A few questions before I get to building...

[Kaase Cobra]

Hello folks,

Long-time reader/learner here, first time poster. I've been on this site a few times a week since about 2017, and it's high time I actually got things moving. My plan is to start with the 427 engine, then move on to the car. Simple reason being, we're still on the hunt for a house with a 3-car garage to actually work on this thing! The engine however can be accommodated. This will be a three generation build, with my father and two sons. And I'm sure we'll enlist some help from friends along the way. Before I set out, I have a few questions that I haven't been able to confirm just by thumbing through posts here:

First, what's the consensus on cast iron vs aluminum 427FE block weight difference affecting handling & overall driving quality? Leaning heavily towards the AL anyway, but something about the nostalgia factor has kept me from being 100% sure. Open to any and all reco's, horror stories, etc...

Second, with the redesigned Mk5, is there any possibility of being able to accommodate 15" wheels with the IRS? Or would I need to go with the Gordon Levy Wilwood setup to make this fit? I'm still very much partial to the look of the 15's on these cars, but respect everyone's personal preference.

Lastly, what do you wish you did differently on your build? Any guidance for someone in the final stages of planning?

A note of thanks: I've read many of the build threads on here far more than I care to admit... especially for someone who isn't actually in the build process! It was helpful for me to think through and visualize each phase to understand what I was going to be getting into eventually. Special thanks to you all's detail and commitment to sharing your knowledge, for instance Papa, GTBradley, IV_Joe, BadAsp427, Ted G, Mike in Texas, John in KC, Kleiner, and countless others.

Thank you -

[gbranham]

Why not a 427 SBF? Same displacement, but smaller, lighter package.

[PMD24]

Welcome. Nice to hear that you are planning a family build.

I had my heart set on the 15" wheels because I prefer the look also. But after much discussion with FFR and reading on the forum I changed up and went with the 17". You will find the performance tire selections in the 15" size are becoming limited, and if you don't like the white lettering, even more limited. The 15" wheel will also limit your options on brakes, since most upgrades won't fit inside the smaller wheel (I'm told there are some options out there though). Lastly, if resale is a factor, 17" is far and away the dominant wheel size for these cars. FFR quoted something like 90% of theirs, and on sites like Bring a Trailer almost every Cobra replica is on 17". But, whenever a 15" comes up, I still prefer that look.

I went into this assuming I would love the build and would want to do another, so ultimately, I went with the 17's because it gave a future owner more options.

My next build will be 15's. :)

[Mike.Bray]

Why not a 427 SBF? Same displacement, but smaller, lighter package.

My thoughts exactly. And WAY less expensive.

My word of advice, don't be afraid to make adjustments during your build. I always thought it's important to have a vision of your finished car before starting: things like color, trim, stance, etc. You have your heart set on 15" wheels but unfortunately they are going the way of the Dodo bird and are probably more effort and expense than they're worth these days. And don't be afraid to listen to the forum. I was dead set on manual steering as that's been my experience with previous builds and I liked the simplicity of it. The forum convinced me to go with power steering and I cannot begin to describe how happy I am that I did. Between my hydraulic clutch and PS my car is such a pure pleasure to drive.

Good luck with your build, I'll be watching:)

[Jeff Kleiner]

First, what's the consensus on cast iron vs aluminum 427FE block weight difference affecting handling & overall driving quality? Leaning heavily towards the AL anyway, but something about the nostalgia factor has kept me from being 100% sure. Open to any and all reco's, horror stories, etc...

With any FE just be prepared to spend a boatload of money and also be VERY thorough with your research because there are a lot of nuances to parts interchangeability... Not all FEs are alike so what works for one may not work for another. Just ask me and Henry Renaud ;)


Second, with the redesigned Mk5, is there any possibility of being able to accommodate 15" wheels with the IRS?

Absolutely! Simply select option #60780 (11.65" rear brakes for the 2015 and later IRS) when you place your order.

