The track bug has bit. Hard.

[JohnK]

As I mentioned in this post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?51002-Skip-Barber-3-day-racing-school) previously, from the moment I made the decision to build a roadster it was one of my goals to eventually take it out on the track at Laguna Seca. However, being a somewhat cautious sort I wanted to work my way up to tracking the roadster and get some training and experience under my belt. The first step was to attend the Skip Barber racing school a few weeks ago. The next step was to get some more laps under my belt in a more benign car; something that rewards smoothness but doesn't punish beginner mistakes the way a roadster will. The obvious choice was a spec Miata, so I reached out to Lesher Motorsports and rented one of their NB spec Miata's for a Hooked On Driving track day last Friday. One unintended consequence of this little adventure so far is that the track bug has bit very, very hard. Being out on track, even in something as gutless as a Miata, where every Porsche, Corvette, BMW and Mustang blew by me on the front straight like I was standing still no matter how good or bad the driver was, was just a glorious experience. At the end of the day I was exhausted, but dying for more.

However, I realize that the roadster is not (for me at least) something I want to be tracking a lot. Maybe once or twice to check the box and get the photos, but I want something safer (i.e., roof, cage, etc.) and something where I'm not going to start questioning my life choices if I stuff it into a wall. So, those of you that track regularly, what's your track weapon of choice? What do you recommend as a good, relatively inexpensive to purchase and maintain, car. My short list at the moment is a 2015-2018 Mustang GT (gen2 coyote) or a 2009-2012 987.2 Porsche Cayman S. I'm leaning toward the Porsche at the moment, but am open to suggestions. For whatever reason, things like Miatas, Honda S2000's, GR86's and BRZ's don't really do it for me.

Anyway, here are a few photos and a short video from last Friday's track day.


https://youtu.be/fPFj_tsIU9k?si=Da4JYbqI-eucIltL

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212373&d=1744044683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212374&d=1744044683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212372&d=1744044683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212375&d=1744044683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212376&d=1744044683

[PNWTim]

I have read Grassroots Motorsports for a long time and have seen what they have chosen which fits in your "wish list" categories. I think hands down they would go with a C5 Corvette. You can go as mild or wild as you want, they are readily available and already perform fairly well stock and have massive aftermarket support. The Porsche will certainly do the job but you can multiply even the simplest adds and mods by 2X or 3X. I guess I should mention, there's always the Coupe R....

[john42]

Factory Five Challenge car! Of course! You can either build one or pickup an old spec racer for pretty cheap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lz-oWIYKz8&t=5s

I think I pass a vette or 2...

[JohnK]

Funny you mention the Corvette. When I wrote my original post, I included the following sentence: "I'm not a Chevy guy, so Corvettes are out" but I hear you, and the fact that there were a TON of Corvettes at the track day (second only to Porsches) is a testament to how good a track weapon they are. I'm a "dyed in the wool" Ford guy but I may just have to get over my dislike of the bowtie and consider a Corvette. I actually did debate long and hard about building a coupe R, but I know myself too well. Half way through the build I'd start adding all sorts of extras and by the time I was done it would be like my roadster - too emotionally attached and too nice to want to abuse on the track.

[JohnK]

Factory Five Challenge car! Of course! You can either build one or pickup an old spec racer for pretty cheap.

The 'no roof' thing kinda kills the challenge car for me. At 6'0" tall with a giant head (size 61 helmet) I don't think I pass a broomstick test in the roadster. Whatever I pick up, I'd do at least a half cage, harnesses and full containment seats.

[kurtbob]

The track bug can bite hard, and there is no 12 step program to fight the addiction! The best way to get good at track driving is with a momentum car such as a Spec Miata. I personally race a Spec Racer Ford in SCCA competition. You can usually buy a 2nd Gen SRF for less than $15,000 and have a blast as a track day car (or you can race in regional events). My car is an SRF3 (3rd Generation SRF). Even though it only has a 1.6 liter engine, my lap times are often on par with the GT class cars with 800 horsepower. I find it more fun to go fast in the corners, even though I give up top speed on the straights. My $.02.

[JohnK]

I definitely hear you on the momentum cars like the Miata. It is an absolute blast to drive. The main downside is that it's a dog on the straightaways, which means that I'm constantly giving point-by's and slowing to let people pass on nearly every straight which totally kills my rhythm. On the last session of the day I finally just let the entire group go out and then I came on the track about a minute behind them, and managed to get in 4-5 clean laps before I caught the back markers and was was caught by the front runners.

One other MAJOR consideration I forgot to mention is sound. Laguna Seca is the most strict but all the tracks around here have sound restrictions. There's no way I could go flat out in the roadster (or a coupe R) on most days without some sort of Frankenstein exhaust.

