Mk5 Complete Kit = $24,990

[fauxbra5.0]

Looks like the Mk5 complete kit will be $4,000 more than the Mk4. Pricing on FFR's website is currently live: https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-kit/mk5-roadster-complete-kit/

[JimStone]

Oh wow, that's a bit of a hike.

Especially if it doesn't qualify for the $2000 off end-of-year sale. So would really be $6k more for guys who want to wait for the MK5.

[Jacob McCrea]

Sounds like a reasonable price hike, all things considered. In many years FFR's prices were about the only price in America that didn't go up. I could never understand how they did it. Whoever at FFR figured out how to do that over the last decade should be teaching MBA classes at an ivy-league school.

[Blitzboy54]

I just built the same kit I ordered and ended up being about 8k more.

Honestly this makes me feel so much better lol. Can’t wait to see y’all’s MK5’s. I mean that sincerely.

[Jphoenix]

I paid $23,990 for the Coupe-R 9 months ago, so not that much more. In fact, seeing prices of everything else in the world continuing to increase significantly, $24.9 not so bad IMO. Especially if it comes with that hardtop - I really want that.

[rich grsc]

That does not include brakes or a rear suspension setup either. :eek: Be much closer to $35k plus engine and transmission. Guess I'll hang on to my Mk3. Hard top NOT included

[TXeverydayDad]

Sounds like a reasonable price hike, all things considered. In many years FFR's prices were about the only price in America that didn't go up. I could never understand how they did it. Whoever at FFR figured out how to do that over the last decade should be teaching MBA classes at an ivy-league school.

I believe the answer you’re looking for is “options”. Even with the base price staying the same over a long time, the options all increased in price. So the total steadily increased even though the starting base/complete kit price stayed the same.

[Mad Dog]

The order form that was on our site was a draft and it should not have been posted. I spoke to Dave Smith and he confirmed that pricing on the Mk5 is not finalized. He said it may indeed be $24,990, but the range based on the prototype estimates remains as of right now, between $22,490 and $24,990 and quite likely to stay in that range. He mentioned that several large costing factors remain such as variable molding costs for the expensive new composite molds and final cycle counts before mold repair and replacement along with the usage and costs of the new gel coats and carbon fiber parts decisions are not done. A host of other costs are still being calculated. There are some other features of the kit that will also be variable based on volume, and Dave said that he will likely have a full release of the specifics of the Mk5 as far as parts content, upgrades, prices and production start dates by year end (less than a month).

We sure appreciate the interest and will answer your questions definitively very soon. And the Mk4 will remain in production as there are substantial differences in designs far beyond price.

[J R Jones]

Loose lips sink ships?
Someone's butt may be in the hot seat. Maybe a reassignment to the welding line.
My OEM projects were always launched with cost targets that were part of development progress reviews.
Building the MKV cost model may have been based on the current coupe, not blue sky, like the PR truck.
New production processes should reduce time and cost but production equipment has to be accounted for in overhead.
jim

[mrmustang]

The order form that was on our site was a draft and it should not have been posted. I spoke to Dave Smith and he confirmed that pricing on the Mk5 is not finalized. He said it may indeed be $24,990, but the range based on the prototype estimates remains as of right now, between $22,490 and $24,990 and quite likely to stay in that range. He mentioned that several large costing factors remain such as variable molding costs for the expensive new composite molds and final cycle counts before mold repair and replacement along with the usage and costs of the new gel coats and carbon fiber parts decisions are not done. A host of other costs are still being calculated. These some other features of the kit that will also be variable based on volume, and Dave said that he will likely have a full release of the specifics of the Mk5 as far as parts content, upgrades, prices and production start dates by year end (less than a month).

We sure appreciate the interest and will answer your questions definitively very soon. And the Mk4 will remain in production as there are substantial differences in designs far beyond price.

And the 289 roadster (not FIA), but actual 289 roadster option :cool:

It's been a long, long time since "Da Bunnies"(tm) have had to invade Dave's office. Don't make me unleash them on him again. :eek:

Dave has my cell if he wants to speak live.

Bill S.

[Kbl7td]

That’s a steal.

Go check out RCR if you want to see mind blowing prices and subpar customer service.

