Needing APE Hardtop literature

[ProfessorB]

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I've got a Mark II. A painted-to-match APE hardtop came with the car. No mounting hardware and no windows. I did find windows for it and I have a kit designed for C-1 Corvettes to secure the back of the hardtop to the rear deck. I am clueless as to how the front of the hardtop attaches to the top of the windshield. I've looked all over online but have found very little information. I'm hoping somebody has the original APE literature and directions. I'd gladly pay for copying costs and mailing fees, etc. I'm one of those guys that likes (and saves) factory installation literature. Happy New Year to All...

[CraigS]

These pics from my MkII may help. Sorry about the low quality.
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This the piece that is attached to the w/s frame w/ small machine screws into existing threaded holes.
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This looks at the top as it is ready to be removed. The piece on the top itself is attached w/ thumb screws w/ plastic heads. Here they have been loosened and the sheet aluminum piece allowed to drop so it is hanging below the piece on the w/s frame
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This is the aluminum 'hook cross section' piece attached to the top w/ the thumb screws. You can see the slots that allow it to slide up and down when the screws are loosened. I can do a drawing or 2 if these pics lack enough detail. BTW the Corvette hardware is what does probably 90% of holding the top on the car. One time I had one of those rare occasions pulling onto an interstate and finding no one in front of me so I quick blast to 100 was fun. Later I looked up and the passenger side attacher has hanging not rattle loose, but definitely not doing it's job either.

[ProfessorB]

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Thanks Craig. You don't know me (I'm mostly just a reader) but I know you. I've read TONS of your helpful posts, you've helped me (and others) a lot. The pics do "sort of" help. The main problem is my ability to understand something until I'm familiar with it. That's the main reason I'm still hoping I can get the original literature. I'm going to study the pics and see if it can't sink in a little (that sometimes happens) before I form any questions. Still hoping for original literature (again because of my "learning disability"). Thank you so much for helping all of us. Happy New Year

[CraigS]

My skills w/ paint.net aren't that great but maybe this will help. Click to enlarge
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[Jeff Kleiner]

Craig's diagram is accurate for the supplied APE top hardware. The "small W/S frame piece" is actually the mounting tab for sun visors (which can't be used with the top installed). I did an APE top for a customer 2-3 years ago and found that the slotted sheet aluminum pieces that hook over these tabs were very flimsy and didn't do a good job of keeping the top secured. I made some brackets to replace those using extruded aluminum channel riveted to a piece of slotted flat aluminum. Rather than the thumbscrews which didn't hold well I used hex nuts. These are the only pics that I have but maybe they will help.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208416&d=1735829104

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208417&d=1735829131

A couple of small details; although Craig doesn't show it in his diagram there is a rubber weatherstrip that gets installed into the top's channel that goes over the windshield. Also you might notice that there is a notch in the top flange to clear the inner visor mounting tabs (I'm pretty sure that the owner of this one will seldom if ever remove the top he wanted to have the option of installing visors should he do so).

Good luck!

Jeff


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[Badfish]

I’ve always wondered if you could use the front bow from the soft top, rivet it to the APE channel. Then attached it to the windshield with the over-center latches, just like the soft top.

I’m not a fan of the APE front sheet metal brackets either, but I’m using the corvette ferrules in the rear, which holds it down tight.

Search my posts, I think I did some documenting. Might be on the other forum.

[ProfessorB]

Craig, Jeff, Badfish...thank you all. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this which is why I'm still searching for the original literature. I HAVE learned a few things:
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1) Most of the strength comes from the rear mounting. I think I'm on the right track with the C-1 Vette rear deck kit.
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2) SOME kind of attachment must be made to the windshield (I think). I guess I'm at liberty to fabricate my own front mounting...is that correct? I've seen lots of guys on here come up with all kinds of "better" ideas in all kinds of areas. I guess that's the true "Cobra guy" way. Here's a question: is it recommended that I remove the visors and use those existing holes to "tie in" in the front? (And I'm grateful to be told about the rubber molding needed in the front). At this point, I'm wondering if I couldn't get some "cam lever adjustable toggle" type bolts like is seen on so many convertibles.
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3) The top came without windows. I DO know that the windows are needed to "locate" the angle and position of the top. That needs to be done BEFORE I can attach the rear (since it may move the final top position). I have THREE windows, 2 for one side and 1 for the other. Right now I don't know if I have 2 rights and a left or vice-versa. Can anybody post a pic of either side?

