Engine Selection

[JRS Cobra 2025]

Newbie to the Cobra world, just ordered my Mk4 kit which is due to deliver in January. I am suddenly overwhelmed by the engine selection.
I want fuel injected reliability, not looking for crazy horsepower, fully respecting the light weight of this car.
I was originally thinking 5.0 coyote crate but there are so many choices out there. Also considering the Blueprint 302 as it has a more era-correct look. But 370 HP seems light compared to the Coyote crates at 480 HP.
The MK4 seems to be set up for Gen 1-3 Coyote. Is there a mounting difference for Gen 4? I ordered my kit with 5.0 mounts so I need to make a decision quick to get the correct mounts.
Experienced advise would be much appreciated.

[rthomas98]

I run a 302 coupled to a T5 and it dyno'd at blueprint for 255 hp. I promise you drivng the car it is plenty spicy. But if you have the means to go coyote (I did not) I would go coyote.

[TXeverydayDad]

There are no mounting differences between between the gen 3 and gen4x Coyote.

[john42]

I'm running a Ford Boss 347 (302 Stroker) 480tq/470hp. Very fun and checks all the boxes on the classic looks.

207126

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Have 10 years on my G1 Coyote. Engine is lightly modified starts every time is lightweight with very low maintenance expense. One clutch replaced. Original battery replaced at the 8 year mark. On the third set of tires. (100 tread ware) Brakes a number of times more due to experimental use AutoX/Street than necessity. With my normal driving patterns oil change once a year in the winter along with greasing all the Zerk fittings.

NOTE: along with the annual service its a good plan to check all your bolts to insure the are still tight. As I built & brought the bolts up to torque the were marked with a yellow bolt marker across the top down onto the surface they were attaching. Easy way to see it they came loose.

Other liquids & lubricants as recommended for the Mustang GT.

Number of unnecessary cosmetic & comfort changes. You can always find something to spend money on.

Unless anyone is looking for a period correct look I recommend the Coyote series.

[GoDadGo]

Stuff An LS-3 & TKX Tranny In That Bad Boy & All Will Be Right With The World!

https://paceperformance.com/LS3-525HP-Pace-Performance-Crate-Engine-with-Tremec-TKX-5-Speed-Transmission-Package-GMP-TK6LS525.html

Your Dark Side Friend From Louisiana!

https://youtu.be/iwslgKJUaKc

All kidding aside, just pick something that you feel comfortable taking care of.

[OB6]

Stuff An LS-3 & TKX Tranny In That Bad Boy & All Will Be Right With The World!

https://paceperformance.com/LS3-525HP-Pace-Performance-Crate-Engine-with-Tremec-TKX-5-Speed-Transmission-Package-GMP-TK6LS525.html

Your Dark Side Friend From Louisiana!

https://youtu.be/iwslgKJUaKc

All kidding aside, just pick something that you feel comfortable taking care of.

You beat me to it! Size of a SBF, power and reliability of a Coyote.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Stuff An LS-3 & TKX Tranny In That Bad Boy & All Will Be Right With The World!

https://paceperformance.com/LS3-525HP-Pace-Performance-Crate-Engine-with-Tremec-TKX-5-Speed-Transmission-Package-GMP-TK6LS525.html



Plus a couple grand for accessory drive and oil pan.

Jeff

[gbranham]

There's no wrong answer, really. What's your experience with high-horsepower cars? I've had several high horsepower cars, and when I built my MkIII with a warmed-over 302 (325hp), it was fun, but I quickly wanted more. I didn't have the budget to do more, so I drove it for awhile, then sold it. Years later and many high performance cars later, I'm back to build a MkIV, but with a much better budget. I was going to go Gen3 Coyote, but changed my mind, and now I'm going with a 427 SBF. Similar HP to WT ratio as my last hot rod (2017 Z06), but with a shorter wheelbase and no nannies. Should be a hoot.

Your engine budget will in large part dictate your choice, in addition to your wrenching prowess. If you're not afraid to build an engine, you can perhaps get more HP for less money than a new crate solution. If you don't want to bother with building and/or fiddling with EFI or carb setups, just buy a SBF crate or Coyote solution, drop it in and go.

Greg

[GoDadGo]

https://youtu.be/FWTUvuUpwGM

[Rebostar]

I went with a 351W with a Scat 418 stroker kit and a 4.060 overbore. The math says it displaces 425 and change. I installed Edelbrock 205cc built up heads and Comp .512 IN & EX lift camshaft. Comp Cam roller rockers. Weiand dual plane intake and Holley 750. Similar equiped engines dyno at 450+. Its a 1969 block with the shorter deck hieght increasing the compression ratio to 10.5. This one will not get dynoed. I kept it old school with the carb, vee belt pullies from CVR, pent roof style rocker covers, and FE expansion tank. To the untrained eye it looks like a 427FE big block. So it checks the box for "old school big block appearance" with the lighter wieght of the Windsor and more power than I'll ever use.

I have a thing about needing a computer to tinker with my engines. I can live with it on my 2018 Mustang GT with a Roush 750 HP Stage !! Supercharger in it. After I installed the Supercharger It really irked me when I had to trailer the car to a Ford dealer to plug it into a computer that would link to Roush so "they" could set it up. No More!

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[Mike.Bray]

I have a thing about needing a computer to tinker with my engines. I can live with it on my 2018 Mustang GT with a Roush 750 HP Stage !! Supercharger in it. After I installed the Supercharger It really irked me when I had to trailer the car to a Ford dealer to plug it into a computer that would link to Roush so "they" could set it up. No More!

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/34559423959684575766142651227595185626544093na.jpg

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/fbimg1718707686265.jpg

[Todd Baumann]

Several builds and different engine combos and I think by far the best overall is a Blueprint 347.
Great horsepower and torque with a 3yr 50K mile warranty.

[Rebostar]

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/34559423959684575766142651227595185626544093na.jpg

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/fbimg1718707686265.jpg

Thanks Mike.
I laughed so hard I almost pissed my pants!

[Fman]

I went Dart block 427 stroker, Pro Flo 4 EFI, 500+hp/torque, it is fun to drop the hammer and very drivable around town. I prefer the sound and feel of a pushrod engine. No regrets at this point after 7k miles of driving the car. I also did power steering which I like having (Jones Racing). Best bang for your buck is probably a carb'd 302/347. Coyote is rock solid and also a great engine. All personal preference, good luck with your decision.