[edwardb]

As a builder of Mk3 and Mk4's and my current driver a Gen 3 Coupe, I can attest to the significantly improved space frame design. I was as surprised as anyone to see the Mk5 Roadster, and apparently a not-so-secret development known by several. But I think it's a huge improvement and will just increase FF's hold on this part of the market. Has my build juices flowing... As for the price increase, shouldn't be a surprise given what we've seen on the inflation front for the last few years. I think FF has done a good job of holding the line. But my biggest takeaway from Mad Dog's post is apparently a portion (maybe a large portion?) of the increase will be associated with the body, mold repair, etc. I think that's excellent news. I've said to anyone who will listen that I believe buyers would pay for a higher quality body. One that significantly reduces the hours of body work. If the videos of the Mk5 body are indicative of the quality for the future, that price increase may get more than paid back with reduced body/paint cost. Time will tell but to me it's promising.

[rich grsc]

Paul I agree with almost all you say. A better body will make a lot of folks happy, but I don't see anyone saving $2000, or more on a paint job.

[Papa]

Paul I agree with almost all you say. A better body will make a lot of folks happy, but I don't see anyone saving $2000, or more on a paint job.

Rich,

That's because you likely haven't had the shock of pricing body & paint in other parts of the country! My quote for a reputable body and paint guy in the Denver area was over $13k. Shipping my car to Jeff Kleiner to do the work was way more cost effective. I have no idea what body & paint runs here in Missouri, but if I ever do decide to build another car, Jeff is much closer now and will get my business again.

Dave

[edwardb]

Paul I agree with almost all you say. A better body will make a lot of folks happy, but I don't see anyone saving $2000, or more on a paint job.


Rich,

That's because you likely haven't had the shock of pricing body & paint in other parts of the country! My quote for a reputable body and paint guy in the Denver area was over $13k. Shipping my car to Jeff Kleiner to do the work was way more cost effective. I have no idea what body & paint runs here in Missouri, but if I ever do decide to build another car, Jeff is much closer now and will get my business again.

Dave

Obviously I'm just spitballing here. But a better body, including addressing the asymmetry that drives OCD types like me crazy, has to translate into less labor hours and some amount of savings. Body and paint quotes are all over the map and here in SE Michigan are crazy. Which led me to the home paint job on my truck build. Obviously some ridiculous quotes because they just don't know what they're getting into or don't want the work. Some (like Jeff K) know these builds and that definitely makes a difference. I could show you the time slips for my Coupe paint job. There were a lot of hours before a single drop of product went into a paint gun. Granted a high end shop and did a concours level job. So maybe not the best example. But I'm positive a better body would have saved them (and me) a whole bunch of time and easily paid back a higher price for the body in the first place. Whatever the real story is we'll learn going forward. But bottom line I'm very happy to see FF addressing what is consistently acknowledged as one of their weakest aspects.

[Blitzboy54]

Rich,

That's because you likely haven't had the shock of pricing body & paint in other parts of the country! My quote for a reputable body and paint guy in the Denver area was over $13k. Shipping my car to Jeff Kleiner to do the work was way more cost effective. I have no idea what body & paint runs here in Missouri, but if I ever do decide to build another car, Jeff is much closer now and will get my business again.

Dave


I paid $14k in CT in 2022. I would guess that if I was going back to this person (I am not) it would be closer to $16k

[wareaglescott]

Excited to see this MK5 coming. I am very pleased with how my MK4 came out. However when I built in I was a complete novice to this hobby. I have learned so much sinse building my other cars I have often thought it would be cool to do another Cobra and see how much better I could make it. Could never justify building the same thing I already built again though. This looks to be enough difference. Very excited about it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

A better body will certainly reduce bodywork hours. If your painter charges by the hour (and charges honestly) obviously that will bring the cost down. If he's familiar with FFRs and charges a flat rate it may not have a huge impact. This is how I as well as some of the other FFR specialist do it. I charge no more for a #2 body than I do for a #9 body...I figure over the course of a few it all evens out. Don't forget that no matter how good the body is the time required for what happens after bodywork (all of the primers and sealer, seemingly endless blocking, paint, clear, cut & buff and reassembly) will not change. Those operations are 75% of the job. One big factor, and a major consideration behind the body improvements is not only for the benefit of the pros but also for the builders who wish to "do it all" and tackle the body & paint themselves.

