Best street-legal track tires

[JohnK]

My current tires (BF Goodrich Rivals) have aged out and need to be replaced before taking the roadster to the track. They were never really track-focused tires anyway. If I had a second set of rims I'd probably go with Hoosier R7's but I don't so I'm looking for the best set of track tires that are still street legal. I've read some great things about the new Hoosier Track Attack Pro's when they were launched, but some more recent reviews are a bit more mixed. So, those of you that track your roadster or coupe, what's your favorite track-focused but still street-legal tire that's available in 18" sizes? R888R?

Thanks,
John

[Jeff Kleiner]

I’ve run both Nitto NT-01s and Toyo R888Rs. Both are very comparable but the new gold standard in the 100 and “super 200” category is the Vitour Tempesta P1. My autocross friend Dallas Reed took over the US distribution last year after the original and less than scrupulous distributor failed to deliver. They are available in the 17 and 18 inch sizes we use. They are going on my Beta Mk5.

Jeff

[RoadRacer]

Vitour are the new guy and haven’t tried them yet but everyone seems onboard.

My yokes are amazing though - although at last weekends prosolo the RT660+ (emphasis on the +) were pretty impressive.

[weendoggy]

I've been running Nitto 01's for over 10yrs, both on the Cobra and '02 Mustang for track use only. I will mention this with a grain of salt, these tires (or any "competition" tire) is made generally for that. Be aware if these will be your only tire for both street and track, do not do well with a wet surface, imo. They are o.k. with some slight dampness, but wicked in wet conditions. I have a separate set of wheels/tires for track and my Cobra street are Continental Extreme Contact Sport 2, which are good in wet conditions but lack solid grip (pushing hard) in the dry track conditions. I use Nitto NT555 G2's for the Mustang wets & normal street driving. Also keep in mind the competition tires pick up every little piece of stuff on the street. Good luck on your choice.

[john42]

I’ve been running R888Rs. Thinking of switching to NT-01s

This is what a brand new R888R looks like after 1 day of HPDE

211743

[Jeff Kleiner]

I’ve been running R888Rs. Thinking of switching to NT-01s

This is what a brand new R888R looks like after 1 day of HPDE

211743

OPR ;)

Jeff

[Just 1 More]

Vitour are the new guy and haven’t tried them yet but everyone seems onboard.

My yokes are amazing though - although at last weekends prosolo the RT660+ (emphasis on the +) were pretty impressive.

That's what I was going to try, the Vitour P1. With Dallas Reed being somewhat local to the Fort Wayne SCCA and Indy groups, those guys are really pimping them.

[RoadRacer]

I've been running Nitto 01's for over 10yrs, both on the Cobra and '02 Mustang for track use only. I will mention this with a grain of salt, these tires (or any "competition" tire) is made generally for that. Be aware if these will be your only tire for both street and track, do not do well with a wet surface, imo. They are o.k. with some slight dampness, but wicked in wet conditions. I have a separate set of wheels/tires for track and my Cobra street are Continental Extreme Contact Sport 2, which are good in wet conditions but lack solid grip (pushing hard) in the dry track conditions. I use Nitto NT555 G2's for the Mustang wets & normal street driving. Also keep in mind the competition tires pick up every little piece of stuff on the street. Good luck on your choice.

100%

Op asked about street legal track tires but I wouldn’t use any of them daily on the street. I drive to events on them (no trailer) but that’s it.

Second set of wheels with PS4s or similar for proper street use.

[JohnK]

Thanks fellas, I appreciate the warnings. This is definitely an interim compromise solution. I'm not sure how much I plan to track the roadster so I'm not committed to buying a second set of wheels at this point. If it turns out to be something I do regularly then a dedicated set of track wheels/tires makes a ton of sense. My gut tells me that it's too nice a car to track regularly, so after I track it a few times and "scratch that itch" I'll go buy an older Mustang GT or Cayman S to flog on the track.