Jeff

[Blitzboy54]

I'm on my second build. I would recommend if money isn't a gating factor build the car YOU WANT! Don't worry about resale or if others like it. You're the one who will drive it and love it and it should be a reflection of you. The forum is a never ending well of help and knowledge. It is worth it's weight in gold, but don't worry if we approve of your personal decisions on how it looks or what engine you choose.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

[Kaase Cobra]

Why not a 427 SBF? Same displacement, but smaller, lighter package.

Say not a bad idea! Could save the weight and a few dollars and put that somewhere else on the build. Maybe even get it painted before I'm 80...:D

[Kaase Cobra]

Welcome. Nice to hear that you are planning a family build.

I had my heart set on the 15" wheels because I prefer the look also. But after much discussion with FFR and reading on the forum I changed up and went with the 17". You will find the performance tire selections in the 15" size are becoming limited, and if you don't like the white lettering, even more limited. The 15" wheel will also limit your options on brakes, since most upgrades won't fit inside the smaller wheel (I'm told there are some options out there though). Lastly, if resale is a factor, 17" is far and away the dominant wheel size for these cars. FFR quoted something like 90% of theirs, and on sites like Bring a Trailer almost every Cobra replica is on 17". But, whenever a 15" comes up, I still prefer that look.

I went into this assuming I would love the build and would want to do another, so ultimately, I went with the 17's because it gave a future owner more options.

My next build will be 15's. :)

Thanks for the heads up! I understood there would be some limitations to the 15's, but I might be willing to accept the tradeoff - to me, they just look right. As for resale value, I don't know that I have any designs to sell it. I'm doing it more for sentimental value than anything! Hopefully the boys will be able to look back on it fondly when they're my age.

[Kaase Cobra]

My thoughts exactly. And WAY less expensive.

My word of advice, don't be afraid to make adjustments during your build. I always thought it's important to have a vision of your finished car before starting: things like color, trim, stance, etc. You have your heart set on 15" wheels but unfortunately they are going the way of the Dodo bird and are probably more effort and expense than they're worth these days. And don't be afraid to listen to the forum. I was dead set on manual steering as that's been my experience with previous builds and I liked the simplicity of it. The forum convinced me to go with power steering and I cannot begin to describe how happy I am that I did. Between my hydraulic clutch and PS my car is such a pure pleasure to drive.

Good luck with your build, I'll be watching:)

Thanks Mike! Appreciate the advice. I might have to print that one out and tape it to the wall when things get moving. There are a few things I know I want in the build, and there are a few that I don't quite care about. For instance, keeping all 4 wheels on the ground and pointed in the right direction - very important! Interior - to me, not so much. I don't think I'll be bothering with AC, heated seats, audio, or any bells & whistles on the inside. I'll be lucky enough to get the electrical right as it is ;). Also, point taken on power steering and hydraulic clutch! I'll add it to the options list.

[Kaase Cobra]

With any FE just be prepared to spend a boatload of money and also be VERY thorough with your research because there are a lot of nuances to parts interchangeability... Not all FEs are alike so what works for one may not work for another. Just ask me and Henry Renaud ;)



Absolutely! Simply select option #60780 (11.65" rear brakes for the 2015 and later IRS) when you place your order.

Jeff

Thanks for the heads up on the FE part compatibility! Will have to do a little more research and make sure we don't suffer the same fate. And good to know on the option to make the 15s + IRS work! As others have noted, it might be a headache, limit tire choices, drive expenses up, but dang it I'm going to give it a try. You all reserve the right to say "I told you so" when I'm kicking myself down the road ;)

[Kaase Cobra]

I'm on my second build. I would recommend if money isn't a gating factor build the car YOU WANT! Don't worry about resale or if others like it. You're the one who will drive it and love it and it should be a reflection of you. The forum is a never ending well of help and knowledge. It is worth it's weight in gold, but don't if we approve of your personal decisions on how it looks or what engine you choose.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

Thanks for the advice and warm welcome! And good luck with Build #2, I'm following along with the rest of the audience here!

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

Sounds like a cool build. I like 15 inch wheels as well.

Tell me do you have a, relative in the engine parts & building business?? (Jon Kaase?)

