Best conventional oil to run in a SBF Roller? [Archive]

MPTech

05-15-2025, 05:41 PM

I had my '93 SBF Roller rebuilt (bored & stroked to 347) and I've just about completed my break-in and preparing to change the oil. I stopped by the local O'Reilys to see what conventional oils they stock and was told they don't carry ANY, only blends. I was considering running Castrol GTX 10w-40 conventional, but couldn't find it at O'Reilys and I don't think NAPA carries it either (AutoZone or Amazon??). I ran Castrol GTX in my MG Midgets in college, but that was many years ago.

I see that CJPony parts recommends AMSOIL 5W-20 for all temperatures. Anyone have have experience with AMSOIL that can recommend(?)

What is the recommended oil? and where can I buy it?

Mike.Bray

05-15-2025, 05:50 PM

This could get interesting, there's lots of opinions. Almost all motor oils you can buy off the shelf are a shadow of what they used to be because of EPA requirements. For a mild street engine with a roller cam any of them are probably just fine. If you want to step up look at Driven oils.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/driven-racing-oil/part-type/engine-oil?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

If you're interested in learning more about oils than you ever thought possible Google Lake Speed Jr and watch his YouTube videos.

gbranham

05-15-2025, 05:50 PM

Oh boy. Here we go again.

Greg

MPTech

05-15-2025, 06:29 PM

Oh boy. Here we go again.

Greg

I looked for posts with "Conventional Oil" and came up empty. Have Blends completely replaced them? (I did find Conventionals available on Amazon, looking at Castrol and AMSOIL). I know I don't need Zinc, but is a Blend ok to use? I was told a long time ago to avoid Full Synthetics in an older engine.

Wow Mike.Bray! Never heard of Driven Racing Oil before and had no idea there were so many variations.
What do you run and how do you like it?

I'm sure there are lots of opinions and 95% of them are perfectly fine, just thought if I have an option I'd see what others are happy with.
Not expecting any outrageous claims: 20% better mpg, 10% HP improvement, 50% quieter engine noise, etc. Just looking for something my engine is going to be happy with. (I ran Synthetic in the original build and noticed a couple drips and blow-by, can't say for sure if they were related or just the engines age/miles showing).

Thanks guys! Always enjoy the discussions.

cv2065

05-15-2025, 06:29 PM

Agree with Mike. I was recently introduced to Valvoline VR-1 oils. I’ve seen lots of positive feedback in a variety of forums and am running the conventional 10W-30 variety myself. You can buy straight from Valvoline and the price is reasonable.

Gilmore

05-15-2025, 08:04 PM

https://shop.valvolineglobal.com/

F500guy

05-15-2025, 09:18 PM

I just got some valvoline VR-1 for my engine oil change, about 500 miles on my BPA 427. It has some ZPPD, not as much as other quality brands (<1000 ppm). Not really needed with a roller cam according to my research, but ok to run and since there is no CATS on the exhaust, not an issue. Got it from Amazon...Moderate price, not as expensive as the >1000 PPM ZDDP, but more expensive than just conventional, but there was only a couple brand that I found with "Just Conventional Oil, no ZPPD. Valvoline and penzoil that I found.

GoDadGo

05-15-2025, 09:21 PM

No, Not A Ford / All Dart 383 SBC
Rotella T5 10W30 Semi Synthetic
It stays clean and is easy to find.

Shell Rotella T5 10w30 contains a ZDDP (Zinc, Diphenyl Phosphate) additive package with 1225 ppm of zinc and 1110 ppm of phosphorus. This additive package is designed to provide excellent protection against wear, especially in engines with flat tappets and cartridge style bearings. Shell Rotella states it is a synthetic blend oil that provides hard-working protection for diesel, gasoline and natural gas engines. Rotella T5 has a higher ZDDP content than conventional automotive motor oil and offers superior protection from metal-to-metal contact. Oils with higher levels of ZDDP can cause major engine damage in the piston ringlands in boosted and/or direct injected gasoline engines.