[Pizzman76]

Newbie to the Cobra world, just ordered my Mk4 kit which is due to deliver in January. I am suddenly overwhelmed by the engine selection.
I want fuel injected reliability, not looking for crazy horsepower, fully respecting the light weight of this car.
I was originally thinking 5.0 coyote crate but there are so many choices out there. Also considering the Blueprint 302 as it has a more era-correct look. But 370 HP seems light compared to the Coyote crates at 480 HP.
The MK4 seems to be set up for Gen 1-3 Coyote. Is there a mounting difference for Gen 4? I ordered my kit with 5.0 mounts so I need to make a decision quick to get the correct mounts.
Experienced advise would be much appreciated.

As you can see, this group is clearly diverse in the age-old question of what powertrain to use. I don't think you can go wrong no matter what you decide to go with, and honestly, most will tell you that this car doesn't need BIG power to be a fun vehicle. I think you need to figure out what is important to you; do you want a period-correct replica with a carburated pushrod or a modern twist with an overhead cam V8? Fortunately these days you can opt for the convenience of EFI no matter what direction you end up with.

Once I decided what I wanted this vehicle to be, it was an easy choice to run with the Coyote. I'm also fortunate enough to own a C3 Corvette with a SBC to get my fix with swearing at a carb once a year. :D

[narly1]

On the subject of what's important to the builder maybe you're a masochist like me and just want to be able to say that you built your own motor, LOL.

Earl

[Mike.Bray]

Thanks Mike.
I laughed so hard I almost pissed my pants!

Always happy to help!

You know, with the Pro Flow 4 you don't need a computer. You can tune it with your phone through Bluetooth. Maybe that would work for you:)

[Guardm16]

SBF 427 stroker for me. I wanted the easy start and drivability of an EFI, so I added the Holley Sniper 2 Fuel Injection, Hyperspark Ignition and Distributor. It is all "Plug and Play". The engine fired on the first hit and is running great.

[MaxVmo]

I was shopping engines and ended up choosing a Blueprint 347. Their build time took a while but their customer service has been impeccable. I looked at the 306 pretty hard and decided the step up to 347 was a better option for the big picture and didn’t break my budget too hard. Dyno sheet shows 425 HP, which for me is plenty. I also chose EFI, and a five speed transmission. I’m not a race driver (or real mechanic) and felt that it’s money well spent (plus the warranty added some good feelings). I will have the first start in the next month or so and I am very excited.

[JMD]

As you can see everyone has their own criteria. I think it's important to first know what you want the car to be and do. Personally, the cars I've enjoyed the most are lightweight (under 3k lbs) and have between 300-400hp. I've had a 600hp+ '69 Camaro and it was a lot of fun, but you never really could use all that power. The most fun car I ever owned was a 1993 Mazda RX-7 modded to ~330hp. It had the best combination of looks, power, and handling of any car I've ever driven. The only downside was the complexity of the engine. I chose the ~370hp 302 sbf because I wanted 1) simplicity 2) old school looks 3) a small, lightweight engine, and 4) the power to weight that this amount of hp provided.

Personally I prefer driving a 'slower' car 10/10ths instead of always having to modulate or never fully able to use big power. My happy place is a ~12 sec 1/4 mile and ~4.0 sec 0-60. Fast enough to be fun and can still get you in trouble, but not a car that is eager to kill you if you make a mistake. To me this makes the car more fun to drive overall.

I may want more later on (don't we all eventually?), but I don't think I'm ever going to do anything about it. I think the 347 is probably the best engine for most people...or the Coyote if you want something modern. But the hopped up 302 is perfect for me.

[Blitzboy54]

Started with a 306 SBF at about 360hp and have moved on to the Gen 2 Coyote with few upgrades that should net me about 450hp. I didn't want a snotty pushrod V8 this time. I have seen people do just the opposite. There really isn't a wrong answer.

[John Ibele]

Here are some hopefully helpful things to think about:

I'm sure you've already read that your biggest safety tool is what's between your ears, along with its connection to your right foot. So I wouldn't worry too much about 375 being 'too light' or 480 being too much to handle. You can do dumb things or stay safe with each.

There is a reason the Coyote has become so popular. Variable valve timing in a modern engine gives you great manners when you want to drive it like your daily driver, and without the things that go along with driving a 'snotty pushrod V8', as Blitzboy put it. But when you get your foot into it, everything you thought should be under the hood of a Cobra is there on demand. You wanted the reliability of fuel injection, and you'll have good reliability all the way around with that engine.

If you go pushrod V8, there are indeed a lot more options to think about. I would think much more about drivability and what you want to get out of the car than about horsepower. You can get more than 370 hp out of a boss 302 aftermarket block if you stroke it, and it can be both reliable and driveable. I have something like 420 fwhp in Dart block stroked to 347, but it's skewed more toward low end manners than high end power. My mild cam that will pull at 1600 rpm without complaining, and I don't have to piss the neighbors off when I don't want to. Georgie's touring pipes are a good part of that last statement.

You can get 'fuel injected reliability' as well, but again, have to sort through the options. I went the budget route with a Sniper, as many have done. While it's worked well for me, I wouldn't call it the fast, easy path to your objective. Regardless of fuel injection package, unless you get it dailed in as part of a crate engine, plan on either doing a deep dive into EFI tuning or paying for a tune.

My sense is you'll stay on the Coyote path, but you're having trouble parting with notion of having 'old school' under the hood. This is a natural part of the build process, saying goodbye to all the 'other cars' we could have chosen, and committing to the one car we'll end up having in the garage. Eventually we all get tired of hemming and hawing over options and pick one. If you pick the Coyote, I can't imagine you being disappointed with the sound, manners, power or reliability. As for what shows when you lift up the hood, I think they can look great. There's a lot of different kinds of great out there - one of the reasons I love the choices that FFR left to all of us builders.

Good luck and happy building. You've got a great adventure ahead of you.

[kevin j sullivan]

Newbie to the Cobra world, just ordered my Mk4 kit which is due to deliver in January. I am suddenly overwhelmed by the engine selection.
I want fuel injected reliability, not looking for crazy horsepower, fully respecting the light weight of this car.
I was originally thinking 5.0 coyote crate but there are so many choices out there. Also considering the Blueprint 302 as it has a more era-correct look. But 370 HP seems light compared to the Coyote crates at 480 HP.
The MK4 seems to be set up for Gen 1-3 Coyote. Is there a mounting difference for Gen 4? I ordered my kit with 5.0 mounts so I need to make a decision quick to get the correct mounts.
Experienced advise would be much appreciated.

If you want power, go with the Coyote. Factory crate, easy to modify and bullet proof.