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Rich,

That's because you likely haven't had the shock of pricing body & paint in other parts of the country! My quote for a reputable body and paint guy in the Denver area was over $13k. Shipping my car to Jeff Kleiner to do the work was way more cost effective. I have no idea what body & paint runs here in Missouri, but if I ever do decide to build another car, Jeff is much closer now and will get my business again.

Dave

Dave I know what you mean, I'm very aware of the costs of a new paint job. It's a big topic here at Gateway Cobra as we have a bunch of cars needing paint, including mine. Have a shop 25 miles from me, does great work, but he jumped his price from spring to fall by 40%, and he was already expensive, more than your bid. He lost at least 4 cars, that is why Jeff is so damn busy.

[rthomas98]

out of curiousity based on everything I am seeing is for a complete kit on the MK5. Does that mean Factory Five is abondoning the base kit? I know there have been talks of it in some of the videos based on donor vehicle availability and the complete kit way out sells it. Or is that something that is just yet to be announced.

[rich grsc]

Yet to be announced I believe.

[Norm B]

I hope for us Canadian customers they continue some form of base kit. Complete kits are forbidden from import.

Norm

[FFinisher]

Rich,

That's because you likely haven't had the shock of pricing body & paint in other parts of the country! My quote for a reputable body and paint guy in the Denver area was over $13k. Shipping my car to Jeff Kleiner to do the work was way more cost effective. I have no idea what body & paint runs here in Missouri, but if I ever do decide to build another car, Jeff is much closer now and will get my business again.

Dave

As I hear this talk about body work and paint, I can't help but wonder how the group relates to body shop pricing. I can't help but wonder what reference points are used. Most people don't get full cars painted, or full cars body reworked and shaped and prepped for, in most cases, show quality finish. It would not be uncommon to get a fender repairs, or a bumper cover replaced, or other repair work done. But full-on complete paint and body work is rare in a normal daily life. Sure, there are some people who have cars done frequently, I don't think they're the ones who have heartburn with the costs. For reference I have a Mustang, that I just wanted resprayed, I won't get into the details, but it's a re-spray, not a full-on restoration and the body shop said $20k to start. That is a steel body, no parting seams, no edge work, no fitting, just a respray and sand and buff. Basecoat clearcoat. Not three stages, not candy. pretty straight forward.

As Pricing has increased in all things in our world, Body shop costs have increased as well, labor, paint, fillers etc has all increased.

I get the heartburn, it an expensive component of the overall build. Not having the ability or skill to do this I think it is the area that requires the most skill and talent and shows the most in the end.

Factory Five really tries Hard to deliver a balance of value and quality. It's a fine line. I am sure they could provide paint ready body's, but the cost would be prohibitive in the volumes they produce and we would not be willing to pay for that level quality and would push some out of the market. I am sure That Factory Five will continue to provide exceptional value even if there is a price increase. (price increase, not price hike) The MKV is much more than a better body, it is a total remake of the Kit itself. Chassis, body, many of the components are changed, upgraded and refined.

I have the first MKV. it is impressive.

Pricing is yet to be established. But I am 100% certain, when comparing value, Factory Five will come out on top.

[Pizzman76]

out of curiousity based on everything I am seeing is for a complete kit on the MK5. Does that mean Factory Five is abondoning the base kit? I know there have been talks of it in some of the videos based on donor vehicle availability and the complete kit way out sells it. Or is that something that is just yet to be announced.

First off, hello from Flatrock, MI!

It would be a surprise if they stopped offering Base kits unless the take rate was super low. Base kits are the special sauce for enabling people to get into a kit without breaking the bank, and the bread and butter which launched the company. With that being said, I have to believe FFR is making much better margins on people ordering complete kits, so expanding the offerings for those people makes sense for the company as well as the builders.

[Papa]

As I hear this talk about body work and paint, I can't help but wonder how the group relates to body shop pricing. I can't help but wonder what reference points are used. Most people don't get full cars painted, or full cars body reworked and shaped and prepped for, in most cases, show quality finish. It would not be uncommon to get a fender repairs, or a bumper cover replaced, or other repair work done. But full-on complete paint and body work is rare in a normal daily life. Sure, there are some people who have cars done frequently, I don't think they're the ones who have heartburn with the costs. For reference I have a Mustang, that I just wanted resprayed, I won't get into the details, but it's a re-spray, not a full-on restoration and the body shop said $20k to start. That is a steel body, no parting seams, no edge work, no fitting, just a respray and sand and buff. Basecoat clearcoat. Not three stages, not candy. pretty straight forward.