StangRacer

05-15-2025, 10:07 PM

Like Mike said, this could get very interesting... everyone has their opinions regarding oil and without objective data such as oil analysis, accurate fuel mileage data, dyno tests, etc... it's really difficult, if not impossible, to say who is right and who is wrong.

For a street car you just want something that is going to provide wear protection and just about any modern oil will do that... be careful of oils with extremely high ZDDP. There is a point of diminishing returns when extremely high levels of ZDDP actually increases wear. The one thing you absolutely do NOT want to do is put an additive in your oil. If you are using an oil that requires an additive you are using the wrong oil. The most important thing is to make sure an oil film is maintained between the moving surfaces of your engine and to select the correct weight oil for how your engine was built.

Reach out to your engine builder and ask them what weight oil they recommend. You can get away with running really light oils with wide bearing clearances if the oil temperatures are kept within reason. However, if you try to run a heavier weight oil with tight bearing clearances it will usually lead to bearing failure. Oil not only acts as a lubricant but also as a coolant. You need oil flow over the bearing surfaces to cool the bearings and journals. Tight bearing clearances will allow you to make a little more power as you can run a really light oil and control the windage better. The problem with tight bearing clearances is everything must be spot on in regard to how round the journals of the crank are and how round the big ends of the rods stay at higher RPM. Things move around inside an engine much more than one can imagine, and the oil film is what prevents metal to metal contact when your crank starts flexing, the main caps chatter, and the rod big ends start going oblong.

Sorry to go off on a tangent... bottom line just get a good high-quality oil in the correct weight and you will have no issues. Driven oil, as Mike suggested, is about as high quality as you are going to be able to buy over the counter. Some other high-quality oils are Redline, LAT, Brad Penn and good old Mobil 1. I ran Mobil 1 5W-40 European formula in my "Camaro-Mustang Challenge" race car and the internals always looked good at the end of the year when I would go through the motor.

Namrups

05-16-2025, 09:47 AM

J R Jones

05-16-2025, 09:57 AM

Having done development at OEMs it is obvious to me that no one tests oil as extensively as OEMs. Obviously they test (mostly) their own engines and tell oil manufacturers what they want for their private label or their specified oil.
How many engine brands and types can oil manufacturers test? We found that diverse oil manufactures often copy OEM oil specifications.
With unique engines and DIY engines, YOU are testing your oil choice.
Realize that you will NEVER operate your engine as long and as severely as OEMs test, and neither do your buddies. OEMs do test to failure.
I have owned different high end (OEM) performance cars and recognize common oil recommendations, and that is the oil I adopted for my unique cars.
jim

OSU Cowboy

05-16-2025, 10:21 AM

I run Castrol GTX 10W-30 with Lucas Zinc additive and a Motorcraft FL-1A oil filter in my 347. 25K miles on it. That Lucas Zinc additive gets in your pocket a little bit, but I like that extra friction protection so staying with it.

Dave Schwaab

05-16-2025, 10:29 AM

kobra01

05-16-2025, 12:14 PM

+ 1 for Driven. 10w 40 hot rod oil. Has zinc. But with a roller you don’t need it but don’t think it can hurt.

StangRacer

05-16-2025, 01:46 PM

I have a Ford Performance Boss 460W. I was using Mobil 1 5W-30. A lifter seized and caused major damage. My builder claimed it was because I used the wrong oil. I do not have an oil cooler. Per the builder I should have been using 10W-40 with zinc.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=205323&d=1728947205
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=205325&d=1728947205
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=205324&d=1728947205

Not to be argumentative but I seriously doubt a lifter seizing in its bore had anything at all to do with the oil you were using. More than likely it was caused by insufficient clearance between the lifter and the bore. Once you have metal to metal contact the oil, no matter how much zinc - which too much can cause increased wear, is going to prevent eventual failure.

When you tore the engine down, did you have to hammer that lifter out of the bore?

rich grsc

05-16-2025, 04:17 PM

My recently completed Mk4 has a BOSS 302 crate motor, derived from the original 1969 BOSS 302. The recommended oil is a high performance oil with a high zinc content. I'm using Penn Grade 1, 10W-40. It's readily available on Amazon! My car is a street car, so the 10W-40 is fine, if you are driving harder, or in really hot weather, then you might want the 20W-50 grade. It's the zinc content that's important, it replaces the old lead in gasoline as a lubricant for things like valves.