[bobl]

Something to keep in mind. Most aftermarket engines are dyno'd with dyno headers, no mufflers or accessories, whereas OEM engines are measured with stock exhaust, mufflers and all accessories. Additionally OEM uses SAE-Net correction factor and most aftermarkets use a STD correction factor, which shows a higher HP number. So they are not comparing apples to apples. The OEM engines would produce 20-30 more HP if measured the same way as aftermarket. Not a big deal, buy something to be aware of when comparing.

[Mike.Bray]

If you want power, go with the Coyote.

If you want real power go with a 427W.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Something to keep in mind. Most aftermarket engines are dyno'd with dyno headers, no mufflers or accessories, whereas OEM engines are measured with stock exhaust, mufflers and all accessories. Additionally OEM uses SAE-Net correction factor and most aftermarkets use a STD correction factor, which shows a higher HP number. So they are not comparing apples to apples. The OEM engines would produce 20-30 more HP if measured the same way as aftermarket. Not a big deal, buy something to be aware of when comparing.

Also a change in Dyno brand can increase or decrease the rating.

[TBull]

I really like my setup. It's a little different from most. A 347 big bore with 195 AFR Comp heads, cam sync, Fuel injection and coil near plug. You have the faster regs of a.331 with more torque than a standard 347. The valves are.unshrouded for better air flow and if you still want more power, throw a supercharger on it when you are ready. It's a wild ride.

[lewma]

I did a Coyote 5.0 in my MK4 build and a Blueprint LS427 in my Coupe build. Coyote was easier to integrate with the build, FFR had everything I need. Turn the key and drive ( with a minor tune from Lund ). Blueprint is a totally different story. Harder to integrate with the build and I'm still tuning the engine. Blueprint support is great but from what I've seen, more involved than the turnkey Coyote engine.

[Avalanche325]

You beat me to it! Size of a SBF, power and reliability of a Coyote.

And resale value of a Pinto.

LOL

[OB6]

And resale value of a Pinto.

LOL

I'm not so sure about that anymore. These things are becoming less and less "Cobras", and more of a modern day hot rod. Granted not a Roadster, but this LS3 Coupe fetched good money:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-factory-five-racing-daytona-coupe-replica-5/

And I'll say it again, the LS has more in common with the original power plant than the Coyote ever will.

[Mike.Bray]

And resale value of a Pinto.

LOL

If you want to go down that road then your only options are a 289 SBF or a 427 FE.

Edit, you could also do a 260, forgot about those early ones.

[Rebostar]

They are all great engines with a long history of making good power with plenty of aftermarket parts. I think the question boils down to what you ulimately want your Cobra to be. All of us make our own versions of these cars. Some are purests who want it as close to the origonal Cobras as their budget will allow. I think the going price for a 427 FE fully rebuilt is somewhere north of 25K. (ask me how I know). A Windsor based 427 can be built for around 10K, bought for close to 15K. All the 1965 cars were all built with Ford engines so most want to stick with Ford. There are gazillions of Chevy motors out there for small money if cost is a primary issue. Personaly I'm a Ford guy as I've been burned badly with GM products. So for me any GM engine is off the table. Thats just my personal prefrence, as is the case with everyone in all the above posts. You wont go wrong with a 302 or 351 based stroker. They can be built to come close to the power of the Coyote which brings modern reliability but lacks the nastalga of the origonal pushrod engines. Budget and skill level (can you build your own engine?) will be the deternining factors.
What ever you chose. First Rule: HAVE FUN!!!This is a "hobby".
Happy trails!

[rich grsc]

I'm not so sure about that anymore. These things are becoming less and less "Cobras", and more of a modern day hot rod. Granted not a Roadster, but this LS3 Coupe fetched good money:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-factory-five-racing-daytona-coupe-replica-5/

And I'll say it again, the LS has more in common with the original power plant than the Coyote ever will.


If you want to go down that road then your only options are a 289 SBF or a 427 FE.

Edit, you could also do a 260, forgot about those early ones.

God forbid anyone makes a joke. :eek:

[Justin]

Engine choice is tough for most.

I like the look of the older engines. It is an old car. Power can be made with anything.

There is a price for power. So consider that.

I remember working for a Custom Hot Rod shop back in 2002. A guy brought in an FFR and wanted more power. It had a 5.0HO in it. We simply put an e-cam, Edelbrock heads, intake, TB and MAF. The car went from 210 at the tires to 320 at the tires. The guy was over the moon happy. I think the bill was like $3,000. It was actually a VERY fun test ride. The car wasn't crazy but scooted to 100mph quite quickly.

I have decided to drop some 401k and go 427w. 10.5:1 with some ok heads and it should make 550hp pretty easily. The end goal will be to make 500 at the tire. I think the air cleaner and exhaust will be the limiting factor if I had to guess.

In the end it just comes down to what YOU want from the car. Good luck!

[OB6]

God forbid anyone makes a joke. :eek:

Touche 😀

[rich grsc]

Been guilt of the same. Humor doesn't always read as that, emoji's help a lot.

[TBull]

I always said there should be a font for sarcasm. Maybe a backward Italics.

[Railroad]

Test

[JMD]

Test

I'm offended already.

[rich grsc]

Agreed, thats just a bit tooooo far. :rolleyes:

[Jimmy B]

Plus a couple grand for accessory drive and oil pan.

Jeff

My LS Corvette oil pan was $144 with free shipping and my ICT accessory drive was $252 on Amazon.

[Nickjj]

I also think you need to decide what look you want in the engine bay. I went with a SBF 347 stroker with cobra tin and a Holley Sniper 2 complete EFI system. Being in Canada had the crate engine built by Canadian Crate Engines in Burnaby BC and it was dynoed to 429HP which should plenty enough umph to get the roadster going. A pic of the engine and the basic components of the Holley Sniper 2 setup minus the Holley Hyperspark Distributer which is mounted in the engine already. I will be able to tune my engine from the Holley touch display provided or the Bluetooth app on my iphone. I'm an IT guy and love the tech of this setup. You have many options.

Nick

207505 207504

[Mike.Bray]

I also think you need to decide what look you want in the engine bay. I went with a SBF 347 stroker with cobra tin and a Holley Sniper 2 complete EFI system. Being in Canada had the crate engine built by Canadian Crate Engines in Burnaby BC and it was dynoed to 429HP which should plenty enough umph to get the roadster going. A pic of the engine and the basic components of the Holley Sniper 2 setup minus the Holley Hyperspark Distributer which is mounted in the engine already. I will be able to tune my engine from the Holley touch display provided or the Bluetooth app on my iphone. I'm an IT guy and love the tech of this setup. You have many options.