[Cobraman]

My advice is to just take your time enjoy every aspect of the build. When you get tired or frustrated just walk away for hour clear your head. TAKE YOUR TIME your going change your mind more than once when you get to building, one change leads to another. You start to see things that will make it easier to maintain and so on. This fourm has hundreds of years of experience don't let it go to waste. I find myself reading about some of the problems before I've gotten to that part of my build this has helped my tremendously. Also your build is just that your's, make it the way you want. All of us will help you in any way we can so you can accomplish your dream.

[Kaase Cobra]

Sounds like a cool build. I like 15 inch wheels as well.

Tell me do you have a, relative in the engine parts & building business?? (Jon Kaase?)

Thank you. Yes, he'll be the first generation of the three-generation build. Though to be fair he's got customers to focus on and things to invent, so I expect I can get more of his help during the 427 build and drivetrain install than getting under the cobra to run brake lines! I'll be the first to say I'm not nearly as mechanically inclined as the elder Kaase, so I'm afraid I'll be asking more questions of this forum than providing wisdom!

[Kaase Cobra]

My advice is to just take your time enjoy every aspect of the build. When you get tired or frustrated just walk away for hour clear your head. TAKE YOUR TIME your going change your mind more than once when you get to building, one change leads to another. You start to see things that will make it easier to maintain and so on. This fourm has hundreds of years of experience don't let it go to waste. I find myself reading about some of the problems before I've gotten to that part of my build this has helped my tremendously. Also your build is just that your's, make it the way you want. All of us will help you in any way we can so you can accomplish your dream.

Thank you very much for the advice! One thing that I do feel I have on my side is time. I'm in no rush to get this thing done.

[StangRacer]

Thank you. Yes, he'll be the first generation of the three-generation build. Though to be fair he's got customers to focus on and things to invent, so I expect I can get more of his help during the 427 build and drivetrain install than getting under the cobra to run brake lines! I'll be the first to say I'm not nearly as mechanically inclined as the elder Kaase, so I'm afraid I'll be asking more questions of this forum than providing wisdom!

That is very cool!!! you're not going to have any issues, at all, if you go with the FE.

[Infinitybox]

I would highly consider our Infinitybox system www.infinitybox.com It will make your wiring system state-of-the-art and simple. If I can help being a FF Form sponsor please let me know.

Thanks,
ANthony

[Mike.Bray]

Thanks Mike! Appreciate the advice. I might have to print that one out and tape it to the wall when things get moving. There are a few things I know I want in the build, and there are a few that I don't quite care about. For instance, keeping all 4 wheels on the ground and pointed in the right direction - very important! Interior - to me, not so much. I don't think I'll be bothering with AC, heated seats, audio, or any bells & whistles on the inside. I'll be lucky enough to get the electrical right as it is ;). Also, point taken on power steering and hydraulic clutch! I'll add it to the options list.

Heated seats, another one I wasn't planning on doing but the forum convinced me to. Glad I did, and my wife is especially glad we did.

Here is (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?49560-Swapping-Tilton-MC-for-Wilwood-MC) some interesting information for you to think about. And if you go with a hydraulic throwout bearing go with the Tilton, it's not something you want to be changing out later.

[MPTech]

If you're related to Jon Kaase, why wouldn't you be looking at installing a Kaase Boss Nine in it? That would be a no-brainer for me! That is an AWESOME engine with Stacks. That would be perfect in an MK5 (better than a Godzilla).
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https://jonkaaseracingengines.com/shop/boss-nine-parts/custom-bulit-boss-nine/

[Kaase Cobra]

If you're related to Jon Kaase, why wouldn't you be looking at installing a Kaase Boss Nine in it? That would be a no-brainer for me! That is an AWESOME engine with Stacks. That would be perfect in an MK5 (better than a Godzilla).
210222


https://jonkaaseracingengines.com/shop/boss-nine-parts/custom-bulit-boss-nine/

Oh yes, that will be in my next car project! It's a beautiful, powerful, amazing sounding piece of functional art. To be honest, though, I'm a bit terrified of that engine for my first project car. I feel like I might need to work my way up to it. I've seen some folks put the Boss 9 in factory 5 & superformance cobras, but they're braver men than me. I'd be going through a set of tires every week ;)

[Kaase Cobra]

Heated seats, another one I wasn't planning on doing but the forum convinced me to. Glad I did, and my wife is especially glad we did.

