Header to body Alignment MkIV

[Jpruss221]

I have a Dart 427W with the FFR headers and have run into an alignment issue on the passenger side. The install on the Driver side required me to cut away about 3/8" of the body. The header at the ball joint is very close to being straight as I would expect. The passenger side on the other hand is considerably off and appears I may need to cut as much as 3" of the body to fit. I verified the motor mounts (Energy) are adjusted so Driver side is high as possible and passenger side is low. This would allow for the least amount of cutting to the body. I'm questioning if the passenger header is correct? If it is correct then, is cutting the body 2.5 - 3" normal? If I did have to cut this much from one side I would need to do the same on the other side to maintain similarity. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks Guys!

[gbranham]

Your passenger side motor mount seems to be adjusted as high as it can go, not as low as it can go. The guide pin is at the top of it's slot.

[Jpruss221]

It was a struggle getting the motor into place with the guide pins, more so a problem on the drivers side which is at the top of the pin guide. I will try using a ratchet strap to pull it down further. Thanks for the observation.
I see you purchased a MkIV last year, have you got to body installation? If so, any problems?

[gbranham]

It was a struggle getting the motor into place with the guide pins, more so a problem on the drivers side which is at the top of the pin guide. I will try using a ratchet strap to pull it down further. Thanks for the observation.
I see you purchased a MkIV last year, have you got to body installation? If so, any problems?

I do have a MkIV and 427, but I haven't fitted the body yet. I dropped my engine in a few weeks ago, and leveled it up before I tightened down the mounts. Is your engine level, as measured across your intake manifold? Im betting your passenger side is high. After a dozen years of MKIV production, FFR has likely solved any major header to body misalignment issues...gotta be an adjustment in your mounts. I'm not pro, though, so I'm sure the experts will chime in

[Norm B]

To get the engine as low as possible, support it then loosen all the mount bolts on the block and frame. Wiggle the engine as you slowly lower it to the desired position, then tighten everything up.

HTH

Norm

[ggunter]

I had the same issue when going form a 302 based engine to the 351 based engine. I had to pie cut the bell on the header side, not all the way through but enough to bend it down to meet the side pipe and then tig it. I had to do it both sides. FFR sells the headers for a 351 engine which I would assume they are different because of the block height difference. But they we not even close to fitting without cutting high into the body and then the side pipes would be going uphill towards the front. I still had to cut the body a bit to make it all come together. Sucks to do when its already painted. I had some paint left over so brushing on at the cut area edge of the body with the various coats and colors ended up being imperceptible. Pie cutting the header bell was the only way I could remedy the issue. Good luck.

[ggunter]

Solid motor mounts are another way to go as they drop the engine by about 3/4" I believe.

[Jpruss221]

Thanks all for your inputs. I did verify the engine is level within 1/8". I will loosen all mounting bolts before I pull the motor down. Spoke to Ken Pike (Painter) and he explained this has been an issue on several cars he's painted. He explained using the shims and wedges from Breeze. I have read about the shims in several posts but thought this was more for minor alignment issues. Ken seemed to think this would be the solution. I'm taking the car for paint Thursday so will get his expertise on the situation. I'll provide an update once i have resolution.

[BrewCityCobra]

I have a Dart 427W with the FFR headers and have run into an alignment issue on the passenger side. The install on the Driver side required me to cut away about 3/8" of the body. The header at the ball joint is very close to being straight as I would expect. The passenger side on the other hand is considerably off and appears I may need to cut as much as 3" of the body to fit. I verified the motor mounts (Energy) are adjusted so Driver side is high as possible and passenger side is low. This would allow for the least amount of cutting to the body. I'm questioning if the passenger header is correct? If it is correct then, is cutting the body 2.5 - 3" normal? If I did have to cut this much from one side I would need to do the same on the other side to maintain similarity. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks Guys!

So I ran into a very similar problem with my MKIV with a 351W based-block. I wrote about my issue a bit in my build thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38979-The-Brew-City-Cobra-427W-IRS-Body-On-Headlights-Installed&p=532236&viewfull=1#post532236

In the end I found that using Gordon Levy's solid motor mounts were the key. From what I've heard, the problem is that the engine mounts of the MKIV are optimized for the Coyote engine so it leaves us SBF guys with a bit of a "less than ideal" situation (e.g., the mounts are too tight). By switching to the solid mounts there is a lot more flexibility in positioning the engine along a "roll" axis which helps for getting the header outlets in a lot better position.

I still had to use some wedges from Breeze to get the perfect fit, but in the end the motor mounts are what got me over the hump.

207079

207080

As a side note, make sure that if you do use the drop mounts to check your oil pan - mine ended up too low and will need to be replaced before I finish the car.

[Norm B]

On my old BBK 4 into 4 headers that I got with my kit in 2012 one side was way too high even with the engine as low as possible.
To solve the problem, I put the header on with the bolts loose and let the header hang lower. I attached the side pipe and slowly tightened the header until the pipe was at the correct level. I measured the opening left between the top header flange and the head with feeler gauges. Took the header to a machine shop and had them mill that measurement off the bottom of the flange tapered to nothing at the top. Used Ultra Copper without a gasket to seal the header during installation.
Might be a solution if nothing else works.

Norm

[MaxVmo]

Ken is currently working on my MKIV and I am at that exact stage where he advised me to order the particular shims and wedges. Just got them from Breeze and will bring them up for the final fitting. I took a little shop tour and was impressed. Ken is a class act.

[CraigS]

While I haven't worked w/ the new headers I have helped out a couple of FFR s w/ the 4 into 4 headers. One thing that surprised me was how much of a change pipe to body was made by sticking some standard thickness washers between engine mount and block on one side only. A couple of other thoughts.
1- There is no need for the engine to be level. Think like this; moving the engine out of level so you have a 1" difference in pipe height at the body (5ft apart?) would be nearly unmeasurable comparing left carb main jet to right jet 1.5 to 2" apart. Also since the out of level would pivot at the center of the engine it isn't going to affect oil pickup tube to oil pan.
2- You can only see one side of the car at a time so having the cutouts maybe 1" different in height will never be noticed.