Car won’t roll in neutral?

[Junbug]

So I’m just finishing my car and took it to the alignment shop today. Adjusted the ride height last weekend and was rolling around the garage in neutral with no problem. Drove the 15 miles to the alignment shop this morning (37 degrees). Once on the table, the car won’t roll in neutral. The parking brake is released, and the parking brake calipers are released. I can squeeze the parking brake lever arms on both sides. So they’re not locked tight. Brake pad is very firm. Car won’t roll in neutral. Can’t shove/move it with hand/leg pressure. Total of 20 miles on the car. I’m able to move the car under power so alignment is moving forward.
Could this be a problem with the MC’s? Are they sticky/starting to seize? I have the Wilwood brake upgrade from FFR. Kid delivered in Jan 2023. Could the brake pads just be wearing in and potentially expanded a bit once they cooled from the drive this morning?
Any advice or troubleshooting tips would be appreciated.
-Bryan

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sounds like it is not releasing hydraulicly, possibly because you have the balance bar adjustments off which is not letting the masters return fully or because the pedal is hitting the cross bar before they are released.

Jeff

[Junbug]

Thanks Jeff. I’ll check and adjust that tonight if needed.

[MB750]

I would recommend jacking the car up to see exactly which wheels won't turn.

Also, after you're done driving, see if the calipers are ripping hot. Depending on the engine's power, you could easily push thru dragging brakes.

[Junbug]

Great tips Matt. I’ll be putting the car up on stands tonight and check what won’t move but will definite check the temps of all the calipers when I get back after alignment.
Thanks!

[gbranham]

Did you figure out what's preventing it from rolling in neutral?

[kirby]

I had a similar issue and with the Wildwood master cylinders the rods need trimmed. I think it is 3/8" but don't quote me on that. The guy who started my build had mounted the master cylinders but not trimmed the rods. Hope this helps

[Junbug]

Jeff was right (no surprise there). The master cylinders weren’t releasing hydraulic pressure as the brake pedal was hitting the crossbar due to mal-adjusted master cylinder rods. Got worse once I left the alignment shop… long story follows involving front brakes locked up completely = losing steering, ending up stopped dead across railroad tracks, friendly folks, a tow rope, a truck, a cheese shop and a set of needle nose pliers. Couple that with a number of folks very interested in the car!
I was able to adjust the rods, get back home and learned a lesson or three. Need to re-adjust the balance bar but that shouldn’t be too challenging.
Only had 2 miles on the odometer before this trip so I never tripped this condition before. Need more shakedown drives!

[rich grsc]

One of the most basic things to check on a build

[gbranham]

One of the most basic things to check on a build

I'm sure Bryan really appreciates this insightful comment, as always. Very helpful, Rich.

[rich grsc]

Someone else reading this may see the need to check this. You always have s--t to say about me

[Junbug]

One of the most basic things to check on a build

Thanks for the tip Rich, and I’d already checked this basic thing earlier in the build. It changed when I’d bled the brakes a few times and didn’t appear to be touching the crossbar after each bleed, but I hope others find this thread if they have a similar problem.
Rich, it isn’t so much what you say, but how you say it. Though I appreciate your contributions.

[MB750]

Thanks for the tip Rich, and I’d already checked this basic thing earlier in the build. It changed when I’d bled the brakes a few times and didn’t appear to be touching the crossbar after each bleed, but I hope others find this thread if they have a similar problem.
Rich, it isn’t so much what you say, but how you say it. Though I appreciate your contributions.

I've put my butt in many ringers under exactly that context. Especially with my wife. Apparently, everything I text or email to her is read by her in my voice using a passive-aggressive tone.

Truth be told, only about 10% of it should be, but that's the impression I gave her.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Rich, it isn’t so much what you say, but how you say it. Though I appreciate your contributions.

I've know Rich for probably 15 years. He doesn't sugar coat his comments but I think his written words often come off more harsh than they would in person. In reality he's actually witty, knowledgeable and intelligent and a sweetheart of a guy who many times has come to the rescue of friends and fellow builders. He is the ONLY guy I have ever invited to come be a guest in our home and work with me to reassemble the car after I've painted it. Then again, maybe we just get along well because we're both curmudgeons :p

Jeff

[MaxVmo]

I for one appreciate all the comments on these forums—sometimes I personally need the unvarnished truth! That being said, I’m just short of the go cart phase and have bled my brakes and adjusted the bolts so as the brake pedal is off the cross bar.

