Factory Five MARK 5 - Beta #3 In the house!!! (WE HAVE PAINT)

[Erik W. Treves]

Let me start off by saying thanks to Dave for trusting me with this and to Jim and Jesper and the rest of the boys and gals at FFR - the whole team! I have been working with Jeff K. and Ron E. via phone and text pass every bit of feedback to the engineering team at FFR. Ron being close to FFR is key for rapid changes and live feedback, Jeff - aka "robin" - no surprise when he was tasked with evaluating the body, and then me - the long distance delivery to check packaging, instructions and the third set of eyes... the triple check if you will.

I will be dropping vids weekly as I am basically done and ready for alignment and paint as of this morning.... I think I did ok at capturing the build ... mainly the wrap up of each day approach.

My initial impression of the car:

The body is volumes better that I have seen thus far!

I have not hid my opinion that the 65 Coupe is the best car that FFR has ever built - not as much from the timeless styling but the CHASSIS and the way it drives as a result. I have been to 150+ MPH, been in the rain, autox'd it, drag raced it, and is my basically by swiss (US) Army knife car... love it and i have had this car longer than any other OEM car I have owned... and it's all about the chassis and good foundation - this allows that car to be very comfortable going down the road and also be an absolute beast when it needs to be.

The MARK 5 is a short version of the Coupe Chassis - just walking around it I know it is going to be pretty awesome.. with the shorter wheel base it may loose some of that straight line stability at 130+.... but I think every where else it is gonna shine.... on top of that there a bunch of little things - that you can see where FFR was been listening / noting to overall customer feedback - careful not lean too far one way or the other... for example I haven't opened up or elongated ONE mounting point! Anyway - all to say - I am so EXCITED about this car.... My first FFR was a MARK1 - and with the MARK 5 I feel invigorated! I does look like the MK4 - but make no mistake this aint just another version - this is the next level

my only issue now is - Do I keep my Hawk Coupe!!!

Stay tuned!!!


https://youtu.be/C1dtxCfl5Vk?feature=shared

[Blitzboy54]

I’m so excited that the build threads are now out. Love your videos and will follow along for sure.

[cv2065]

No elongation of the mounting points? It’s the little things! Looking forward to your build thread Erik. It’s going to be awesome!

[GoDadGo]

How About A CSX 3243 Theme?

https://youtu.be/E-qPkepYZjk

I Am Sure It Will Be Amazing!

[Dave Tabor]

Would love to see details of the front and rear A-arms...and if the front spindles have been revised...

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
24,000+ miles

[Erik W. Treves]

Dave - they didn't have those ready when I got my kit unfortunately

[Dave Tabor]

Dave - they didn't have those ready when I got my kit unfortunately

Thanks Eric - good to know.

I'm just about to change all the A-arm and steering rack bushings in my car...and thought maybe 'while I'm in there...'

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17

[Erik W. Treves]

Just a quick teaser update - you will need to come back on Saturday


https://youtu.be/j8tdrOp_t-g

[pelzerd]

Thanks for videos, looking forward to following along!

[Scott Zackowski]

I am really glad you are doing these videos, as many are interested in the Mk V.

Following you on YouTube as well.

[Higgybulin]

Going to play hockey! That's awesome! If you decipher my screen name you'll realize we are kinda related. Lol
Higgy

[GoDadGo]

Eric,

It seems this chassis will allow the installation of some very comfortable aftermarket seats for guys who aren't over 6'0" tall.
The extra cockpit space looks like it could give builders 6'0" shorter other options.
With that being said, what kind of seats do you plan to install in your new MK-5?
I'm 5'10" and the car seemed to swallow Dave Smith and he's 5'11".
Any thoughts you care to share would be appreciated.

Steve

[Erik W. Treves]

Steve it's Coupe big - at 5' 6" I am having to do small people adjustments to fit into it.... almost the opposite problem from all the previous versions....lol...