Just NO. Lead was added to gas to improve performance and increase anti-knock characteristics by raising octane. A side benefit was a slight lubrication of the valve seats before hardened valve seats were used. Zinc is in the oil and not in the fuel so it has no benefit to the valves, it benefits the cam lobes and lifters, and a slight improvement with bearing life.

Dave Schwaab

05-16-2025, 05:30 PM

You are correct. I misspoke. I wanted to keep it simple, and messed up with my explanation.

My main point was that it is the zinc content that is important for these high performance engines.

Namrups

05-17-2025, 09:56 AM

Not to be argumentative but I seriously doubt a lifter seizing in its bore had anything at all to do with the oil you were using. More than likely it was caused by insufficient clearance between the lifter and the bore. Once you have metal to metal contact the oil, no matter how much zinc - which too much can cause increased wear, is going to prevent eventual failure.

When you tore the engine down, did you have to hammer that lifter out of the bore?

Yes, it had to be hammered out. I tend to agree with your line of thinking.

StangRacer

05-17-2025, 10:38 PM

Yes, it had to be hammered out. I tend to agree with your line of thinking.

Sorry you lost an engine... there is no worse feeing than breaking the head off a valve.

efnfast

05-18-2025, 02:14 AM

I use Amsoil for all my oil. Not because I'm a fan boy, but I have 18 cars so I want to bulk shop for filters and oil at one place and they have every blend I need. Unless an engine specs something different I just use 5w30.

Namrups

05-18-2025, 08:42 AM

Sorry you lost an engine... there is no worse feeing than breaking the head off a valve.

What tee's me off more is the fact that Ford didn't stand behind their product. They replaced the piston and conecting rod free of charge but didn't cover the cost of any other damage.

StangRacer

05-18-2025, 10:06 PM

What tee's me off more is the fact that Ford didn't stand behind their product. They replaced the piston and conecting rod free of charge but didn't cover the cost of any other damage.

Sorry to hear that... I would have been upset with their decision as well.

When I first got into drag racing, I paid to have the engine built because building the car took more time than expected... don't they always... anyway, the engine was built specifically for a heads up naturally aspirated class. On the third dyno pull the head broke off the exhaust valve in the #6 cylinder. It took out a piston, the cam, bent the pushrod, and damaged the combustion chamber much like yours. I paid for all the repairs. I had to call the engine builder a couple times a week and finally got the engine back four months later. When I went to pick it up, he told me the piston to valve clearance was a tight and to run the lash at .040. It was at that point I knew the engine wasn't going back to that clown... and this guy built engines for a Ford Pro Stock truck team before NHRA got rid of the class. On the second or third pass after putting the engine in the car it developed a bad miss. It had bent two exhaust valves. I got lucky they didn't break. That's when I started doing the engines myself. It was a very steep, and expensive, learning curve. I have boxes of bent up Ferrea valves, a broken custom crank, a couple of bent aluminum rods, and all other sorts of carnage.

Namrups

05-19-2025, 11:16 AM

Sorry to hear that... I would have been upset with their decision as well.

When I first got into drag racing, I paid to have the engine built because building the car took more time than expected... don't they always... anyway, the engine was built specifically for a heads up naturally aspirated class. On the third dyno pull the head broke off the exhaust valve in the #6 cylinder. It took out a piston, the cam, bent the pushrod, and damaged the combustion chamber much like yours. I paid for all the repairs. I had to call the engine builder a couple times a week and finally got the engine back four months later. When I went to pick it up, he told me the piston to valve clearance was a tight and to run the lash at .040. It was at that point I knew the engine wasn't going back to that clown... and this guy built engines for a Ford Pro Stock truck team before NHRA got rid of the class. On the second or third pass after putting the engine in the car it developed a bad miss. It had bent two exhaust valves. I got lucky they didn't break. That's when I started doing the engines myself. It was a very steep, and expensive, learning curve. I have boxes of bent up Ferrea valves, a broken custom crank, a couple of bent aluminum rods, and all other sorts of carnage.

