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wantscobra
03-17-2025, 03:44 PM
I'm really sorry if this post ends up being half a book...

Sometime around 2004, I was in my 20s and found out about FFR. Since that time, I've been trying to figure out how I could build one. I'm not completely hopeless, I've wrenched on several of my own cars (changed oil, brakes, tie rods, sway bars, struts/shocks, sparkplugs), helped with a few motor swaps, and helped a friend finish rebuilding a 350 each for his jeep and for a ridiculous sand rail. I grew up on a farm with a handful of tractors, I've ridden atvs and worked on them when required. All that to say, I have some idea how most systems for a car are meant to work.

My FFR MK IV kit arrived last April (2024). I promptly got to work inventorying. I was only missing a few bits from my order.

Prior to ordering my kit, my engine friend found a rebuilt 302 for a good price. It had been rebuilt several years prior, but never put in the project (owner wanted more power). It was/is still in the plastic wrap from the engine shop. I also ordered around that time a Holley Sniper 2 efi, the hyperspark distributor to match it (engine didn't have a dist. in). From a used parts place, I ordered a 3.55 IRS with torsen diff, for just barely more than the cost of the diff alone. I also ordered the rear knuckles and 2015+ gt brake calipers from this place. I'm happy to say that all seems to have arrived in good condition, except for one bad wheel bearing. I'm still happy with what I received.

After my kit arrival and inventory, I started with the beginning of the build manual. I got basically all of the suspension together and test fitted. I had some issues with my shocks leaking (red body). I am happy to report FFR and Koni agreed there was a problem and took care of that very quickly.

I tend to worry a lot about my vehicles. My wife calls it 'mechanical hypochondria'. I like to keep things 'like new'. I'm really trying to remind myself that my build will never be 'perfect' but it will be 'perfect for me'. Even that seems ambitious. So, this is where the story gets less fun.

I waited to install my f-panels until after I had the front suspension hanging from the car. I agonized over the fitment of these panels for weeks. Then I decided where I thought they should be. Then I trimmed them to make them fit how I wanted. And then, I read a forum post that stated that they shouldn't need to be trimmed. This started my downward spiral. From April to June, basically all I accomplished was getting the front suspension on (still not fully to torque spec), cleaning up my rear end, building the rear suspension parts and mounting my trimmed f-panels, despite spending several weekends 'working' on the car. Most of my working time was actually spent worrying about 'doing it wrong'. At this point, I decided that while for 75-90% of the mechanical build of this car I was confident that either I or someone I know would be able to work out exactly what we needed, for the rest of the build, I was going to need guidance. So, I signed up for build school, and attended in August.

Build school was incredibly informative. I was able to use that as a way to get my hands on things that I was worried about and take a lot of notes in my manual for questions and tips. It was incredibly helpful, and I'm glad I did it. I came away thinking 'If we can build a functional car in 3 days, I should be able to get this done.' I definitely was guilty of hanging back and letting others who seemed to have less experience with cars do more of the work, but I hope they got the same benefit from that that I did, and I definitely jumped in when needed.

Since build school, I've had some home projects and family health things get in the way of my build, but I'm hoping to get those things done soon so I can get back to my build. It's still sitting exactly as I left it last June.

1. My f-panels are mounted and riveted now. I believe that they are in an ok position, and having trimmed them, I was worried. I think they are fine, but are people really able to get them to fit well without trimming? And, have I 'done it wrong'?

2. Last fall, during a holley sale, I knew I needed a fuel pump. The manual for the sniper 2 recommends using 3/8 fuel lines, and the 12-345 pump and hanger came up as a recommendation somewhere as I was searching. This is a 340 lph pump. So, I ordered it. After the fact, I started questioning how wise it is to use this pump in my application. I'm going to be running a 302 with performer rpm heads, an off the shelf (most likely alphabet e or b) cam, and probably an rpm airgap intake (engine currently has a victor jr intake, but that is meant for rpm well above what I intend to see). I have looked at a fuel pump calculator, and that says at most I would need 150lph for about 350 hp at 60 psi. So, how bad is it to run a fuel pump that will move twice the required fuel? The engine would never starve for fuel (the sniper 2 is practically going to be drowning :) ). I don't love the idea of pumping so much fuel around the whole system loop for no reason, but I don't know how 'bad' it actually is.