[Erik W. Treves]

First week/weekend complete - moving along now.... video is up ....


https://youtu.be/bo2eXPV8TVA

[GoDadGo]

Steve it's Coupe big - at 5' 6" I am having to do small people adjustments to fit into it.... almost the opposite problem from all the previous versions....lol...

Wow!

The potential customer base that was previously excluded, because of height, now has a car that is capable of allowing them to join the fun.
It totally blew me away when Mark D. got in the car and then amazed me when it swallowed up Dave's daughter when she sat in it.
I've sent E-Mails to all my taller pals, that don't fit in my Dark Side MK-4, that now Factory-5 has a car for them too.

Thanks For The Response!

[David Hodgkins]

Wow, your getting it together quick! Following!

:)

[Scott Zackowski]

Raptor Liner? I am not familiar with that. What is it? Who makes it?

On my Mk4 I used shark hide. It worked out pretty good and held up well over the years but it does not tolerate oil or brake fluid.

[fauxbra5.0]

Raptor Liner? I am not familiar with that. What is it? Who makes it?

On my Mk4 I used shark hide. It worked out pretty good and held up well over the years but it does not tolerate oil or brake fluid.

Raptor Liner is a polyurethane spray-on bedliner made by U-POL. A number of builders have used this on the panels instead of Sharkskin, as well as under the body to protect from rocks starring the paint.

https://www.amazon.com/U-Pol-Raptor-Urethane-Spray-Liters/dp/B01CKE7B1E

[dalves]

Thanks for making these videos, it's great to see the car coming together. Do you think the Mk 5 is easier to put together for a first-time builder?

[GoDadGo]

Wow, your getting it together quick! Following!

:)

David,

Have you ordered your MK-5 Roadster yet?

Steve

[rich grsc]

Wow, your getting it together quick! Following!

:)
He has had the kit for sometime already

[Erik W. Treves]

He has had the kit for sometime already

Kit delivery was on 5 Dec. Videos are in actual build speed - just delayed release with the launch

[Erik W. Treves]

I didn't get as much time to work on it during week 2 - but I think for the time I had, it looks like good progress.


https://youtu.be/LHuFdrFbPuQ

[Erik W. Treves]

Week 3 arrived - well this was during Christmas - anyway -- video has some good details in it - things to look out for and some other items - hope you find it useful


https://youtu.be/lE0QcjHvCpU

[Erik W. Treves]

Week 4 - did it start .....or......


https://youtu.be/2JNkG1wUvkg

[GoDadGo]

It is always fun to watch your builds, especially when it is a Beta Build!
Hopefully one day we'll see you doing Betta Build a Daytona Spyder.
Thanks as always because I learn a lot from your videos.

[Jeff Kleiner]

"This part...well, I'll tell ya' what I'm going to get when I get it..." ;) :D

Jeff

[rponfick]

Eric, enjoying your comments and videos. I have my Mk 5 on order with March 15 production date, so can't wait.
I am about 5'10" tall also, and wondering if you have ideas if seats will need raising, and how you would do that? I have seen a couple of comments on this.
You mention a couple of times the "instructions", so is there a new assembly manual for the Mk5, or do they plan to use the Mk4 manual, with some updates? I realize you are a "professional" and very familiar with these kits, but what about the novice?
Do you have any suggestions other than watching your videos?
I am sure I will have lots of additional questions.
Thanks, Ralph

[Erik W. Treves]

The MK5 is a new manual - but has some MK4 pics and instructions in it since there a lot of the same components - all the new stuff is centered around the changes specific to the MK5.

I raised the seats with a combination of seat tracks and spacer... nothing complicated since it doesn't need to be.

As far as building goes - this is always a tough one - what is easy to some may not be to others..... there is the MOTTS school.... but I look at this way - if you look at the whole car it does look complicated. IMO, does a great job with the kit... so in your head don't look at it as building a whole car.... look at it as you are assembling parts... the lower control arm is 2 Bolts, 2 washers and 2 nuts, the upper control arm is (one needs to be flipped) is 2 bolts, 2 nuts and ball joint. The front spindle is 2 bolts, 4 nuts, 1 hub and hub nut.... now you have a front corner done ready to do brakes. You just need to , Begin.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The MK5 is a new manual - but has some MK4 pics and instructions in it since there a lot of the same components - all the new stuff is centered around the changes specific to the MK5.