Nick

207505 207504

That's a nice looking engine!

[Nickjj]

Thanks Mike, This small block gives me lots of room in the engine bay for mounting things like the fuel regulator and all the Holley Sniper components. Something else to consider when choosing an engine for the OP to consider.


Nick

[Mike.Bray]

This small block gives me lots of room in the engine bay

Very true. I've got a 351W based engine that I just reinstalled. The other day I installed the headers and it's a little tight on the DS, at least for this old man. When I look at a Coyote and how tight it is I just cannot imagine getting to things like header bolts. Obviously it can be done but it's probably above my skill level.

[Ted G]

I went with a 427w and I wanted a carb. Starts every single time and I enjoy the tinkering with the carburetor and making my Frankenstein modifications to it. I'm about 520hp and honestly, it's a little dangerous. I've only let two people drive it and they both scared the $hit out of me. I prefer the SBF look but the Coyote is a great option too.

207516
207514
207515

[rich grsc]

Very true. I've got a 351W based engine that I just reinstalled. The other day I installed the headers and it's a little tight on the DS, at least for this old man. When I look at a Coyote and how tight it is I just cannot imagine getting to things like header bolts. Obviously it can be done but it's probably above my skill level.
Sure thing Mike. :rolleyes:

[Mike.Bray]

[QUOTE=Ted G;569917]I went with a 427w and I wanted a carb. Starts every single time and I enjoy the tinkering with the carburetor and making my Frankenstein modifications to it. [QUOTE]

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/458267311511184114829469823322515637707691n.jpg

[rich grsc]

My last carb I tuned with a 5# ball peen hammer. Then I got this. :rolleyes:;)

207535

Guess I'm starting over at the bottom

[Mike.Bray]

My last carb I tuned with a 5# ball peen hammer. Then I got this. :rolleyes:;)

207535

Guess I'm starting over at the bottom

How carb guys see EFI

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/efiwiring_2.jpg

[rich grsc]

Never going to run Mike, you're missing the gray wire with blue stripe.

[Blitzboy54]

My last carb I tuned with a 5# ball peen hammer. Then I got this. :rolleyes:;)

207535

Guess I'm starting over at the bottom

Is your steering wheel in the center of the car or is that an optical illusion?

[John Ibele]

Is your steering wheel in the center of the car or is that an optical illusion?

I mean, Rich is a big personality but that’s a lot of work to make sure there’s no room for passengers :)
Reflection of the roll bar?

Meanwhile the OP is long gone … just figured he’d light the “which of your engines is the best one” match, toss it on the fire and walk away…

[Blitzboy54]

Meanwhile the OP is long gone … just figured he’d light the “which of your engines is the best one” match, toss it on the fire and walk away…

I hope so, because that would be a boss move.

[rich grsc]

Clowns the left of me, jokers to the right, here I'm, stuck in the middle with you..

[Nickjj]

Very true. I've got a 351W based engine that I just reinstalled. The other day I installed the headers and it's a little tight on the DS, at least for this old man. When I look at a Coyote and how tight it is I just cannot imagine getting to things like header bolts. Obviously it can be done but it's probably above my skill level.

This is the kind of space I have to get to the header bolts on the driver side with my 347 Stroker SBF. Easy peezy access on both sides.
207564

[Avalanche325]

If you want to go down that road then your only options are a 289 SBF or a 427 FE.

Edit, you could also do a 260, forgot about those early ones.

Most of them have 428s.

[Avalanche325]

God forbid anyone makes a joke. :eek:

Yeah. So touchy around here lately.
Pssst., Don't mention "race car parts".

[42Bfast]

How carb guys see EFI

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/efiwiring_2.jpg

That’s not a EFI, it’s obviously a Coyote. I’m still trying to figure out how you got a picture of my engine bay. ��*��

I may need Rich and his hammer to come help, even though it’s not a carburetor. ��

[rich grsc]

I can bring a crowbar down in March.. I'll be at Sebring :rolleyes:

[kabacj]

For those of you who have been around these cars for a while. I am looking to build a 427 for my mk5.

My priorities
Ease of use . My wife needs to be able to use the car like any other oem car. (Thats how I got the seal of approval). ;)

It needs to sound right.

I know a weird requirement.

I consider the sound of the car in the same way you think about the sound of a Harley. The sound of a Harley is a significant part of what is.

So a bored out 351 will have a square bore / stroke and some displacement. I think that will help the sound

The other thing is the cam. For some reason they don’t sell cams by how they sound.

Sure I can just get a cam with crazy overlap and it will barely idle but sound like a nasty dragster. That will make my wife mad if it does not start and run easily . I will get in trouble for misleading her again on a car project.


It’s going to be EFI bc it’s gotta be an appliance.


Any suggestions about how I should go about this. How does the Ford Performance boss 427 sound with the factory five headers and exhaust?

https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/67bce431-887c-4b2d-8fbc-a48a75fc3f57.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/67bce431-887c-4b2d-8fbc-a48a75fc3f57.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

How about the blueprint 427 setup ? Does the high power setup sound different than the moderate power 427 they offer?

Before anyone mentions it, Unfortunately individual throttle bodies are out. I have them on my GTM and they just dont work especially well without lots of care and feeding for a car my wife can drive… they do sound incredible though.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/08d9d4ff-30eb-425b-be59-bf576aa613fa.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/08d9d4ff-30eb-425b-be59-bf576aa613fa.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

[Mike.Bray]

I am looking to build a 427 for my mk5.

My priorities
Ease of use . My wife needs to be able to use the car like any other oem car.

A torque monster 427 engine with a manual transmission in a 2400 lb car is never going to drive drive nice and easy like an OEM car IMO You'll have better luck with a 347

[gbranham]

I'm all for a Boss 427...that's what is in my MkIV. But as Mike said, that's a lot of engine for a 2400# car if you want something close to OEM driving characteristics. Regardless of which engine you put in it, an FFR is never going to give the same driving experience as an OEM vehicle, though. Loud, windy, gotta watch the pipes getting in and out, gotta strap in the harness, etc.

[kabacj]

A torque monster 427 engine with a manual transmission in a 2400 lb car is never going to drive drive nice and easy like an OEM car IMO You'll have better luck with a 347


haha you are right Mike. I should have qualified my statement. It needs to start up and idle reliably like an OEM car does.

I also don't want the surge at low rpm you often get when you have a hot cam.

OEM start and OEM throttle response from 1500 to 3500 rpm are my goals.