[PNWTim]

Funny you mention the Corvette. When I wrote my original post, I included the following sentence: "I'm not a Chevy guy, so Corvettes are out" but I hear you, and the fact that there were a TON of Corvettes at the track day (second only to Porsches) is a testament to how good a track weapon they are. I'm a "dyed in the wool" Ford guy but I may just have to get over my dislike of the bowtie and consider a Corvette. I actually did debate long and hard about building a coupe R, but I know myself too well. Half way through the build I'd start adding all sorts of extras and by the time I was done it would be like my roadster - too emotionally attached and too nice to want to abuse on the track.

Totally get it but hey, I'm just the opposite - 69 Camaro with an LS3 sitting next to my soon to be Coyote powered Coupe, so even die hards can change!

[Al_C]

John, I agree with your concerns about racing in an open car. I have very limited track experience (twice!) and it freaked me out being in an open car, too! I think the Porsche, Mustang, or Corvette options are all good. My only thought on the topic is which of those cars do you believe would be easier to maintain? (brakes, etc.)

[JohnK]

Al, that's a great point and definitely a consideration. Higher HP = higher cost of consumables (tires, brakes, etc.) but that's offset somewhat by the "Porsche tax".

[weendoggy]

If you're not worried about cost of the vehicle and like the Porsche, do it, or get the Mustang. I think the Porsche will be lighter, but that shouldn't hurt. Then, plan to dump a lot of money in it to meet your needs. This is where it can add up. Also, just because you have a faster car, doesn't mean you're faster. That's going to take a lot of seat time. At one time, I had my Cobra and a C5 Z06 and they were pretty much equal with me driving either one. The Z06 was a blast and didn't have a lot of "track" add-ons. They are plenty quick and for the cost now, you can do a lot with little.

Even now after years tracking, I have Miata's and Subaru's pass me, but then it becomes fun to see what they do that I don't. Sometimes I do better, sometimes not. So, just shows that having the correct car/driver can still do what you want. For me, I mostly use my '02 Mustang w/Coyote power, which made a huge impact after the swap. I have just about everything I need chassis wise and now can have fun with the newer Mustangs (that weight 1k lbs. more), with the exception of the GT350/500 and Supercharged ones. Good enough for me.

[cv2065]

The 'no roof' thing kinda kills the challenge car for me. At 6'0" tall with a giant head (size 61 helmet) I don't think I pass a broomstick test in the roadster.

LOL. Thanks for the afternoon laugh and visual John.

[Jim1855]

I have no first-hand experience of a FFR car on the track. Did drive a friend's MK4 at Grattan but that was just parade laps (60mph max). I do have a lot of track time in my previous Superformance cars.

So, here's my thoughts. Update your car to a more track orientated configuration. Not a specific track car.
Full width single roll bar with a forward-down support tube.
Oil Cooler, a proper thermostat helps
Track "friendly" but maybe not track specific brake pads
Seat, like the Kirkey Intermediate Race. The seat makes a huge difference as you don't need to "hang on for dear life" to keep from sliding around.
5-point belts minimum
An additional set of wheels with tires more suitable to tack work.
There's probably more...

Seat time in YOUR car is what counts.
You built it, you can fix it. The "cobra" is an easy car to fix. Cheaper to fix too, except for that fancy paint job.
You don't need to use all of the power. Modulation is key.

Now my own opinions.
I have no intentions of spending big money on paint. Don't care so for me bugs and stone chips are just part of the experience.
I've fallen off of every track I've been on, probably push a wee bit too hard. Lots of "agricultural" work. Never felt like it was going over. Could it? Yup sure.
Never saw one go over either, but I know that they have. The "street" is probably more dangerous than the track at least from the standpoint of the other drivers.
You'll learn a lot by driving a cobra on the track. No ninnies, no nannies just you, 4 tires and plenty of power.
Track specific training. An instructor on a new track is a good thing.

Hammer down & enjoy,
Jim

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[Bob Cowan]

I raced my FFR for about 11 years. Won 5 championships with it. Fun and challenging, but certainly not cheap. Keeping a 427W alive season to season wasn't easy.

Then I built an Exocet. The chassis is Miata, so it was easy and inexpensive to maintain. I put an LS6 in it because I wanted 400+ hp, and reliability. Even when I ran it out of oil, it still kept running. Cheaper and easier to run, and significantly faster than the FFR. I won three championships with that car.

www.racingtheexocet.com

[john42]

The 'no roof' thing kinda kills the challenge car for me. At 6'0" tall with a giant head (size 61 helmet) I don't think I pass a broomstick test in the roadster. Whatever I pick up, I'd do at least a half cage, harnesses and full containment seats.