One question I have is how do I know that my brakes are sufficiently bled? I have a good pressure in the pedal but is it a firm enough feel? How “hard” should my brake pedal feel?

Also, my front right brake cable will need adjusting so as it won’t rub the tire at full steering deflection. I assume I will have to replace the washer—any tips for this instance?

[MB750]

I for one appreciate all the comments on these forums—sometimes I personally need the unvarnished truth! That being said, I’m just short of the go cart phase and have bled my brakes and adjusted the bolts so as the brake pedal is off the cross bar.

One question I have is how do I know that my brakes are sufficiently bled? I have a good pressure in the pedal but is it a firm enough feel? How “hard” should my brake pedal feel?

Also, my front right brake cable will need adjusting so as it won’t rub the tire at full steering deflection. I assume I will have to replace the washer—any tips for this instance?

I've bled a lot of brake systems in my life and my best success comes from a typical brake bleeding process, then topping everything off, followed by someone holding down the brake while I crack every other joint and connection in the entire system. Just crack it and close it quickly, then tell your partner to re-pump the brakes and hold it down.

I've lost count how many times my brakes "feel" spongy even though they work fine only catch a small air bubble in the banjo connection at the MC. This process is messy, but it kills all the air in the whole system.

[rich grsc]

Thanks Jeff, my fellow curmudgeon. Here the thing, I'm not a talker, I don't spend 10 mins telling someone something that can be said in 2 min. It's the same on all the forums, I don't like typing long answers. So you get it short, sweet, and to the point. Too many people take that as rude. Sorry that is just who I am, don't know what to tell you. You get your feeling hurt, sorry, 98% of the time that was not the intention, but the other 2%, I'm actually holding back.

[RoadRacer]

Got worse once I left the alignment shop… long story follows involving front brakes locked up completely = losing steering, ending up stopped dead across railroad tracks, friendly folks, a tow rope, a truck, a cheese shop and a set of needle nose pliers.

Don't want to 'pile on' but I do want to point out another potential mistake here :D The part when you said "got worse once I left the alignment shop.." - I've learned to always listen to my car. I would not have left that shop without fixing the problem in their parking lot, or calling a tow truck. Things can escalate quickly, and it sounds like you were lucky not to suffer the consequences, esp stuck on a railroad track!!\

If something doesn't feel right, doesn't sound right or doesn't smell right.. STOP. I smelled something funny one day at 80mph and got out real quick to find my rear brake literally on fire. You know, under the fuel tank...

[Mike.Bray]

I'll say this about Rich. I was having an issue with my Borla stack EFI/Fast ECU on start up and know Rich has the same setup so I reached out to him to have a look at his start tables. He was very helpful and took the time to plug his laptop in and show me what his tables were which confirmed I didn't have an issue there. After some back and forth WE finally figured it out, the time delay in cranking was due to the ECU booting up. If I energize my ECU a few seconds before start the engine fires right up. Not sure I would have figured that out on my own.

Mike

[MB750]

Thanks Jeff, my fellow curmudgeon. Here the thing, I'm not a talker, I don't spend 10 mins telling someone something that can be said in 2 min. It's the same on all the forums, I don't like typing long answers. So you get it short, sweet, and to the point. Too many people take that as rude. Sorry that is just who I am, don't know what to tell you. You get your feeling hurt, sorry, 98% of the time that was not the intention, but the other 2%, I'm actually holding back.

Geez you're long-winded. Get to the point already! ;)

[rich grsc]

Geez you're long-winded. Get to the point already! ;)

OK!

The forum demands 3 letters or more. sorry for the run-on.

[Norm B]

Maybe it’s my upbringing, my mother is of Eastern European heritage, and they seem to communicate very directly with a small to nonexistent filter, or my work experience, previously as a weapons directing officer on a destroyer, and now as an airline pilot but, I prefer direct communication when applicable. Never had a problem with Rich’s posts.
Sorry for the long post��

Norm