[kabacj]

I'm all for a Boss 427...that's what is in my MkIV. But as Mike said, that's a lot of engine for a 2400# car if you want something close to OEM driving characteristics. Regardless of which engine you put in it, an FFR is never going to give the same driving experience as an OEM vehicle, though. Loud, windy, gotta watch the pipes getting in and out, gotta strap in the harness, etc.

she wants to drive a cool car too so all that extra non oem stuff comes with the territory. As long as the car behaves when you treat it right I think she will be happy with it.

does your boss 427 have any bad habits? you know the kind of thing you warn people about before they drive it?

[gbranham]

she wants to drive a cool car too so all that extra non oem stuff comes with the territory. As long as the car behaves when you treat it right I think she will be happy with it.

does your boss 427 have any bad habits? you know the kind of thing you warn people about before they drive it?

I'm not on the road yet, so I can't tell you about bad habits. Many others here have build 427s with EFI, and they don't seem to have bad habits. It's just a ton of engine for such a light car. Gotta be very judicious with the loud pedal.

Greg

[kabacj]

I'm not on the road yet, so I can't tell you about bad habits. Many others here have build 427s with EFI, and they don't seem to have bad habits. It's just a ton of engine for such a light car. Gotta be very judicious with the loud pedal.


Greg

Thanks Greg.

Very helpful.

She will be careful. The carelessness is my department haha.

[Nigel Allen]

Sounds like a job for a Coyote.

[edwardb]

Sounds like a job for a Coyote.

X2. I was going to say the same thing. At the risk of overstaying my Coyote support... After having a couple SBF's, one mild the other (347) not as much, I've found the OE manners of the Coyote builds to make the cars easier to drive. Especially if you don't want to be as aggressive. The Coyote can be as mild or wild as you want and doesn't care either way.

[Brandonk603]

After all of the posts im sure this leaves you no closer to a decision!:rolleyes: HA!
Theres a great video of Dave and crew at Factory Five taking engines and their choices. It may not be any more clear after watching but you can hear them run, hear more opinions, and get more excited. I dont think theres a wrong answer and theres always the option to swap it out a few years later with something entirely different.
Good luck!

[gbranham]

Sounds like a job for a Coyote.

Good call! Agreed.

[Mike.Bray]

Sounds like a job for a Coyote.

Except a Coyote purrs like a kitten......

[Jeff Kleiner]

I think you guys with the Coyote recommendations missed the part where Johnny said:



...It needs to sound right.

I know a weird requirement.

I consider the sound of the car in the same way you think about the sound of a Harley. The sound of a Harley is a significant part of what is..



As good as the Coyote is the sound is not really one of it's strong suits in regards to a Cobra. And don't tell me about the silly "Ghost Tune" :rolleyes:



Jeff

[OB6]

Except a Coyote purrs like a kitten......

But an LS doesn't ;)

[kabacj]

After all of the posts im sure this leaves you no closer to a decision!:rolleyes: HA!
Theres a great video of Dave and crew at Factory Five taking engines and their choices. It may not be any more clear after watching but you can hear them run, hear more opinions, and get more excited. I dont think theres a wrong answer and theres always the option to swap it out a few years later with something entirely different.
Good luck!


Hey Brandon,

yes this video was very helpful.


https://www.youtube.com/live/fpjwKZEgzj8?si=A47eNjckU6fbp4VZ&t=1648

as tony says. if you want sound .. there's your ten. haha

[kabacj]

But an LS doesn't ;)


Except a Coyote purrs like a kitten......


X2. I was going to say the same thing. At the risk of overstaying my Coyote support... After having a couple SBF's, one mild the other (347) not as much, I've found the OE manners of the Coyote builds to make the cars easier to drive. Especially if you don't want to be as aggressive. The Coyote can be as mild or wild as you want and doesn't care either way.

everyone supporting the coyote, its really hard to beat the combination of power, efficiency and good manners. At first I wanted an aluminator, but i realized that motor is also great, but not the vibe im going for.

The LS3 also a great motor that can be built to many specifications. My mast motorsports ls3 black label is an unbelievable power plant. I love it.

its a bit weird that I don't want all the refinement that comes along with a modern motor for this car. That's the beauty of these cars. change the heart of the beast and you completely change its character



I think you guys with the Coyote recommendations missed the part where Johnny said:



As good as the Coyote is the sound is not really one of it's strong suits in regards to a Cobra. And don't tell me about the silly "Ghost Tune" :rolleyes:



Jeff

its all about the sound !

[dalves]

How would you compare the manners of a 347 with EFI to a coyote? Curious if the lack of manners is mostly due to carb.

[danmas]

everyone supporting the coyote, its really hard to beat the combination of power, efficiency and good manners. At first I wanted an aluminator, but i realized that motor is also great, but not the vibe im going for.

The LS3 also a great motor that can be built to many specifications. My mast motorsports ls3 black label is an unbelievable power plant. I love it.

its a bit weird that I don't want all the refinement that comes along with a modern motor for this car. That's the beauty of these cars. change the heart of the beast and you completely change its character




its all about the sound !

Yes. Yes it is.


https://youtube.com/shorts/6lN38GWJMmo?feature=share

[Mike.Bray]

How would you compare the manners of a 347 with EFI to a coyote? Curious if the lack of manners is mostly due to carb.

I was actually thinking of a 347. Put a Pro Flow 4 on it and you have a very well behaved engine with plenty of torque for these cars but not so much to try and kill you at every stop light. 11:1 compression and the right cam with the FFR exhaust and it's got the sound.

[johnnybgoode]

For those of you who have been around these cars for a while. I am looking to build a 427 for my mk5.

My priorities
Ease of use . My wife needs to be able to use the car like any other oem car. (Thats how I got the seal of approval). ;)

It needs to sound right.

I know a weird requirement.

I consider the sound of the car in the same way you think about the sound of a Harley. The sound of a Harley is a significant part of what is.

So a bored out 351 will have a square bore / stroke and some displacement. I think that will help the sound

The other thing is the cam. For some reason they don’t sell cams by how they sound.

Sure I can just get a cam with crazy overlap and it will barely idle but sound like a nasty dragster. That will make my wife mad if it does not start and run easily . I will get in trouble for misleading her again on a car project.


It’s going to be EFI bc it’s gotta be an appliance.


Any suggestions about how I should go about this. How does the Ford Performance boss 427 sound with the factory five headers and exhaust?

https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/67bce431-887c-4b2d-8fbc-a48a75fc3f57.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/67bce431-887c-4b2d-8fbc-a48a75fc3f57.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

How about the blueprint 427 setup ? Does the high power setup sound different than the moderate power 427 they offer?