[CraigS]

The sliding window piece goes to the inside of the main window.
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Originally the front edges of both pieces of lexan were in line. But later I realized that at speed the window is being sucked out. That in mind, + I thought it looked nicer, + it helps w/ rain dripping while stopped, I made the notch in the bottom corner 3/8" longer. This let me push the movable piece further forward so it fit inside the w/s frame. The small piece of wood spaced the whole window inward when the latch was closed. Later I made another from 1/4x1/2 al flat bar.

[CraigS]

Also I positioned the top fore and aft to give what I thought was the best looking alignment w/ the rear door edge.
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Then I adjusted the w/s angle to fit the top. BTW I made my own side windows. Lot's of layout time. I wanted the top to look like an extension of the door window. I wanted the front side to parallel the door window, and I wanted the bottom to parallel the bottom of the top.
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I made these about 2 years before I sold the car. They were a game changer when pulling out somewhere, or when backing up. If I were you, I'd make them now. They were w -itch to install w/ the seal so I made the first one of 1/8" plexiglass since it is less $. Once I had the shape that would fit, I copied it in 1/8" lexan.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The APE top that I dealt with on a customer car complicated things because it was actually a Mk3 top being used on a Mk4 but I'll echo much of what Craig said. There is some give and take between the windshield angle, the top and windows but you mostly need key the position of the top based on it's intersection with the door opening:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208529&d=1736000901

That will then dictate your windshield angle. Once that is established the hinges will establish the window position vertically and you can then adjust their horizontal fore/aft position so that they meet the curve and forward edge of the window opening. In the end I wound up doing some trimming of the windows along the bottom edge where they meet the door provide room for the weatherstrip and along the front to best match the windshield. I did this using a DA with 80 grit initially and then cleaned and smoothed using finer grits; 150 and 220. As for left or right; the sliding portion is inside as are the latching levers. My customer had rear quarter windows that he got with the top which I had to cut in ands install. As Craig said they really improve visibility and I think they help to make the cockpit feel less closed in. I didn't take any photos of the flip up windows during the process of fitting but this is the end result:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208528&d=1682426527

Hope that helps!

Jeff

[ProfessorB]

Thanks to everybody for all the help. My first order of business is to make a "rigging" so that I the top can be handled by one person (I live alone). Some kind of setup with ceiling mounted pullets and some suitable soft hooks to hold the top. I may even store the top up at ceiling level, positioning the car under the rigging and slowly lowering the top onto the car. I'll need this before attempting this project. Right now, the top is stored (in a cover made for the top) in the verticle position on this really nice wheeled rack made expressly for the top. Being verticle it takes less room in the shop. Being on wheels, I can move it around. But I need two people to even get the top out of the rack. So I need some to make some kind of pulley system. That's why I haven't posted any pics. I do plan on getting some pics of the windows (i bought them later...car came with painted top but no hardware and no windows) and posting window pics on here...

[CraigS]

I built what you are thinking of w/ standard hardware store rope and pulleys. Used it for a couple of years and then moved. Brought it to the new house but never installed it. Turned out, especially after I made the rear window easily removable, that I almost never took the top off. Windows came in and out depending on the weather but I liked the shade the top offered

[ProfessorB]

I built what you are thinking of w/ standard hardware store rope and pulleys. Used it for a couple of years and then moved. Brought it to the new house but never installed it. Turned out, especially after I made the rear window easily removable, that I almost never took the top off. Windows came in and out depending on the weather but I liked the shade the top offered
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I'm hoping (if I do a good job on it) to share the results on here. Lots of people on here contribute so much, I'd like to contribute something

[ProfessorB]

Here's some pics of the top (in the dolly but without the cover on it) and one of the windows. I THINK this window is the passenger side (because the thumbhole for the vent window would be inboard ) but I don't know for sure. I have one like this and TWO for the other side. Is this for the passenger side? Also, there are two "levers", one at each end of the bottom of the window, that have rubber on them....and both of these rotate. I'm not quite sure what/how these function. I realize I'm asking a lot of "dumb" questions. Which is why I sought (and am still seeking) the literature. What I have is a nicely painted top (never mounted) and SOME parts with it. I've never seen an installed top in the flesh (I'm looking to find one at a Cobra gathering). And finally, the top came without windows and so I sourced some used ones elsewhere. They came with three rubber strips (one for each window?). These strips have a slight curve or "bow" in them. No clue on these...208806208806208807208809208810