Here is (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?49560-Swapping-Tilton-MC-for-Wilwood-MC) some interesting information for you to think about. And if you go with a hydraulic throwout bearing go with the Tilton, it's not something you want to be changing out later.

Thanks for the heads up Mike! You just saved me a few weekends of headaches down the road.

[Windsorpower]

Say not a bad idea! Could save the weight and a few dollars and put that somewhere else on the build. Maybe even get it painted before I'm 80...:D

I hate to be rough, but if you’re still asking forums about an aluminum FE and acting surprised when someone suggests a 427W, you really need to hit “pause” on purchases and engine building and just get your ducks in a row for a bit longer.

[Rebostar]

I've built two cast iron 427FE's both 64's. (center oilers). I put one in a Thunderbolt clone which I sold to finance my Cobra and the other is in my 1970 Cougar. I also have done two SBF stroked to 427. One in my 47 Merc Coupe and the other in my Cobra. They all make pretty close to the same power, only the SBF Strokers are about 100lbs lighter and dont have the very finneky and hard to seal rear main seal nor the cross bolted mains which require very precise tolerances for the spacers. They have their other peculiarities too, only found in the old iron 427's. If you have lots of engine building experiance go for the nastagia. If not I strongly recommend the Stroker 427.

210746210747210748210749

I have to second Mike and others about the Power Steering. Get it, you wont regret it! I went with the E-Power Steering. Cheap, ugly, and fuctional. All in $850 with the FFR manual rack. The 17" wheels alowed me a great choice of quality Wilwood brakes as well.

210750210751210752

[Kaase Cobra]

I've built two cast iron 427FE's both 64's. (center oilers). I put one in a Thunderbolt clone which I sold to finance my Cobra and the other is in my 1970 Cougar. I also have done two SBF stroked to 427. One in my 47 Merc Coupe and the other in my Cobra. They all make pretty close to the same power, only the SBF Strokers are about 100lbs lighter and dont have the very finneky and hard to seal rear main seal nor the cross bolted mains which require very precise tolerances for the spacers. They have their other peculiarities too, only found in the old iron 427's. If you have lots of engine building experiance go for the nastagia. If not I strongly recommend the Stroker 427.

210746210747210748210749

I have to second Mike and others about the Power Steering. Get it, you wont regret it! I went with the E-Power Steering. Cheap, ugly, and fuctional. All in $850 with the FFR manual rack. The 17" wheels alowed me a great choice of quality Wilwood brakes as well.

210750210751210752

Thanks for the heads up! I'm still leaning aluminum 427FE, but appreciate that it will come with its own tradeoffs and challenges. And definitely heard regarding the power steering!

[Kaase Cobra]

Update: I had a chance to stop by the Shelby Heritage Center in Las Vegas last week, and it definitely cemented one of my build choices: 15 inch wheels. Something about them just looks right on these cars. All acknowledgement to the limitations noted by the builders above, but to me it's worth the tradeoff. Here are a few of my favorites:

211017
211018
211019

PS - not sure why it rotated the pictures :eek:

[MPTech]

The 15" wheels/tires are GREAT looking, especially the GY Billboards! But there are a lot of compromises with that decision. There are also alternatives that can mitigate some minor issues. Aftermarket brakes are available that will work with the 15" wheels (I forget the vendor at the moment, but he's very knowledgable). The GY Billboards are difficult to source and not good for street use, but Cooper makes good 15" tires and Avon makes an excellent alternative too. Both can be treated with Tire Stickers for the traditional look.
Good Luck with you build, make sure to post updates & pictures.

