Rear suspension nut/bolt questions: IRS / alumnimum control arms / Koni DAs

[dr-sicel]

Hello!

My build is coming along, albeit slowly, but I s'pose that's not a bad thing!

Front suspension is largely done and working on the rear now. differential went in, axles are good.
I have specific questions related to the pictures:

pic 3242 (or first pic): This is the rear toe adjustment to the LCA - the bar opening is too small for the LCA. I read about this in other posts and the suggestion was to expand the toe adjustment bar... I can't seem to do that. Any recommendations on expanding this without damaging it? I also used grease (per recommendation) but still can't get it in. It's the same on both sides.

pic 3241 and 3240 (2nd and 3rd pics): This is where the rear UCA mounts to the spindle. The bolt has the gold-finish, is this the correct nut? I don't have any left of the gold-finished nuts. The instructions only say "lock nut" but I there doesn't seem to be any of these either. What should I be using here? And where is it found in the boxes?

Pic 3239 (4th pic): Referencing where the coil-over shock mounts to the LCA. The instructions reference a 3.25" x 1/2" bolt. The only ones I had left (and I have been measuring as I went along to ensure I was using the correct bolts) were 3.5" and have a tighter thread pitch. Moreover, there don't seem to be associated nuts for these. Thoughts on this? specifically, are these correct and where are the nuts typically? (I've been using the IRS fastener package).

Pic 3238 and 3237 (5th and 6th pics): Referencing where the rear shock mounts to the frame - note the nut is a different color albeit actually a nylon locking nut. Confirming this is correct.



Thank you in advance!

[BRRT]

Regarding pic 1 (3242): use a piece of 3/8-16 all-thread, some heavy washers, and a couple nuts to spread the ears apart as needed. This is pretty common, as the metal pulls a bit when welded.

Fasteners have been problematic for some time. My local Ace hardware was a home away from home for some time, and still gets hit occasionally.

[dr-sicel]

Makes perfect sense. THANK YOU!

[Railroad]

Use an ajustable wrench. Close the jaws until they fit the tab. Lean the tab out until the rod end fits inside the two tabs.
The bolt, nut and washers will pull the tab back parallel with the other tab.
good luck,

[CraigS]

1-I agree w/ both the above and might combine them. If you separate the ears w/ all thread the begin to adopt a ends wider not parallel shape. Leaving the allthread in place you may be able to bend the ends back parallel either w/ a large adjustable wrench or a good sized hammer.
2,3, That is a deformed metal locking nut. It will work fine but personally I throw them in the trash. I have seen the threads at the end of too many bolts damaged if you need to remove the nut. I much prefer nylock nuts like the one in pic 5.
4- I'd hit ACE or TrueValue and grab a nylock nut for that bolt. Yeah it might be nicer to have a bolt 1/4" shorter (I have cut plenty of bolts for that reason) but it really doesn't make any difference technically.
5- As I said above I use nylocks for dang near everything. My other go to solution is a jam nut. Jam nuts, or double standard nuts, are really nice in a place where access is difficult. You can spin them on by hand and only need 1-2 turns w/ a wrench for the final tightening.

[edwardb]

Agree, use the described all thread to spread the mounting ears. I used to use a large adjustable wrench and just bend them. Works but can damage the powder coat.

Going to disagree with Craig on this one. I don't mind deformed lock nuts. That particular connection was a little problematic when this design first came out. FF issued a technical bulletin adding that big washer and said to monitor the joint for tightness. I'll take the added security of the deformed lock nut. But looking at the pictures, something isn't assembled correctly. That large rod end should be much closer to the knuckle. Which would explain your too short bolt. Check the assembly sequence and orientation of those angled mount adapters. They're clearly pictured in the manual. Also, you did drill that hole out to 5/8" per the manual, right?

Don't worry about the color of the hardware. Some will mismatch. No issue. I agree, especially for new builders, it would be a big help if the manual gave the hardware part numbers. In all cases. Not just occasionally like it is now. I mentioned this in my Mk5 build thread a few days ago. I'm nearly complete with the IRS assembly in my Mk5 build and I can confirm all the IRS hardware was included in the IRS hardware box. But also agree it takes a little searching and mixing and matching to make sure you're using the right ones.

I agree your local Ace Hardware can be a gold mine for hardware. When needed and if (big if) you know exactly what you're buying and what it's for. Side note, my local Ace hardware aisle is all Hillman brand. I think this is common for Ace, but don't that positively. I find the quality decent. Unlike what I find at big box stores which is fine for home DIY but not IMO for car builds. However, for these large suspension parts, many of them won't be in Ace or elsewhere. Unless you go to a specialty supplier. Like the large flange head bolts. I highly recommend to use only the hardware from Factory Five for the suspension. If something doesn't seem right or doesn't fit, call FFR. They will provide what you need if necessary.

[AC Bill]

This term, deformed lock nut throws me. Is this the same as what's been traditionally known as a Stover nut?

[edwardb]

This term, deformed lock nut throws me. Is this the same as what's been traditionally known as a Stover nut?

Yes. Same thing.

[rich grsc]

My opinion------"stover nuts" make for a 1 time use, far to often cause damage to the bolt. Don't like them

[dr-sicel]

Agree, use the described all thread to spread the mounting ears. I used to use a large adjustable wrench and just bend them. Works but can damage the powder coat.