Around here we're fortunate to not get surprise rain showers and we have enough sunny days that I'm not worried about getting caught out unexpectedly in wet conditions on the street.

[Rdone585]

The DOT track tires are also not very "cold road friendly". Below 50 degrees F road temp, be careful.
John - the track itch just keeps reoccurring with greater intensity as time goes by. I suggest looking into trach day insurance. There are a few insurance companies that will write our cars.

[john42]

Thanks fellas, I appreciate the warnings. This is definitely an interim compromise solution. I'm not sure how much I plan to track the roadster so I'm not committed to buying a second set of wheels at this point. If it turns out to be something I do regularly then a dedicated set of track wheels/tires makes a ton of sense. My gut tells me that it's too nice a car to track regularly, so after I track it a few times and "scratch that itch" I'll go buy an older Mustang GT or Cayman S to flog on the track.

Around here we're fortunate to not get surprise rain showers and we have enough sunny days that I'm not worried about getting caught out unexpectedly in wet conditions on the street.

Some things I learning about HPDE/Tracking a Cobra. I'll start by stating my Cobra is a Challenge Car and was already NASA certified. So I may easily be missing things that a non-challenge car would need to do.

1 - Seat belts must be up to date - 6 point recommended but at least a 5 point is required
2 - arm restraints are required to keep your arms in the car in cast of accident
3 - a HANS is highly recommended and of course a helmet is required
4 - dual rollbars are required as an instructor ride along is required until you get certified
5 - seats must be bolted to the frame in a minimum of 4 places. They likely won't like the default Factory Five seats on the adjustable moving tracks. I have Kirkeys bolted to the floor.


Other things that they don't check but you'll want to do:

1 - brakes - good high temp pads
2 - high temp brake fluid
3 - I easily smoke a set of R888Rs in a weekend. It's not so much a road legal tire that you can track. Once you track them, they are done!
4 - Oil change before and after
5 - brake fluid change too
6 - no leaks! Nothing can leak on the track!

At the end of a race day the front end of my car is covered in melted black tire dust from other cars.

Don't let all this dissuade you from heading to the track! It's a hell of a lot of fun! I would highly suggest looking at local events that you may potentially go to, email the organizers and show up (but not to race) and have them do a tech inspection of your car and do a ride along with some other drivers. Then you'll understand full well what you're getting into!



A fun vid:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lz-oWIYKz8

[GoDadGo]

I’ve been running R888Rs. Thinking of switching to NT-01s

This is what a brand new R888R looks like after 1 day of HPDE

211743

Wow, that tire looks like my friend Phil's tires, minus the tread, after a day at any of the road courses he runs though the HSR series.
When he comes back to the pits my wife and I are often digging rocks out of them between rounds.
An expensive hobby it is with all motorsports hobbies.

https://youtu.be/zm2RdZ-FJmA

https://youtu.be/uFm3CM8_Zf8

https://youtu.be/JhR21Q24xHU

With that being said, I'll stick to car shows, street cruising and spirited back road driving on my NITTO NT-05's.

[Dave Tabor]

but that's not your rubber all melted off the tire - it's rubber from the track...

[john42]

Wow, that tire looks like my friend Phil's tires, minus the tread, after a day at any of the road courses he runs though the HSR series.
When he comes back to the pits my wife and I are often digging rocks out of them between rounds.
An expensive hobby it is with all motorsports hobbies.

https://youtu.be/zm2RdZ-FJmA

https://youtu.be/uFm3CM8_Zf8

https://youtu.be/JhR21Q24xHU

With that being said, I'll stick to car shows, street cruising and spirited back road driving on my NITTO NT-05's.

Nothing 1 good burnout doesn't fix :-)

Day 2 gets them all the way down to the wear marks.

[GoDadGo]

but that's not your rubber all melted off the tire - it's rubber from the track...

Good Point Super Dave Tabor!

What do your tires look like after you do a Silver State Challenge?

That's got to be A Bit Ruff on your Rubber Baby Buggy Bumpers (Tires) by the end of the run.