Before anyone mentions it, Unfortunately individual throttle bodies are out. I have them on my GTM and they just dont work especially well without lots of care and feeding for a car my wife can drive… they do sound incredible though.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/08d9d4ff-30eb-425b-be59-bf576aa613fa.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/08d9d4ff-30eb-425b-be59-bf576aa613fa.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

I agree with you totally. These cars need to sound right which requires a carb and a hot "ish" cam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjKvqln2PqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9mGIghTpes

[42Bfast]

I can bring a crowbar down in March.. I'll be at Sebring :rolleyes:

Ha!Ha! Would love the visit, although I’m still a good 6 or 7 hours from Sebring unless your route brings you close.

[rich grsc]

Yes, I know. I'll be flying in, so I guess not this time.

[Nickjj]

The video done by FFR on Engine selection is one of the main reason I chose the 347 SBF with a Holley sniper 2 EFI setup. This is my first experience with a light car like the roadster with the potential for a lot of HP and wanted the reliability of EFI and being realistic with my driving ability. I have an 01 mint DHG Mustang Bullitt that I drive currently which is only 275Hp and a 1,000lbs heavier than the roadster but it sounds awesome and is a lot of fun to drive. Everyone should have their own reasons and be realistic for their choices when building their own roadster.

[Mike.Bray]

As a lot of you have seen in my build thread I recently redid my engine with a new Dart block to cure a problem with the old block. While I was at it I upgraded the cylinder heads to these (https://promaxxperformance.com/product/project-x-sbf-210/). The new heads flow better than the old ones, have bigger valves, and smaller chambers that brought the CR up to 10.5:1. Yesterday we got a break in the weather so took it out for a short drive and started to do some tuning. All I can say is wow! This engine really woke up and TBH is a bit scary now. Strong torque steer with each shift without really pressing the throttle. My computer simulation says over 500 HP and I believe it.

Anything close or over 500 HP in one of these cars is just going to be downright scary to most people. The OP will be best to stick with something like a 347 IMO.

[TBull]

I was actually thinking of a 347. Put a Pro Flow 4 on it and you have a very well behaved engine with plenty of torque for these cars but not so much to try and kill you at every stop light. 11:1 compression and the right cam with the FFR exhaust and it's got the sound.

Or go with a slight blend of old and new with a EFI Supercharged 347. You can start at low boost and easily add more boost as you become more accustomed to the car and it's manners. You could even have multiple tunes with a Holley HP or Dominator ECU. Just saying that there are options and always a way forward.

[k-roy]

I love my Gen 3 coyote with a TKX. I hopeful that this summer I can drive my brother's with a blueprint 347/tko600. Maybe I can give a different comparison then.

Yes sound is the drawback to the coyote.

But no one has spoken about Redlines. I love the coyotes 7500 redline. I didn't realize how much fun I have with higher redlines.

[Jim1855]

About 15 years ago I had the chance to drive my and another gentleman's Superformance cars. Both had TKO 600 transmissions. My car had my current 427 with a carb, his a Roush 427 with stacked EFI. Headers and sidepipes were different, mine were custom 1-7/8" tubes, his were the 1-7/8" SPF factory headers. I had custom sidepipes (will be used on the current car) his were the factory versions.

We drove each other's cars. Both ran well and we each liked the other's car. But there were recognized and obvious but not obnoxious differences. Sound, mine is raspier, kinda a snarly sound, his factory pipes were more mellow and a bit quieter, not sure if this was due to the intake differences, more likely the pipe construction. The EFI system was very well behaved, organized and controlled, it was very responsive. My carb'd motor required a bit more finesse and throttle control, perhaps not quite as responsive but any differences were slight. My carb'd motor came on harder. We both noticed the differences and talked about it while driving. We each like the other's car but neither want to switch to the other.

So, all this really identifies is that there are differences, but they don't need to be objectional or life-altering. A properly tuned carb can go the distance and will run with environment and elevation changes. I managed 700 feet in Michigan to 14,000 in Colorado (Mt. Evans) with a simple jet change at about 8,000 feet. From 8,000 and down it wasn't worth the change during a vacation.

Hopefully we all can build according to our own desires and expectations. There's really no right or wrong - within reason, and our own plans should be the determining factors.

Best to all for the New Year. I hope your builds progress faster than mine.

Jim

[Avalanche325]

There are 347s and there are 347s. Mine is a little north of 500hp with a carb. The heads make a HUGE difference on a SBF. I also have a pretty aggressive cam. A bit snotty when cold, but that's part of the fun for me.

Remember....You don't have to push the pedal down all the way. But, after you get used to it, you realize that you could always use more. Especially on the track.

[Mike.Bray]

A properly tuned carb can go the distance and will run with environment and elevation changes. I managed 700 feet in Michigan to 14,000 in Colorado (Mt. Evans) with a simple jet change at about 8,000 feet.

If you had to change a jet it really wasn't dealing with the elevation change was it?

Getting a carb "properly tuned" today is getting more and more difficult. And with today's very non-carb friendly fuels keeping it there is even more of a challenge. Not for me, I want to turn the key and go.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/fbimg1718707686265.jpg

[Avalanche325]

Ah yes. Remember the old days when all of the cars were lined up for miles on the side of the mountain road when re-jetting their carbs? I certainly don't.
I have yet to see a carb damaged by modern fuel, except in click-bait articles.

I will agree that not many people know how to tune carbs these days. It is pretty easy to learn to tune it yourself.

[Mike.Bray]

No one said carbs get damaged from today's fuels, they just accumulate a residue from the ethanol that degrades performance. It's why they sell this stuff (https://trufuel50.com/4-cycle-mix/) for lawn mowers and weed eaters. EFI systems don't have this issue due to the high pressures they operate at.

[TBull]

There are 347s and there are 347s. Mine is a little north of 500hp with a carb. The heads make a HUGE difference on a SBF. I also have a pretty aggressive cam. A bit snotty when cold, but that's part of the fun for me.

Remember....You don't have to push the pedal down all the way. But, after you get used to it, you realize that you could always use more. Especially on the track.

I like the way you think. If I just had a little more! :rolleyes:

[mrglaeser]

No one said carbs get damaged from today's fuels, they just accumulate a residue from the ethanol that degrades performance. It's why they sell this stuff (https://trufuel50.com/4-cycle-mix/) for lawn mowers and weed eaters. EFI systems don't have this issue due to the high pressures they operate at.