Going to disagree with Craig on this one. I don't mind deformed lock nuts. That particular connection was a little problematic when this design first came out. FF issued a technical bulletin adding that big washer and said to monitor the joint for tightness. I'll take the added security of the deformed lock nut. But looking at the pictures, something isn't assembled correctly. That large rod end should be much closer to the knuckle. Which would explain your too short bolt. Check the assembly sequence and orientation of those angled mount adapters. They're clearly pictured in the manual. Also, you did drill that hole out to 5/8" per the manual, right?

Don't worry about the color of the hardware. Some will mismatch. No issue. I agree, especially for new builders, it would be a big help if the manual gave the hardware part numbers. In all cases. Not just occasionally like it is now. I mentioned this in my Mk5 build thread a few days ago. I'm nearly complete with the IRS assembly in my Mk5 build and I can confirm all the IRS hardware was included in the IRS hardware box. But also agree it takes a little searching and mixing and matching to make sure you're using the right ones.


Well… I have two bolts with no matching nuts - and they are only grade 3 (everything else was grade 5), so I am thinking I received the wrong bolts for the lower shocks. I two have two nuts with no matching bolts (same diameter but not the super tight thread pitch the grade 3 bolts have)… Either way, I can resolve. I did drill out the holes - the weirdness you see in the photo is that nothing is tightened so it’s just hanging - it goes in. Thanks for pointing it out though - it’s good to double/triple check these setups before torquing everything down - will save time down the road!

So - in putting the rear wilwood brakes together, is there supposed to be the hub ring? The front has them, they are in the instructions for the rear, but they are not in any of the boxes, so before making calls, I thought I’d ask!

Thanks!

[edwardb]

So - in putting the rear wilwood brakes together, is there supposed to be the hub ring? The front has them, they are in the instructions for the rear, but they are not in any of the boxes, so before making calls, I thought I’d ask!

Thanks!

Just installed the optional rear Wilwood big brakes on my Mk5/IRS build this morning. There's no hub ring. When you fit the rotor/hat over the IRS hub it's an exact fit without a hub ring like the front. I didn't see any mention of a hub ring for the rear brakes in the Wilwood instructions. Plus there weren't any supplied in the box.

[dr-sicel]

Just installed the optional rear Wilwood big brakes on my Mk5/IRS build this morning. There's no hub ring. When you fit the rotor/hat over the IRS hub it's an exact fit without a hub ring like the front. I didn't see any mention of a hub ring for the rear brakes in the Wilwood instructions. Plus there weren't any supplied in the box.

216374

This is the pic where I saw the hub ring for the Wilwood IRS rear - taken from:
https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Wilwood-IRS-Brakes.pdf

I’m hoping there’s no ring required - I didn’t get one either.

[Jeff Kleiner]

216374

This is the pic where I saw the hub ring for the Wilwood IRS rear - taken from:
https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Wilwood-IRS-Brakes.pdf

I’m hoping there’s no ring required - I didn’t get one either.

That is for the old T-Bird IRS, not the Mustang version.

Jeff

[dr-sicel]

That is for the old T-Bird IRS, not the Mustang version.

Jeff

Okay…so where then are the correct instructions?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Okay…so where then are the correct instructions?

Should have come with your brakes but lacking that here ya' go.

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-6661c/images/stencil/1000x1000/products/583/1014/ds1111_IPB-lg__47550.1490044426.jpg?c=2

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-6661c/images/stencil/1000x1000/products/583/1014/ds1111_IPB-lg__47550.1490044426.jpg?c=2

For more detail than that you'll probably need to download from Wilwood.

Jeff

[dr-sicel]

216594216593216595216596


Okay - a few follow up questions -

1. Confirming the correct configuration of the parking brake caliper - I ask as what I did matched the photos, but that meant the LH was on the right side and vv.
2. Confirming that the relatively little space between the tie rod end and the rotor is not an issue. Everything is assembled to instructions, just seems really close to me.
3. The instructions for the Wilwood brakes say the braided hose should have a bracket to mount one end to the chassis. Two sub questions:
A. Are the brackets shown in the two photos the correct ones? If not… please help
B. Where have y’all mounted these for the front and the rear. The photos for this weren’t particularly helpful.

Thanks! Jeff

[edwardb]

1. Correct. The separate Wilwood parking brake calipers are mounted on the opposite side from how they're marked. Follow the picture in their instructions and you'll be fine. Haven't tried, but doubt they fit any other way.
2. Don't draw any conclusions until alignment is done plus at ride height. This is a proven setup. End result is close but no interference.
3A. Yes that's the proper bracket using the plumbing pieces that came with the Wilwood braided lines.
3B. Determining the locations is actually the next step for me as well. Take a look at the locations from my Gen 3 Coupe build. Link in my sig line. That's what I'm going to use to start figuring mine out. Also somewhat affect by your planned brake line routing. There are multiple brake configurations, so there's no one size fits all and the pictures in the manual aren't necessarily the same chassis or the same brakes.

[dr-sicel]

This is most helpful, thank you Paul.
Learning a lot here - which is great. Very different than the traditional “working on cars” since you don’t see the finished product at the beginning.
I have a crate Gen 4 Coyote so your Coupe build will be helpful for that as well.
Appreciate the input on the brake routing - I’ll look at your build thread as well as do some thinking on the layout. If memory serves, setting up brake lines comes after the fuel tank install (at least in order of the manual). I’ll torque down all the rear susp components now as I am confident it’s assembled correctly.