[JohnK]

Some things I learning about HPDE/Tracking a Cobra. I'll start by stating my Cobra is a Challenge Car and was already NASA certified. So I may easily be missing things that a non-challenge car would need to do.

1 - Seat belts must be up to date - 6 point recommended but at least a 5 point is required
2 - arm restraints are required to keep your arms in the car in cast of accident
3 - a HANS is highly recommended and of course a helmet is required
4 - dual rollbars are required as an instructor ride along is required until you get certified
5 - seats must be bolted to the frame in a minimum of 4 places. They likely won't like the default Factory Five seats on the adjustable moving tracks. I have Kirkeys bolted to the floor.



Thanks for this list! I'm good on 2-5. Do they really check harness expiration date for track days, or is that more of a racing thing? My Simpson 5 point camlocks are like-new but expired.

[Jeff Kleiner]

... Do they really check harness expiration date for track days, or is that more of a racing thing? My Simpson 5 point camlocks are like-new but expired.

I've never had them checked when autocrossing or for track days but if you think it might be an issue you can send them back in to Simpson to be examined and recertified.

Jeff

[Presdough]

I'm quite pleased with my 555G2's. They hooked well enough to fold up the 3 link at the drag strip...

[john42]

I've never had them checked when autocrossing or for track days but if you think it might be an issue you can send them back in to Simpson to be examined and recertified.

Jeff

Ya autocross they don't care. HPDE they haven't always checked my dates on belts. Could be the inspectors at the tracks I go to are more in tune to that..

[Chadillac]

Does anyone have experience running Hoosier A7s in autocross?

My current autocross car is a '93 Sentra SE-R and is limited to 200TW in STS. Out of the tires I've tried, I've been the fastest on A052s.

However, with my MkIV being in XP, I'd assume I'd have to run A7s if I even wanted a chance to be competitive, correct?

Anybody want to share their autocross setup?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Does anyone have experience running Hoosier A7s in autocross?

My current autocross car is a '93 Sentra SE-R and is limited to 200TW in STS. Out of the tires I've tried, I've been the fastest on A052s.

However, with my MkIV being in XP, I'd assume I'd have to run A7s if I even wanted a chance to be competitive, correct?

Anybody want to share their autocross setup?

Never tried A7s but I have run in XP using the NT-01s and R888Rs that I mentioned in post #2. I was kind of locked in because the <200 treadwear kept me there. If you and the car weigh enough (2,680 pounds with driver) and you're interested in running with a larger field think about giving CAM-S a try. If you do so take a look at the "Super 200s" like Vitour Tempesta P1, Falken 660+ and the A052s that you're already familiar with. If the idea of getting beat up on by a bunch of Z06s in CAM-S doesn't appeal to you or you can't make weight you could also go to Xtreme Street B. Virtually identical rules as CAM-S but with a 2,330 pound weight minimum. Like XP though this will usually be a very small field.

Jeff

[i.e.427]

I don't know what Chad weighs but with a full load of fuel and him in the car, he should be able to make a 2330 lbs. class.

Corner weights for his car.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216112&d=1752105367

[Jeff Kleiner]

Yeah, looks like he'd be right on the money XS-B but fact is that unless he starts beating the Corvette guys in CAM-S (and he won't unless he's a Wade Chamberlain level driver ;)) they won't ever question weight.

Jeff

[JMD]

If you want a tire that’s sticky enough for some track work but hard enough that they won’t be ruined by it, I would suggest some Falken Azeni RT615’s. I ran a set in my ‘93 RX7 a while back for HPDE, autocross and street driving. They really did it all and lasted about 8k miles in good condition. They won’t be competitive on track if you’re looking to win in a certain class or event, but if you’re looking for a tire that’s relatively sticky yet durable and can do it all, I suggest giving them a try. They’re reasonably priced, as well.