3. I saw a post about IRS bushings and grease that really got my mechanical hypochondria in overdrive. The post was about using lithium or silicone grease in the suspension components because the poly bushings would degrade with a 'regular' grease. I hadn't even thought about this when I started building out my IRS parts, I didn't see it mentioned in the build manual, though I could absolutely have missed it if it is, and I used the grease gun my dad and I always used for most things, which had a red grease in it that, looking back I would say is probably wheel bearing grease, or something equivalent. It is probably not silicone and definitely not lithium. Do I need to take all of my greased parts apart and clean this grease out and use lithium/silicone? Have I already damaged the poly bushings since they've been sitting it in for over 6 months?

Current build plans for those interested-

Car will be driven mostly around my rural home. Virtually no expressway, a fair bit of 55-65. Maybe a track day someday, though I currently have no plans.

1992 Mustang 302 +.030, performer rpm heads, stamped rockers, victor junior intake (to be replaced by rpm air gap), off the shelf cam of unknown spec (most likely b or e)

Tremec TKX 5 speed - 3.27 1st - .72 5th

centerforce 2 clutch

IRS - 3.55 with torsen

FR500 17" wheels from a relatively well known mustang parts supplier

Nitto tires - 275 front / 315 rear

jpipes and gas-n touring pipes (gas-n already ordered and arrived)

double roll bar

Current paint plan - either brittany or viking blue with white (unknown paint code) stripe. roll bars, quick jacks and other hardware painted/powder coated to match stripe

Thanks for letting me ramble a bunch of nonsense. I actually had to retype a lot because I got logged out somehow. This has been a dream of mine for over 20 years, and as much as I want to build and especially drive my MK IV, there are a lot of days where I feel like I will never actually finish.

-m

Avalanche325
03-17-2025, 03:59 PM
I don't think you needed to trim the F panels, but it is no big deal. They are just a splash panel. They often will scrub the drivers side tire at full lock. Some people put rack limiters on. I just don't turn the wheel that far. :-). You would only ever scrub in a parking lot, and you can easily feel it.

Alphabet cams are a bit dated. I would also consider something better than stamped rockers if you are upgrading the cam.

If that engine hasn't been run, I would get oil in it and prime it. Engines sitting are fine as long as they have an oil film on everything, No oil film and you can get condensation which can cause rust and pitting.

danmas
03-17-2025, 06:22 PM
I wouldn’t worry much about the f-panels depending on how you trimmed them. The reason I say this (having not much experience) is because I got the ffmetal fat tire panels. Post a picture here and the real experts will weigh in. If they are wrong they will tell you and you can either get some replacements or buy them from ffmetal as well. Easy.

Regarding indecision, I have spent a fair bit of time trying to do it “right”. I agonize, test fit, worry about it, refit and and and… I’m finally to the point where I acknowledge I am going to have to redo some things and probably hose up some things. I settled on the car won’t be perfect but it will be a hell of a lot nicer than a bunch of parts sitting in a box. Anyway, I empathize with your thoughts. I think the only way to get to the point where I am certain I’m doing it right is to do it and then course correct. The next time I do it I will be better at it.

Good luck and have fun.

Dan

JimStone
03-17-2025, 08:31 PM
I spend as much time staring at the car, wondering what I'm about to screw up, than actually working on it. I often feel paralyzed by indecision.

I think that's pretty normal for a new builder though. If I build a second car, I'll be so much faster because I know what works and doesn't.

I too trimmed a panel then regretted it. Oh well. If I wanted to I could remake it, but it'll be buried under carpet so I move on.

I also did the red grease in the poly bushing thing.

You don't know what you don't know. The learning part is the most fun aspect, IMO.