If I were a lot younger I would have gone that route but at 73 that's not going to happen!!:o

Presdough

05-19-2025, 11:38 AM

20/50 Valvoline has treated me nicely for the past 50 years on both the street and strip.

Railroad

05-19-2025, 01:00 PM

Rotella 15w-40 will cover you, flat or roller.

rich grsc

05-19-2025, 05:59 PM

Also run a 15w-40 diesel oil

StangRacer

05-19-2025, 09:46 PM

Be careful with diesel oils... just cruising around at low RPM with a roller cam they probably work fine. But for higher RPM and/or a flat tappet cam with a good amount of spring pressure can lead to pre-mature wear. Diesel oils don't have as much anti-foaming additives of gas engine specific oils, are higher in detergents which can lead to acid formation and have a different formulation of zinc.

rich grsc

05-20-2025, 06:48 AM

Sorry your info is wrong. They carry the same specs for use in gasoline engines.

StangRacer

05-20-2025, 07:06 AM

Sorry your info is wrong. They carry the same specs for use in gasoline engines.

My information comes from my notes regarding a conversation with a tribologist at Redline Racing in 2016.

Mike.Bray

05-20-2025, 07:09 AM

Not trying to be Captain Obvious here but if diesel oils have the same specs as gasoline engine oils why are they labeled and marketed for diesel engines?

I don't believe they are the same.

tnt_motorsports

05-20-2025, 10:18 AM

Many HDEO had dual ratings until recently. Some manufacturers are working on regaining those dual ratings of both S (spark) and C (compression). Many HDEO oils are no longer S rated because of the higher levels of additives that can burn off and affect the modern emissions systems in today's vehicles. With our type of powertrain, I don't believe an HDEO would be a problem. I use HDEO in my OPE and plan to use it in my SBF when the time comes.

ggunter

05-20-2025, 10:38 AM

There is a thousand opinions on oil, but Lake Speed has a ton of good info on oil. He coincides with a lot of the information I got from the OEM that I work with who does enormous amounts of testing of oils and engines. Here is a good you tube video that explains ZDDP and effects of too much. https://youtu.be/8wE4Q-EETYQ

ggunter

05-20-2025, 12:06 PM

Sorry that's not the one I was wanting to show. This one is. https://youtu.be/HcJHJL5Ys-Y?si=_jSLavYtgCy8bSep

rich grsc

05-20-2025, 01:02 PM

Not trying to be Captain Obvious here but if diesel oils have the same specs as gasoline engine oils why are they labeled and marketed for diesel engines?

I don't believe they are the same.
They aren't the same.....but diesel oils meet all the same classifications of gas engines, It's right on the label, meets or exceeds--( then lists all the oil classification of the oil types ). Sure, it has more detergents than a standard oil, but that isn't going to damage the engine

FF33rod

05-20-2025, 02:37 PM

Also have a 347, hydraulic roller - builder recommended Driven HR-1 (which is 15W-50), Ideal for older engine designs that see "occasional" use including winter storage...

Steve

Mike.Bray

05-20-2025, 03:57 PM

Also have a 347, hydraulic roller - builder recommended Driven HR-1 (which is 15W-50), Ideal for older engine designs that see "occasional" use including winter storage...

Steve

You can't beat Driven oils! A good friend of mine used to work with Lake Speed and he turned me on to Driven. If Lake Speed recommends it that's all I need.