I raised the seats with a combination of seat tracks and spacer... nothing complicated since it doesn't need to be.

As far as building goes - this is always a tough one - what is easy to some may not be to others..... there is the MOTTS school.... but I look at this way - if you look at the whole car it does look complicated. IMO, does a great job with the kit... so in your head don't look at it as building a whole car.... look at it as you are assembling parts... the lower control arm is 2 Bolts, 2 washers and 2 nuts, the upper control arm is (one needs to be flipped) is 2 bolts, 2 nuts and ball joint. The front spindle is 2 bolts, 4 nuts, 1 hub and hub nut.... now you have a front corner done ready to do brakes. You just need to , Begin.

I agree with Erik; the builders' comfort level probably depends to a large extent on their experience. I will say that each generation gets better with more details in the manual and what I've found with my Mk5 is that it goes together even easier and more smoothly than the Mk4 and Mk3 before that---and those were pretty good!

Good luck!

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Just like eating an elephant,,,,,one bite at a time.

[rponfick]

Good to hear there is a new assembly manual.
Would you care to share your panel coating procedure with the Raptor Liner? Did you use their primer, or just scuff, clean and spray? It appears from your videos that you do not coat both sides of all panels. In cockpit area you use XXX liner on some interior panels, but do you continue this under all carpeted interior areas, with maybe some Raptor on the under bottom sides? On the trunk panel sides, you coat the outside, but not the interior. Do you coat the panels on the areas where they rivet and glue to the structure? I know the panels formerly added rigidity to the frame, but with this new frame, it may not be an issue if adhesion is slightly less.
I apologize for rambling on with all these questions, and just tell be to chill out if I get too bothersome.
Thanks, Ralph

[Erik W. Treves]

I sanded all the exposed panels with 80 grit then sprayed.... if you look at some of the earlier videos I rattle matted every thing on the inside... didn't spray anything on the inside. The panels don't add much strength to the frame at all - they are bonded to the frame just so they don't rattle. The new 33 hotrods have a panel bonded floor - the other cars don't - so that concern really isn't really a thing.... it isn't a stressed skin design.

[Erik W. Treves]

No more naked car - Body is on!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYYiqYdQnxc

[GoDadGo]

I can't believe just how nice the body looks compared to my MK-4.
I'm so glad Dave and his team listed to Jeff Kleiner.
Good Luck & Thanks For Sharing!

[Higgybulin]

I liked the simplicity of the electrical tape tip. Let us know what the perment solution is.
Higgy

[Erik W. Treves]

Right on track - Week 6 and it's off to paint!!


https://youtu.be/x1buCeKpzG4

[cv2065]

Wow. Lot of great upgrades that you don't have to go aftermarket for. Nose aluminum, self cancelling turn signal and the rollbar is so much better than the paperclip. Nice work Erik. It's amazing how quickly your builds go!

[Erik W. Treves]

Well - week 7 complete - car back in the garage and naked again - figured it was time to learn custom interior - first try....


https://youtu.be/ib3ge1eG5Pk

[rponfick]

Eric, I see in your last video that you have the driver seat adjuster installed. You are about my size, and I am wondering how much spacing you are thinking about adding under the seats. Will you just raise the slider on spacers? Have any idea what you will use for spacers, as a 2x4's may not be that elegant. Is the floor fairly flat so you could use a square piece of something, or will you need individual spacers under each bolt location?
Enjoying your build, and the custom interior.
Thanks, Ralph.

[Erik W. Treves]

I did put spacers on the adjuster and they are higher in the front than the rear.... the spacers are between the seat and the sliders... 1 inch in the front and 1/2 inch in the rear.

