT billet pump mount; initially I couldn't find a pump that wouldn't interfere with the frame and brake reservoirs but this worked out. I didn't want to deal with reman fiascos so went to a used OEM rack.

Install of the power steering with the car "complete" was actually very easy, far easier than every other rack I've replaced in the past. I would say it took maybe a day to get the power steering system installed and bleed. Next the alignment took the next day but again was straightforward. I did end up with the breeze rack spacers with no rack limiters other than what was on the rack which was maybe 1/4". So far zero binding or rubbing even with full lock and full wheel well lining, far better turning circle without the rack limiters in the manual rack that FFR supplied.

223315

One little hitch was steering wheel alignment which given the steering joint is now the pyramid you don't have options for straightening the steering wheel that way. I ended up drilling the hub and luckily I think at least 2 holes lined up perfectly, so just had to redrill for the others.

Now the result, well it was shocking. If it was explained better that this suspension seems to be designed around power-steering alignment then I would have taken it seriously. It totally transformed the car from dead and heavy feeling steering to tight and responsive just like I wanted from the beginning. I don't have a cooler yet but that can wait a bit, so far after the drives it doesn't appear to be an issue yet.

Some custom things I've done are a radiator nose panel out of PTFE plastic, some aluminum panels to seal off the wheel wells and one on top of the radiator. I didn't like how open the engine bay is to the road. Coolant temps have never gone over 192 (186 thermostat) so the fans have never come on unless I'm idling for > 5 min. We'll see with full summer heat how it does but so far all is well in that area.

223317
223318
223316

Lastly I made some rings with set screws to hold the center hup for the faux knockoff hubs to the wheel. Basically some wheel hub centric adapters and 10-32 set screws.
223319

This was all amazon products and took maybe an hour to make, here are the links to the things I used:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBYLMKDY
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q2N8JHX

So whats next? Well I'm not happy with the wiring harnesses I have, too short and long in the wrong places, too many connectors (weatherpack style connectors suck) and the battery is nearly impossible to get in or out. I ended up with a Antigravity ATX-20-HD which I'm hoping to fit either up front or better yet in the passenger area bolt to the top frame rails. Next is to strip the Haltech made engine harness out, remove all the nylon braid and work from there. I can't for the life of me figure out what they intended this to fit but it doesn't make sense but it is well made. There is more than enough length on the harness so I will cut the connectors off and lay out the harness the way I want it. After that I will be ditching the ron-francis harness and fuse box. I have a 8 circuit from kwik wire which I will also supplement with additional relays for the headlights.

After these winter projects I'll be off to the dyno in Atlanta to see what I can get out of this. So far I'm really impressed with the Haltech Elite series software and the ECU itself. The car is getting better and better each time I drive it as far as AFR and drivability.