Badfish

05-20-2025, 07:35 PM

Castrol GTX, either 5W or 10W-30. 5L block. I did treat her to a Ford filter.

egchewy79

05-21-2025, 07:15 AM

My interpretation of the OP was which oil should I use for a newer engine. You'll want to use anything but full synthetic to get the piston rings to seat properly. The "best overall oil" and "how much ZDDP if any" is another debated topic. I used BR Driven oil for my break-in and first 500mi then switched over to Lucas Hot rod oil w/ ZDDP for my flat tappet cam. And avoid ZDDP if you have cats on your exhaust.

ggunter

05-21-2025, 09:48 AM

Here is another cool video from Lake Speed on ZDDP, rings, wear and maintenance. Lot of interesting knowledge.
https://youtu.be/fu7PlRsqMyA?si=mkAtCRzIqXVnysWV

GoDadGo

05-21-2025, 10:10 AM

Here is another cool video from Lake Speed on ZDDP, rings, wear and maintenance. Lot of interesting knowledge.
https://youtu.be/fu7PlRsqMyA?si=mkAtCRzIqXVnysWV

Great Information Which Makes Me Happy That I'm Running:

Rotella T5 10W30 Semi Synthetic
It stays clean and is easy to find.

I'm Really Glad That You Posted This Video!

Mike.Bray

05-21-2025, 12:48 PM

214152

UpstateCobraGuy

05-21-2025, 01:26 PM

I have an '01 Explorer 302, I run stock oil weight 5w-30 Mobil 1.

Mike.Bray

05-21-2025, 01:59 PM

I have an '01 Explorer 302, I run stock oil weight 5w-30 Mobil 1.

The OP was asking about conventional oils, Mobile 1 is synthetic. And not what it used to be BTW.

MPTech

05-21-2025, 02:12 PM

OP here: Don't know why I didn't think of this originally, I called my Engine Builder!
He suggested: Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus - 10W-30

I'm going to go his his suggestion, although I think many of the recommendations posted would be equally as good.

Thanks guys! Good conversation and Information

UpstateCobraGuy

05-21-2025, 04:33 PM

The OP was asking about conventional oils, Mobile 1 is synthetic. And not what it used to be BTW.

Guess I missed that, frankly, I haven't run a conventional oil in probably 25 years in any car I've owned. I wouldn't run that stuff in my Cobra. Ever...

Bart Carter

05-21-2025, 04:47 PM

Many engine builders suggest a conventional oil to break in their engines before switching to synthetic. Keith Craft recommended conventional oil to me for the 1st 500 miles.

cv2065

05-21-2025, 09:36 PM

Guess I missed that, frankly, I haven't run a conventional oil in probably 25 years in any car I've owned. I wouldn't run that stuff in my Cobra. Ever...

Many engine builders recommend conventional oils for break in. That includes Roush and Blueprint.

BUDFIVE

05-21-2025, 10:48 PM

CV2065, all,
……conventional oil for break-in
Brings back great memories. I was 17 when I built my first motor for my 1970 Firebird. I finished it and asked the guy at the machine shop what oil to put in it. He said, “go buy the cheapest 30W oil at the convenience store. Make sure it doesn’t have any detergents in it so the rings will seat. Dump it at 200 miles”. That was back when a can of oil was a CAN with waxy cardboard sides and metal top & bottom. I digress. Now I use Driven BR40. :)

ggunter

05-22-2025, 06:20 AM

Mike.Bray

05-22-2025, 09:04 AM

I really enjoy the videos from Lake Speed Jr. He really dives in deep and only pushes real data. He dispelled a lot of myths that I had about oil. He probably has about a hundred videos on oils. Very Interesting guy.

My friend that worked with Lake said they used to travel together. Said he lives, breathes, and eats engine oils.

JohnK

05-22-2025, 11:18 AM

I don't know why I'm wading into this, but here's my opinion FWIW.

If there was a huge difference between the various brands and types of oils, it would be very easy to prove. The inferior oils would be demonstrably worse in some sort of test that could be correlated to some important variable (engine life, performance, fuel economy, etc.). The fact that there is very little evidence along these lines, and so much opinion and misinformation essentially proves that all modern-day oils are of a good enough quality that any of them will work just fine. Just pick the correct viscosity and change your oil at some reasonable interval and you'll never be able to tell the difference from one oil to another. If it was a formula 1 engine, then sure, sweat the details. For our cars, just buy whatever brand makes you feel good, or you can get easily, or whatever criteria is important to you.

Edit: If the car/engine manufacturer has a specific spec, then follow that. My Porsche Cayman specs a "C40" oil so I use Motul 8100 in that engine.