[i.e.427]

Yeah, looks like he'd be right on the money XS-B but fact is that unless he starts beating the Corvette guys in CAM-S (and he won't unless he's a Wade Chamberlain level driver ;)) they won't ever question weight.

Jeff

And I completely agree with that. I sent Chad a text a few hours ago and made this suggestion:

"My suggestion would be to wait on stickier tires. Run your first season, maybe two, on the street tires you have on the car now and learn the tendencies of the car. I see too many guys buy the stickiest tires to start, not learning the car and it's characteristics. Then the car teaches them a lesson that the tires were masking. You can increase some of the grip by playing with tire pressures. Or if you run into an event with few participants, you can hot lap the car. This will keep the heat in the tires."

Frank

[Jeff Kleiner]

And I completely agree with that. I sent Chad a text a few hours ago and made this suggestion:

"My suggestion would be to wait on stickier tires. Run your first season, maybe two, on the street tires you have on the car now and learn the tendencies of the car. I see too many guys buy the stickiest tires to start, not learning the car and it's characteristics. Then the car teaches them a lesson that the tires were masking. You can increase some of the grip by playing with tire pressures. Or if you run into an event with few participants, you can hot lap the car. This will keep the heat in the tires."

Frank

Pretty sure that you and I have had this conversation before! Maybe even in one of the i.e.427 videos ;)

Jeff

[CraigS]

Does anyone have experience running Hoosier A7s in autocross?

My current autocross car is a '93 Sentra SE-R and is limited to 200TW in STS. Out of the tires I've tried, I've been the fastest on A052s.

However, with my MkIV being in XP, I'd assume I'd have to run A7s if I even wanted a chance to be competitive, correct?

Anybody want to share their autocross setup?
It's been 6 years now since I got out of my FFR but ran A6s and A7s for maybe 10 yrs prior to that. At that time they were the absolute fastest autocross tire available. As soon as it was over 75-80deg I had to water them down after the 2nd run so they didn't get too hot and greasy. I have to wonder though how they compare to the RE71RS and AO52 as the fast guys are doing the water thing on them the same as I was on A7s. I ran 800# front springs and 350# rears on the solid axle and went to 450# (I think) when I went IRS. Ran QA1 double adjustable shocks which were fantastic. I could go from a street setting to an AX setting in maybe 5 min and could easily make a change between runs. I think there are probably better DA shocks, especially for track work, but for 60 second AX runs, these are a huge value for the $. Alignment was FR = -3.5 camber, 7-8deg caster, 1/16" total toe in. RR = -1.7 camber, 3/16" total toe in.

[RoadRacer]

I’ve run a7’s but I prefer the super 200 classes. We have 170-200 turnouts each event so class sizes are good. I run XB which is pretty much unlimited but you do need “200’s” - with quotes :)

Currently vitours and liking them after one event, a052’s were great before that. RT660’s before that but def a cheaper tire, didn’t last long.

-3.5° camber, 10° caster, -1/8 toe. Rear 3-link. Qa1’s (a must). 800/250springs are about perfect. Front sway but now removed the rear one.

[Rsnake]

John,
Dave and I both run BFgoodrich rival S1.5 and really like them. They do good on the autocross, good at the track, high speed runs and daily driving. I get about 8-10k miles out of them and will buy them again. Not the best for any specific task but a good all around tire. My only complaint is that they are not Y rated.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Currently vitours and liking them after one event, a052’s were great before that...


James,
What's been your observation on the Vitours with heat vs the Yokohamas. By that I mean getting heat into them and not the problem of too much heat. With my other Cobra the problem with the NT-01s and R888Rs was getting them up to a workable temp on our light cars. Debating about what I want to use on my new Mk5; the reports I'm seeing say that although the Vitour may have more ultimate grip it needs heat and doesn't come up right away whereas the AO52 has a reputation of coming up to temp very quickly.

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

I just want to thank everyone who has been sharing their knowledge on this thread.
I've learned a bunch just reading everyone's posts.
Stay Safe & Drive Quickly!