As Pricing has increased in all things in our world, Body shop costs have increased as well, labor, paint, fillers etc has all increased.

I get the heartburn, it an expensive component of the overall build. Not having the ability or skill to do this I think it is the area that requires the most skill and talent and shows the most in the end.

Factory Five really tries Hard to deliver a balance of value and quality. It's a fine line. I am sure they could provide paint ready body's, but the cost would be prohibitive in the volumes they produce and we would not be willing to pay for that level quality and would push some out of the market. I am sure That Factory Five will continue to provide exceptional value even if there is a price increase. (price increase, not price hike) The MKV is much more than a better body, it is a total remake of the Kit itself. Chassis, body, many of the components are changed, upgraded and refined.

I have the first MKV. it is impressive.

Pricing is yet to be established. But I am 100% certain, when comparing value, Factory Five will come out on top.

I may have unique perspective compared to most of this community when it comes to paint and body work. My dad operated his own paint and body shop for many years and as a kid I spent a lot of time in his shop. Granted, that was a loooong time ago, so price-wise, has nothing to do with prices we see for materials today. I can commiserate with the time and finesse it takes to get a top-quality paint job, particularly on fiberglass or gelcoat. When I was old enough, I was put to work in the shop and besides doing the typical shop flunky work sweeping and cleaning, I did a lot of disassembly (bag and tag) to get cars ready for the body work. I also wore the fingerprints off my fingers sanding and recall making a comment that my dad still jabs me with all these years later. The comment went something like, "When I grow up, I want a job that I don't get dirty doing." So, I certainly have a feel for the effort it takes to do a complete body and paint job, which is a lot of work even on these small cars. When Jeff K did my car, I told him he didn't charge enough, and he simply stated that he thought it was enough. His support of this community in both build knowledge, giving of his time to answer questions, innovating techniques that many of us have used on our builds, and putting the color on our cars is remarkable.

Dave

[gbranham]

A better body will certainly reduce bodywork hours. If your painter charges by the hour (and charges honestly) obviously that will bring the cost down. If he's familiar with FFRs and charges a flat rate it may not have a huge impact. This is how I as well as some of the other FFR specialist do it. I charge no more for a #2 body than I do for a #9 body...I figure over the course of a few it all evens out. Don't forget that no matter how good the body is the time required for what happens after bodywork (all of the primers and sealer, seemingly endless blocking, paint, clear, cut & buff and reassembly) will not change. Those operations are 75% of the job. One big factor, and a major consideration behind the body improvements is not only for the benefit of the pros but also for the builders who wish to "do it all" and tackle the body & paint themselves.

Jeff

I did all the bodywork on my MkIII, and that is why I want you to do my MkIV. The level of detail at times...looking for pinholes to fill, endless sanding with guidecoat, etc, was just ridiculous. I don't care what it costs....I've seen your work, and whatever the final tally is, I'm good with it. Looking forward to it when it happens.

As others have said, I appreciate all you do for us, Jeff. I know you don't get paid well for all your hours spent at the keyboard, helping all of us goofballs.

Greg

[rich grsc]

Would you guys stop with bragging on Jeff, at least till he gets mine finished. :rolleyes: He's going to want to raise the price. :p:D
Of course I'm kidding, I tell him all the time he should spend more time doing fun stuff. Like coming to Missouri and cruising with GCC

[Higgybulin]

I hope for us Canadian customers they continue some form of base kit. Complete kits are forbidden from import.

Norm

That has been confirmed.

[dherrenbruck]

Rich,

That's because you likely haven't had the shock of pricing body & paint in other parts of the country! My quote for a reputable body and paint guy in the Denver area was over $13k. Shipping my car to Jeff Kleiner to do the work was way more cost effective. I have no idea what body & paint runs here in Missouri, but if I ever do decide to build another car, Jeff is much closer now and will get my business again.

