Hello, considering a roadster build

[thegoodenough]

Hi Everyone,

I'm considering a new roadster build. I'm mechanically competent, built bracket racers in high school, rebuilt a number of Alfa 2 liter engines, accidentally found myself restoring a 64 E-Type (started by helping a friend with the motor, ended up selling me the whole project), and I've been navel gazing over a factory five roadster for the past 25 years. Currently live in northern New Mexico, happy to connect up with other members if you're in NM, southern CO, or even Texas panhandle!

My goal is to do the simplest build I can possibly get away with. Carbureted 302, 5 speed, solid axle rear. I know that I know nothing, so, "simple" is relative here. I'm plowing through the build threads to learn from all the great info here. I look forward to learning from everyone.

My one question, and I don't expect an answer, so much as I'd like to hear opinions, which kit to get - the mk IV roadster or the mk V, and what about the 289 kit? I like the look of both the 427 and 289 bodies. I guess my question is are there significant differences in the kits wrt construction?

If this has been discussed, I apologize, I will also google the forums, but, just thought I'd throw that out there in my intro.

Nice to meet everyone, a little nervous about embarking on this adventure, but also excited.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Welcome!

Having built Mk3s, Mk4s and now the new Mk5 I can address your question of whether there are "significant differences in regards to construction." The answer is that between the 4 and 5 there are not as far as the chassis assembly and mechanicals are concerned. The 4 is well designed and has had over a dozen years of refinement but the 5 is equally refined right out of the gate. The chassis is entirely different but the processes and systems are the same. In some areas the 5 has been simplified. When you get to the body fitting and then body finishing that is where the 5 is significantly improved. In the end you won't be disappointed with either---good luck!

Jeff

[danmas]

Welcome! I have seen a mkV and I am currently building a mkIV. The real experts will weigh in shortly but my observations:

The mark v feels bigger and there is more room in the foot box, although according to a builder I really respect, that room may not matter a ton due to the peddle placement. The finish work seems better on the mark v meaning that it will be easier and cheaper to get the paint job you want. It also has the drop trunk and a turn signal on the column.

The mark IV has a ton more build threads and almost every problem you will run into has already been found by someone here. It also has the iconic round tubes, which I am partial to.

I’m sure others will weigh in as well.

Best of luck. It is so damn fun and you will learn so much.

Dan

[Jeff Kleiner]

... according to a builder I really respect, that room may not matter a ton due to the peddle placement.

I don't know who you were talking to Dan but the measuring tape and I both have to disagree with that. Front of the Mk4 footbox at the pedal area measures 12" whereas the Mk5 across the same point is 15"---plus back towards the driver there is an additional 2" dead pedal location.

Jeff

[thegoodenough]

Welcome!

Having built Mk3s, Mk4s and now the new Mk5 I can address your question of whether there are "significant differences in regards to construction." The answer is that between the 4 and 5 there are not as far as the chassis assembly and mechanicals are concerned. The 4 is well designed and has had over a dozen years of refinement but the 5 is equally refined right out of the gate. The chassis is entirely different but the processes and systems are the same. In some areas the 5 has been simplified. When you get to the body fitting and then body finishing that is where the 5 is significantly improved. In the end you won't be disappointed with either---good luck!

Jeff

Thanks for the clarifications on the IV vs V build. I have to admit, as @danmas mentions, the sheer number of MK IV build threads has me thinking that whatever I encounter, someone has already solved it.

As far as the Roadster vs 289 USRRC, are there major differences in the build process? As I mentioned, I'm doing the research, just thought I'd ask here.

[thegoodenough]

Welcome! I have seen a mkV and I am currently building a mkIV. The real experts will weigh in shortly but my observations:

The mark v feels bigger and there is more room in the foot box, although according to a builder I really respect, that room may not matter a ton due to the peddle placement. The finish work seems better on the mark v meaning that it will be easier and cheaper to get the paint job you want. It also has the drop trunk and a turn signal on the column.

The mark IV has a ton more build threads and almost every problem you will run into has already been found by someone here. It also has the iconic round tubes, which I am partial to.

I’m sure others will weigh in as well.

Best of luck. It is so damn fun and you will learn so much.

Dan

That's a good point about the number of people that have built a MK IV. How is your build going? I looked at your build specs, sounds great!

[danmas]

I don't know who you were talking to Dan but the measuring tape and I both have to disagree with that. Front of the Mk4 footbox at the pedal area measures 12" whereas the Mk5 across the same point is 15"---plus back towards the driver there is an additional 2" dead pedal location.

Jeff

I think it was about the positioning of the pedal and the width of your foot. No doubt that the box is wider. I think the point this guy was making is that wilwood pedal box is fixed and so even though there is more room, us big footed people are still pedal challenged. That said, I will let the guy that was telling me about it decide if he wants to chime in. All things equal I would prefer more space and the mk5 definitely does that. That said, you have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know. I defer to you…

[danmas]

That's a good point about the number of people that have built a MK IV. How is your build going? I looked at your build specs, sounds great!