[RoadRacer]

James,
What's been your observation on the Vitours with heat vs the Yokohamas. By that I mean getting heat into them and not the problem of too much heat. With my other Cobra the problem with the NT-01s and R888Rs was getting them up to a workable temp on our light cars. Debating about what I want to use on my new Mk5; the reports I'm seeing say that although the Vitour may have more ultimate grip it needs heat and doesn't come up right away whereas the AO52 has a reputation of coming up to temp very quickly.

Jeff

I always find it hard to quantify.. you’re always moving from a tire that’s either gradually losing grip (or more commonly for me, falling off a cliff) to a brand new fresh tire at the top of its game. They always feel awesome!

TLDR; I’ve heard the same but didn’t see that.

I’ve done one event on them - a 45s autox in 90° full sun - and they were great. I use a lot of rubber - 315f, 345r (used to be square but need more rear tire cos I’m always chasing oversteer problem) - so that makes heat harder to build but I liked the feel and grip I was getting. Seemed instantly on to me and built speed through my runs. My style helps in that I like to do an 80% run to learn the course and usually gain a second a run. I’m not 10/10 and best time in first run like the top guys.

I was on par with my performance with other events - 90% of top pax, 88% of top raw. I’ll be doing some track work again this month as I learn a track I’ve become a member of so will be interesting to see how times compare with new tires.

[Bart Carter]

Grassroots Motorsports does extensive testing. Here is their latest tire chart:
216340

[R. Button]

I was interested in how well in Grassroots Motorsports listed the Continental Extreme Contact Sport tires in their chart. I have been running them for dry and wet (no cold weather driving). They so far have done very well. When some of the groups do not want to go out on the track with the rain, I'm out on the track mostly by myself in the rain. I've learned how well the tires handle in the rain.

[Bart Carter]

Also, your favorite tires may not be in your favorite sizes. Here is a test of the new Hoosier Trackattack Pro against two other highly rated tires. The Hoosier is available in my favorite rear size, 315/18, but the other two are not. Then you have to decide how much heat you can get with what our cars weigh, etc.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/hoosier-trackattack-pro-tire-test/?mc_cid=eba6be4af3&mc_eid=0d3227c1fb

[mrmustang]

My current tires (BF Goodrich Rivals) have aged out and need to be replaced before taking the roadster to the track. They were never really track-focused tires anyway. If I had a second set of rims I'd probably go with Hoosier R7's but I don't so I'm looking for the best set of track tires that are still street legal. I've read some great things about the new Hoosier Track Attack Pro's when they were launched, but some more recent reviews are a bit more mixed. So, those of you that track your roadster or coupe, what's your favorite track-focused but still street-legal tire that's available in 18" sizes? R888R?

Thanks,
John

John,

Are you road racing or autocrossing?
What dimensions are your rims? 18x7, 18x9, 18x10 etc and so forth



Bill S.

[JohnK]

John,

Are you road racing or autocrossing?
What dimensions are your rims? 18x7, 18x9, 18x10 etc and so forth



Bill S.

Just a quick update from me, as a lot has changed since I first started this thread. After attending the Skip Barber 3 day race school and a few track days in rented cars (spec Miata), I decided that the roadster didn't offer anywhere near enough safety for me to be comfortable tracking it. I decided to dive head-first into the deep end and purchased a 2018 Porsche Cayman GTS as my track car. After some safety mods (roll bar, seats, harnesses) some light suspension work to be able to dial in a track alignment, this is my new track weapon. Much of the discussion here is also relevant to the Cayman, especially the Grassroots Motorsports tire analysis. I'm currently running Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on factory 20" rims, as this is what came with the car. Honestly, these are far better track tires than they have any business being, and if they were available in the right sizes for the roadster I'd run them in a heartbeat. Once these wear out in a few more track days, I'll probably buy a set of dedicated forged Apex 19" wheels and run Vitours or Nankangs for track use. Thanks everyone for all the discussion. It's been very interesting to follow along.