Dave

Dave,
I agree with you. I order my MKIV Feb 23. Delivered Aug 23. Complete build (less body and paint) May 24. Fortunately I connected with Jeff (he’s just 90 miles from me) while trolling the Forum and what a guy. Not only did I find his pricing competitive, it was his quality of work, knowledge of the build and most importantly his willingness to be available to help. Invaluable. Now he’s helping me with color selection because like a dumbass I’m rethinking my first choice. David.

[rich grsc]

Dave, I know it's a bit of a drive, but you should try to make our kick off party. It would be a good time, and everyone can share their stories.

[BornWestUSA]

How will the proposed tariffs impact the pricing going forward?

[UpstateCobraGuy]

Ouch, guess I'll be keeping my old Mark III a bit longer...

[maclonchas]

Folks,

Please leave Jeff alone :cool: He is finishing up my car right now. 207649207650

Just kidding. He is the best.

Bill

[rich grsc]

Bill, nice :D. You don't see many done in green looks good. You're right, leave Jeff be, he has work to be done.:rolleyes:

[Jim Wehr]

Looks like the Mk5 complete kit will be $4,000 more than the Mk4. Pricing on FFR's website is currently live: https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-kit/mk5-roadster-complete-kit/

Makes my love my Mk II even more!

[CraigS]

There is one more group of FFR owners this will benefit. Those of us who drove for a year or three in gelcoat. Getting rid of those mold lines on top of the fenders will go a long way toward making a nicer car as is.

[Jeff Kleiner]

There is one more group of FFR owners this will benefit. Those of us who drove for a year or three in gelcoat. Getting rid of those mold lines on top of the fenders will go a long way toward making a nicer car as is.

Not sure where you get the idea that the parting lines are gone Craig. All of the same mold lines that are on the Mk4 are still on the Mk5.

Jeff

[Blitzboy54]

Not sure where you get the idea that the parting lines are gone Craig. All of the same mold lines that are on the Mk4 are still on the Mk5.

Jeff


Do the doors fit better?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Do the doors fit better?

All of the improvements and changes to the body that I discussed with Dave, Jim, Jesper and Nate were done. That included the doors.

Jeff

[fauxbra5.0]

All of the improvements and changes to the body that I discussed with Dave, Jim, Jesper and Nate were done. That included the doors.

Jeff

What are your thoughts about the changes to the hood scoop - ABS vs Carbon? Was the original scoop ABS as well, or was it Fiberglass?

[Jeff Kleiner]

What are your thoughts about the changes to the hood scoop - ABS vs Carbon? Was the original scoop ABS as well, or was it Fiberglass?

The Mk5 scoop is ABS, same as the Mk4. Very early Mk4 scoops were fiberglass. There has never been a CF scoop (aside from the ones that were integral with the hoods on the Carbon Fiber bodied Mk1s).

Jeff

[fauxbra5.0]

The Mk5 scoop is ABS, same as the Mk4. Very early Mk4 scoops were fiberglass. There has never been a CF scoop (aside from the ones that were integral with the hoods on the Carbon Fiber bodied Mk1s).

Jeff

great, thanks for that insight, Jeff. Was concerned with the ABS wearing, but if that’s what they’ve been using the past 15+ years, I guess that concern is nullified. Besides the “my hood scoop is carbon fiber”, what would be the advantage is upgrading?

[Pizzman76]

When you're talking about a hood scoop, it's purely aesthetic. CF gains its largest value when replacing similar components made of steel or aluminum. You gain the material value with a fraction of the weight

[zarnold]

Where did the link go?

https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-kit/mk5-roadster-complete-kit/

[Mad Dog]

We're working on putting together the info and site for the Mk5, and will have it posted soon. Stay tuned!

[zarnold]

We're working on putting together the info and site for the Mk5, and will have it posted soon. Stay tuned!

Thanks!

[mrmustang]

All of the improvements and changes to the body that I discussed with Dave, Jim, Jesper and Nate were done. That included the doors.

Jeff

Coming from the early days of white/blue (think they were Blue) bodies, I dream of a FFR body needing no seam work :D .

Then again I dream of a true 289 roadster FFR similar to CSX2173



Bill S.

[rich grsc]

I dream of a massive power ball win

[Dave Tabor]

I'm dreaming of new front spindles and forged lower control arms...

Dave
Gen III #17

[Jeff Kleiner]

I dream of a massive power ball win

You have a better chance of your dream coming true;)

Jeff