Luckily in MN there are a lot of gas stations that sell ethanol free fuels. I'm told they would clog anything with a catalytic converter but classic cars, snowmobiles, ATVs, Side by Sides, and most boats it works great in. Surprised this isn't available elsewhere. It's at about 1/4-1/3 of the gas stations once you get out to the edge of the suburbs. The other bonus is it's normally also 93 oct.

The Minnesota Street Rod Association publishes a list of stations with Non-Oxy gas. https://msra.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Non-Oxy-Directory-July-2023.pdf

There is also a website pure-gas.org that might help you locate some in other states.

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

If you had to change a jet it really wasn't dealing with the elevation change was it?

Getting a carb "properly tuned" today is getting more and more difficult. And with today's very non-carb friendly fuels keeping it there is even more of a challenge. Not for me, I want to turn the key and go.

......

I don't see it that ways at all. Whether a carb be a Rochester, Holley, Carter AFB they all have only 2 adjustment screws. and these screws mainly deal with the idle. Sometimes people expect EFI type from a carb.

I wonder how many people under 30 know you need to "Set the choke" on a cold engine startup (I'm talking auto choke)?

I don't blame those that don't know how a carb works for having a preference for EFI.

If all "No Carb" folks had to truely tune (Program) a EFI from scratch they might have a whole new outlook on EFI Vs Carb.

[gbranham]

Imagine if you could take that carb out of the box, bolt it on, tell it a few things about your engine, and it would just work, and would actually work better over time, since it knows everything about how your engine is running. All without turning screws.

[BornWestUSA]

Luckily in MN there are a lot of gas stations that sell ethanol free fuels. I'm told they would clog anything with a catalytic converter but classic cars, snowmobiles, ATVs, Side by Sides, and most boats it works great in. Surprised this isn't available elsewhere. It's at about 1/4-1/3 of the gas stations once you get out to the edge of the suburbs. The other bonus is it's normally also 93 oct.

The Minnesota Street Rod Association publishes a list of stations with Non-Oxy gas. https://msra.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Non-Oxy-Directory-July-2023.pdf

There is also a website pure-gas.org that might help you locate some in other states.

Ethanol free fuel won't harm catalytic converters, lead will. Lead has been gone for 30 years from auto fuel.

Ethanol is the devil. Causes fuel system damage, water collection, mpg loss.

California has zero ethanol free fuel available. Sad.

[Mike.Bray]

don't blame those that don't know how a carb works for having a preference for EFI.

If all "No Carb" folks had to truely tune (Program) a EFI from scratch they might have a whole new outlook on EFI Vs Carb.

I know exactly how a carb works and how to "truly tune" one having worked on them since the 70's. Holley, Rochester, Carter, Weber, Delorto, and a few others. And it's this knowledge and experience that pushed me into EFI in the 90's. My early EFI systems were on stack systems with low band O2 sensors and running in Alpha-N mode as the MAP sensors of the day struggled with the vacuum signal from IR intakes. All programmed from scratch. Today's systems like the Sportsman and Terminator are a breeze to set up with their wide range O2 sensors, learning modes, and sophisticated software. My Factory Five has a Sportsman. I entered the base information like injector size and engine details and it not only cranked right up but was easily 90% there. And not once did I have a float stick or get gas on my hands. From what I've seen the Pro-Flo is even easier.

Give me numbers and data that makes sense, not screws, jets, metering rods, and power valves.

[gbranham]

If all "No Carb" folks had to truely tune (Program) a EFI from scratch they might have a whole new outlook on EFI Vs Carb.

This is an irrelevant statement, because you don't have to tune EFI 'from scratch' anymore. You are comparing carburetors to the EFI systems of the 90s. Maybe your view of EFI systems is severely outdated, because most of them come with a base tune that gets the car running, and the better systems actually learn over time and improve performance. Try making your carbed car run better without ever touching the carb. With today's sophisticated EFI systems, that are incredibly easy to hook up, and even look similar to carbs, it's beyond me why anyone would want to fiddle with a carburetor. I'll reframe your statement...If 'No EFI' folks could see how easy it is to install and run an EFI system, they might have a whole different outlook on carburetors.

To each their own, though. I get the nostalgia of carbs. For me, I grew tired of my hands smelling like gas after working with carbs.

Greg

[rich grsc]

I don't see it that ways at all. Whether a carb be a Rochester, Holley, Carter AFB they all have only 2 adjustment screws. and these screws mainly deal with the idle. Sometimes people expect EFI type from a carb.

I wonder how many people under 30 know you need to "Set the choke" on a cold engine startup (I'm talking auto choke)?

I don't blame those that don't know how a carb works for having a preference for EFI.

If all "No Carb" folks had to truely tune (Program) a EFI from scratch they might have a whole new outlook on EFI Vs Carb.

If you think carb's only have one adjustment, then you maybe don't understand them either? Like Mike says you have screws, jets, metering rods, and power valves, all need to be correct.

[Smiley]

I decided to go EFI because MOST of the guys that truly KNOW how to tune carbs are retired or have assumed room temperature. And I do not know how to tune them and I don’t have a flow bench.

[Mike.Bray]

I decided to go EFI because MOST of the guys that truly KNOW how to tune carbs are retired or have assumed room temperature. And I do not know how to tune them and I don’t have a flow bench.

Carburetors aren't actually that hard to tune, this is how we used to do it.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/34559423959684575766142651227595185626544093na.jpg

[rich grsc]

Don't worry Mike, Steve joined the GCC, and we are here to help, (spend his money). ;):rolleyes:

[Mike.Bray]

Even if I could find my dwell meter I seriously doubt I can remember how to use it.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/4544453521221311986282930023825412307073413584n.jp g

[Smiley]

Don't worry Mike, Steve joined the GCC, and we are here to help, (spend his money). ;):rolleyes:
Hahaha, that’s cute, I’m phoning this in from Hawaii and you think my wife needs help spending my money. :cool:

[Jeff Kleiner]

Even if I could find my dwell meter I seriously doubt I can remember how to use it.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/4544453521221311986282930023825412307073413584n.jp g

There ya' go Mike! Dual points aren't for pikers ;) Yes, I've still got my dwell meter around here somewhere, probably right next to that long flexible GM points adjusting tool :D

And if you're gonna' throw that one out there I guess I might as well post this again and really get some guys worked up into a lather :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208767&d=1722274213

Cheers,
Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208767&d=1722274213

Definitely one of my favorites!