For fun, here are a few shots from my last track day at Laguna Seca with the Cayman.

-John

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216448&d=1752683304

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216449&d=1752683304

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216450&d=1752683304

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216451&d=1752683304

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216452&d=1752683304

[Presdough]

My Spyder broke down two days before my track day and I couldn't find an ECM in time, so I stickered up my 2003 Mini Cooper and tracked it instead. I had so much fun that I'm building a supercharged Mini for track use. Cheap to build, cheap to run and if I stack it up I won't be out a lot. Plus they handle like they're on rails!

[jfrissora]

I moved to Nitto NT-05 and could not be happier. Very sticky tire, no complaints at all. They are basically 1 step down from the NT-01 if you want something a bit more street.

[CW_MI]

I'm going with the Falken Azenis RT660+, although they may be more of a street use, than track use, for you.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Nitto NT-01 on the Cobra & Michelin Pilot 4s on the Z4M40i & M4C. Pilots are better in the wet & both suck on any snow.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've run multiple sets of both the Nitto NT-01 and Toyo R888R. They've become old tech that has been surpassed by the ultra competitive "Super 200" class of tires. My new Mk5 is getting Vitour Tempesta P1 X-01R which is currently top of the heap for a quick turn on autocross and time trial tire. For longer runs and more heat tolerance look at the Vitour Tempesta P1 P-01R.

Jeff

[TrackDay17]

I've run multiple sets of both the Nitto NT-01 and Toyo R888R. They've become old tech that has been surpassed by the ultra competitive "Super 200" class of tires. My new Mk5 is getting Vitour Tempesta P1 X-01R which is currently top of the heap for a quick turn on autocross and time trial tire. For longer runs and more heat tolerance look at the Vitour Tempesta P1 P-01R.

Jeff

Jeff, you had mentioned in another thread the Vitour Tempesta Enzo VO-1R as probably a good choice for a more streetable tire.
What sizes in 18 inch do you recommend ? I see they make a 255/35 -18 for the front but I only see a 305/35-18 for the rear while FF recommend a 315/30-18 for the rear. I wasn't sure what the best combo would be for street use.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff, you had mentioned in another thread the Vitour Tempesta Enzo VO-1R as probably a good choice for a more streetable tire.
What sizes in 18 inch do you recommend ? I see they make a 255/35 -18 for the front but I only see a 305/35-18 for the rear while FF recommend a 315/30-18 for the rear. I wasn't sure what the best combo would be for street use.

The comical part is that FFR recommends 315/30-18 for the rear but they don't sell you that...if you buy the wheel and tire package from them you get 295/35-18 for the rear! :D :p

Here's how it breaks down:

The Enzo 305/35-18 has a 12.3" section width and 26.4 overall diameter


315/30-18 have 12.6" section width and 25.5 overall diameter

295/35-18 have 11.9 " section width and 26.1 overall diameter

The popular 17" size of 315/35-17 have 12.6" section width and 25.7 overall diameter

The often used 15" size of 295/50-15 have 12.2 section width and a 26.8 overall diameter


So, long story short IMO that isn't going to hurt anything in the rear and I wouldn't hesitate to run that size.

Jeff

[TrackDay17]

The comical part is that FFR recommends 315/30-18 for the rear but they don't sell you that...if you buy the wheel and tire package from them you get 295/35-18 for the rear! :D :p

Here's how it breaks down:

The Enzo 305/35-18 has a 12.3" section width and 26.4 overall diameter


315/30-18 have 12.6" section width and 25.5 overall diameter

295/35-18 have 11.9 " section width and 26.1 overall diameter

The popular 17" size of 315/35-17 have 12.6" section width and 25.7 overall diameter

The often used 15" size of 295/50-15 have 12.2 section width and a 26.8 overall diameter


So, long story short IMO that isn't going to hurt anything in the rear and I wouldn't hesitate to run that size.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I wasn't sure if the slightly taller tire would rub but I guess if the ride height is set up properly it won't matter.