Inside upper door seam filling and rounding

[Valkster]

Hi, all. I have several copies of threads pertaining to the body work for my MK4 in my "body work notebook", and I appreciate all of the information. I have a question about the seam on the inside of the doors, in the area where it eventually transitions into the front and rear cowling round over. Most of the posts I have viewed show this area from a distance, and it is hard to see exactly what most do here. How much of the seam that is protruding is ground down to the base surface, if any? The front and rear cowling is a full round...is this area in the doors turned into a full round with filler, or does it still maintain a vertical section in its cross section, with a radius on the top and bottom? Alternatively, does it have a vertical portion to its cross section that turns into (blends to) a full round at both ends of the door to transition to the cowlings? Any guidance would be appreciated. Pics would be golden!


213242

213243

Sincerely,
Mark

[egchewy79]

Mine’s rounded off with a similar radius at the dash. Kleiner did mine and I think he uses a section of soft tubing cut in half to form the shape.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Knock down that standing seam (yes, this actually IS a seam where the door inner and outer skins are joined unlike the mold parting lines on the body that many incorrectly refer to as seams) to flush and sand the gelcoat outward with 80. You will sometimes find concavity or voids after doing so. If you do fill to flush with HSRF. After this you begin shaping a radius with filler...like I do with most of the body I use Rage Gold because of it's viscosity and ease of shaping. With the door laying flat I slather a generous amount on the edge and then drag it rear to front with a 3" or so long piece of rubber hose split in half and cupped in my palm. I've done it "a few" times so one pass usually gets me enough so that I can make a few passes with 80 grit and be ready to mount it up and start working on shaping the door and body together but don't hesitate to hit it again if you need to.

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words so here are some to help you visualize where you're headed. First after the initial pass of filler and rough shaping:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=213253&d=1590841390

After mounting, adjusting and shaping to match the body:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212868&d=1745242612

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212869&d=1745242639

Here's a view looking into the front of a driver's side that shows the profile after shaping:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212871&d=1711316027

Finished driver's side looking in at the front edge of the door from a lower angle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212872&d=1745242766

And the finished driver's side at the rear of the door:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212873&d=1745242809

The end goal is something like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212870&d=1745242681

Hope that helps!

Jeff

[Valkster]

Thanks much, Jeff! Those are fantastic angles to show what I needed to see.

Sincerely,
Mark

[CraigS]

Realizing it was a long time ago w/ my MkII, but still a word of caution. I bought the car in primer. When I had it painted locally I asked them to smooth that area. Got it back and it looked great...for about 4 years. Then it developed a hairline crack about 4" long right in the center of that joint. So I recommend that you take off as little as possible. This is one area where filling is better than sanding down.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Realizing it was a long time ago w/ my MkII, but still a word of caution. I bought the car in primer. When I had it painted locally I asked them to smooth that area. Got it back and it looked great...for about 4 years. Then it developed a hairline crack about 4" long right in the center of that joint. So I recommend that you take off as little as possible. This is one area where filling is better than sanding down.

Counterpoint: I have cars out there that I did as long as 18 years ago and none have cracked or delaminated. I suspect that when they did your car only used filler and did not glass or use HSRF on the void.

Jeff

[CraigS]

You are probably correct Jeff.

[GoDadGo]

You are probably correct Jeff.

That is why I used FIBERTECH to fill any large voids and the upper door ears where they meet the cowl.

Since this product was made by EVERCOAT and works well with RAGE GOLD so it seemed to be a logical solution.

https://youtu.be/JwAErvc2tN4

[Valkster]

Hey, all...along the lines of this thread, at what point should I install the door latches? Is this something that plays an important role in the body fitting and sculpting, or can/should this wait until after all if aligned, gapped, and mudded?

Thanks for any insight as always,
Mark

[Jeff Kleiner]

I install and adjust the latches when doing the mock up fitting and adjustment of the doors. This can be after initial filling and rounding of the door tops but prior to doing the filler work to match the doors to the body. Final gapping comes last,, after all of the shaping and filler.

Jeff

[Rebostar]

I cant add much to what Jeff describes. I went a similar route but used aluminum tape (several layers) to create a scoffold to hold the short strand fiberglass I used for the initial build up after sanding eveything down to the glass, then did the final shaping with the Rage Gold.