The original owner of my car (Carl Thompson III) was 6'4". He raced in the FF Challenge series/NASA.


When I got the car I had to redo the seats as I couldn't see over the dash...

[Jeff Kleiner]

C5 Z06.

You're welcome ;)

Jeff

[JohnK]

C5 Z06.

You're welcome ;)

Jeff

(Trying REAL HARD to stomach a Chevy.... Nope. :o)

Looking at possibly bringing this little beauty home.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212429&d=1744138852

[Mark Reynolds]

How about a SBF swapped Volvo wagon :)

[Dave 53]

How much you got to spend? Not just on the car, but on a day at the track?

On a budget, a beater Miata is the answer. Not worried about purchase price, consumables, trailer and tow vehicle, track insurance (I guess a real baller can self-insure a $300,000 car) get a GT3 RS.

My personal sweet spot is my 818. A big part of it is I built it. I can drive it to the track, consumables are reasonable and it's fast! I'm not a Corvette guy either, but, I'd absolutely would consider a C5 for track duty.


https://youtu.be/1-OXeBhIWwY?si=QXRyTojLWvFbHkRW

[Bob Cowan]

Before I built my Exocet, I took a serious look at the 818. Seemed like a logical next step. There were two things that made me decide on something else.

First, I wanted a lot of power. Enough to compete in the TTU class. It's tough to build a hot Subaru engine, and expensive. No aftermarket heads, only rebuilt/modded factory. Cams were limited, and expensive.

Second, the stock oiling system is woefully inadequate for a serious track car. 1-2 people in our group blow Sub engines every season. You need a quality scavenging dry sump system, which will cost several thousand dollars.

For the occasional track or autocross day, it looks like a great car, and a lot of fun. At a minimum, you should have an oil accumulator.

[Al_C]

How about a SBF swapped Volvo wagon :)

This I have to see! Got photos? I have a mental picture, but as one who's had a string of Volvos, a FrankenVolvo could go in a lot of directions!

[Dave 53]

Before I built my Exocet, I took a serious look at the 818. Seemed like a logical next step. There were two things that made me decide on something else.

First, I wanted a lot of power. Enough to compete in the TTU class. It's tough to build a hot Subaru engine, and expensive. No aftermarket heads, only rebuilt/modded factory. Cams were limited, and expensive.

Second, the stock oiling system is woefully inadequate for a serious track car. 1-2 people in our group blow Sub engines every season. You need a quality scavenging dry sump system, which will cost several thousand dollars.

For the occasional track or autocross day, it looks like a great car, and a lot of fun. At a minimum, you should have an oil accumulator.

My car is tuned to a reliable 275 whp on 91 pump gas. The mods to my engine other than a bigger turbo and injectors are not for performance - they are for reliability. More reliable power is on the table and it's as easy as handing over a credit card. For about $30,000, I could have a track reliable 700 hp! I believe those that blow up Subaru engines do so not because it's a Subaru, but because they go for horsepower with little thought to reliability. We all know the saying. Power - Reliability - Cost. Pick two. I know nothing about Miata's, but I'd assume in this respect, they are no different than Subaru or any other manufacture. I'd be curious see the build details of the 1-2 Subarus that you see blowing up every season. I flog the living **** out of my (properly built) EJ25!

44 track days with a wet sump. Killer B pan and pickup, 11mm pump and Arctangent oil control plate which unfortunately, are no longer made. Oil pressure is fine in 7 - 10 second 1.2+g turns. When I researched an accumulator, I concluded they were a band-aid and it was better to address root causes of drops in pressure. Yes, the stock oil system in inadequate for a track car, but I have proven it can be done with a properly set up wet sump. In the Laguna video above you can see the oil pressure gauge. The top big gauge in the center counsel below the phone (the smaller gauge below it is trans temp). It holds between 50-75 psi.

Have fun with your Exocet! I always enjoy being on the track with them.

[acmikee]

I think there’s a challenge car for sale outside of Sacramento. It’s a well built car and a Series Champion.
Making sound at Laguna is very difficult, but you’ll make sound at Sears and thunder hill

[acmikee]

I think there’s a challenge car for sale outside of Sacramento. It’s a well built car and a Series Champion.
Making sound at Laguna is very difficult, but you’ll make sound at Sears and thunder hill

[PNWTim]

Just in case you are looking for something different. Heater works well but track times might suffer.

212604

[Dave 53]

My Laguna pipe. The air intake is louder than the exhaust and I've been told by several people it sounds like a jet engine going down the straights. And with a challenge Cobra. This the one for sale?

212646

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[Dave 53]

Just in case you are looking for something different. Heater works well but track times might suffer.

212604


https://youtu.be/3wVKMLkpWaQ?si=oBavUceTwwIgKsZk