[cv2065]

I'm sure you are aware that the Goodyear Billboards are not technically DOT legal and being 60's technology that don't ride as nicely as a modern radial. As MPT said, might be worth your while to source a more modern and available 15" tire and take a look at the tire stickers. I've used them before and were great.

[MPTech]

I think the Cooper Cobra tires are a great bang-for-the-buck street tire (radial). I heard the Avons are now made by Coker Tires. I don't know the performance or price of the new Cokers, but the old Avons were pricey, very sticky, and didn't last long (they also threw a lot of rocks (I heard, but never got close enough to find out). The Good Years are super cool looking, but as cv2065 said, they are not street-legal and are bias-ply and will flat spot when they sit awhile.

[OSU Cowboy]

Go to build school - Mott Community College. You will get hands-on experience, knowledge, and very likely will pay you back in terms of mistakes you will avoid.

[Wizbangdoodle]

I really like the FE idea. Nothing like the original look. If you do go with the FE, look up Blair Patrick. He's building an FE for me for my '67 F-250. Not aluminum block, but it does have aluminum heads and intake. All he does are FE's.

[ASL67]

I am new to the forum and doing a lot of reading on here. Just had to say when time comes for myself to pull the trigger, my plan was for the 15" wheels as well, love the classic look and white letter wall tires.

[Kaase Cobra]

The 15" wheels/tires are GREAT looking, especially the GY Billboards! But there are a lot of compromises with that decision. There are also alternatives that can mitigate some minor issues. Aftermarket brakes are available that will work with the 15" wheels (I forget the vendor at the moment, but he's very knowledgable). The GY Billboards are difficult to source and not good for street use, but Cooper makes good 15" tires and Avon makes an excellent alternative too. Both can be treated with Tire Stickers for the traditional look.
Good Luck with you build, make sure to post updates & pictures.

Thank you! Yes I'd heard that the Coopers were probably the way to go with 15's. I admit I might get cheesy and add the tire stickers later on though - just a sucker for the look.

[Kaase Cobra]

Go to build school - Mott Community College. You will get hands-on experience, knowledge, and very likely will pay you back in terms of mistakes you will avoid.

On the list! Do you all know if they plan to switch over to the MK5 format at Mott any time soon?

[Kaase Cobra]

Hey crew, update since my last post earlier this year. I've removed two blockers from starting the build: First, I was able to get moved into a new house with a garage and room to build a separate detached garage for the cobra build - next step here is applying for building permits to start the build. Otherwise, I'm going to have car parts stored under my kids' cribs ;). Second, I signed up for build school this winter! Can't wait to see it all come to life and learn some of the watch-outs first hand. Will post back here as (slow) progress get's made -

[TrackDay17]

Hey crew, update since my last post earlier this year. I've removed two blockers from starting the build: First, I was able to get moved into a new house with a garage and room to build a separate detached garage for the cobra build - next step here is applying for building permits to start the build. Otherwise, I'm going to have car parts stored under my kids' cribs ;). Second, I signed up for build school this winter! Can't wait to see it all come to life and learn some of the watch-outs first hand. Will post back here as (slow) progress get's made -

Congrats on the new house and upcoming shop.
I attended the build school in August and we built a MK5.
Excellent school and well worth your time.

I've got a MK5 that will be delivered in November and a Blueprint 347 on order too.

[Kaase Cobra]

Congrats on the new house and upcoming shop.
I attended the build school in August and we built a MK5.
Excellent school and well worth your time.

I've got a MK5 that will be delivered in November and a Blueprint 347 on order too.


Congrats! Anything you wish they would have spent more time/detail on at Build School? Glad to hear its the MK5 platform. Good luck with your build!

[Kaase Cobra]

Update: Made it to Build School up in Flint last weekend. It was... cold. But also incredibly informative. I learned a lot, and it was great to get my hands on the car and start to see it all come together in person. Would recommend for anyone on the fence about whether or not they can take on this project.