Tango
03-17-2025, 09:08 PM
Reading the original post makes me realize that I am not alone in questioning every step along the course of the build. I am new enough to not have any authoritative answers to your questions….however I have been around here long enough to 100% relate to the feelings of paralysis. My first panel will be siliconed this week….probably….possibly….potentially.

edwardb
03-17-2025, 09:32 PM
Glad to hear you went to the build school to gain some confidence. Hard to comment about the F panels. Maybe post some pictures. They're not super critical so likely they're OK. Here's my standard advice: If you think you need to cut something, get a bigger hammer, or go to the store and buy different hardware, stop. Consider first that you're doing something wrong. These kits aren't perfect. But especially the Mk4 Roadster is well sorted and should go together with minimal massaging. Especially if you're not doing a bunch of mods that often have unintended consequences. I've broken this rule myself more than I want to admit, and more often than not found I was the one doing something wrong. As a second step, search the forum (Google is your friend) and if you're still not sure, post a question. Not much that hasn't been encountered before. Yeah, that pump is a little strong for your setup. But with 3/8" supply and return lines, you should be OK. I'd be very surprised if a quality name brand grease is going to damage those bushings. Fair weather car that's going to be stored inside, right? You'll be fine. Carry on. The journey is supposed to be enjoyable and not add stress to your life. The final result is worth it too.

Cobraman
03-17-2025, 10:03 PM
Most of my build has been verified on this fourm just by reading about other builders concerns and there problem solving efforts and success as a whole on this fourm. With 100's of years of build experience there will be a answer for every question. Just ask!!! I started my build in November 24 but not after studying this fourm for 2 years please reach out with any questions.

https://youtube.com/shorts/z0Odtv5ThJ0?si=QkGtt2ScTc3OAg-k

cdurbin328
03-18-2025, 06:50 AM
One thing I found helpful was downloading a PDF copy of the assembly manual. The printed copy is in B/W which makes some of the photos near impossible to decipher.
The PDF (electronic) copy is in full color so you can zoom in and get a good look.

wantscobra
03-18-2025, 09:32 AM
I'll try to respond to most of what I see so far.

- Alphabet cams are a bit dated - Agreed, but I'm just planning to run this engine more or less as it came, get used to the car, and then possibly build another 302 with a bit more power in the near-mid term. I had a mustang with a B cam a while back and it was plenty fun. But yes, there are cams that sound great, make more power, and all the good things.

- If that engine hasn't been run, I would get oil in it and prime it. - It hasn't. It was stored in the previous owner's barn for about 5 years, and in my climate controlled shop now for 2. When I picked it up, we took off the valve covers and everything was coated in a thin layer of oil and looked brand new. We didn't dig deeper, so that absolutely could have been a trick. Since I am planning to do an intake swap, I will see what the valley looks like then. I do 100% plan to fill with oil and prime before I install my transmission, since I will have to dial in the bell housing (quicktime steel).

- Regarding indecision, I have spent a fair bit of time trying to do it “right”. I agonize, test fit, worry about it, refit and and and - That's pretty much where I have been. I never pull the trigger because I'm not sure it's 'right'. Also why my basement project has taken 5x longer than it should have...

- Reading the original post makes me realize that I am not alone in questioning every step along the course of the build. - And it's probably more than just a few of us...

- As a second step, search the forum (Google is your friend) and if you're still not sure, post a question. - I agree, to a point. My problem is, searching the forum I sometimes see conflicting answers (there are often as many different answers as there are people responding) so I am not sure what is 'correct'. I also realize that, like most things, there isn't a single correct way. And sometimes the answer that is agreed upon goes against what I think in my gut was right. I'm working on it.

- I started my build in November 24 but not after studying this fourm for 2 years - It is true, the forum is a great resource. I've apparently been a member for 14 years, and I have read a lot of posts here in that time. Which, in some ways adds to my confusion, and in some ways has helped immensely.

- One thing I found helpful was downloading a PDF copy of the assembly manual - Definitely done that. Had my son sitting with my laptop helping me with inventory. It is a great resource.

Here is a link to a google album of my f-panels.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yApywrdqUqZ9pJxk6

I didn't trim them much. Just to fit the frame in the front and a little bit of the opening where the brake line comes through on one side. If I remember, and it's been a minute, less than 1/2" on the one panel front, and less than 1/8" in the one opening. Also, don't judge me too harshly that I didn't use the screw holes from shipping, they weren't on the tubing behind where I wanted to place the panel... And I'm a little disappointed by that.