[CraigS]

The first couple of pics are a passenger side window. That window has all the standard weatherstripping on it already. The strips may be extras. Here is my front latch. You can just see the top edge of the lever (red arrow) that has a piece of hose on it in your pics. It rotates from vertical so you can open and close the window to horizontal pointing forward so the end is against the inside of the windshield frame which holds the window closed.
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The rear one goes from vertical to horizontal toward the rear so it sits against the inside of the top. I suspect that the pieces of hose are to take up a little clearance and pull the window in tight. The hinge gets screwed to the top like this.
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I would recommend that you search for hinge replacements made from steel. The small pieces w/ the holes that you see in the above picture tend to crack off if your hand slips a little holding the window while installing or removing. The first several years I had my top I bought extra hinges from the seller. When I eventually went through my spares, I never could find replacements. I ended up w/ metal ones from McMaster which of course involved new holes in the fiberglass.

[ProfessorB]

The first couple of pics are a passenger side window. That window has all the standard weatherstripping on it already. The strips may be extras. Here is my front latch. You can just see the top edge of the lever (red arrow) that has a piece of hose on it in your pics. It rotates from vertical so you can open and close the window to horizontal pointing forward so the end is against the inside of the windshield frame which holds the window closed.
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The rear one goes from vertical to horizontal toward the rear so it sits against the inside of the top. I suspect that the pieces of hose are to take up a little clearance and pull the window in tight. The hinge gets screwed to the top like this.
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I would recommend that you search for hinge replacements made from steel. The small pieces w/ the holes that you see in the above picture tend to crack off if your hand slips a little holding the window while installing or removing. The first several years I had my top I bought extra hinges from the seller. When I eventually went through my spares, I never could find replacements. I ended up w/ metal ones from McMaster which of course involved new holes in the fiberglass.

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Thanks SO much for all the help. Also, I'm remembering now that I bought the windows from Badfish. He gave me a great deal, he did an AWESOME job packing everything so there would be no damage, shipped it quickly, and is a really good guy. (I think it was almost a year ago). At this point, I really don't have any questions to ask until I actually get the top out of "storage", make the pulley/rigging system, and start fitting things together. And, if I understand this properly, the top is "located" by matching it up with the rear line of the door opening? Is that correct?

[Jeff Kleiner]

The first couple of pics are a passenger side window.

I concur!

Jeff

[ProfessorB]

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I did have one more semi-intelligent thought. So, since the window is secured at the top with hinges, there must be a certain procedure to opening the door (the window has to swing up). Is there some kind of strut to hold the window in the up position when getting in and out of the car? Or...do I just hold it up by hand? And finally, I can see the need to remember to unlatch the bottom window latches before trying to open the door...

[CraigS]

W/ the hinges installed per my pic the window goes past vertical so it is leaning toward the center of the car. That way it stays up, absent wind of course. If you forget to open the window first you can open the door slightly. Ther rear of the door will slide out from under the window seal but the forward portion of the door rises toward the dash a bit. So the door will bind up under the window. No harm as it is hitting the seal.

[ProfessorB]

W/ the hinges installed per my pic the window goes past vertical so it is leaning toward the center of the car. That way it stays up, absent wind of course. If you forget to open the window first you can open the door slightly. Ther rear of the door will slide out from under the window seal but the forward portion of the door rises toward the dash a bit. So the door will bind up under the window. No harm as it is hitting the seal.

Thanks, Craig. Some of this (ex: the window going past vertical) will become more apparent once I start mocking it up but I need to make pulley lifting system first. Going back to "procedure", is there some kind of strut available to hold the window in the up position for entering and exiting? Or does everybody just hold the window up with one arm, making it even more fun getting into and out of the car? :)

[CraigS]

No strut needed. I had my APE top for >10years and the only time the window was a problem was when there was a bit of wind in the perfectly wrong direction.