Build is fun. It humbles me every day. I’m pretty much at the stage of doing things I have never done and it is slower and harder than the first part. That said, when I’m done it will be definitely a built not bought machine and I really like that.

So much fun…

[Jeff Kleiner]

I think it was about the positioning of the pedal and the width of your foot. No doubt that the box is wider. I think the point this guy was making is that wilwood pedal box is fixed and so even though there is more room, us big footed people are still pedal challenged. That said, I will let the guy that was telling me about it decide if he wants to chime in. All things equal I would prefer more space and the mk5 definitely does that. That said, you have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know. I defer to you…

Dan,
The pedal arms in the Wilwood box are fixed however the pedal pads can be adjusted left or right. With the Mk4 most everyone ends up having to move the brake pedal pad to the left to provide separation between the gas pedal and brake (some even clip the lower RH corner from the brake pedal pad). Consequently it is then necessary to move the clutch pad as far to the left as possible as well. With the wider footbox the pedal pads can be centered on the arms or separated by moving the clutch to the left and brake to the right or various combinations. This was one of my first observations when I got into the Mk5 prototype at FFR last summer. The large of foot among us will now have more options for actual pedal pad placement and will be better able to tailor it to their preference!

Jeff

[MikeD2VT]

Hi everyone.

Your post has incredible timing because I was going to write something very similar. Hopefully, I can help boost your topic.

I just joined the forum and working on my first time roadster kit order. I have similar but less experience than yourself, so I'm very interested in everyone's advice on selecting options that will offer the greatest chance of success with minimal complexity. I totally hear what you're saying, this is obviously not a lego kit, but there must be a "simplest build path" if you don't insist on customizations.

For my first build, I want to work with all new parts and just focus on the assembly direction, so I won't be using any donor parts.

This will be a casual weekend cruiser and I'm in the camp of rather 'drive a slow car fast' then 'drive a fast car slow'. (Either way, I know this car won't be slow.)

Here's my intended build sheet:
- mk4 or mk5 complete kit. I understand the newer mk5 body will be easier to work with and the chassis is stiffer and offers more interior space. Any other advantages that will make the build process easier or is the mk4 easier for a first build?
- Blueprint 302 carbureted with PS and T5 with manual release (PS will be my only "upgrade" to take advantage of positive caster benefits for tracking)
- 28 spline shaft for the T5 (I know the TKX is newer and more capable, but I have no intentions of exceeding 300HP for this build)
- 8.8" solid rear, 3-link, 11"/11.65" brakes, all from FF
- body with cutouts

Is this about as straight forward as it gets or can anyone recommend any changes to simplify a first build?
Assuming I have all the necessary tools, will the above order include everything that's needed to be ready to paint or am I missing anything that's not included in the complete kit?

Thanks for the original post and thanks for any feedback!
-Mike in Vermont



Hi Everyone,

I'm considering a new roadster build. I'm mechanically competent, built bracket racers in high school, rebuilt a number of Alfa 2 liter engines, accidentally found myself restoring a 64 E-Type (started by helping a friend with the motor, ended up selling me the whole project), and I've been navel gazing over a factory five roadster for the past 25 years. Currently live in northern New Mexico, happy to connect up with other members if you're in NM, southern CO, or even Texas panhandle!

My goal is to do the simplest build I can possibly get away with. Carbureted 302, 5 speed, solid axle rear. I know that I know nothing, so, "simple" is relative here. I'm plowing through the build threads to learn from all the great info here. I look forward to learning from everyone.

My one question, and I don't expect an answer, so much as I'd like to hear opinions, which kit to get - the mk IV roadster or the mk V, and what about the 289 kit? I like the look of both the 427 and 289 bodies. I guess my question is are there significant differences in the kits wrt construction?

If this has been discussed, I apologize, I will also google the forums, but, just thought I'd throw that out there in my intro.

Nice to meet everyone, a little nervous about embarking on this adventure, but also excited.

[danmas]

Dan,
The pedal arms in the Wilwood box are fixed however the pedal pads can be adjusted left or right. With the Mk4 most everyone ends up having to move the brake pedal pad to the left to provide separation between the gas pedal and brake (some even clip the lower RH corner from the brake pedal pad). Consequently it is then necessary to move the clutch pad as far to the left as possible as well. With the wider footbox the pedal pads can be centered on the arms or separated by moving the clutch to the left and brake to the right or various combinations. This was one of my first observations when I got into the Mk5 prototype at FFR last summer. The large of foot among us will now have more options for actual pedal pad placement and will be better able to tailor it to their preference!