[Ejzajac]

Eric, Really enjoy your build series!
I see you have a very different air intake route/system than most builders on the Coyote. What are you thoughts on that route? Anxiously waiting on my mk5 and Gen 4X.

[Erik W. Treves]

Ralph

answered you on Youtube channel - I installed spacers between the seat and the seat track

[Erik W. Treves]

Week 8 done - Alignment and corner weigh...


https://youtu.be/1bMmUvQX7wM

[J R Jones]

You lost me at toe measurement. I have used a string kit on race cars but I never accepted that frame surfaces would be symmetrical reference points side to side. I always plotted the vehicle centerline front to rear and worked off of that.
jim

[Erik W. Treves]

Frame surfaces as reference only - suspension pick up points and hubs are really the only ones I trust - the rear toe measurement was in fact showing in this case you can trust the frame since the rim to string distance was exactly the same side to side (relative to the front hub).... the frame piece was more to measure thrust not toe anyway... more that one way to skin a cat.

[PMD24]

Erik, thanks for showing this alignment detail. Just making sure I understand your process correctly.

The lines not being parallel doesn't matter because you are using the lines initially to roughly align front and rear wheels parallel using side to side equal measurements off the frame to do so??

You mentioned getting your square out but didn't show that. Am I correct in assuming you used the square to mark the tape on the floor in line with the string at the front and rear edge of the rim??

For toe, the fact that the lines are not parallel doesn't matter because you are doing "relative" measurements at the front and rear of the rear rims. And the lines are pushed out at the front to ensure they rest on the rear of the tire and clear the rim to allow for these relative measurements. In other words, you could push those front lines out a foot and still work to your 3/16 difference between the front and rear edge of the rim??

Thanks,

Pat

[Erik W. Treves]

The string isn't parallel cause the front and rear track widths are not the same.... I measured off the frame first - but because the frame can have some tolerance deltas the rear tow is adjusted for the distance from the string to the front of the rim are equal with a total difference between the front of the rim and rear of rim (on the rear wheel) are such to achieve a 1/8 - 3/16 toe in... the square is just laid on the front and rear edges of the rim and then I just mark the floor where the corner of the square touches the ground.

to your last question - yes but the further you get away from the wheel the less accurate you will be with the thrust.

you want to work THRUST first then TOE... you don't need the string at all to work TOE... you only need the string to verify THRUST so the car doesn't crab down the road - and to make sure the steering wheel in centered when setting the front toe

[PMD24]

Thanks Erik. I think I've got my head around it now.

Pat

[Erik W. Treves]

Week 9 - we will have no NA cars in my garage!


https://youtu.be/NxSB1KbYCOk

[Blitzboy54]

This crazy, I assume this is now a 650? HP roadster?

Did you upgrade the pump or injectors for this or can the Gen 4 handle it as is?

[Erik W. Treves]

upgraded the port injectors with the ones that came with the kit; I put a larger fuel pump in the tank as well.

[Erik W. Treves]

Mark 5 is at paint - nothing really to do on the chassis - so moving back to the Gen 3 Coupe R - look next week on the Coupe forum for updates there and completion...


https://youtu.be/_63APOYUVn4

[Higgybulin]

Well congrats on the retirement! Enjoy the 'few days off' LOL!!!

[rponfick]

Eric, I think I noticed in your build video a copy of the Assembly Manual laying on the car in some views. And, you indicated to my question on this that there was a new manual for the Mk5. I just got my kit and could not find the paper manual. In inquiring today with FFR, they indicate the manual is a digital PDF on their website.
I am old school and expected a paper manual with the kit. I do not want to printout out paper constantly or refer to my computer for information. I would think for $38K+ I would get a real manual.
Did you get one, or just refer to the previous Mk4 manual?
I will be extremely disappointed if everything is PDF.
Thanks, Ralph

[Takis31gk]

Have the PDF printed and spiral bound at your local print shop or Staples.