Best of luck
Allyn

215246215247215248215249215250215251215252215253

[Valkster]

Hey, all. Do any of you have a picture handy of the finished inside of the door and how yours looks, interfaced with the cowl/jam area? I have the passenger door finished but this area bugs me in how it looks from inside the cockpit. I am starting to see the same as I work the driver's door. From the outside it looks nice, transitioning to the cowl nicely, but the inside view where the two parts come together needs more work on my part. Thanks for any insight.

From Allyn's post, it is the finished (after being painted) area here of his bodywork stage (6th pic) that I am talking about:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215251&d=1725750892

Sincerely,
Mark

[Jeff Kleiner]

I don't think I've ever really focused any photos on that specific area but maybe if you zoom in on this pic it will show you the general idea.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217850&d=1755785963

Jeff

217850

[Valkster]

Ah, thanks Jeff. That is what I was looking for. I thought it might be more like my sketch below and more of an interlocking overlap...I am just trying to make too much of that area.

217864

By, the way, Jeff. As I am getting closer to priming and paint, I have a question about a post I had saved where you explained to me how to retain the stripe references (body centerline) when taking the hood and trunk lid off, so you know how to reset it during painting. Below is a link to that post. I have already drilled the hole in the license plate lamp area and where the radiator opening turns under. However, I am trying to figure out how (or exactly where) to set the holes in the front of the trunk-opening flange and at the front and rear of the hood-opening flanges that I can use as a reference with the hood and trunk lid in place that I can visually see, but won't be so close to the jam of those openings that it will still be seen after paint (even with the seals). I think I am misunderstanding where they are placed or not realizing how you use those references. Do you use those holes in the opening flanges with the hood and trunk lid off of the car so you can make a temporary reference on the painted body with the string before putting the hood and trunk lid back in place? Thanks again, sorry for the all the questions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?51519-Stripe-references-before-painting

Sincerely,
Mark

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ah, thanks Jeff. That is what I was looking for. I thought it might be more like my sketch below and more of an interlocking overlap...I am just trying to make too much of that area.

217864

By, the way, Jeff. As I am getting closer to priming and paint, I have a question about a post I had saved where you explained to me how to retain the stripe references (body centerline) when taking the hood and trunk lid off, so you know how to reset it during painting. Below is a link to that post. I have already drilled the hole in the license plate lamp area and where the radiator opening turns under. However, I am trying to figure out how (or exactly where) to set the holes in the front of the trunk-opening flange and at the front and rear of the hood-opening flanges that I can use as a reference with the hood and trunk lid in place that I can visually see, but won't be so close to the jam of those openings that it will still be seen after paint (even with the seals). I think I am misunderstanding where they are placed or not realizing how you use those references. Do you use those holes in the opening flanges with the hood and trunk lid off of the car so you can make a temporary reference on the painted body with the string before putting the hood and trunk lid back in place? Thanks again, sorry for the all the questions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?51519-Stripe-references-before-painting

Sincerely,
Mark

Just getting back to this Mark and took a couple pics of one I was putting together on Friday. Yes, you pretty much have the idea on the door to cowl overlap:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217927&d=1756049496

As for reference marks. This is the location of the centerline reference hole at the front of the hood opening. When laying out for the stripes before dropping the hood or trunk lid into the openings I add pieces of tape to the body and mark the locations like I showed here. When all done this hole will either get a rubber bumper or be hidden by the weatherstrip (it's about a 50/50 chance...some need a bumper at the front, some don't)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217928&d=1756049519

The reference hole at the rear of the hood opening with a rubber bumper installed (they all get a bumper at the rear)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217929&d=1756049548

And the reference hole at the forward edge of the trunk opening. The trunk seal will ultimately cover this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217930&d=1756049569

Hope that answers your question!

Jeff

[Valkster]

Thanks much, Jeff! I have a little more work to do to get the door overlaps looking as nice as possible, but I am close. In regard to the stripe references, I had zoomed in on some of your older photos from that past link I posted, and I thought maybe you were using a tape reference on the body...I appreciate you clarifying that. I have gotten a solid 12 hours total on the car this week. That is a lot for me, and feel I am getting so close to priming in the near future (family, work, and chores permitting, lol).

Thanks again, have a great week!
-Mark