Jeff

Jeff,

I learn something new every time I hear from you and others on this forum. I was fretting a bit because I dropped my foot box about 2” to give me some more room. It’s a bit much and I wasn’t sure what I was going to do to fix it. Your comment about dropping the pedals down (or up) is timely. I can drop my accelerator pedal about 1/2” which will be perfect. I have a Russ Thompson pedal. Thank you. Obvious in retrospect but in hockey we call it being puck blind. I was trying to solve the foot box problem and not the problem of how do I reach the accelerator better. Thank you again…

Dan

[edwardb]

Hi everyone.

Your post has incredible timing because I was going to write something very similar. Hopefully, I can help boost your topic.

I just joined the forum and working on my first time roadster kit order. I have similar but less experience than yourself, so I'm very interested in everyone's advice on selecting options that will offer the greatest chance of success with minimal complexity. I totally hear what you're saying, this is obviously not a lego kit, but there must be a "simplest build path" if you don't insist on customizations.

For my first build, I want to work with all new parts and just focus on the assembly direction, so I won't be using any donor parts.

This will be a casual weekend cruiser and I'm in the camp of rather 'drive a slow car fast' then 'drive a fast car slow'. (Either way, I know this car won't be slow.)

Here's my intended build sheet:
- mk4 or mk5 complete kit. I understand the newer mk5 body will be easier to work with and the chassis is stiffer and offers more interior space. Any other advantages that will make the build process easier or is the mk4 easier for a first build?
- Blueprint 302 carbureted with PS and T5 with manual release (PS will be my only "upgrade" to take advantage of positive caster benefits for tracking)
- 28 spline shaft for the T5 (I know the TKX is newer and more capable, but I have no intentions of exceeding 300HP for this build)
- 8.8" solid rear, 3-link, 11"/11.65" brakes, all from FF
- body with cutouts

Is this about as straight forward as it gets or can anyone recommend any changes to simplify a first build?
Assuming I have all the necessary tools, will the above order include everything that's needed to be ready to paint or am I missing anything that's not included in the complete kit?

Thanks for the original post and thanks for any feedback!
-Mike in Vermont

Your build is straightforward, so can only make minimal comments. I've built several Mk4's and then a Gen3 Coupe. Which has a similar chassis design as the Mk5 Roadster. There's nothing about the Mk5 that IMO would make it any harder to build. Given that it's the newest design plus has features that are mods on the Mk4 (the drop trunk is one example) I'd recommend the Mk5. I'd also recommend reconsidering your transmission choice. Nothing wrong with a T5. But the TKX is a much newer design and much more robust. You may not think you'll exceed the T5, but for the $800 or so difference, and also how that compares to the overall project cost, I think it's an easy choice. I know, simple for me to say.

One forum hint since this is your first post. I'd recommend you put a post like this into a new thread. Jumping into another person's request for feedback isn't the best way to get responses.

Good luck with your build.

[GoDadGo]

Good Morning To All But Especially To Our Newest Members,

You just got some great insight from two of my three favorite "Go To Guys" on the forum. Those fellows are Jeff Kleiner and Paul (aka: Edwardb) along with Henry (65CobraDude) who all shared with me their vast knowledge when I did my build. With that being said, any information they share with you is based on first hand knowledge.

Regarding the MK-4 versus the MK-5, I love the authentic nature of the round tube chassis; however, big fellows like my brother (6'4" with size 15 feet) will only fit well in the new MK-5. If you are taller than 5'10" with feet larger than a size 9 or 10 then look hard at the MK-5 because it is truly a revolutionary and logical evolutionary move forward and is the best of what Factory-5 has ever done. If you are 5'10" and under and like the period correct style round tube chassis then there is nothing wrong with MK-4 or 289 FIA cars.

Please do me a favor and listen to these three fellows if they share with you their insights and thoughts. They really helped me as I am sure they will help all you too.

Good Luck From The Dark Dart Side!

Steve
The Redbone Roadster #8515

January 2018 Pre-Start Walk Around Video:
https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

August 2020 Graduation Link:
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/customer-steve-l-graduates-his-mk4-roadster/

April 2024 Update Video:
https://youtu.be/iwslgKJUaKc

[MikeD2VT]

Thanks for the replies and advice guys; apologies to @thegoodenough if my post distracted from your original question, didn't mean to hijack your thread. I too am a little nervous and excited to start this project and I greatly appreciate the knowledge you're all willing to share. I'll keep this thread focused on the original question and start a new thread going forward.

I like the point of there being a lot of mk4 builds to reference, however the improved fit and finish on the mk5 body sounds like a big plus when it comes to simplifying your build. Have you thought about whether or not you want to use seat tracks and how will that affect your line of sight between the two chassis? Not sure if that helps your consideration.