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/fbimg1735907071933.jpg

[J R Jones]

Irony here, pride of building a period replica car, albeit with kit parts and instruction, but fear and anxiety over period fuel systems.
BTW points can be checked with a dwell meter, but Ford dual point gap is adjusted by feeler gauge and screw driver. Actually a match book cover thickness will do.
If you feel that is a challenge, try a Studebaker straight eight. Front four on one set of points, rear four on the other set. hint: reference the crankshaft timing
Ever see a distributor rotor made out of a paper clip and electrical tape?
jim

[Mike.Bray]

Irony here, pride of building a period replica car, albeit with kit parts and instruction, but fear and anxiety over period fuel systems.
BTW points can be checked with a dwell meter, but Ford dual point gap is adjusted by feeler gauge and screw driver. Actually a match book cover thickness will do.
If you feel that is a challenge, try a Studebaker straight eight. Front four on one set of points, rear four on the other set. hint: reference the crankshaft timing
Ever see a distributor rotor made out of a paper clip and electrical tape?
jim

I run a locked out dual sync distributor, here's how I set timing. Just pick a number.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/sparktable.jpg

[Rebostar]

Irony here, pride of building a period replica car, albeit with kit parts and instruction, but fear and anxiety over period fuel systems.
BTW points can be checked with a dwell meter, but Ford dual point gap is adjusted by feeler gauge and screw driver. Actually a match book cover thickness will do.
If you feel that is a challenge, try a Studebaker straight eight. Front four on one set of points, rear four on the other set. hint: reference the crankshaft timing
Ever see a distributor rotor made out of a paper clip and electrical tape?
jim

TRUE STORY:
In the 70's I had an Opel Kadet with four arrow holes in the drivers door. Drove it from Denver to Boston. 20 miles out of Denver car quit! Quick check, no spark, off with the cap, points grounded to body of the distributor, that damn stripped out rear screw again! Reach in my pocket, grabbed a book of matches, tore off the cover, folded over four times, wedged it between the point spring and distributor. Hello Boston! As far as I know that matchbook cover is still there!

Moral of the story: Knowing what is supposed to make the spark happen! Extra credit if you have filed points down with a fingernail clipper!

Happy Trails

[rich grsc]

More than once

[fauxbra5.0]

TRUE STORY:
In the 70's I had an Opel Kadet with four arrow holes in the drivers door. Drove it from Denver to Boston. 20 miles out of Denver car quit! Quick check, no spark, off with the cap, points grounded to body of the distributor, that damn stripped out rear screw again! Reach in my pocket, grabbed a book of matches, tore off the cover, folded over four times, wedged it between the point spring and distributor. Hello Boston! As far as I know that matchbook cover is still there!

Moral of the story: Knowing what is supposed to make the spark happen! Extra credit if you have filed points down with a fingernail clipper!

Happy Trails

In middle school (back in the early 90s), I got in trouble at school because a little swiss army knife fell out of my pocket at lunch. I used to ride old 4 wheelers through the woods behind my house, and kept that little knife with me to do just that if I ever got stuck out in the woods. Turns out, I forgot it in my pants and my mom washed them...whoops!

[J R Jones]

Late in the seventies we sold off our AS & BP club racers to seek sponsorship from Toyota for a Daytona 24hr effort. Feedback was promising we bought a Celica to start development. The deal fell through in the 11th hour. It was June and what simple alternative could we salvage for experience and entertainment? We decided on SCCA Showroon Stock. A roll bar and safety equipment was haistily installed. First race was dismal, the SSB car was outclassed by all the As, Bs, and most of the Cs. Development touched everything but the most bold strep was 13:1 compression pistons.
Brainerd MN has a one mile straight for prolonged WOT and AUG heat. We accomplished Saturday pole at the cost of #1 piston. The Toyota intake manifold ran a coolant passage siamesied to #1 intake runner which made #1 lean. The engine was disassembled but we had no spare piston. We found the local Toyota dealer parts manager and he opened to sell us a stock piston.
Unfortunately the 13:1 piston wrist pin was too short. Searching a solution, the Craftsman 1/2 drill handle (pipe nipple) was close. Without as much as a vice we cut a spacer/shim and faced it with emery paper and window glass. The engine went back together with time for a couple hours sleep. The 22R engine was down on power but produced a podium finish.
jim
BTW despite the late season start we were invited to the National Championship Run-offs at Road Atlanta. Toyota was impressed but their Marketing Department was still bitter about Carrol Shelby's failed 2000GT racing program @ $3M.

[Dave Tabor]

Carbureted Ford 302:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5K3KIm_PWg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYCsQ3nZ_qw&t=90s

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
23,000+ miles

[Mike.Bray]

When I was 16 my father gave me a 60 model Chevy truck, built in the same as me. Had a straight 6 and three on the tree. It ran okay but about 40% of the time when coming off of the highway I'd push in the clutch and it would die from the float sticking. If I didn't catch it in time I'd have to get out and tap on the carb with a wrench to unstick the float and get it started again. I guess we could call this the beginning of my despise of carburetors.

In all of the EFI cars I've owned, probably 35-40, I've not once had a float stick like my old truck. And my weedeater still won't start.

[Rebostar]

When I was 16 my father gave me a 60 model Chevy truck, built in the same as me. Had a straight 6 and three on the tree. It ran okay but about 40% of the time when coming off of the highway I'd push in the clutch and it would die from the float sticking. If I didn't catch it in time I'd have to get out and tap on the carb with a wrench to unstick the float and get it started again. I guess we could call this the beginning of my despise of carburetors.

In all of the EFI cars I've owned, probably 35-40, I've not once had a float stick like my old truck. And my weedeater still won't start.

Yet another trus story:
In the South Pacific on an MSC Navy owned supply/ammo ship we had one of our helicopers on the flight deck ready to start VERTREP ops (vertical replenishment). We also had one aircraft orbiting overhead along with two H-60 Navy helicopters waiting for the"show" to start. We also had the Captian of our ship and an Admiral from the aircraft carrier we were supposed to be supplying. Needless to say we were the center of a lot of attention. The Pilot goes through is check list, goes to start engine #2 and nothing happened. Just silence and a teriffied look from the pilot. I got on the radio and told him to stand down and shut everything off. Now the ships captain is asking whats going on? I climed up on the helicoper with a hammer, opened the engine cowl walked forward with my trusty hammer in hand and tapped the starter gernerator twice. Then asked the pilot to hit the start switch. A lovely whining noise appeared and I climed down off the engine deck, closed the cowl, camly walked to the front of the helicopter and gave the pilot the signal to start Engine #2 as if nothing had happened. The pilot came over the radio and asked what I did with the hammer that made the engine start. I told him I punished the bad starter! Mostly I just tapped out the loose carbon from the brush area of the starter. The Captain and Admiral were dualy impressed.

Happy trails

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