-m

edwardb
03-18-2025, 10:06 AM
- As a second step, search the forum (Google is your friend) and if you're still not sure, post a question. - I agree, to a point. My problem is, searching the forum I sometimes see conflicting answers (there are often as many different answers as there are people responding) so I am not sure what is 'correct'. I also realize that, like most things, there isn't a single correct way. And sometimes the answer that is agreed upon goes against what I think in my gut was right. I'm working on it.

- I started my build in November 24 but not after studying this fourm for 2 years - It is true, the forum is a great resource. I've apparently been a member for 14 years, and I have read a lot of posts here in that time. Which, in some ways adds to my confusion, and in some ways has helped immensely.

Here is a link to a google album of my f-panels... I didn't trim them much. Just to fit the frame in the front and a little bit of the opening where the brake line comes through on one side. If I remember, and it's been a minute, less than 1/2" on the one panel front, and less than 1/8" in the one opening. Also, don't judge me too harshly that I didn't use the screw holes from shipping, they weren't on the tubing behind where I wanted to place the panel... And I'm a little disappointed by that.

-m

Agreed you can get conflicting answers. Also agree there aren't always single correct answers. But, if you've been watching the forum as long as you say, probably you've seen the same members come up frequently. It's not too tough to figure out who is speaking from experience and knowledge, and those that maybe aren't. So discernment is definitely the order of the day. But don't discount what you see too quickly. I started my first build in 2009 with little/no experience or knowledge. The forums have been a huge resource for me. Probably wouldn't have been successful without them.

For the F panels, agree it's sometimes necessary to trim where the brake line comes through (I've done it) but the rest should be ok as delivered. What you have looks OK though. Don't apologize for not using the holes made by Factory Five. That's talked about occasionally and is a bit of a sore spot for many of us. They punch those in to hold the parts in place for shipping and often not exactly placed. May/may not be where you really want the parts to be finally located.

Unlike some other forums, this is a friendly place and closely moderated. You shouldn't find any judging going on.

danmas
03-18-2025, 11:56 AM
I’m no expert but I don’t see an issue with your f panels. However you probably want to trim your control arm sleeves for caster/camber…

Factory Five Control Arms Sleeve. From an ai generated search (which is actually quite amazing):

On the Factory Five forum, a user discussed the process of trimming sleeves for adjustable front upper control arms. They mentioned using a hacksaw to make a cleaner cut and re-threading the part. The user was also advised to adjust the sleeves to achieve proper caster and camber adjustments, which helped improve the car's handling on the highway.
Another user on the forum shared their experience with installing the passenger side upper control arm and swapping spindles side to side. They noted that the sleeves needed to be adjusted to specific lengths: 9 inches on the front sleeve and 7.35 inches on the rear sleeve to achieve approximately 8 degrees of caster for better tracking on the highway.

wantscobra
03-18-2025, 12:29 PM
I’m no expert but I don’t see an issue with your f panels. However you probably want to trim your control arm sleeves for caster/camber…

Factory Five Control Arms Sleeve. From an ai generated search (which is actually quite amazing):

On the Factory Five forum, a user discussed the process of trimming sleeves for adjustable front upper control arms. They mentioned using a hacksaw to make a cleaner cut and re-threading the part. The user was also advised to adjust the sleeves to achieve proper caster and camber adjustments, which helped improve the car's handling on the highway.
Another user on the forum shared their experience with installing the passenger side upper control arm and swapping spindles side to side. They noted that the sleeves needed to be adjusted to specific lengths: 9 inches on the front sleeve and 7.35 inches on the rear sleeve to achieve approximately 8 degrees of caster for better tracking on the highway.

From what I have read and understand, they only need to be trimmed for power steering. Build school was very informative on an initial 'close enough for build' alignment. I don't believe we had a trimmed sleeve there, but I could be wrong.

danmas
03-18-2025, 12:57 PM
Could be right, I don’t know. However it’s an easy fix, and you may decide to add power steering. Some people do. If you do it now it’s a ten minute job. If you do it later you essentially have to tear apart your suspension. From a thread today from people that know a lot more than I do:link (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?50984-Front-end-Alignment-info)