[Erik W. Treves]

I used the digital manual and pieces of the coupe manual

[dalves]

Thanks for making all these videos, it's great to follow along with your progress. At the unveiling, Dave Smith mentioned they improved the side pipes for the Mark 5, said they're higher quality now and have a mellower sound. Have you noticed a difference between the old sidepipes and the new ones? I'm trying to decide whether to buy Gas-N side pipes for my Mark 5.

[Erik W. Treves]

yes they are deeper and quieter than the normal pipes - and they appear to be "thicker" or beefier.

[gbranham]

Eric, I think I noticed in your build video a copy of the Assembly Manual laying on the car in some views. And, you indicated to my question on this that there was a new manual for the Mk5. I just got my kit and could not find the paper manual. In inquiring today with FFR, they indicate the manual is a digital PDF on their website.
I am old school and expected a paper manual with the kit. I do not want to printout out paper constantly or refer to my computer for information. I would think for $38K+ I would get a real manual.
Did you get one, or just refer to the previous Mk4 manual?
I will be extremely disappointed if everything is PDF.
Thanks, Ralph

I will say my MkIV came with a printed manual, and I referred to it during suspension buildup, then rarely used it afterward. I found that to be the case with my MkIII, as well. At some point, you realize you haven't opened the manual in a long time. On the brief occasion I needed it in the later stages of my build, I referred to the PDF digital copy, because it's in color; the printed manual is in black and white. The color photos definitely help. If not having a printed manual is an extreme disappointment for you, you might want to adjust your expectations. It's not really a big deal.

Greg

[rponfick]

Eric, where did you mount your fuel pump and lines? The only video spot you mentioned the fuel lines was shown running along the upper passenger side of the tranny tunnel. The Holley 12-801-1 pump, that came with my Blueprint engine, says to mount below and as close to the tank as possible. Also, vertically, and which all this appears problematic.
The new Mk5 frame configuration seems to make all of this a challenge.
Do you have any wise comments or suggestions
Thanks, Ralph

[Erik W. Treves]

I am running an internal 525LPH pump using the supplied hanger - in the couple (which is basically the same) I have an external pump and it's in the rear left fender well.

[Erik W. Treves]

WE ARE BACK - !!!!!!

we have paint! New video below -- everyone was asking about it at open house and Ohio - unfortunately we couldn't make it - but as luck would have it - 2weeks after - now we have paint!


https://youtu.be/FfFEcmsyn6I

[Blitzboy54]

WOW Lookin sharp!!

I love the beige interior against the blue. How far off was that shade from the gel coat? Any feedback form the painter on body prep vs the older kits?

[Erik W. Treves]

The painter said it was WAY better

[edwardb]

Hey Eric. Looks great. Love the blue and also the contrast against the light colored interior. I see you have the new FF turn signal installed. Couple questions if you don't mind. I just received my Mk5 kit a few days ago and the turn signal setup is new and I'm trying to make sure I understand it. The Mk5 build manual says the trailer converter isn't required. Clearly it plugs into the Hot Rod harness and everything works from there. Like the ididit column with the hot rod and truck. The rectangular rear lights are only three wire, so apparently the separate brake light wire isn't used. Again like the hot rod and truck. Sound right? But my bigger (and probably trivial) question is the hazard switch appears to only be accessible from under the dash? Since the knob is shown installed on the side of the switch which is behind the dash. Sound right?

Paul B.

[Erik W. Treves]

Some updated pictures for the next video update:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215717&d=1751283120

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215716&d=1751283120

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215718&d=1751283120

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215719&d=1751283120

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215720&d=1751283120

[GoDadGo]

Bravo, Bravo & Bravo!

[gbranham]

What blue is that? Im going Patriot Blue, a Ram truck color. Its a bit darker than yours, I think. Yours looks sharp.