Wish you the best with your build and look forward to following along if you post more.
(Thanks again for the responses to my post, and the advice using the forum! Sorry for any distraction.)

Mike

[MikeD2VT]

Thanks very much for the replies. Apologies to @thegoodenough! I didn't mean to interrupt and hijack your thread. I too am a little nervous and excited to start this project and I really liked your question about deciding where to begin. I'll stick to the original question and start a new thread as suggested, thank you for the advice.

Hi OP. I like the point about there being a lot of mk4 threads to follow, however it sounds like the body improvements with the mk5 make a strong argument to help achieve the simplest build near the end. Assuming construction is equal between the two. Have you thought about wanting to use seat tracks or not, and will that affect your line of sight? Not sure if that helps consideration.

Wish you good luck with your build and I'm interested in following along if you continue to post!
Really appreciate everyone's help, thanks for the advice with my build and on using the forum!

Mike

[thegoodenough]

Your build is straightforward, so can only make minimal comments. I've built several Mk4's and then a Gen3 Coupe. Which has a similar chassis design as the Mk5 Roadster. There's nothing about the Mk5 that IMO would make it any harder to build. Given that it's the newest design plus has features that are mods on the Mk4 (the drop trunk is one example) I'd recommend the Mk5. I'd also recommend reconsidering your transmission choice. Nothing wrong with a T5. But the TKX is a much newer design and much more robust. You may not think you'll exceed the T5, but for the $800 or so difference, and also how that compares to the overall project cost, I think it's an easy choice. I know, simple for me to say.

One forum hint since this is your first post. I'd recommend you put a post like this into a new thread. Jumping into another person's request for feedback isn't the best way to get responses.

Good luck with your build.

Good point on transmission. So, and I know there are threads on this in the forums, but, where to source the TKX and an 8.8" rear?

Is there a particular version of the TKX I should look for? I mean, I remember doing a V8 swap into a Jeep, finding the right transmission with the right tail shaft was a real production.

Same question on the 8.8" rear. I know FFR has the Moser option during the build config, and I know I could get a used one, just looking for recommendations. If I went used, will I have to narrow the rear-end to fit?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[Oshkosh Rob]

Good point on transmission. So, and I know there are threads on this in the forums, but, where to source the TKX and an 8.8" rear?

Is there a particular version of the TKX I should look for? I mean, I remember doing a V8 swap into a Jeep, finding the right transmission with the right tail shaft was a real production.

Same question on the 8.8" rear. I know FFR has the Moser option during the build config, and I know I could get a used one, just looking for recommendations. If I went used, will I have to narrow the rear-end to fit?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

I hit the easy button and called Mike Forte. He knows the machines and parts so he can make sure you have the right transmission as well as bellhousing, clutch and whatever throw out bearing style you want to go with. I also bought the 8.8" Moser from him and it had the 3rd link bracket already welded to the axle housing.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good point on transmission. So, and I know there are threads on this in the forums, but, where to source the TKX and an 8.8" rear?

Is there a particular version of the TKX I should look for? I mean, I remember doing a V8 swap into a Jeep, finding the right transmission with the right tail shaft was a real production.

Same question on the 8.8" rear. I know FFR has the Moser option during the build config, and I know I could get a used one, just looking for recommendations. If I went used, will I have to narrow the rear-end to fit?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Another recommendation for Forte. He knows these things inside and out. As to the "is there a particular version..." question the answer is yes. You'll need to take into consideration how you intend to use the car and then do the math to factor in the rear axle ratio to come up with what will be the best combination of TKX ratios for your purposes; i.e. the high ratio first gear with a low rear end ratio or vice-versa and then the same for the fifth gear ratio.

On the subject of a used rear end...these cars are designed around a Fox width 8.8 rear. Here's where it can get tricky because there is no "off the shelf" used rear end that checks all of the boxes. If you get one from a 1987-1993 V8 Mustang it will be the proper width but will have 4 lug axles and drum brakes. Virtually no one builds like that anymore so you'd end up converting to discs and 5 lug axles. One from a 1994-1998 V8 Mustang will have 5 lug axles and discs BUT will be too wide. It can be brought to the correct width without narrowing the housing but that requires changing axle shafts and using brake caliper relocating brackets. Used rear rends from 1999 up are too wide and have to have the housing cut down and axles changed. We haven't even addressed the rear end ratios yet, and as I said earlier your transmission choice will play off of the rear end ratio. The 1987-93s will either be 2.87 or 3.08 as will '94-98. There are a few '94-98 that came with 3.27. Chances are that unless you stumble across one that has 3.27s you'll end up changing the ring and pinion because even with a 3.27 first gear TKX when combined with a 2.73 or 3.08 rear it'll be pretty soft. Gets confusing don't it? :confused:

Long story short...call Mike. He'll help you put together a good combination.

Jeff