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[2nd2none]

Hey! Thats me! haha. Good times at the school. Good luck with the build when you get there. I'll be looking forward to following your progress.
222937

-Jason

[Kaase Cobra]

Great meeting you there Jason, good luck with your build! Build school did help me confirm a few decisions:

1. 15" wheels w IRS - 15" wheels just looks right. I understand that I'll be limited on brake & time options, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.
2. 427 FE Aluminum block - I think the elder Kaase is sold on building something that looks and feels pretty close to the originals - turkey pan and all, but without the added ~130lbs in iron weight.
3. Seat riser / slider - I had no idea how low I would feel in the new Mk5 chassis. I'm 6'3" and felt like a child sunk below the steering wheel. Also, the steering wheel brackets will need to be modified to drop the angle.
4. No / low frills - this will be my first build, so I'm not going to overcomplicate it. No heat, no A/C, no radio, no fancy bells & whistles... It will be a miracle if I can get this thing road worthy in it's simplest form. The extra complexity I can save for my next build.
5. Hydraulic clutch - I don't think I do enough leg presses to handle the standard cable clutch... that thing is a load.
6. No brake booster - Seems like it might be cumbersome and in the way, and may not need it if I upgrade the pads. Seems like a two-way-door decision that I can add later on if I hate the standard brakes. There was also some concern from the wiser Kaase that we might not throw off enough vacuum to run it at all depending on how silly we get with the cam.

That's all for now. Next step is petitioning the county to let me build a detached garage a few feet closer to the property line than the rules allow. Fingers crossed.

- Austin

[Jeff Kleiner]

Great meeting you there Jason, good luck with your build! Build school did help me confirm a few decisions:

1. 15" wheels w IRS - 15" wheels just looks right. I understand that I'll be limited on brake & time options, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.
2. 427 FE Aluminum block - I think the elder Kaase is sold on building something that looks and feels pretty close to the originals - turkey pan and all, but without the added ~130lbs in iron weight.
3. Seat riser / slider - I had no idea how low I would feel in the new Mk5 chassis. I'm 6'3" and felt like a child sunk below the steering wheel. Also, the steering wheel brackets will need to be modified to drop the angle.
4. No / low frills - this will be my first build, so I'm not going to overcomplicate it. No heat, no A/C, no radio, no fancy bells & whistles... It will be a miracle if I can get this thing road worthy in it's simplest form. The extra complexity I can save for my next build.
5. Hydraulic clutch - I don't think I do enough leg presses to handle the standard cable clutch... that thing is a load.
6. No brake booster - Seems like it might be cumbersome and in the way, and may not need it if I upgrade the pads. Seems like a two-way-door decision that I can add later on if I hate the standard brakes. There was also some concern from the wiser Kaase that we might not throw off enough vacuum to run it at all depending on how silly we get with the cam.

That's all for now. Next step is petitioning the county to let me build a detached garage a few feet closer to the property line than the rules allow. Fingers crossed.

- Austin

Sounds like you have a solid plan! Just don't let that "No frills" mindset make you think that you don't want power steering. You do...not because the steering effort will be high but because PS will allow you to set the suspension up to make the car more stable and drive much better at speed. Trust me on this!

Jeff

[Kaase Cobra]

Thanks for the rec Jeff! Yes, Power Steering is on the small list of must haves. But probably going to pass on making the very hard decision on where to place the cupholder... ;)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Thanks for the rec Jeff! Yes, Power Steering is on the small list of must haves. But probably going to pass on making the very hard decision on where to place the cupholder... ;)

Ha! No cup holders on my old roadster and none on my new Mk5, much to my wife's chagrin. :p

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

But probably going to pass on making the very hard decision on where to place the cupholder... ;)

I started out without cupholders but ended up adding them later. They do come in handy. Just be sure and insulate them.

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[cv2065]

I started out without cupholders but ended up adding them later. They do come in handy. Just be sure and insulate them.

223009223010

+1. I use mine for my phone as well as keys, etc. You can also put a rubber gasket around the top underneath so they don't blow out. :D

[Kaase Cobra]

Good call, thank you all. Also, I get a chuckle thinking about the poor fella who learned about insulating the cupholders the hard way and melted their coke can.