[Erik W. Treves]

Hey Eric. Looks great. Love the blue and also the contrast against the light colored interior. I see you have the new FF turn signal installed. Couple questions if you don't mind. I just received my Mk5 kit a few days ago and the turn signal setup is new and I'm trying to make sure I understand it. The Mk5 build manual says the trailer converter isn't required. Clearly it plugs into the Hot Rod harness and everything works from there. Like the ididit column with the hot rod and truck. The rectangular rear lights are only three wire, so apparently the separate brake light wire isn't used. Again like the hot rod and truck. Sound right? But my bigger (and probably trivial) question is the hazard switch appears to only be accessible from under the dash? Since the knob is shown installed on the side of the switch which is behind the dash. Sound right?

Paul B.

Hey Paul -

you are correct in all respects.

The new turn stalk doesn't use the trailer adapter - and you don't use the brake lights to the rear - the turn stalk figures that all internally.

Yes again, the hazard switch is basically hidden behind the dash.... Mine just failed in fact.... not sure how serviceable it is now to remove the dash.... it looks like this might be an issue, so I am going to put a dedicate hazard switch in the dash - just have to figure out how I can intercept the signals needed to make that happen. unfortunate that it happened - but better now than later in my opinion.

[Erik W. Treves]

Well - I screwed up the trunk - my fault completely - it was going so good - just not paying attention and I have never done this mistake before (just dumb)..... moving on but wont get done until next week.


https://youtu.be/HGDspjhwl6A

[GoDadGo]

Erik,

We all know why you made that "Boo-Boo!"
You did it on purpose just to make us feel better about our abilities or lack there of.
All kidding aside, if this is the worst thing that happened then all is right with the world so don't fret.
Thanks again for your service to our country.

Steve

[TrackDay17]

Beautiful car ! I guess you got the first scratch out of the way now so you'll be good from here on out !

[Higgybulin]

Sorry if I missed it somewhere in the videos but did FF change the style of carpet in the MK5 or did you supply for the Beta? Seems the pile is more course.
Higgy

[edwardb]

Hey Paul -

you are correct in all respects.

The new turn stalk doesn't use the trailer adapter - and you don't use the brake lights to the rear - the turn stalk figures that all internally.

Yes again, the hazard switch is basically hidden behind the dash.... Mine just failed in fact.... not sure how serviceable it is now to remove the dash.... it looks like this might be an issue, so I am going to put a dedicate hazard switch in the dash - just have to figure out how I can intercept the signals needed to make that happen. unfortunate that it happened - but better now than later in my opinion.

Eric, thanks for the reply. I'll be interested to see what you come up. I haven't had a chance to study the schematic or switch yet to see what might be possible. The hazard switch under the dash is not only inconvenient I suspect it will be a legal/inspection issue for some location regulations. It's not on the list for Michigan to inspect, and I don't use mine much if at all, but still would prefer something better.

Separate note on your latest post. Who hasn't drilled too far and caused damage? I'll admit to multiple times over the years. I managed to drill through the hood on my truck build while installing the release mechanism. The only differences were it wasn't painted yet (thankfully) and I didn't post about it. :p

[Blitzboy54]

I always post my mistakes. I think it makes me look like a sloppy builder but there is so much value in learning what not to do. Every time a new guy at work makes a mistake the first thing I ask once we get the issue under control is what did you learn?

I’m in the body work phase myself and I am so jealous of the MKV body.

Looks really good Erik.

[Erik W. Treves]

Eric, thanks for the reply. I'll be interested to see what you come up. I haven't had a chance to study the schematic or switch yet to see what might be possible. The hazard switch under the dash is not only inconvenient I suspect it will be a legal/inspection issue for some location regulations. It's not on the list for Michigan to inspect, and I don't use mine much if at all, but still would prefer something better.

Separate note on your latest post. Who hasn't drilled too far and caused damage? I'll admit to multiple times over the years. I managed to drill through the hood on my truck build while installing the release mechanism. The only differences were it wasn't painted yet (thankfully) and I didn't post about it. :p

Paul

I am going to intercept the turn signal wires (splice into them) and then disconnect the hazard switch completely.... run that to a dedicated push button switch... the 4 turn signal wires will have isolating diodes so that the turn signals still work correctly... should have something working next weekend.